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 [WTA] Overclockability drop with new PSU ?, War between my RM60, RM180 and RM475 PSU

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TSRIGmaster
post Jul 3 2006, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(satanhead2003 @ Jul 3 2006, 09:42 AM)
Well, my spec as in siggy.
It's actually not the value used. Its's percentage of Ampere used.

e.g.
12v1 = 4, meaning, 4% of 12v1 is used, which translate, 4 / 100 x 18A = 0.72A is used.
*
Unbelieve able .. Only few percent used (<10%)... some more is Opty with a 7900 Graphic ..... So this makes me really really confuse ....

That mean my ATRIX is a 100W real Power in a 500W Casing that claim that can Max up to 1000W ? What business trick is this ...... sweat.gif

Then I should go for 200W Acbel PSU instead .... but hard to find la ... All >380W ... what i got to do with all those wattage ... Using x1300 and not planing to get x1900 ..... in the near future .
satanhead2003
post Jul 3 2006, 11:36 AM

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Well, just think abt "Future Upgrades" dude. If u're willing to spend for another hundred when u upgrade ur pc, then, go for the lowest avvailable. But, do remember, future proc n gfx will consume more and more power. As for mine, I'm lucky enough to get 38W TDP opteron. 79GT is 90nm die which consume less power than its predecessor. which is around 51w idle. and 85w max full load.
max_cjs0101
post Jul 3 2006, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(SuperHero @ Jun 28 2006, 09:37 AM)
RM 78.00 can get pure power PSU ????
*
i don't think so leh...maybe can get low pure power lo..
TSRIGmaster
post Jul 3 2006, 02:17 PM

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I dont want future upgrades anymore ... haha , drive me crazy only ...
Always udgrades and upgrades ..... until i change 4 processor , 5 mobo , 6 PSU , 6 DDR , 3 Graphic card , 2 casing from , 5 HSF from last july to today ....

Lazy with the upgrades now ... because the computer i now already more powerful than i intended . I just want to design graphic using flash and play My simcity 4 and some Power point ... The same thing i do since 2002 . Nothing more .. whistling.gif

Future computer is totally diffrent spec lo ... I plan for a 5 (Gigabyte server linked) Conroe Quad Core Compter + Gigabyte quardro graphic , to design my Graphic and movie in the future . By that time , all things are cheap cheap ...

Just to sattle the PSU problem first here ... Just think whether i should use the same amount of money to Buy a Acbel LCD PSU ( if really PSU is the problem) or a X1600PRO ICeQ Graphic card (if PSU is not a problem ) ...... Anyway , my x1300 450mhz core Overclock to 702mhz Core is already more than enough for my basic application . Just plan if i use X1600 , i can get cooler GPU as the Graphic cooler of IceQ is better than those CoolerMaster Cool Viva VGA heat sink . biggrin.gif

So it is still the problem ... ATRIX ? Acbel ? Already spend too much on Computer stuff .... Even Cheap sale all the things also cannot get enough money to buy same new things .... ( I get the currently P4630 Processor because i had trade in 2 MoBo , 1 s478 CelD and 1 ATI 9225 Graphic )
TSRIGmaster
post Jul 3 2006, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(max_cjs0101 @ Jul 3 2006, 02:12 PM)
i don't think so leh...maybe can get low pure power lo..
*
Haha , come back after 1 hour of PSU test ... not actually test , just observations ...

RM 78.00 can get pure power PSU ????
No you can only get Real Power ... Not Pure Power .... Actually all the Cap cap capalang Brand PSU is not so "simply" put a Wattage on the casinng and that's it ... It normally said 400W MAX @ 25celcius or so .... That means under controled condition , the maximum possible Wattage output may be true .... ( unless they want to get Sue by someone .... business strategy smile.gif ) The thing may be true only under certain condition .. You know la ... How to keep PSU at 25Celcius at all times in Malaysia .... Unless Face to air cond la ... PSU very Temperature Peaky one ... Too high or too low , the wattage produce is diffrent ... Silicon Mosfet Performance may Vary ... I had notice those Ciplak PSU had very narrow ... 0 celcius to 40 celcius ... This is just to prevent people from said the PSU not UP to Standard .... But Good brand Like Acbel had working temp from -20 to 70 celcius (Silicon only in danger after 80Celcius ...) They dare to said that because they can go future ...
One more thing as long as their Multimeter Reads 400W at all possible perfect condition ... They can proudly Promote that their PSU is 400W .. aha Business strategy ... But for Good brand , their 400w may mean always above the minimum par of 400W regardless of temp .. unless extreme temp ...

Ah ... Mosfet Mosfet Mosfet ... crucial component in PSU ... anyway this dont cost much .... You can get 12V@50A if you want for only RM20 per mosfet ... But one thing that is important is the Voltage controller ... It control the switching of the Mosfet (hence called Switching PSU ) and it is very expensive if you get a Good PSU .. This High speed Switch controller determine your stability ... The faster the responds over the negative feedback , the more stable the current ... Acbel had a good Controller ... expecially the LCD version ... which vertually connected to the computer USB for better control of voltage flatuation .

Flatuation of ATRIX is terrible on the long term when sudden load is induced not when the load is already induced .....
I observe this when i open the voltage Sensor for one hour and see what it flatuate .... Yes in short time you see nothing flatuate much ... But you put it as sensing once per second for 1 hour .. you will notice someting .... Dangerous indeed ... ATRIX can actually go as low as 1.26V and as High as 3.39V while the nominal is 3.33V ... this account to more than 5% of flatuation of the VCore .... sweat.gif this goes to the 12V rail as well .... (thats while it had unstable Voltage regulation ... a power Mosfet but poor poor regulation ) No wonder it connot boot at the begining ... The voltage cannot be stablise in a sudden rise in demand ... anyway , if you say it can't run at REAL POWER 500W as stated .. you may be wrong ... If you give it enough time , It will Burst to the full power .... Thats why , after suceessful boot at first boot , you can actually stress the CPU without risking underpower ... (PRIME , SANDRA ... all the stress test can't trip this baby )

So , Not "the weight" that resemble the Power of PSU ... "ATRIX is very heavy la , heavy than those Ciplak one " but it is true for certain extent as the Powerful the Mosfet , the bigger the Heatsink ... but if you had high performance heatsink , then it will be smaller .... ( and those High performance 3 rail PSU have very smaller heat sink as inside is too crowed )

More research going on tonite until i had get my Acbel 550W...

e-jump
post Jul 3 2006, 07:24 PM

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good stuff..
seems u know your thing..
how bout some pics of the test event, or maybe u can try follow how reviewers online test, rate n compare between psu's wink.gif
satanhead2003
post Jul 3 2006, 08:41 PM

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QUOTE(RIGmaster @ Jul 3 2006, 07:08 PM)
Haha , come back after 1 hour of PSU test ... not actually test , just observations ...

RM 78.00 can get pure power PSU ????
No you can only get Real Power ... Not Pure Power .... Actually all the Cap cap capalang Brand PSU is not so "simply" put a Wattage on the casinng and that's it ... It normally said 400W MAX @ 25celcius or so .... That means under controled condition , the maximum possible Wattage output may be true .... ( unless they want to get Sue by someone .... business strategy smile.gif ) The thing may be true only under certain condition .. You know la ... How to keep PSU at 25Celcius at all times in Malaysia .... Unless Face to air cond la ... PSU very Temperature Peaky one ... Too high or too low , the wattage produce is diffrent ... Silicon Mosfet Performance may Vary ... I had notice those Ciplak PSU had very narrow ... 0 celcius to 40 celcius ... This is just to prevent people from said the PSU not UP to Standard .... But Good brand Like Acbel had working temp from -20 to 70 celcius (Silicon only in danger after 80Celcius ...) They dare to said that because they can go future ...
One more thing as long as their Multimeter Reads 400W at all possible perfect condition ... They can proudly Promote that their PSU is 400W .. aha Business strategy ... But for Good brand , their 400w may mean always above the minimum par of 400W regardless of temp .. unless extreme temp ...

Ah ... Mosfet Mosfet Mosfet ... crucial component in PSU ... anyway this dont cost much .... You can get 12V@50A if you want for only RM20 per mosfet ... But one thing that is important is the Voltage controller ... It control the switching of the Mosfet (hence called Switching PSU ) and it is very expensive if you get a Good PSU .. This High speed Switch controller determine your stability ... The faster the responds over the negative feedback , the more stable the current ... Acbel had a good Controller ... expecially the LCD version ... which vertually connected to the computer USB for better control of voltage flatuation .

Flatuation of ATRIX is terrible on the long term  when sudden load is induced not when the load is already induced .....
I observe this when i open the voltage Sensor for one hour and see what it flatuate .... Yes in short time you see nothing flatuate much ... But you put it as sensing once per second for 1 hour .. you will notice someting .... Dangerous indeed ... ATRIX can actually go as low as 1.26V and as High as 3.39V while the nominal is 3.33V ... this account to more than 5% of flatuation of the VCore ....  sweat.gif this goes to the 12V rail as well .... (thats while it had unstable Voltage regulation ... a power Mosfet but poor poor regulation ) No wonder it connot boot at the begining ... The voltage cannot be stablise in a sudden rise in demand ... anyway , if you say it can't run at REAL POWER 500W as stated .. you may be wrong ... If you give it enough time , It will Burst to the full power .... Thats why , after suceessful boot at first boot , you can actually stress the CPU without risking underpower ... (PRIME , SANDRA ... all the stress test can't trip this baby )

So , Not "the weight" that resemble the Power of PSU ... "ATRIX is very heavy la , heavy than those Ciplak one " but it is true for certain extent as the Powerful the Mosfet , the bigger the Heatsink ... but if you had high performance heatsink , then it will be smaller .... ( and those High performance 3 rail PSU have very smaller heat sink as inside is too crowed )

More research going on tonite until i had get my Acbel 550W...
*
Wow.... just like Owen Hargreaves. From zero to hero. Well, i guess, u just answered ur initial question on the 1st post.LoL

QUOTE
I don't think ATRIX will give Lousy power output .... as it have mention the total power Peak output will be at 1KW ....

Anyway , is that dealing with power ? or any other Factor , such as overpowered PC cannot be overclocked ?

Or should i Buy the RM4++ Cooler Master 550w SLI power supply ?


woundxp
post Jul 3 2006, 09:17 PM

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Now you know why PSUs are expensive biggrin.gif
ksking
post Jul 4 2006, 10:27 AM

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do u confirm that ur oc stable last time?
priming stable?

another thg shd be motherboard i guess...
not really suit for oc?
TSRIGmaster
post Jul 4 2006, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(ksking @ Jul 4 2006, 10:27 AM)
do u confirm that ur oc stable last time?
priming stable?

another thg shd be motherboard i guess...
not really suit for oc?
*
All OC is stable at max 3.8 GHZ with FSB 1Kmhz (with my celeron D and P4 630) , higher than that , consider not stable ....
Anyway , My maximum record is at 3.9GHz , but not really stable ... can play game but those loaded ones really can jam in middle ..

Anyway , at 3.8GHz , Priming is nothing much harm to my system ... Once prime for one hour and i lazy to prime anymore ( Once play Game >14hour one go nothing happen , so assume to be stable - haha eating on the computer table .. what a mess- ) ... I rather spent time watching anime than looking at computer slow slow doing prime .

Haha , Anyway , Prime only apply continous load on the systemand see how long it can be stable ... ATRIX have no problem at that .. since the continious current is quite stable , only when the Boot up , the current is not stable , expecially the first boot ..... Therefore i categorise PRIME is continious System testing , and component cooling testing , and data bus cloging testing , system memory refresh testing , and arithmatic processing testing .... cannot test PSU refreshing testing ...
Cheap PSU had slow "voltage loss Recovery"

So , thats why , i say Priming had no effect on my system ... haha ...
Anyway , just cannot overclock futher ... can't break the 4.0GHz Barrier without Volt moding ... any one have idea how to volt mod ? there is no options can be found in my MOBO BIOS ....
My MOBO , Asus P5RD1-VM .... anyone oc it before ?

I tried Clock Gen before ... but cannot detect the system clock .... cannot acess also ..... Funny readings comming out like current Processor running at 6.4GHz , 300MHz PCI .... how to clock oh ... move abit already jam when apply .

Hehe , Planing to volt mad my Mobo after i get my Acbel PSU ... Since Conroe is in the future line , this P4 can Play Play already ...
ksking
post Jul 4 2006, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(RIGmaster @ Jul 4 2006, 02:17 PM)
All OC is stable at max 3.8 GHZ with FSB 1Kmhz (with my celeron D and P4 630) , higher than that , consider not stable ....
Anyway , My maximum record is at 3.9GHz , but not really stable ... can play game but those loaded ones really can jam in middle ..

Anyway , at 3.8GHz , Priming is nothing much harm to my system ... Once prime for one hour and i lazy to prime anymore ( Once play Game >14hour one go nothing happen , so assume to be stable - haha eating on the computer table .. what a mess- ) ... I rather spent time watching anime than looking at computer slow slow doing prime .

Haha , Anyway , Prime only apply continous load on the systemand see how long it can be stable ... ATRIX have no problem at that .. since the continious current is quite stable , only when the Boot up , the current is not stable , expecially the first boot ..... Therefore i categorise PRIME is continious System testing , and component cooling testing , and data bus cloging testing , system memory refresh testing , and arithmatic processing testing .... cannot test PSU refreshing testing ...
Cheap PSU had slow "voltage loss Recovery"

So , thats why , i say Priming had no effect on my system ... haha ...
Anyway , just cannot overclock futher ... can't break the 4.0GHz Barrier without Volt moding ... any one have idea how to volt mod ? there is no options can be found in my MOBO BIOS ....
My MOBO , Asus P5RD1-VM .... anyone oc it before ?

I tried Clock Gen before ... but cannot detect the system clock .... cannot acess also ..... Funny readings comming out like current Processor running at 6.4GHz , 300MHz PCI .... how to clock oh ... move abit already jam when apply .

Hehe , Planing to volt mad my Mobo after i get my Acbel PSU ... Since Conroe is in the future line , this P4 can Play Play already ...
*
this board consider low end mobo
dun expect it really can go for high oc...
mayb change board to oc better...
TSRIGmaster
post Jul 4 2006, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(ksking @ Jul 4 2006, 01:42 PM)
this board consider low end mobo
dun expect it really can go for high oc...
mayb change board to oc better...
*
Ehm ... have better choice ?
I prefer ATX MOBO ...not the micro atx one ....

Anyway , more result soon .. wait to get new mobo and see the PSU , MOBO and OC war ... ah , my 2X512MB DDR400 need to sale .... since Good MOBO uses DDR2 .... cry.gif Just bought them for 5weeks .... Ah spent allot last few month ...
ksking
post Jul 4 2006, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(RIGmaster @ Jul 4 2006, 07:58 PM)
Ehm ... have better choice ?
I prefer ATX MOBO ...not the micro atx one ....

Anyway , more result soon .. wait to get new mobo and see the PSU , MOBO and OC war ... ah , my 2X512MB DDR400 need to sale .... since Good MOBO uses DDR2 ....  cry.gif  Just bought them for 5weeks .... Ah spent allot last few month ...
*
can try to check for those using nF4 SLi intel edition chipset mobo...
Biostar T series not bad for oc...
8tvt
post Jul 5 2006, 10:51 AM

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RIGmaster

it's better for u stop OC la.. 3.8 to 4 or 4.5ghz not a big different i think..
unless u can achieve 5ghz..
if u manage to get good upgrade (psu, mobo, etc) is it worth to pay? better get higher clock cpu then.. and oc more...

but psu thingy.. still baffle me.. haih...
max_cjs0101
post Jul 5 2006, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(8tvt @ Jul 5 2006, 10:51 AM)
RIGmaster

it's better for u stop OC la.. 3.8 to 4 or 4.5ghz not a big different i think..
unless u can achieve 5ghz..
if u manage to get good upgrade (psu, mobo, etc) is it worth to pay? better get higher clock cpu then.. and oc more...

but psu thingy.. still baffle me.. haih...
*
wahlauehh..Oc til 5GHz?you did b4 ar??
TSRIGmaster
post Jul 5 2006, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(8tvt @ Jul 5 2006, 10:51 AM)
RIGmaster

it's better for u stop OC la.. 3.8 to 4 or 4.5ghz not a big different i think..
unless u can achieve 5ghz..
if u manage to get good upgrade (psu, mobo, etc) is it worth to pay? better get higher clock cpu then.. and oc more...

but psu thingy.. still baffle me.. haih...
*
Not much diffrent on Preformance .... it may be ... but >1K MHz FSB ... i craze for that drool.gif
if can get higher in FSB , the internal Data Transfer will be extremely fast .... Anyway , i oc a 2.66GHz celeron D to 3.9GHz before and the performance is outperform my P4 630 3.0GHz in many areas like Pi calculation .... If i can get this P4 higher ... haha .... fast fast ..... can do lots of Animation work which needs allot of CPU rendering ....
Of course , my target is beat the Extreme series .... The fun of OC ... who cares the cost it may take ....

Look back ... ah ! i had buy 5 MoBo , 4 Processor , 6DDR RAM , 6 PSU , 2 casing , 12 Case Fans , 2 VGA HSF , 5 Proc HSF ......... left my bank account empty .... but it is fun .... OC , OC , OIC .
satanhead2003
post Jul 5 2006, 02:42 PM

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Yeahhh.... that's the spirit.... rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif let the spirit be with u rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif

This post has been edited by satanhead2003: Jul 5 2006, 02:43 PM
8tvt
post Jul 5 2006, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(satanhead2003 @ Jul 5 2006, 02:42 PM)
Yeahhh.... that's the spirit.... rclxm9.gif  rclxm9.gif let the spirit be with u rclxm9.gif  rclxm9.gif
*
lol oc sampai pokai.. rclxub.gif
sniper on the roof
post Jul 5 2006, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(RIGmaster @ Jul 5 2006, 01:58 PM)

Look back ... ah ! i had buy 5 MoBo , 4 Processor , 6DDR RAM , 6 PSU , 2 casing , 12 Case Fans , 2 VGA HSF , 5 Proc HSF ......... left my bank account empty .... but it is fun .... OC , OC , OIC .
*
So many words....headache....didn't read.... but the Force flows strong in you.

Most of all...u totally tar pau'ed me in terms of hardware purchases.

Mine was...over past 3 years.

3 mobos, 3 processors, 4GB of rams, 4 psu's, 3 casings, countless fans, 6 vga HSFs, ~10 cpu HSF (lost count)...and get this... 8 VGA's!!!! rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif
TSRIGmaster
post Jul 6 2006, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(sniper on the roof @ Jul 5 2006, 04:00 PM)
So many words....headache....didn't read.... but the Force flows strong in you.

Most of all...u totally tar pau'ed me in terms of hardware purchases.

Mine was...over past 3 years.

3 mobos, 3 processors, 4GB of rams, 4 psu's, 3 casings, countless fans, 6 vga HSFs, ~10 cpu HSF (lost count)...and get this... 8 VGA's!!!!  rclxm9.gif  rclxm9.gif
*
Haha , Exactly next month will be my One year aniverasary in Kedah .... rclxm9.gif
My OC experience will be one year then ... rclxm9.gif

If i can buy a new rig by this month (1MOBO , 2 RAM , 1VGA ,1PSU and 1HDD )...

Then I have a record of changing 6 MoBo , 4 Processor , 8 RAM , 7 PSU , 2 casing , 12 Case Fans , 2 VGA HSF , 5 Proc HSF and 4 VGA for my RIG in one year ... yeppie !!!

Ah .. Like System Test Pulak .... Haha , experience of using is better than anything . Anyway , Keep me Updated LYN !!! More Intel-ATi RIG to go ...

Next Plan ... Conroe quard Core and Intel 975 chipset Mobo .....
Ah ... Never try AMD before , may be i will try afterthat .

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