hi all......its been a long time since i've been missing fr my hobby and now recently embarking on my next journey in home entertainment.....

so first off........i have not gotten my HT equipment and still running off my audio rig

i have plans to built my audio room cum ht room ....hence the need for me to understand and collect more info and opinion.

before i get into the equipment details....in my opinion, the room size and built has to be correct first as the first basic fundamentals

potential room size: 16' x 27'. Some say this size is ok. what do you think?

there's been a lot of debates and topics about the walls, roof and floor.
My plans:
walls: double layer brick, or single layer brick with 80kg rockwool panels all round

ceiling: concrete with plaster ceiling. not sure how else or what else to do

floor: wood laminated 12mm (not sure if i hv the budget for solid wood floor)

question: can i have the room without windows? scared not enuf ventilation and air. any sifu here has done it without windows? if put windows.....how to sound proof?

projector screen size: what's the recommended screen size for such a room?
out of my thoughts.....my current audio rig is going in with a separate ht 5.1speakers

my current speakers are floor standers about 1.15m tall each.....therefore it might block the lower part of the screen if mounted too low

the ht speakers, i have plans to place it behind d screen. the screen will be fixed at the 16' wall, 3feet away from the wall using wood frames and black velvet cloth
the 3 feet is for me to hide the HT speakers

power wiring: since my 3 phase power is in the process approval.....i'm planning to separate 1 dedicated phase for the audio room (however the aircon and non audio/video will be from another phase)

1. use same DB box for the entire 3 phase and just split the phase and fuses accordingly? or

2. two separate DB box where 2 phase for other usage and 1 dedicated for AV. So far can't find any audio grade......for me.....zero power filtration and pure copper would do

3. power cable gauge? anyone tried using bigger AWG sizes like 8AWG? or normal 14awg/12awg is sufficient?

here comes my plans for the equipment:

HT setup:
Projector: 4k projector. Not decided which one, but am highly interested in Sony for the time being. Any other recommendation?

Screen: 100" to 120". as long as it fits, maximizes and not being blocked by my speaker

HT amp: LX57.

HT speakers: few brand in mind.....KEF, Jamo, Mission....budget about 10k for 5.1

Bluray: Oppo 105 & my current Dune HD Max

cables: don't plan to fit any boombastic cables.....probably standard power cords, standard 1.4 hdmis and vandamme speaker cables. power conditioner probably only for the source only.

since my audio rig is complete......no changes to it.....

anyone know where to find those nice cozy HT room chairs? better is come with motorized recliner......just a thought......but if budget tak cukup....then settle for normal sofa first

I have a windowless HT room. I installed an exhaust fan that is turned on for 30 minutes, twice a day, using a timer.
So far, managed to keep the humidity in the room within control. Have to leave the door open when not in use to allow the air flow, though.
To add: When the HT room is in use, I have the exhaust fan opening fully covered; problem is sometime forget to open the cover after use and the exhaust fan is subject to excessive load when turned on later.

This post has been edited by skeelee: May 19 2014, 12:34 PM

16' x 27' is a good size

sending you a PM to share some thoughts

better to post here so that everyone can read. i'm also interested in your thoughts.
we all could learn from each other.

there's no absolute golden ratio. there's a suggested ratio, which is to avoid any of the sides to be in exact multiples from each other.
the tip is to avoid exact multiples of 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 4, and other multiplication of that.

so avoid 10 x 20, 5 x 20 or stuff like that. hence arriving to the suggested ratio of 1.67 and 2.67. because it's not an exact multiplication of anything.
your 27/16 = 1.6875. a freckin good ratio.
opt for a 9.5 feet ceiling and you'll hit very near the recommended ratio.
16'/9.5' = 1.68
27'/9.5' = 2.84

the suggested way is to multiply your ceiling height x 1.67 = room width. ceiling height x 2.67 = room length.
so for your case the best size would be 9.5' x 15.86' x 25.36'. pretty near your size.

the suggestion is to avoid frequency bounce issue in quarter and half wavelength because it'll introduce comb filtering to the final output. better to avoid the issue altogether rather than introducing correction later.

double bricked ala DIY style IMHO is only necessary for the connecting walls to the other room.
rather than using just double brick or arranging the bricks lengthwise to make a wide wall, i think it's better to put up a double brick wall with an air gap ala diy style to help attenuate the sound penetration to the other room.

but it doesn't have to be on all 4 sides. you could refer to my house plan if you like. i only put it up on 1 side of the room.

avoid plaster ceiling if ever planning on introducing a good sub into the room. it'll crack the ceiling. my room currently using the old asbestos ceiling with wood structure. it still creaks and rattle because of the sub.

go for acoustic gypsum board/acoustic gypsum ceiling. heard that even normal gypsum board is also rattle free.

the best material would be fully carpeted. with the insulation rubber or plastic underneath. more materials underneath the floor is even better.
wood laminate won't do a thing to the floor bounce. but carpet helps. tile is even worse than wood.

windows is essential IMHO if you're planning to use the room for something else than watching movies. to soundproof the windows, you could go for double glazed or laminated window with good locking mechanism to avoid them rattling. cover them with thick curtains with rubber layer like the ones used in hospitals. the curtains is better than just a plain wall.

just don't make the glasses too wide tho.

there's so many question. i'm tired of typing. maybe later.

Was sharing alternatives way for the wall:

single layer 9inch brick + air gap layer + a layer of high density sound absorbing foam- (vibration reducer mat) sandwiched in between two layers of high density fiber board.

Outer surface wall can be attached with acoustic treatment greener wood panels/ PE board to control echo.

ceiling: concrete with plaster ceiling is alright but be sure to use thick ones, (12mm thickness for example), or you could add HDF (high density fibre board + sound absorbing foam behind ceilings)

floor: Floating floor can be an option for you. Wooden-framed with HDF board + vibration reducer mat behind it).

For windows: if you do want to put window, I would suggest double-glaze window which does help a lot in reducing sound travel from your HT to outside. The window need to be air-tight ones which means you do not allow air gap especially when window is closed.

Also some suggestion on chairs

paskal.....having just 1 double layer wall...wouldn't the sound be abit imbalance? i'm talkng from an audiophile perspective....HT probably not much effect as the amp can be recalibrated.

any suggestion on where to put the projector?

rear wall? ceiling mount?

depends mostly on your budget. if you're targeting for a huge screen, then you need quite a high output projector, sharp output/lens that will retain sharpness for a large screen. i'm not an expert in this field but i think it's best not to go above 120" diagonal with a projector less than <RM10k.

some people opt for a large screen, but sit far far away. calculating the field of view, you could achieve similar result with a smaller screen, but sitting closer to the screen. so why waste precious light output and reduce sharpness by sitting far far away?
anyway it's a personal opinion so others with more experience could provide better insight.

some people like to mount the screen up high high in the sky. and watch while looking up. causes neck pain to me. you could mount the screen higher than your floorstander and put it underneath the screen.
or you could opt for a smaller screen and put it at the side of the screen. 120" diagonal is only 8.75' apart. if you don't believe all that 'it must be 6 feet apart or it'll sound bad' crap rule then can consider mounting the screen lower and put the floorstanders at the sides.

dedicating 1 phase entirely for the HT is a bad thing to do. IMO.
you're supposed to distribute the entire 3 phase of the line evenly to the entire house. best if it the load is even during any given time. if 1 phase is dedicated just for the HT then it'll be unused most of the time. a waste of the 3 phase wiring.

main problem isn't from dedicated wiring or not, but from the return line (neutral) wire. if you put a large current return together with the live wire to your HT phase, then when the large current return happen, it'll go through the shared neutral line and dumped inside your equipment. separating the phase to your HT will isolate the live wire, but won't isolate the neutral wire as it's still shared by all 3 phase.
voltage transient will be isolated from the other phase (good thing) but unless you have a large motor on the same phase, the transient will be mainly from the TNB station. which there's nothing you could do even if you dedicate a phase for it.

my kid is nagging me to go to sleep. later.
put it at the ceiling. your wall is too far. you'll lose light output and sharpness if you put it at the wall.

i freckin love this sketchup thingy.

if you put up a 92" projector screen, but sit 10 feet away, you'll only have 36.9 degrees of FOV.
it's the same as watching a 50" TV from 5.5 feet away.

in which case, why bother with a projector setup if you wanna sit far far away?

you've got a point too.....

my plan is to sit 15' from the screen.
my floor stander will be 8 feet apart.....or even 8'6" apart (and no, i'm not a believer that speakers must be 6' apart).
can't have the floor stander too close, unlike book shelves
the speaker positioning is neither right or wrong.
its what sounds best to the ears.

Sonus Faber Elipsa or Stradavari can go 10feet apart given the right amp power....

i believe that the larger the speakers, the more room you need to let it breathe.....just like the Wilson Audio.....whether its Sasha, Puppy or Alexandra.....you need the room space....

so probably a 120" will snug in comfortably....

This post has been edited by hushymushy: May 20 2014, 05:00 PM

Does below quote consider reasonable?

Onkyo TX-NR525 x 1 SET> RM2200
Wharfedale Diamond 122 x 1 PR > RM1300
Wharfedale Diamond 101C x 1 PC > RM950
Proficient Audio C610 x 1 PR > RM1200
Wharfedale S-10e Subwoofer x 1 PC > 950

have not heard of proficient audio before....rear surrond speakers?

but the rest seems right.

yes. it's ceiling type. another option propose by the shop to avoid seeing the drop down rear surround speaker cable. not sure is good suggestion or not as i was new to this.

well....do shop around before you decide....can't comment much

you can take a look at other speaker brands like Jamo, PSB, KEF Mission and many more.

best to audition it before deciding.....

B&W had in wall speaker.

distribute the phases evenly. don't waste by dedicating a single phase just for HT. just isolate the aircond through a dedicated wire to the DB.

if i were you, i'll avoid motor pump/microwave/induction cooker or any other high current switching on/off from the HT phase. use inverter aircond if it's shared with the HT phase. lamps/downlights/fans/tv/computer is ok if it needs to be shared with the HT phase.

rather than isolating the DB just for the HT, isolate a single DB to the farthest place in your house. it might be kitchen or wiring for rooms. it's easier if you need to pull another live wire from the DB. if the HT happens to be the farthest place, then isolate it.
there's a few way to wire the 3 phase, but i think this is the most proper and most beneficial way:

(refer above diagram) even if the entire wiring is in the same large, single DB box, it's still fundamentally isolated from each other. all the phases and current return are isolated from each other. this way it's even easy to add surge protection to the entire circuit or to specific phase.

usually the rule is 2.5mm wires for 18A applications. and 4mm for anything up to 30A.


you could use 2.5mm as HT current draw will never (ever) be more than 18A continuous. but if you got quoted nearly the same for 4mm then just go with 4mm. but remember there's an awful lot of bad quality wires on the market currently. bad quality 4mm is still bad compared to a good 2.5mm wire.

just don't get smaller than 2.5mm for the HT wiring.

there might be some typo. sorry.

Pascal...agreed on the good quality wiring....
Am thinking of screened power cables pure copper for the ht room.....

Long time didn't hear from you, hm. Did you manage to get the cables that you wanted?

hi max......nope......didn't manage to get the XLOs.
while i was in bangkok, was at KS&Sons.....they used to distribute XLO.....they stopped distributing now
had an intensive session with Walter and sort of surprised that the Reference 2 was actually better than the Reference 3.
Same goes for the Signature.

I am now on a mixture of Transparent Reference MM2 for spkr cables and interconnets with Nordost power cables.
Bought the transparents from Bangkok....used units......shall i say demo run in units at 60% of the price.

The Nordost power cables is somewhat better than the XLO Reference 2 power cords that i hv.....

bro your proposed room size, the 16'x27' issit already built?

Your 16'x27' HT room will be the envy of the town; very few people are able to have that.

Anyway, here're my two cents:

Viewing distance of 15' from a 120" screen has a viewing angle of 32 degree only, it is way too far. THX recommends viewing angle of 36 deg for the furthest seats, and the sweet spot is between 45 and 50 degrees. For 120" screen, the sweet spot is at 9.4' to 10.5' from the screen.

Since your room will be a dedicated HT room, you'll have the liberty of placing your speakers further into the room and not just at or in front of the screen. I find that placing speakers according to the Golden Rule tends to eliminate most of the acoustic problem and hence require less acoustic treatment to the room. Google for Cardas Golden rule speaker placement and explore.