Since the old thread got removed, I decided to start a new one. This topic might stray or might not be in the right place for such a discussion however I'll leave that to the mods to decide. If the topic gets moved, my bad for not knowing which forum this kinda discussion should be belonged in.

Anyway, I'll start by talking about the 6 months+ i've been working on my own as a freelancer and as a business.

It's been great with freedom working from home and relaxing when I want to. But there have been stressful times of managing hard impatient clients with demanding projects. The good news is that my patience has been at a higher level so managing clients of all levels has been not too difficult.

The work has been slow which means income hasn't been great and definetely it's difficult being in a country where not everyone understands websites today and other things involving this business. However, I still believe there's light to this business and I'll no matter what work on in my line of website design and consultation even if I have to work under a company and run this business to keep married life afloat in future.

So to anyone who wants go their own way, make sure you've got a very good reason why and not just because you don't like your boss or your colleagues. If you want to work on your own, make sure it's of a higher calling like quality, exploration, experimentation, improvisation or just a time to break off from working as an employee for 10 odd years and it's time to do your own thing.

So let the questions, answers, discussions of this business get going once again.

This post has been edited by etsuko: Oct 11 2013, 12:35 AM

1. yes.. I prepare proposals for clients by request.
2. well, through experience so far, I find that if we ourselves host our clients we've less headache which makes things more manageable for us as well as the client.
3. so far no client has asked us to do that but if it does happen, migrating a website shouldn't be any problem. just that when the other company needs the source files (Code, PSD, FLA..etc) the client will have to purchase it from us.

we're not currently accepting anyone else in the team but if you think you can change our mind, show us your portfolio. oh yeah, on an important note.. if you're working just for money, don't waste time asking us to hire you. LoL!

Yup, few months ago. Well, I'm glad our persuasion of 'websites with value' have reached few people.

Just few days ago a guy from Dubai called and asked if we did courier tracking systems along with the website. I answered honestly and said nope, we don't have that kinda expertise as of yet. Why? Because we really haven't done such a thing and I myself don't even know how does the DHL/UPS system work. I pondered over the idea of it. However, if anyone knows of a company that does this stuff do PM me so I can inform the person.

The team is still bashing each other up (with air filled hammers) trying to decide what's a proper name for the business. Websites Made Simple is a name I made up in belief of the working principles our company should be based on. Anyway, .com has already been taken so we're cracking each others heads at the moment coming up with a more suitable name to register a .com

I forgot to say this, www.dannyfoo.com actually has been revamped to a more company type website but it's BETA. LOL!

What matters in hosting to me is reliability, support, service and speed. I prefer paying a lil more to someone who's been in the gig longer than a cheaper buy because the website is your access to potential clients and if it goes down or has too many problems, you're causing an equal amount of headache to what you've purchased.

This post has been edited by etsuko: Apr 6 2006, 04:51 PM

jensen, understood and you can always find an honest review from me.
There's a trend of companies looking to hire website designers or the popular one today is graphic designers come website designers - which in my opinion is stupid. So in other words, finding a job would depend when you graduate and how hardworking you are in trying to look for a job. A portfolio website will get you lucky sometimes - I landed my internship through that way.

Other than a website, you could send out a friendly email and resume with a link to your portfolio to companies in the web business. There are a numerous number of them and some of them don't really use Jobstreet. The other places you could check out from time to time bout vacancies in the design industry is at www.doxob.com.

The other part about defining the toughness of this career is that you'll need more than passion but patience to survive it. Being the asian culture, some bosses or superiors expect their colleagues to work overtime and the worst part if there's no replacement for the work done either in payment or a leave. Also, be expected to make lots of changes to clients work because the boss tries to please everyone - part of asian culture maybe.

The industry when working also demands you to be able to work quick and that sometimes kinda kills your creativity because you aren't given much freedom to come up with a conceptual design/solution. I think in terms of salary the industry is quite fair nowadays but there are stingy companies.

So if you're going to have to work for someone someday.. you'll need skills, dedication, lots of patience, passion (to keep on believing in yourself and what you love to do) and a little less sleep depending if the company concentrates more on advertising - tend to be the most hectic. Providence the member has more experience in this side.

Well, that's basically the hardships I went through when working.

This post has been edited by etsuko: Apr 7 2006, 08:24 AM

i got enquiries from LY, the website, referrals from family and friends so far. nothing really out of the norm.

however, i'm coming up with ways for us to get more clients or at least create an awareness of our existence to our targeted markets.

speaking of targeted market.. have any of you freelancers realized or have a targeted market for yourself..? or do you do just what comes your way..?

educational sutff is definetely still lacking around the globe.. especially good ones in malaysia that the parents know they're paying what they're getting. your Azimat game is a good start so I say keep on doing edutainment.

well, in terms of violence.. i dun think there needs to be total gore just to teach a lesson to kids. besides, it might give them nightmares if they were too young.

on the other hand, violence already exists today not because of games but because of other psychological resons involved.

anyway, the Awang game is based on simple content but just needs a meaning to them. and imagine, if all goes well the government might implement it or you could sell the idea via some company.

well, i hope you'll be able to expand the game further.. and if you need help, just ask for some around. we'll gladly share ideas with you so that you could choose a story to resemble Awang.

not to mention it'll be a big addition to your portfolio later. there be lie your passion.

Why do you think the average number of clients in Malaysia don't really respect malaysian website designers unless you're an agency with several awards ? (Kancil and what not..?)

Is it our culture? Our upbringing? Our mentality? Or something else you've found?

thanks for relating your stories. i hope the others will too as well. as for the middleman scenario, trust me that there are many like that in Malaysia. the ones in Malaysia especially are the ones who will always expect a fee from a referral. in Malaysia, it's like there's nothing other than money. it's like everyone is living in poverty.

Lol! Good note there.

I think as far as clients degrading you and value in price just because you use pirated software is just unprofessional and immature. it's like a kid finding whatever weakness or loophole to get their parents to do something for them.

i still think this is something immature, unprofessional and unappreciated to do to someone just because the person is a student and doesn't have a team of 20-30 backing him.

if a high school kid showed me he has skills in 3D that was at the level of an experience designer in Malaysia, disregarding he's a student or used some pirated software to do it, i'll still pay him the amount I think his skills are worth. it might not be as much as a paid employee but definetely more than what he'd think he'd get.

then from there, it's up to the student to decide whether he should charge the clients about the same or allow them to push him around just cause he's a 'small fry'.

well, have you tried asking an australian or american or even some japanese/thailand/india person what they'd think about such a scenario of a student who's got the skills of an experienced employee.

humiliating is one thing.. trying to degrade a student who's better than an employee is just plain hilarious.

I'd like us to discuss regarding Some Malaysians are Shameless especlially since it happened in our own forums.

Sigh, too bad the last post of that thread was edited though.

lol..

well, we could discuss the thing about email newsletters..?

will it be replaced because its considered spam..? will RSS replace newsletters..?

very strong points indeed momochi.

RSS was never a tool explained to anyone when they learned how to surf the website hence the prefered utilization of reading email newsletters that's much texting.

true.. maybe it'll come a day emails can be read like RSS feeds. all you need is the headline or an excerpt of the summarize form for the email.

come to think of it.. i wonder if there could ever be change because online consumers are increasing but yet they feel they should subscribe to the newsletter for future updates.

i wonder if we provided an RSS and newsletter function together, which will be the most utilized by these online consumers. hmm..

1. I don't really get what you're trying to ask. but i guess if you're talking about design then all clients require a different type of feel or theme for their website most of the time. that's one of the reasons pre-made templates suXor.

2. Opportunities to be commissioned in designing a website comes from referrals and people who've like what you did and why you do it the way yo do. I've had some people approaching me just to design website templates but many turned me down due to the cost I charge.

3. Just to design website templates as a job? Nope. You won't be able to make a living like that unless of course you plan to do a side business selling them on Template Monster or something.

4. Hmm, I actually shouldn't be telling you this but since I've been frank with the community. Minimum is RM500 just for the design without the work file. But you have to consider the price based on experience, skillset, occupation and etc. Always do business honestly.

5. It depends on the client because deadlines can affect prices. But I think most of the time I take about 2 weeks or less depending on my design level aura.

6. Depends on the client again. Some don't have the money to afford a CMS and some prefer having someone update things for them.

7. I've got an in-house programmer for myself.

8. Urm, I think the marketing skill because you'll have to put up with some of the bs clients request or want from you. However, if business aside, minimum skills you need today are HTML, CSS, Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and extra stuff if you can learn them.

9. Luckily for me it's been at least 1 request a month. But I'm hoping to increase to at least 4 in the future.

10. Don't get what you're asking here as well. If you're asking us as a client how fast do we want things done, well.. i think website templates shouldn't take longer than 2 weeks max. Development 3 weeks max.

This post has been edited by etsuko: May 16 2006, 11:57 AM

Urm, we can't compare the prices freelancers/agencies obtain in the UK in comparison to Malaysia? why? think of the other prices involved in their culture. food, internet, water, electric and etc. ours isn't as high as theirs.

hmm.. wmsy looks new to me. neva stumbled on it. looks to be a side project by an agency called MowForMedia. well, it'll be interesting to follow and see how they come up to the websites promoting standards later.

well, think about these things when considering the price:
- size of team/company
- experience (years in the industry and technology being used)
- post and after sales service
- your own budget

yup, and the only way to educate most clients is go up to them and tell them, "your website is dying because you're stupid so learn about the standards today and get a new foot in the industry before you lose a leg."

This post has been edited by etsuko: May 24 2006, 10:41 AM

Oh, that'll be hard.

All of the supporters of these movements would need to carry a stamp or hammer to knock those other fellows in this field on the head and cane them until they've repented for their sins.

But I think the biggest problem is that we've too many unhappy employees and all of em are just too money hungry to be in this field. loL!

I'm going to explain this issue as shortly as I can.

Firstly there are 2 main types of companies in this business:
1. The ones who do it for the love and quality.
2. The ones who do it for the easy money and large market of bimbo clients.

Now, Type 1 is as picky as the client when it comes to a design and etc for their website. They look at the client's website as more than just an online presence and try to help the client take it further.

Type 2 aren't as picky and are most likely the ones who'll buy and learn the Fusion 9 software while selling their services to clients. They want the easy money and they know that there are lots of bimbo clients. So, they make more money.

However, if the client ever hears what their website lacking from a friend who hired a Type 1 then Type 2 won't have hope for future jobs from the clients friends aka referrals. So what does Type 2 do? Prey on the other bimbo clients still available.

If you still don't understand why do clients pay me more than RM4000 to develop their website, let me try to tell you why though I should kill anyone who reads this after as its part of companyies secrets.

1. Consultation to discuss with clients the strategy involved for their website.
2. Customized design based on the clients & their customers requirements.
3. Development that supports website standards. (I couldn't find any part of Fusion 9 talking about website standards)
4. Customized system based on the clients website. (if u offer too much freedom, they'll ruin the strategy)

Each company in Type 1 or agencies like XM, XiMnet, NetInfinium, Arachnid, (if) Interactive and etc charge clients a pricey fee not because they'd like to but because they have to.

If you're a doctor, do you charge patients only RM10 every time they see you? No, right? Why? Because you feel that your life is worth more than money and more than a website?

Your website is your company which is also your baby or your boss's baby if you're the one liasing. You care for your baby as much as your life and you want the best for it although you know you don't want to spend too much or you'll make both of you die at the same time.

The reason why I charge my clients RM4000+ is because I value their website like it's my baby or my life. I value their customers as much as they do. I commit to their website so much that the clients sometimes don't understand what we do for them.

The other reason why agencies can charge some clients especially MNCs RM10k-100k for 1 project is because it's part of a marketing campaign. It's a huge package thrown in.

So tell me, does Fusion 9 or any of these owners of Fusion 9 do all this for clients?

or are they all just Type 2 companies?

This post has been edited by etsuko: Jun 16 2006, 12:24 AM