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 Your Home Theater Setup.. v2, Let's share..

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SSJBen
post Dec 5 2016, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 2 2016, 06:57 PM)
Mmm... I will wait for Oppo UDP-205D which I believe will come soon after UDP-203.

UDP-203... next UDP-203D... next UDP-205 and then UDP-205D ?

For those who wants Darbee incorporated into the Oppo, then don't pull the trigger so fast. I believe Oppo will soon add in Darbee into their Oppo 4K Players.

http://www.darbeevision.com/4k-samples/

Normally Oppo doesn't increase the prices but maybe it will increase for their 4K Players. With our RM value drowning in the ocean, it will be more expensive for us and won't be easy for many just to buy UDP-203 !! Malaysia Boleh... "turun lagi teruk"
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Will be a while before there will be a Darbee 4k implementation with Oppo.



QUOTE(hushymushy @ Dec 2 2016, 06:59 PM)
actually just a generic question ah.....dont marah me ok

for Darbee setting...do you all use alot?

for me...after the projector calibration...the Darbee is used about 5%....

what about u guys?
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I'm not on a projector, but on an OLED. Darbee can actually make things look worse on it, even at a very low %. All depends on the source really. But it's inconsistent enough that I just couldn't be arsed about turning it on and off every time.

This is more so with 4k sources. Since the 4k Darbee algorithm has not yet been finalized, I don't expect this to change too soon.
SSJBen
post Dec 5 2016, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 5 2016, 05:07 PM)
For people who wants it, then yes, it will take a longer time to wait for Darbee 4K.

Actually, Darbee is not my priority and not important for me. What I would want is a jailbreak that works without problems. I believe when UDP-205D is released, any newer jailbreaks will not work for UDP-205 anymore and which is why I would prefer the UDP-205D.

As it is now, even for BDP-105D, the latest JB was for the November 2015 official firmware. No newer JB eventhough another new official firmware was released in August 2016 and another beta one in November 2016. Rumours says that newer JBs for 103D and 105D will no longer be released as the direction moves to the new UDP units.

Anyway, at the present time, all such talk on JB will only be an incomplete one because I believe that AACS 2.0 hasn't been broken yet. Hehehe... when I purchased any UHD blurays in the future, I can't even archive them as ISOs to my harddisk ! In that sense, JB to break such protection may never come so I guess its just my fantasy and no longer relevant for UHD blurays! Gosh... just think about huge disk space used for the UHD bluray that averages around 180GB per movie!
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Well unfortunately, the future of digital media is a compressed digital medium - streaming. The age of compression for everything is very near.

Sad reality, but it's the truth.
It will come to a point where P2P groups will just give up and go for an alternative.
SSJBen
post Dec 5 2016, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 5 2016, 07:09 PM)
I'm streaming all movies from NAS. Is the JB affecting network streaming and USB?
Any user here with non-JB version of Oppo BDP-103D can share the experience with network streaming or USB playback?
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Not that I'm aware of, no. I'm streaming off several NAS, no issues on my end. There's the occasional freeze when trying to load up a movie, but a quick reset usually fixes it.

I just hope the 203/205 players will be much faster in operation though.
SSJBen
post Dec 6 2016, 08:09 PM

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QUOTE(stilo10 @ Dec 6 2016, 07:16 PM)
Tq Master James for your detail explanantion but my question was actually on comparing the difference between normal original BD (not 4K) and those dwnldd file like ISO & etc. around 50gb for sq & pq. Sorry if my question was unclear.
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An .iso is an image of the raw blu-ray disc. No difference except one is a soft copy the other is a hard copy.
However, there exists several different releases of any single movie and there can be differences in them as they are mastered differently in the studio.

Comparisons here - http://www.caps-a-holic.com/index.php


A remux file is basically the entire .iso image put into a container (like mkv). But generally remux do not have any of the "extras" to save a few GB worth of space. Remux IS equal to an .iso/blu-ray physical disc in picture quality and sound quality.


Then we have all the million and 1 infamous re-encodes, rips, and blah blah blah. There exists many groups which really put a lot of time and effort into getting their encodes right. Groups like FGT, PTP, SCENE for example do release great rips.
Unless you are super anal about even wanting to complain about a hair strand looking different, these groups usually release their rips with about 90-95% of the PQ from a .iso/physical disc. Bonus of course they pack them with lossless audio tracks, which again is entirely the same with the one on a raw file.

Of course... there exists idiots like yify or whatever, those butchers quality more than youtube does.
SSJBen
post Dec 6 2016, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 6 2016, 06:11 PM)
Stilo10 was talking about (1) Dolby Atmos in 4K 3D Bluray and (2) DTS-HD MA in 3D Bluray. When anyone talk about 4K bluray, we don't need to ask about PQ because all of us obviously know that 4K with 1080p X 4 resolution and HDR wins! Since the PQ answer is already known by everyone, its now about the SQ between 4K bluray and regular Bluray.
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Regarding 4k BD vs 1080p BD, picture quality wise... it really depends on how the movie is shot. Right now, the majority of 4k movies on BD were shot with 2k cameras, digitally.

Watching Mad Max Fury Road in 4k is actually a little worse than watching in 1080p, simply because CGI effects like the flames and storms look very cartoonish as it is artificially remastered into 4k from its 1080p source. Just a simple example.

But then we have movies like X-men Apocalypse which is MIND_BLOWING in 4k + HDR itself. Completely rapes the 1080p version in PQ twice over.
SSJBen
post Dec 7 2016, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 6 2016, 10:23 PM)
Its not a matter of different production standards or post-production remastering used per se. If I am not mistaken, we have discussed something similar to this quite some time ago. Well, doesn't matter.

Yes, I do agree with you regarding the CGI remastering issue but this should not detract from the great potential and improvements that 4K can bring to our visual entertainment. Just like what happened when they filmed in 2D and then used digital post-processing to create 3D. Having an actual 3D camera to film the movie will always be much better than a digitally generated 3D.

4K blurays and 4K TV broadcasts holds much promise and is already a reality albeit its an agonising slow wait in its implementation. 4K TV channels in Malaysia? I may not live long enough to see it! With greater resolution comes with more artifacts appearing that were otherwise not noticeable in lower resolutions. When CGI is done in actual 4K, not remastered, then quality will surely improve. The 4K hardware and tools are already here but what i believe happened to those 4K remastered movies is merely due to reducing production costs, nothing more and not because 4K don't deliver. Yes, I do know that you already knew that 4K does deliver as you have stated so clearly for X-Men Apocalypse 4K.

This is what I should have said in my reply about 4K blurays winning over 1080p blurays...
When full 4K production standards is used in producing the 4K bluray, the PQ will definitely be astounding! Much much better PQ than 1080p bluray. 4K does deliver... if only they do it properly and without any remastering or enhancement.

When James Cameron used actual 3D cameras to film Avatar, the 3D quality is much much better than those movies with Digitally Remastered 3D. Remember the time when HD TV broadcasts were first launched early in the Millenium when many of the materials were actually remastered from SD. When more and more actual HD materials were produced, HD TV took off in a huge way. However, its also undeniable that many HD TV channels today still churn out bad quality HD too. In the same respect, when more and more materials are produced in actual 4K covering all aspects of production (CGI included), then overall 4K bluray PQ will surely beat the 1080p blurays.

You are right that not all 4K blurays are better than 1080p blurays. I am merely talking about the general and overall 4K bluray PQ that are much much better than 1080p blurays. I believe that you do agree here. Its not about quantifying 4K blurays to any particular half-baked 4K productions (including 4K upscaling and remastering). The situation will improve but there will still be rogue productions that put a shame to 4K. As with everything else, the same applies when we want to compare DTS-HD Master Audio Vs DTS so... I am also right to say... it depends because even some bluray DTS sound better than DTS-HD MA. But then again... DTS-HD MA does win over DTS in "general" (subject to the quality of production used).

I know its a bit early... Wishing You and your family AND EVERYONE here A Happy And Joyous New Year as 2016 soon draws to a close and the new 2017 steps in. Also, Merry Christmas to all the Christians.
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Oh no, don't be mistaken. I'm a big believer of 4k, I want 4k to be mainstream already. South Korea and Japan will be the first countries to broadcast 4k TV content as a mainstream next year, so exciting times ahead for those countries.

An early Happy new year to you too, joyous fellow. Here's hoping 2017 isn't as shit of a year as 2016, currency wise.
SSJBen
post Dec 7 2016, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 7 2016, 07:05 PM)
Hehehe... you and I and everyone else who have ever seen the quality of 4K will undeniably be mesmerised and got "hooked like a fish to a bait". Both of us belong to same 4K camp.

As far as 4K going mainstream... it will definitely be a fallacy to believe that we can even see the shadow of 4K TV broadcast in Bolehland in the near future. SD analogue TV broadcasts in Bolehland still continue to exist including Ass-teruk SD channels. Yea, yeah... terrestrial Digital TV broadcasts in HD are due to be officially launched in 2017, mmm... or so they say! Nationwide coverage? *cough* *cough*. As for Bolehland 4K TV broadcast... we can continue to dream until Wawasan 2020 and further. At least in the near future, the only way for us in Bolehland to fast forward in obtaining our enjoyment of 4K materials is through 4K Blurays.

My, oh my.... and what about 8K TVs? Are they for real? Not that I don't like it but don't do the celebratory jump too soon... let's take it one step at a time... Digital HD TV in Bolehland first... then abolishing SD channels... and 3D TV broadcast (Sky 3D channel?)... and the list goes on.

I don't expect 2017 to be any better, in fact... will only get worse. Around June 2016, I paid for my AV Pre-Amp and Power in USD for a total of around USD 16000 at the rate of RM 4.02 to USD 1. With today's rate of around RM 4.42, I would have paid an additional of RM 6400 because of the devalued difference of RM 0.40 ! And I thought then, that I was hit hard with the unhealthy currency situation. Now... in restrospect, I actually "saved" around RM 6K... is it a good thing or a bad thing? You tell me! The irony of it is that... IF we have the $$ to buy now, then buy now as I do expect that we can "save" by paying less at RM 4.42 and not wait until it reaches RM 5.10 !!! That... is a gloomy 2017 for us in Bolehland.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2016/01...-2016/78087454/
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Probably TN50 by the time we get 4k as mainstream.... whistling.gif

Same here, dodged a bullet by getting my Ascend Sierra Towers and Center when it was still 4.05. Even though still on a pricey side but yeah... it was close to be losing an extra 5k+ just because of you-know-who.


SSJBen
post Dec 9 2016, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(bad2928 @ Dec 9 2016, 01:26 PM)
normally i'm just pick the biggest file in stream folder(bdmv).thats actually size for the whole movie.the rest of 10-15gb is just an extra.
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My preferred method too. I just extract the movie file from the stream folder, save it under a folder name for the movie and double click to play.

All this nonsense about loading the image onto a virtual drive, skipping through pointless piracy warnings, slow cumbersome menus.. Just a gigantic waste of pointless time. My God, makes me wonder sometimes why people still want to bother using physical discs to watch movies.
SSJBen
post Dec 9 2016, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 9 2016, 04:49 PM)
Its fine to use this method of picking just 1 file to play. However, there are many times when the entire move is broken up to numerous smaller files AND these files may not be numbered in the same order such as 00021.m2ts plays the first chapter and then 00016.m2ts plays the second chapter. This usually happens for most Lionsgate films WHEN they used "profuscation" (or is it proliferation) method to mess up the chapters with the wrong playlist being played by the bd media player so probably this is one way that they use to fight piracy. There is a downside to playing bluray folder/ISO with full menu too... sometimes ripping can go wrong and the wrong playlist are read.

Whenever the movie is broken into multiple files, the only way is to use computer to remux the bd movie using the correct playlist (xxxx.mpls). The playlist file contains intructions to play the the multiple files in the correct order/sequence. There are software that can auto choose the correct playlist BUT mistakes CAN happen when the wrong playlist are chosen... and the result is that you have to search manually (tough, tough) which playlist to use in remuxing to single MKV, M2TS, or MP4 file. can you imagine searching through (example) 50+ mpls files?

As an example... the bd movie Allegiant (distributed by Lionsgate) do have 148 MPLS files and when ripped to harddisk as full ISO or BDMV folder, the movie played in the WRONG ORDER!! Even remuxing to a single untouched MKV file do NOT help. What I did find out is that "somehow" the player chose the wrong 00484.mpls file to play the ripped bd when the correct one is 00897.mpls. So, even if you have the genuine bd and wants to rip this to your harddisk as an archive to play... chapter sequence problems CAN happen! Bear in mind that its the computer software that can choose the wrong playlist for ripping. But... without the software, you cannot join all the multiple files as a single file to play and you cannot just select play in numerical order because the numbering is messed up.

Ok... coming back to your method of picking 1 single to play. Yes, its a good way to do it without ALL the hassle and the stupid "waiting" for the menu, trailers, titles, etc. BUT.... problems WILL appear when there are multiple files. Also... this method means "convenience" BUT remuxing to single file, searching for correct mpls file to use, etc etc is NOT convenient loh.

Anyway, I do agree with your method in general but there are problems that need to be fixed loh.
I do agree with your method of playing just the single file. Read my answer to bad2928 above for the problems that do appear.

I absolutely do agree with you about ALL the nonsense that we have to endure to watch a bluray!

What I am going to say next is my opinion based on own reasoning. You wondered why people still use physical discs to play but I think you may have missed something here.

The shorter the transmission path of playing the movie to the AVR and TV the better. Its not because the best steps have not been taken to reduce interference. As an example, no matter what is done, a much longer path from ripped movie in NAS harddisk to USB cable to bd media player can introduce signal interference that can reduce the PQ and SQ. Directly playing the physical disc from the player to the AVR and TV IS the shortest path and can (in my opinion) help to reduce interference such as EMI and whatever noise. Yes, I will not dispute with you if you say that we will not have ears that are so perfect to notice any minute difference especially when properly shielded cables are used, good AC adapters used for the NAS harddisks, good power conditioner/filters used and so forth. Be it as it may, there are people like me that are "naive" to believe a better SQ/PQ from playing physical discs. Whenever I listened to the physical discs, it somehow sounded more dynamic, better details, etc for my Concert blurays. Two of my friends who did not believe it was a believer after they listened to the comparisons. Of course the "minute difference" will be more apparent when normal (not LPS high quality) AC adapter used for the external harddisk, SATA harddisk used (with internal rotating discs) instead of SSD ones, poorly shielded USB cables used, etc etc. I believe (may be technically wrong) that using laser light to read can reduce interference that is otherwise caused by spinning magnetic discs or electrically-charged solid-state cells. Granted, I may NOT be totally right but the reason I am explaining this to you is to help you better understand the reason why.

Yes... "a gigantic waste of pointless time". You are not wrong since its just only once that we have to endure to take the time to "rip" each bluray from our personal collection. At least its still better than constantly enduring the "nonsense" every time the same bluray is played. Eventhough ripping is done once... some time IS also used. Yes, slowly done one by one immediately after each bluray purchase will not seem much time taken... however, if 100+ blurays are done together, its a headache. IF only everything is perfect... it will be a great hassle with much more time wasted in correcting chapter problems as I have stated earlier.

Just for the sake of argument... I don't know whether ripping my genuine blurays as a "copy" in my harddisk is illegal or not in Malaysia. Maybe legal as people says its a "fair copy" to protect the original from wear and tear. One to one duplicate as ISO or BDMV "may" be ok BUT altering to a MKV or MP4 is a big No No. I don't even dare to talk about any internet downloads which is easy and no hassle with a fast connection. Hehe, you already know why.

In retrospect, I don't dispute what you have said. I am merely clarifying to clear the air when you wondered why people chose physical discs. Generally you are right except for my difference of opinion on the "transmission path".

Talking about legal downloads.. yes, such as from Apple Store but the ugly DRM monster comes in too! And the quality from such movie downloads just cannot compare to the blurays. NetFlix now allows me to download for offline viewing but the quality is incomparable to blurays (with DTSMA and Dolby TrueHD). Even when I watch a Netflix 4K movie on my TV, the 4K quality cannot even beat the bluray PQ !
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While true there are movies that has different chapters, it's not an issue if I just use makeMKV to remux them into a single file. Doesn't take long for me either, but that's down to CPU hardware so one person's preference/experience will differ to another.

I believe we've discussed this before in regards to playing the source with as little paths as possible to eliminate any sort of interference. I studied programming and still is a part time programmer, so the knowledge I'm armed with does not allow me to believe that an "analog" interference will alter a digital piece of code UNLESS the hardware/device itself is faulty in the first place. The data being transported from one place to another is all done digitally, by 1 and 0s. If a 0 becomes a 1, then an artifact appears or the source just skips or has an error on a particular time domain.

So... yeah, for me the signal path does not matter. To make a comparison, a piece of digital product like say a game which has hundred of thousands of lines of more variable data and has no difference being played on a HDD/SSD vs a disc, a movie which has no variable code in its source data will not be able to sound different just because they're playing from a different device.

Of course, playing on a high-end BD player (like the Oppos) has its own benefits. Not saying it doesn't and I won't dispute that. Darbee post processing can be a bonus, as does the HDMI scaler on the Oppo is better than on most receivers/TVs as well. But similarly, playing it on a PC and you're given choices like madvr provided you have the hardware to take advantage of it. But disable all of these bs and it's impossible to tell a difference other than your mind being in a placebo effect.

Well again, to each their own. Not going to say you're wrong, because it's your system so of course you should enjoy it the way you want to. And if I were to visit your place, I wouldn't be rolling my eyes endlessly while you're skipping through the piracy warnings. tongue.gif


QUOTE(Kent3888 @ Dec 9 2016, 04:55 PM)
Which is a better center speaker? KEF Q600C,  Klipsch RP-250C or Sonus Faber Venere Center?
KEFQ600C
Klipsch RP-250C
Sonus Faber Venere Center
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By design alone, the KEF Q600c would have the least amount of 'lobing' issues due to its Uni-Q tweeter.

Sound quality wise is very much a preference, more so because I'm assuming you're going to mix one of these centers with a pair of different L/R channels?

I like the Sonus Faber Venere the best out of the 3 though.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Dec 9 2016, 05:58 PM
SSJBen
post Dec 9 2016, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(Kent3888 @ Dec 9 2016, 07:01 PM)
Sorry lobing means? I do prefer Sonus Faber for its design especially the versatile stand that can adjust the angle.
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To put it very simply, lobing refers to the issue where speakers of MTM design has an issue where woofers can cancel out one another causing dialog intelligibility to become an issue when the listener is sitting off axis (meaning not directly infront of the center speaker).

Not a big issue if you only have 1 MLP, but if you have a wide room and have many seats, you should choose a WTMW center speaker design or just buy a vertical bookshelf and use that as the center channel instead (of which then you would absolutely want to match it with your L/R speakers).

Angle adjustment is not a feature. You can just DIY yourself by buying a pack of door stoppers (if speaker feets are not an option) and get the exact angle you want for any kind of speaker.
SSJBen
post Dec 11 2016, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 11 2016, 11:23 AM)
Thanks. Current setup is 5.1 where the the surround is hanging on the living hall side wall 8 fts from the ground. If add top speaker will it compromised the Atmos/DTS-sound since all the speaker (surround and Atmos/DTS speaker) are same level?
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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 11 2016, 05:19 PM)
Same level of height, means surround and Atmos speaker 8 ft from the ground. I saw the atmos setup where the atmos speaker on top and the surround is on the floor which is at ear level.
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Are you talking about Dolby Atmos up-firing speaker modules? If yes, then understand that they don't work very well.


The correct way to implement height speakers is to have them as close to the ceiling as possible if in-ceiling speakers isn't an option for you. So of course, the height speakers MUST be placed higher than your surround speakers.
SSJBen
post Dec 11 2016, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 11 2016, 07:15 PM)
No problem on the height, the problem is I have constrain to put my surround speaker down to the ear level which is below the atmos speaker  sweat.gif
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Wait I don't understand... putting the surround speakers to ear-level is EXACTLY what Dolby recommends everyone to do in their setups. Not saying it's the best, but that's the correct guideline. So what's the problem?

What really matters most is that the height speakers MUST always be higher than your bed layer speakers by at least 6 ft., generally speaking. Of course different rooms, different measurements.


*EDIT*

user posted image

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Dec 11 2016, 07:29 PM
SSJBen
post Dec 11 2016, 07:35 PM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 11 2016, 07:30 PM)
In this case I might consider to move the surround to the back so that it can lower to the ear level smile.gif
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Where are you mounting your height speakers? On top of your current L/R surround but near the ceiling? It's difficult to give a recommendation if you don't list down your room dimensions.
SSJBen
post Dec 11 2016, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 11 2016, 07:44 PM)
This is my current 5.1 surround placement, red box
[attachmentid=8243242]
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Alright, your surrounds are too high and adding in the height speakers will have a negative effect on your overall system.

Is it impossible to place your surround speakers 5 ft. lower but remain at the same side positions? Rear placement for surround speakers can work, but you need to position them properly otherwise you may hear a gap between the front and sides during panning effects.
SSJBen
post Dec 12 2016, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(fx20 @ Dec 12 2016, 09:47 AM)
Lobing usually happened to TM. MTM Will not cause lobing , in fact , MTM eliminate those lobing.
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TM is a 2-way bookshelf no? So of course, if you position it horizontally then lobing will occur.

MTM does not eliminate lobing issues - http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-des...evaluation.html

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-des...asurements.html

See the difference between an MTM placed horizontally vs vertically?

Of course, not all MTM designs causes lobing issues. There are those like KEF Q series or ELAC Unifi series that places the tweeter ontop of the mid-range driver which minimizes the issue.


QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 12 2016, 12:30 PM)
I can only lower down 1 side of the surround only, the other side wall very far away. How to position the surround at the back?
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Is your surround monopole or dipole/bipole?

If monopole, just place it behind you, pointing directly forward. The distance between them, that you will have to measure out yourself because you didn't provide any info on your room dimensions or measurements.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Dec 12 2016, 01:28 PM
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post Dec 12 2016, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 12 2016, 06:37 PM)
Monopole, my HT area 20ft long and 13ft wide. If add only front height speaker to my current setup, is that advantage for DTS-X sound?
I'm planning for 5.1.4
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That's quite a decent sized room. Just a pair of front heights will not be enough for height effects IMO, even if you hang bookshelfs with 6.5" drivers. You'll want all 4 to really have the immersive height sound in a room that size.

So far it seems to me your room situation is a bit complicated. You can put your monopoles to the back surround location, about 1 feet above ear level. Then see if you can have 2 front height speakers in front and 2 in the rear. It's not going to be optimal, but I think that's a decent solution without going into some minor renovation.
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post Dec 16 2016, 12:33 AM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 15 2016, 08:25 PM)
Yeah, anyone visited CMY UDP-203 launching today?
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Didn't get the chance to as was busy with other business matters. Dang it. sad.gif
SSJBen
post Dec 20 2016, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(Dickong @ Dec 20 2016, 07:53 PM)
Hi sifu, is there anyway we can turn off the smart function of our smart tv.tq
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Depends on the TV. Most TVs from 2016 probably cannot, because the TV functions on the OS itself. It's no longer an overlay like say with TVs from 2013.

Usually disabling the smart TV features requires going into the debug/factory settings mode. How? I don't know, too many variable different ways.
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post Dec 21 2016, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 20 2016, 09:06 PM)
Is there any chance that you may know on which combination buttons to press (Remote + TV panel buttons) to access Samsung Series 8 Service Menu? I did access the service menu for my previous 40 inch Samsung LCD TV (not Smart TV).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0qFueHopw
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Apologies, not sure how to at all. From what I read/heard, Samsung changes their service menu sequence with every generation of TVs?
SSJBen
post Dec 26 2016, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Dec 26 2016, 04:00 PM)
But but but... I couldn't get a much bigger room  sad.gif

Even CMY John and a few others also tried poisoning me. When they saw my room... all shook their head  rclxub.gif
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Eh, there are people who play games/watch movies at 3 ft. distance with a 65" screen. What matters is how deep your pockets are, just go for it! tongue.gif

CES 2017 is just a couple weeks away too, more poison inkambing.


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