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> The Web Design / Development Industry, Filling up the black hole

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TSetsuko
post Apr 6 2006, 02:05 PM, updated 4 months ago

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Since the old thread got removed, I decided to start a new one. This topic might stray or might not be in the right place for such a discussion however I'll leave that to the mods to decide. If the topic gets moved, my bad for not knowing which forum this kinda discussion should be belonged in. smile.gif

Anyway, I'll start by talking about the 6 months+ i've been working on my own as a freelancer and as a business.

It's been great with freedom working from home and relaxing when I want to. But there have been stressful times of managing hard impatient clients with demanding projects. The good news is that my patience has been at a higher level so managing clients of all levels has been not too difficult.

The work has been slow which means income hasn't been great and definetely it's difficult being in a country where not everyone understands websites today and other things involving this business. However, I still believe there's light to this business and I'll no matter what work on in my line of website design and consultation even if I have to work under a company and run this business to keep married life afloat in future. wink.gif

So to anyone who wants go their own way, make sure you've got a very good reason why and not just because you don't like your boss or your colleagues. If you want to work on your own, make sure it's of a higher calling like quality, exploration, experimentation, improvisation or just a time to break off from working as an employee for 10 odd years and it's time to do your own thing.

So let the questions, answers, discussions of this business get going once again. smile.gif

This post has been edited by etsuko: Oct 11 2013, 12:35 AM
jensen
post Apr 6 2006, 02:45 PM

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hi there, this is jensen and i m juz fresh graduate. i worked as freelancer for website design as well. i had some question which is

1. do u prepare documentation for the company which you deal with?

2. how about hosting and domain name fees?do you pay 4 them every year?or just help me 2 pay?

3. during maintanence?any problem if the company want to swap their website to let other company manage it?

btw, do u need some1 who have skill on Flash and Firework?
maybe we can coorperate?haha..
BlueSilver
post Apr 6 2006, 03:36 PM

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Woot my turn to write something here.

Well, i've started working as a freelance web designer a year ago. Boy, was it tough. It was the hardest year in my life. Thanks to some net mates, they were there to teach me and support me. Without them, i don't think i'll be able to make it til this day.

The main reason why at first i became a website is due to the low payment of salary in my area. Well, i was a fresh graduate with a degree and the best they can offer me here is RM500 monthly. rclxub.gif LOL... that's why i became a freelancer.

But as time goes by, i realise that being a freelance web designer is not all about the money. No doubt sometimes you may earn more than working a regular job but how often does that happen? LOL.. Anyways, i had a chat with etsuko earlier (few months ago, i think) and he showed me that if all you want is a fix salary every month, then being a freelancer is not your choice. wink.gif

Anyways, being a freelancer for this long really helps me to learn a lot of things. Thanks to so many pros that are willing to help me. biggrin.gif

So in conclusion, no matter whatever people say, i will stay by my own will to be a freelance web designer in order to boost up the quality of websites from our country.

Cheers biggrin.gif
zeist
post Apr 6 2006, 03:45 PM

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Etsuko: You do websites not only in Malaysia, other countries too right? How do you advertise yourself as Web Designer to people all around the globe?

Dannyfoo.com? tongue.gif , do you have other site? More like corporate site, not personal. rolleyes.gif

Not sure if this question is appropriate to be asked here.

I would like to know, for starters, if I choose to run a site, what is the ideal web hosting space should I get? Minimum? Does it matter? Just to make sure everything run smoothly. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by zeist: Apr 6 2006, 03:45 PM
TSetsuko
post Apr 6 2006, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(jensen @ Apr 6 2006, 02:45 PM)
hi there, this is jensen and i m juz fresh graduate. i worked as freelancer for website design as well. i had some question which is

1. do u prepare documentation for the company which you deal with?

2. how about hosting and domain name fees?do you pay 4 them every year?or just help me 2 pay?

3. during maintanence?any problem if the company want to swap their website to let other company manage it?

btw, do u need some1 who have skill on Flash and Firework?
maybe we can coorperate?haha..
*
1. yes.. I prepare proposals for clients by request.
2. well, through experience so far, I find that if we ourselves host our clients we've less headache which makes things more manageable for us as well as the client. smile.gif
3. so far no client has asked us to do that but if it does happen, migrating a website shouldn't be any problem. just that when the other company needs the source files (Code, PSD, FLA..etc) the client will have to purchase it from us.

we're not currently accepting anyone else in the team but if you think you can change our mind, show us your portfolio. oh yeah, on an important note.. if you're working just for money, don't waste time asking us to hire you. LoL!

QUOTE(BlueSilver @ Apr 6 2006, 03:36 PM)
Woot my turn to write something here.Anyways, i had a chat with etsuko earlier (few months ago, i think) and he showed me that if all you want is a fix salary every month, then being a freelancer is not your choice. wink.gif
*
Yup, few months ago. Well, I'm glad our persuasion of 'websites with value' have reached few people. smile.gif

QUOTE(zeist @ Apr 6 2006, 03:45 PM)
Etsuko: You do websites not only in Malaysia, other countries too right? How do you advertise yourself as Web Designer to people all around the globe?

Dannyfoo.com?  tongue.gif , do you have other site? More like corporate site, not personal.  rolleyes.gif

Not sure if this question is appropriate to be asked here.

I would like to know, for starters, if I choose to run a site, what is the ideal web hosting space should I get? Minimum? Does it matter? Just to make sure everything run smoothly.  rolleyes.gif
*
Just few days ago a guy from Dubai called and asked if we did courier tracking systems along with the website. I answered honestly and said nope, we don't have that kinda expertise as of yet. Why? Because we really haven't done such a thing and I myself don't even know how does the DHL/UPS system work. I pondered over the idea of it. However, if anyone knows of a company that does this stuff do PM me so I can inform the person. smile.gif

The team is still bashing each other up (with air filled hammers) trying to decide what's a proper name for the business. Websites Made Simple is a name I made up in belief of the working principles our company should be based on. Anyway, .com has already been taken so we're cracking each others heads at the moment coming up with a more suitable name to register a .com rclxms.gif

I forgot to say this, www.dannyfoo.com actually has been revamped to a more company type website but it's BETA. LOL!

What matters in hosting to me is reliability, support, service and speed. I prefer paying a lil more to someone who's been in the gig longer than a cheaper buy because the website is your access to potential clients and if it goes down or has too many problems, you're causing an equal amount of headache to what you've purchased. smile.gif

This post has been edited by etsuko: Apr 6 2006, 04:51 PM
jensen
post Apr 6 2006, 05:48 PM

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etsuko..
haha...thanks for all the valuable suggestion and opinion...
wat i want to say is i m not really work 4 money actually..web designer is my dream job n my interest..if i can take this interest to help me 2 earn money...tats amazing rite?
i believe that working with interest will make me myself less suffer from a lots of other job that i not really interested in.
i will show u my portfolio after i complete my 1st website and i believe that this is not really good enough..n i hope tat time u all can give me some opinion n suggestion..
actually i m not really means tat u need 2 hired me..mayb we ccan have some team work so that every1 strength can be use in correct way?rite?
anyhow..thanks a lot.....happy.gif
MohdRidhwan
post Apr 6 2006, 11:19 PM

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Im still in Form 5 taking Graphic Design.I would like to know more about web design business.
Was it tough when u 1st started this career?
What was the hardest thing u hv gone through?

This post has been edited by MohdRidhwan: Apr 6 2006, 11:19 PM
TSetsuko
post Apr 6 2006, 11:44 PM

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jensen, understood and you can always find an honest review from me. smile.gif
QUOTE(MohdRidhwan @ Apr 6 2006, 11:19 PM)
Im still in Form 5 taking Graphic Design.I would like to know more about web design business.
Was it tough when u 1st started this career?
What was the hardest thing u hv gone through?
*
There's a trend of companies looking to hire website designers or the popular one today is graphic designers come website designers - which in my opinion is stupid. So in other words, finding a job would depend when you graduate and how hardworking you are in trying to look for a job. A portfolio website will get you lucky sometimes - I landed my internship through that way.

Other than a website, you could send out a friendly email and resume with a link to your portfolio to companies in the web business. There are a numerous number of them and some of them don't really use Jobstreet. The other places you could check out from time to time bout vacancies in the design industry is at www.doxob.com.

The other part about defining the toughness of this career is that you'll need more than passion but patience to survive it. Being the asian culture, some bosses or superiors expect their colleagues to work overtime and the worst part if there's no replacement for the work done either in payment or a leave. Also, be expected to make lots of changes to clients work because the boss tries to please everyone - part of asian culture maybe.

The industry when working also demands you to be able to work quick and that sometimes kinda kills your creativity because you aren't given much freedom to come up with a conceptual design/solution. I think in terms of salary the industry is quite fair nowadays but there are stingy companies.

So if you're going to have to work for someone someday.. you'll need skills, dedication, lots of patience, passion (to keep on believing in yourself and what you love to do) and a little less sleep depending if the company concentrates more on advertising - tend to be the most hectic. Providence the member has more experience in this side.

Well, that's basically the hardships I went through when working.

This post has been edited by etsuko: Apr 7 2006, 08:24 AM
MohdRidhwan
post Apr 7 2006, 12:08 AM

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etsuko,
Thanks! It sure helps me about the 'Real' world i'll be facing in the future.
jensen
post Apr 7 2006, 12:59 AM

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hehe....i'll PM u the website tat i had done after tis...hehe...
in addiction, i check out the dannyfoo.com d...
i saw the portfolio and tat great...happy.gif

oh ya...actually...how do u get all the business?
from fren?the company get approach to u themselves?

TSetsuko
post Apr 7 2006, 08:28 AM

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i got enquiries from LY, the website, referrals from family and friends so far. nothing really out of the norm.

however, i'm coming up with ways for us to get more clients or at least create an awareness of our existence to our targeted markets.

speaking of targeted market.. have any of you freelancers realized or have a targeted market for yourself..? or do you do just what comes your way..?
momochi zabuza
post Apr 7 2006, 10:49 AM

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my target was developing flash application or games. i wanted to go on flash lite and that is for mobile application but it is still new here. another one thing that i target is courseware areas. since after i'm doing freelance with telekom smart school, i'm interested also in making a courseware. all of this are my targeted market.

and right now.. if i count from 2003... i just do what comes in my way.. heh icon_question.gif
TSetsuko
post Apr 7 2006, 12:11 PM

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educational sutff is definetely still lacking around the globe.. especially good ones in malaysia that the parents know they're paying what they're getting. smile.gif your Azimat game is a good start so I say keep on doing edutainment.
jensen
post Apr 7 2006, 03:41 PM

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but 1 thing tat really need to consider is...edutainment s/w content..
actually last time when i was in my degree second year..one of our assignment is develop an edutainment s/w ...but i think the content for the target audiences would b very hard 2 decide...the content which is violent (which most of the users will be more interested) will found hard to accept by the parents...in the same way...
the simple and normal content would not attractive to the users...
so....how 2 decide?
TSetsuko
post Apr 7 2006, 05:46 PM

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well, in terms of violence.. i dun think there needs to be total gore just to teach a lesson to kids. besides, it might give them nightmares if they were too young.

on the other hand, violence already exists today not because of games but because of other psychological resons involved.

anyway, the Awang game is based on simple content but just needs a meaning to them. smile.gif and imagine, if all goes well the government might implement it or you could sell the idea via some company.
momochi zabuza
post Apr 7 2006, 05:54 PM

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IMHO,

that's what makes it more challenging.. on how to attract people learn something boring shakehead.gif and turn it into attractive edutainment rclxm9.gif . taking my game/assignment as a sample, i have decide to focus on edutainment since other student want's to bring enjoyment to kids while lecturer said, the content have to follow and take part of the story. so i would say both of target audience and content are both important. wink.gif
momochi zabuza
post Apr 7 2006, 05:59 PM

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haha while i'm typing etsuko post oledi tongue.gif

that's why i put disclaimer there.. since the lecturer said all games that my class made was going to sell to karyanet to commercialized the story.. i promise there will be an upgraded version but since another assignment coming up .. so there will be delay. ..

now focusing on interactive art.. while nowadays so many interactive installation that serve as a TOY rather than telling in the concept and meaning.. so many things to do.. so little time.. doh.gif sweat.gif
TSetsuko
post Apr 8 2006, 12:11 AM

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well, i hope you'll be able to expand the game further.. and if you need help, just ask for some around. smile.gif we'll gladly share ideas with you so that you could choose a story to resemble Awang.

not to mention it'll be a big addition to your portfolio later. there be lie your passion. wink.gif
TSetsuko
post Apr 9 2006, 09:27 AM

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Why do you think the average number of clients in Malaysia don't really respect malaysian website designers unless you're an agency with several awards ? (Kancil and what not..?)

Is it our culture? Our upbringing? Our mentality? Or something else you've found?
momochi zabuza
post Apr 9 2006, 12:17 PM

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i think the client always think that ( - why not go for cheaper person that you can pay since when you pay cheap, it cut the cost. - ) being a freelancer with student title is a pain in the a** since when i request everything being documented they will said ( - you just a student how come you need things B&W vmad.gif - oh you're using pirated software so must be cheap mad.gif - ) bah.. im student so it is a common sense that i can't afford to buy original software, even i din buy original games. flex.gif

and as always, when we send quotation stating the price, they will ask for lower price with more features and functions. not to mention if your price is high they will go to another person that willing to do it cheap. doh.gif

another sad cases is the existance of middle-man. it's ok if person B that receive job from A and the B paying C with ratio 30:70 but that not always happen. my friend experienced that he doing php website for 5k ( 5k seems big for a student drool.gif ) but the actual payment is 14k blink.gif . so the friend of him has already eat 9k while he need to struggle to make sure the website reaching the value of 14k and he also need to see the A ( the client ) not the middleman. shakehead.gif i'm not saying being a middleman is a crime but middleman suppose to share reasonable ratio like 30:70, 20:80 like that. unsure.gif

culture i guess ph34r.gif

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