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 Your Home Theater Setup.. v2, Let's share..

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SSJBen
post Oct 30 2017, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(skeelee @ Oct 30 2017, 04:43 PM)
Thank for the info, it actually jogged my memory as to why I stopped looking for AV processors.

These AV processors cost much more than the equivalent receivers although without the amplification. Supposedly audiophile grade? Why can’t some manufacturers produce copy of their AVR without the amplification and sell it cheaper than the AVR?
*
I suppose cheaper prepros should exist, but it doesn't sell. The general consensus for many is: buy speakers + amp = sound. Complicate the matter and they would just say; "okay get a soundbar". There are other issues, how are you going to market a prepro to the majority? "Hey it decodes everything!" But then a smartass would say - "look the AVR decodes everything too and it also has an amp! It's plug and play!"

Market has changed. Gone are the days where the norm is - if a person wants to do a HT setup, it's a proper HT setup. They have a room, they have rows of seats, they have multi subs, they have speakers that goes above THX reference standards. These are the people who would get a pre-pro which allows them the flexibility to do what they want in their room.

The niche market is simply too small for a low cost prepro unfortunately. The parts in these high-end prepros don't even cost that much to be very frank, look them up specifically - the margin that the manufacturers get out of them is HIGH.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Oct 30 2017, 05:00 PM
SSJBen
post Oct 31 2017, 12:05 AM

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QUOTE(emy_xvidia @ Oct 30 2017, 10:27 PM)
my budget can definitely expand but still i am not money-is-not-an-issue-kinda guy. I think to simplify things up I'd go for the Denon all-in-one solution of the AVR-X6400H (without any external amp for the extra 2 channels), surveying online, that costs an average of RM10k-ish. Maybe another 10-15k for a proper 7.1.4 speakers set, cable and maybe one good BD Player, Oppo perhaps. Mixin-and-matching the speakers seem to be the most affordable solutions according to some of the reading materials i've found online. Anyway since Im new to this, I would usually take my time juggling my options especially on the speakers set, since I am currently in JB, and JB isn't as exciting for the HT scenes, so definitely have to take a visit to those HT shops in KL for the next few weeks when i have the time.
A very good info on the cable things. I was kinda shocked as well to see some of the speaker cable costs thousands whereas it's just a few metres in length. If it really costed that much, i'd give up on the idea of having a 'proper' HT setup.

Anyway would really appreciate recommendations of a 7.1.4 (or 5.1.4) Atmos setup (inclusive of the the brands so that I could find out reviews online, too many speaker brands that Ive never heard of but when reading on whathifi.com and others, they are actually award-winning speakers and costs a lot locally lol  laugh.gif ), assuming my budget for the speakers and other miscellaneous things like cables, mounting panel is around RM15k excluding of the AVR. Or is it better to just get the one-set system from a shop. They usually mix up the speakers and costs a bit lesser than buying individual brand to our preference?
*
Depends on the store. Some stores do have system packages, if you show that you are really serious in doing business with them - you can usually cut a decent deal.

I personally just pick up my stuff here and there, not all from one spot. Probably ended up costing me more in total, but since I spread out my purchases over time instead of buying everything at once, the innitial cost doesn't really matter. Doing it one by one allows a deeper understanding of this hobby, this isn't like buying a PC unfortunately. It's not a "buy RM15k PC with a Gsync monitor and forget about upgrading for the next 3 years". You may initially think that, "oh I've got a good system now", but the journey to audio nirvana can be a long one and in many cases if you are not careful; becomes a deep rabbit hole.

For RM15k excluding AVR and since you are going to stick to only a single amp, a high sensitivity speaker setup will be nice.

Klipsch RP260f Towers L/R - I believe you want towers right?
Klipsch RP250c or RP450c - Depends if you need more output of the bigger 450c or not, the RP250c may possibly have less defraction issues due to less drivers.
Klipsch RP250s Surrounds - Honestly you don't need to pay so much for surrounds, you could just source the second hand market for cheap bookshelfs to use as surrounds too.
Klipsch RP140sa or SVS Prime Elevation - They are both mountable, but the Prime Elevation is what I'm using currently and they're pretty nice.

For the sub, an SVS PC2000 or PB2000 should be what you are looking at. Buy one now, buy another next year. Multi subs are 9/10 times benefits more than whatever else you add to your system except changing out your main LCR.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Oct 31 2017, 12:21 AM
SSJBen
post Oct 31 2017, 02:52 AM

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QUOTE(emy_xvidia @ Oct 31 2017, 12:57 AM)
thanks for your recommendation. good knowledge on HT, easy for beginners like me to venture into HT.  thumbsup.gif

for the surround speakers, the speakers you recommend is a bipole/dipole-typed. my main room, on the left side is actually a window (with a thick curtain). How would it fare in regards to reflection/ sound effect compared to using a normal bookshelf direct-firing one? anyway to save up for a 7.1 most probably my budget would allow me to go for a normal bookshelf one (looking at Klipsch R-15M or RP-150M), so that I could put another pair as back speakers as the price of that RP250s is quite expensive.

anyway, anyone has buying experience with Style Laser Audio shop HERE? are they good, in terms of after-sale service as well? they seem to bring a lot of hi end speakers to our local market. surveying the price hopefully manage to get a good price.
*
The whole reason for bipole/dipole speakers are so that you cannot exactly tell the ambience effects in a movie. However I personally don't like them too much because they are always designed in fairly slim cabinets, sharing a single crossover and with inefficient small drivers. There are exceptions and I have heard of some convincing dipole/bipoles, if done right they are pretty decent.

I'm definitely more of a monopole guy because I also use my system for games. Having more distinct directionality for surround effects in games is I'm sure you know, pretty important. You don't absolutely have to match your surrounds to your main LCR, if your budget doesn't permit it then getting cheaper bookshelfs is a good alternative.

Style Laser is okay. They do sell snake oil, some of their staff are into the whole "mythical" beliefs in cables, power conditioners, and so on but their prices for most of their products are fairly competitive. Just know how to look pass the bullshit and they are okay to purchase from.

Finally, don't take my suggestions as the last word. Audio is very subjective, just like food. All I can do is set you on a beginning path and you have to go out and listen to some systems to get a rough idea of how they sound like (they will most definitely sound different in your own room at the end of the day however).

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Oct 31 2017, 02:55 AM
SSJBen
post Oct 31 2017, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(emy_xvidia @ Oct 31 2017, 06:04 PM)
Ya no worries. I still have time to juggle options on which stuff to get, trying to find the right spot between cost and of course performance.

Good discussion here indeed.
*
You can also take a look at the Q Acoustics 3000 series line btw. They're cheaper than the Klipsch and I really do like them.

They are not exceptional at any areas but they do good in about every kind of content you throw at them. The QA 3000 series speakers are nice well rounded speakers that don't break the bank, the money you save can go to the more important stuff i.e the sub.

The SVS Prime series is also a good alternative (except their Prime Satellites, which is mediocre at best), similar in price range to the Klipsch RP series.
SSJBen
post Nov 1 2017, 04:11 PM

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Timbre matching is cool, nice and ideal. But if budget does not permit that or sacrifice has to be made to the more important speakers in the system (the LCR and sub), then it's only pointless to put the money into surrounds and forget about the foundation.
SSJBen
post Nov 30 2017, 04:02 PM

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SVS launches 4000 series subwoofers - https://www.svsound.com/pages/4000-series

Basically a replacement for the 13-Ultra series, but also priced cheaper with some refinements to the driver.
SSJBen
post Dec 1 2017, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(saitong09 @ Dec 1 2017, 05:50 PM)
Better and cheaper as compare to 13-Ultra?
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Yes.

But by how much, will have to wait and find out. My best guess is to take the PB/SB12 NSD line vs the PB/SB/PC 2000 line as a loose comparison. That means it's safe to expect a 2-4db increase on average in overall output below 35hz.

Other than that though, I'm sure the 4000 series is basically SVS finally acknowledging the competition from PSA, Hsu and Rythmik.

Also it's highly probably they skipped the 3000 number so they could introduce it next year to replace the "Plus" line because that's getting very old in the tooth and has no place in the market currently price wise.
SSJBen
post Dec 7 2017, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(teop @ Dec 7 2017, 12:51 AM)
Hi guy. I have a RX-A3040 and currently running in 7.2.1 setup.

I'm want to add an external amp for my front to
- off load my front from the AVR
- experiment with bi-amping my front
- do a 7.4.1 setup
- second zone.

To do this I'll need at least a 4 channel amp. I'm considering the used market to keep the cost down.

My plan is to first run my front on the external amp. This will allow me to do 7.4.1 setup. I'll see if there is an overall improvement in system performance in 7.2.1 setup. After that I'll experiment with bi-amping. If there is improvement then I'll leave it at that and the second zone might be served by BT3 later or when the front amp/speakers is upgraded. I can also NOT do bi-amp and use the extra channel for second zone if the need arise.

To sum the possible layout:
- external bi-amp front
- 7.4.1 setup
- 2nd zone later (BT3 maybe or when upgrade front speaker/amp)

or

- external amp front
- 7.4.1 setup
- external amp second zone

Most amp out there (I know of and within reach) will only do 2 channel, while they do A+B most are not bi-amp but bi-wire. I say this because if using A only min. 4 ohm, but A+B is min. 8ohm. And all my speakers are 6 ohm.

After looking around I have 2 possible options:
A pair of Kenwood KM-X1000 listed at RM2500
or
ADCOM GFA-6000 + GTP-600 listed at RM1588
or
Emotiva BasX-A300 (but where's the fun in experimenting?)

My question is will these amps allow me to do the above?
Are they at least as powerful and as clean as my RX-A3040?

With the KM-X1000 I should have enough power. Being separate amps, I have better redundacy if one goes down.

With the GFA-6000 I'm thinking to drive my HF using the 2 rear 60w(8ohm)-100w(4ohm) channel and the LF using the 2x100w(8ohm)-150w(4ohm) front channels.
As a bonus I could even drive my center using the 3rd front channel.
The pre-amp will probably be useful when I setup second zone.

My speakers are as below:
Front Yamaha NS-F160, Nominal/Max 50W/300W, 30Hz-36kHZ (-10dB), 87dB/2.83V/1m
Center Yamaha NS-C160, Nominal/Max 30W/80W, 60Hz-38kHZ (-10dB), 86dB/2.83V/1m
Front Height Yamaha NS-B160, Nominal/Max 30W/80W, 60Hz-38kHZ (-10dB), 82dB/2.83V/1m
Surround Back, Yamaha NS-B330, Nominal/Max 40W/120W, 55Hz-45kHZ (-10dB), 87dB/2.83V/1m
Surround Side, ELAC Debut B6, Nominal/Max ?W/120W, 44Hz-20kHZ (?dB), 87dB/2.83V/1m
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Why bi-amp? You don't even have an external crossover unit to make bi-amp a noticeable difference.

No comment on the Kenwood amp, but the Adcom GFA-6000 and Emotiva BasX A300 has a more capable amp section than the A3040. Both can handle 4ohm loads at high volumes with relative ease. I have an A500 which in comparison to my A3060, does handle transient loads more linearly and does sound cleaner overall.
The receiver will get pretty darn hot when running at near reference volumes, especially since I crossover at 60hz. Is there an objective "sound quality" difference though? No, lol. That said, my A500 is relegated to powering my height speakers only as my main LCRs are powered by a Parasound A51.

Honestly, if you are looking at entry-level external amps - you should just be getting them for the sole purpose of adding more speakers. The latter of which it seems like you are planning to do, so I guess that's a legitimate purchase.

On another note, is it possible for you to look at a second subwoofer option? Because that's the single most significant upgrade you can add to your system instead of all these external amp addition.
SSJBen
post Dec 7 2017, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(teop @ Dec 7 2017, 04:38 PM)
The bi-amping is purely for experimenting, to satisfy one's curiosity, something that presented itself in the process of expanding, and it's fun.

The main goal is to give more power to my fronts, free some power for my A3040 and to add a rear-height.

The second zone have always been a requirement and I have actually tried it but because my RIP RX-v679 didn't have EQ for 2Zone it sounded really bad for my speakers. So with this it may as well put the option back on the table.

On the subwoofer, I'm still trying to integrate it well into my room. It has several issues right now that I'm trying to fine tune
- booming, not so much a problem at the listening position but in other rooms in the house. Really loud and annoying. REW seems to be able to fix that, but I'm still trying.
- rattling fixtures at high volume, e.g. windows panel, plaster ceiling, etc.

I'm trying to EQ it with REW manually since the A3040 have limited adjustment bands, frequency range and steps. Requires a lot of iterative adjustments - slowly I hope I'll get it right. I find myself crossing over at 60hz too after REW instead of the usual 80hz.

I found that there is a huge dip in the 60hz region for the sub. As I'm not using UMIK but an SPL meter for this, I'm not sure how accurate it is. I'm in the process of getting a UMIK anyway.

Location wise, can't do much - it's the front right corner of the room facing back or left into the room. with a couple of inch of movement.

I have the option but prefer not to put it at the back of the room as it might invite unwanted attention from The HM. Also it will expose it to all kinds of hazard in plain open space.

Is the price for the Adcom reasonable?
*
Not going to stop your experimentation if that's what makes you sate your curiosity. smile.gif

I think the price for the Adcom amps are okay assuming they are still in decent condition. Check first. Otherwise, I do quite like the Emotiva BasX amps - they are more expensive than they used to be in their UPA variant, but you know in Malaysia you don't have endless choices.

As for the sub, let me understand this - you are measuring with REW, but how are you applying the EQ? YPAO Manual? IIRC, A3040 only has bands down to 30hz and that's not good enough.
SSJBen
post Dec 8 2017, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(teop @ Dec 7 2017, 11:25 PM)
I used REW to measure then have it calculate the filters. As it won't match exactly, I choose as close as possible. Then I measure again and the results are pretty good. I can tell it is getting better as with each iteration the suggested correction filters are less.

Knowing what are my problem frequency, I can also set my own filter in REW according to what YPAO Manual can support and have REW estimate the outcome. I can then apply the filters on YPAO and check the results. It's time consuming.

YPAO correction is extremely limited, but I work with what I have and go from there. I'm thinking of investing in UMIK now that I know I can do the correction. I'll consider more professional EQ if the need arrises or when I have the budget.
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I'm really not sure how you can correct much without an external solution (like a minidsp or anti-mode) considering you said you only have one spot for your sub . The 16-30hz correction is a monumentally important region to EQ. The A3040 doesn't have that support sadly.

I use 1/3rd octave for YPAO manual when measuring with REW, that's about as close as it gets to match YPAO's resolution. I only apply YPAO correction in the low midrange region (160-300hz) and in the 1khz-4khz area just to tame some ringing. These are the frequencies where YPAO's resolution is enough.
SSJBen
post Apr 23 2018, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(doggmeister @ Apr 23 2018, 05:56 PM)
anyone have any opinion on this one?

http://www.stylelaser.com.my/product/pione...theatre-system/
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Meh speakers, rubbish sub. Perhaps on par with some "high-end" soundbars.

Only thing it has going for is that it's cheap.
SSJBen
post Apr 24 2018, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(doggmeister @ Apr 24 2018, 12:51 PM)
hi yes please maybe can go to 5k max if that helps? my priority is quality over latest technology, i would prefer the best of breed of surround sound minus the new stuff like dolby atmos
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If you want really good quality, sad to say but 5k isn't going to cut it.

You have 3 options:

1) Buy a cheap set, live with it until it dies or until you get really dissatisfied with your purchase and then waste more money to find an "upgrade". Only perk to this is that you might be satisfied with a cheap set and you're golden. Sound is subjective after all.

or

2) Buy it in stages. Meaning, get the important parts first - Left and Right speakers, a capable sub, a decent receiver. Build up your funds, add a center, add surrounds/heights, add another sub. This is by far my most recommended method.

or

3) Buy second hand. There are good speakers that are being sold for a good second hand price. Good speakers are good speakers, a speaker from the 90s that sounded amazing will still sound amazing today (assuming everything is still working properly).


If you can take your 5k budget and put it all into a 2.1 setup, you'll get a better experience than spreading it thinly through 6 speakers.

But if you really don't want the fuss - I think this is okay: http://www.stylelaser.com.my/product/q-aco...ystem-graphite/
You'll have to top up another 1.5k or so for a receiver, which slightly exceeds your 5k budget but I think it is worth the extra.
SSJBen
post May 2 2018, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(doggmeister @ Apr 30 2018, 03:39 PM)
where to buy from that is reputable?
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hifi4sale.net forum is a decent place.
SSJBen
post Jun 19 2018, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(herojack41 @ Jun 18 2018, 10:30 AM)
Jamo is somewhat budget range you can get in "DIY" style.

is not a bad starts.....slowly you will move up the food chain  brows.gif
*
Jamo C93 and C103 bookshelfs are pretty amazing though.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Jun 19 2018, 04:13 PM
SSJBen
post Jun 29 2018, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(enkil @ Jun 29 2018, 09:12 PM)
What kinda budget range are talking for these? Thanks
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RM2k+ and RM7k+.

But not a lot of places stock them anymore as production for these speakers has ceased. Klipsch owns Jamo now, so here's hoping Jamo can re-release them or something.
SSJBen
post Aug 28 2018, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(hannchua @ Aug 28 2018, 04:40 PM)
Anyone using SVS subs here? If so, any important good/bad comments about it? If I were to pay more for any other subs, which one do you recommend? Thanks in advance!  notworthy.gif
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Many who are serious about HT in Malaysia are already using SVS subs. Not only because they great subs, but because htkaki is a fantastic in customer support and an overall super friendly dude.

Sure we don't have as many choices like in the US where you can get JTR, Seaton, Funk, PSA, Hsu and so on... you're kinda spoiled for choices there in the west, so SVS hasn't really been the king in price-performance as it once was. But it's no denying that their subs are still great.

Unless you can ship in something from JTR or Seaton (and if you can, you probably have super deep pockets anyway so you might as well hire someone to DIY you some monster dual 24" subs instead), otherwise I don't think you should pay anymore for subs other than SVS - in Malaysia specifically. An alternative is Rythmik which is being brought in by Sound Fusion these days and I'm mighty impressed with the FV18HP.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Aug 28 2018, 05:17 PM
SSJBen
post Aug 28 2018, 07:25 PM

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QUOTE(hannchua @ Aug 28 2018, 07:16 PM)
Alright alright! Thanks for the detailed reply! I feel like this industry is so slow-moving in Malaysia. Don't Malaysians care about AV fidelity? Anyway, have been eyeing on the PB-4000 for quite some time now... but I've talked to Max from htkaki in June/July but couldn't get myself to go down to NS... yet
Salute you sir haha! Have been reading and watching reviews for more than a year... hoping to actually get the sub and SVS' mid channel speaker too but it's a bit too tall for my setup... (8.2 inches) I think I'll go listen to them first... Thanks for your reply too!
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Nope. Majority don't care or know enough about good audio and visuals. Many see "4k and HDR" and they would instantly think it's good. Many see 200w x 7 on a receiver and they think the amp is outputting 1400w. Many see a soundbar with atmos and they think it's real atmos. So, unfortunately the market here is very niche.

The PB4000 is a great sub and like all subs, placing it well is key. Which SVS center channel speaker are you interested in? The Prime or Ultra?

Btw, if you are from KL - you don't have to go to Seremban. You can contact Chong from Actsessory Shoppe.
SSJBen
post Aug 29 2018, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(hannchua @ Aug 28 2018, 07:41 PM)
I really hope that speaker companies do not follow the fate of Oppo digital... Now I can't find a competing uhd bluray player but the Cambridge Audio CXUHD. I want to future-proof my system but it seems like it's the format wars happening all over again, so I haven't pulled the trigger to get the player...

Interested in the SVS ultra center speaker... Still doing research in finding the best non-powered center channel speaker at that price point... or a bit more...

Mr. Max recommended me to head down to their shop because they have a dedicated space for demo-ing. 1 hour drive for me from PJ...
*
While there has been a rise of popularity in soundbars over the last 3 years, the individual speaker market (outside of Malaysia that is) is growing. So I doubt many companies are going to become Bose.
The growth in Malaysia is also not stagnant, it is moving - just very slowly.

The SVS Ultra center is a good center. I had the Prime center for a long time and also the Ultra for a brief month or so. It's a fairly meaty center channel, great off-axis imaging due to the 3 way design. My minor criticism with it is that its soundstage isn't wide enough for very big screens (I'm talking above 120") and at very high volumes, the tweeter MAY be a tad bright (I didn't mind it but many don't like bright speakers so just a note).

If you can head down to NS, then of course all the better. Actsessory at SS2 is much nearer to you though and Chong does have a full SVS system (also calibrated by Max) for demo.
SSJBen
post Aug 29 2018, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(hannchua @ Aug 29 2018, 06:44 PM)
As I have been spoiled by super high-end systems after visiting the KL AV Show, I'm more of a movie guy now... Thank you for the information! I'm okay with bright as I like to hear the shards of glass flying towards me LOL Isn't Actsessory in Subang Jaya? You seem to know Mr. Chong very well.....
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SS14*** I don't know how my phone auto-corrected to SS2. rclxub.gif
Yes I know Chong quite well, very friendly and supportive guy too.

The Ultra series aren't as bright as the Prime series (which in some cases can even be borderline harsh). I really like the Ultra bookshelves and center, great speakers that does everything well really - just not super exceptional for certain content.
You should also check out KEF R series if you are into the higher-end spectrum for HT setup. If you really want to go super loud and not be afraid of blowing the voice coils (i.e reference volume at a very big room) then check out JBL Pro line of speakers.
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post Sep 19 2018, 05:58 PM

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QUOTE(stilo10 @ Sep 19 2018, 04:28 PM)
Yeah, the Fv18hp was impressive with clean and accurate bass! Are you planning to get 1 for yourself?  brows.gif

*
Yes, already planning to get a pair of them. Just the matter of collecting the funds now. tongue.gif
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