interesting perception...
Ramjade are the ASX FP funds Halal? or know of any syariah compliance UT funds that can make > bank's interest?

interesting to read kengyan and cybermaster98.

one is saying we must not borrow money to invest and the other say must borrow to invest, rely on savings alone sampai tua cannot be rich.

The latter may not apply if you earn very high income. You can rely on savings alone, and then use own savings to make a fortune, no need bank loan.

Fact is , in any investment there is risk. the higher the return, the more risk you take. otherwise bank can go invest there direct, why lend us money to invest and bank take a small portion from our profit.

I am of kengyan's type. i do not like the idea of borrowing money to invest.
Borrow as much as possible would be worse, unless u really have good reason for it.

take bank loans for established business to expand is easier to accept.
Having no savings, take loan to start a new business is not the same already.

i would say most of us are not "savvy investors", so taking a loan to invest is not good for most.

if you dont have good savings, only wanna rely on other people's money or bank loans to make a fortune, you are the exception rather than the rule.
How many managed to do it that way?

AFAIK, they are not halal. But if I am not mistaken 70% of it is already syariah compliant. Why suddenly tagged me?

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jun 23 2016, 09:56 AM

Why tag you? Bcos you know alot abt ASX Than many people n most importantly you are in lyn most of the time. Is syariah uts funds halal? They got tis gambling element as posted earler? And do they hv better returns than bank"s interest?

You may have misunderstood me. The only loans I take to invest are housing loans. I don't take personal loans, SME loans, etc to invest.

And no I did not say we MUST borrow to invest and if we rely on savings alone cannot be rich. I also did not say don't have savings. I said make your savings work for you.

Allow me to break down the bulk of my NAV portfolio for you:

ASB - 22%
EPF - 27%
Property - 42%
Others - 9%

And for those who still do not understand the meaning of NAV, this is the % when converted to cash minus all liabilities / debt. This however does not include investments in my company (side income besides my day job), cash value of insurances, smaller assets and cash reserves in savings.

The 42% for property is based on actual transacted market prices less 15% buffer after deduction of all outstanding housing loans (most of which are being paid using the rentals yield of each property anyway).

You will note that I maintain a healthy 'secondary cash reserve' in ASB which I have access to within 24 hours should the need arise. But at the same time it generates about 7.5% return per annum.

In short, except for a small primary emergency fund in my savings account, everything else is generating a return for me. I believe that our money should always be working for us not sitting idle as 'savings'. But to do that, i'm constantly evaluating risks, adjusting my investment portfolios and looking at new opportunities.

If you know me in real life, you would know that im quite risk averse but that doesn't mean I don't take risks and that surely doesn't mean I gamble.

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Jun 23 2016, 10:23 AM

I don't know why you bother to explain so much to someone who clearly is not going to accept a different way of looking at things

It's like trying to explain the cons of capital protected/guaranteed investments to most people. Waste saliva

Here we go again. Btw the capital protected/guaranteed investments is always "kuota penuh" and in huge demand whenever there available(snap up quickly) = majority of chinese people still favour it despite what you say.

Gamble again? That's like your catch word to defend yourself. You use words like gamble then u assume the worse case scenario that our income is only sufficient for day to day spending.

And only a fool would say that we can borrow money only if we're at Warren Buffet's level. How do u think WB got to his level? By not taking loans?

And all these statements coming from a guy who claimed that he has a NAV of 20mil?

FYI, my current outstanding housing loans are at RM1.4 mil yet 42% of my overall NAV is from property. Why don't you work out what kind of income level does one need to be at in order to obtain RM1.4mil worth of loans? Then maybe ull be able to work out if the income is only sufficient for day to day expenditure.

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Jun 23 2016, 02:53 PM

Im just baffled how a person who doesn't even know what is NAV (let alone calculate it) can argue with me utilising nothing tangible or fact based.

Nah, I'm not even talking about your fav ASx fixed priced fund. If you, or anyone else vested, bother to read their master prospectus, you would have read that the prospectus clearly states that the fund value is not in anyway guaranteed. Of course you could argue the fund price does not change; but if ever the sh*t hits the fan, the truth is BSN, Bank Rakyat, PTPTN and Tabung Haji depositors have a bigger chance of recovering their money than ASx funds....

But I was told it's not going to happen wor

Now, for the benefit of the rest (although I seriously doubt anyone would change their mind by just reading what I write) what I'm talking about are those insurance savings plan; or those structured product with 95% capital protected etc. If you study those products, the likelihood of your earning significantly higher than FD interest is close to none. The concept is simple, in order to guarantee/protect your capital, the risk that can be taken has to be limited, and therefore there would be limited upside as well.

So if like that, with a long investment timeframe, why don't I accept some risk and create a diversified portfolio which would unlikely return me less than 100% of my capital and yet have a lot higher chance of getting higher returns. Yes, I may lose money on foreign equities, but I should make some money off local equities and bonds or vice versa

Asx is part of PNB which is part of Khazanah which is like a money making machine. So you know I know.

Agreed with you on the insurance savings plan/those structured product. Usually it is because agents will show some kind of fancy graph, sweet talk people and BAM! they got their client who thought that they can get more than FD. The thing is how many know the actual returns? People are blinded by huge no presented on the graph without considering that one can achieved the same thing via FDs. Greed plays a part here too. Not to mention those unker/aunties who don't visit LYN.

Second would be that there are people who have no discipline to save. See money in bank account, hands become itchy must spend/eat at fancy places. End of the month, no money (so many of my friends). So to ensure some kind of savings, they sign a contract so that a portion of the salary is deducted every month automatically (which can be done manually into other investment stuff).

Third would be because of friendship/families ties. Don't want to hurt the person's feeling. So ok. Sign up for it.

That's all I can think off.

Thanks, this is a strategy I'll look into.
Thanks, I've never really looked at a property purchase this way. This explanation really helps.

all income should goes to pay/acquire asset (FD, business) such that the assets can generate passive income to pay for all expenses/debt.

This cycle should be automated until passive income exceed all expenses, where you achieve financial freedom on paper.

That's all is needed for the so called Personal Financial Management.

googled and found this...which implies.....
What is 'Personal Finance'
Personal finance defines all financial decisions and activities of an individual or household, including budgeting, insurance, mortgage planning, savings and retirement planning.
Among the most important aspects of personal finance are:
Assessing your current financial position - looking at expected cash flow, current savings, etc.
Buying insurance to protect yourself from risk and making sure your material standing is secure
Calculating and filing taxes
Savings and investment
Retirement planning
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/person...p#ixzz4CRm8G6Db

Personal finance is the financial management which an individual or a family unit performs to budget, save, and spend monetary resources over time, taking into account various financial risks and future life events.[1] When planning personal finances, the individual would consider the suitability to his or her needs of a range of banking products (checking, savings accounts, credit cards and consumer loans) or investment private equity, (stock market, bonds, mutual funds) and insurance (life insurance, health insurance, disability insurance) products or participation and monitoring of individual- or employer-sponsored retirement plans, social security benefits, and income tax management.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_finance

......Use of the principles and techniques of corporate finance in an individual's money affairs, especially the methods of allocation of financial resources. Its objective is financial security and independence so that an individual or a family can meet expected expenses and withstand monetary emergencies. It involves making prudent financial decisions, budgeting, saving, investing, insurance, tax planning, retirement planning, and estate planning.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definiti...l#ixzz4CRnI7iSw

never mentioned "passive income" stuffs like that....

This post has been edited by T231H: Jun 24 2016, 07:17 AM

This is the ultimate aim of everybody

Just wondering have you achieved your financial freedom ? What is your vehicles to generate passive income ?

some like it complicated, others like it simple, to each its own.

How about yours specifically ?

on paper yes, but then this is life, there is always unexpected things that we need to buffer against.

keep your expenses low, once your income generating asset exceed your expense generating liability are all covered, you would never need to learn about personal finances.

for every liability you need to acquire, you need to find an asset to cover for it. thumb of rules always work for those who knows how to apply it.

free advice are not specific, and not accountable.

use it on own digression, disagree if u like.

Good way of saying "fxxk off, I won't share with you"