http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013...r-openings.aspx


PETALING JAYA: Jobseekers, especially fresh graduates, are feeling the heat from the softening job market.


The extended retirement age, higher operational costs coupled with lower revenue and an uncertain world economy are reasons behind the drop, according to Malaysian Employers Federation’s (MEF) executive director Shamsuddin Bardan.

He said the number of job vacancies registered by employers in June 2013 dropped by 35.7% to 107,796 compared with 167,968 vacancies at the same time last year, citing statistics from Jobs Malaysia, an online job matching service under the Human Resource Ministry.

Shamsuddin said jobseekers were competing for fewer openings as about 915,000 private sector employees had been retained in the workforce for the next five years with the extension of the retirement age from 55 to 60 after the Minimum Retirement Age Act 2012 came into force on July 1.

“Many employers also prefer to adopt a ‘wait and see’ attitude because of the uncertain world economy. They are also bracing themselves for the full impact of the minimum wage policy in January,” he said.

Shamsuddin said companies, which faced higher operating costs and earning lower revenues, had stopped hiring as one of their cost-cutting measures.

“Some employers are already offering the voluntary separation scheme (VSS) and other packages for employees to leave, so the likelihood of them taking in fresh graduates is very slim,” he said, adding that the current unemployment rate was only about 3%.

Some 180,000 fresh graduates enter the labour market yearly, after most public university convocations are held in September and October.

Manpower Malaysia country manager Sam Haggag said multi-national companies (MNCs) were restructuring and rationalising their permanent headcounts in anticipation of what was expected to come.

“Companies are managing costs. Hiring is on hold for most jobs except in senior technical positions and niche areas like biosciences and R&D. Some companies are letting their employees go and those that are hiring, are doing so on contract basis,” he said.

Federation of Malaysian Manufacturers (FMM) president Tan Sri Yong Poh Kon said electrical and electronics (E&E) companies might have undertaken cost cutting measures to sustain operations.

“To cope with slower demand from major external markets, companies have stopped hiring new staff or put filling up vacancies on hold. The softening of the job market could be due to the RM4.99bil drop in export demand from January to June this year.

“Also, the higher retirement age raised in July means a reduction in new intake,” he added.

On the lower ranking positions, he said many companies could be stabilising their workforce by requiring “more multi-skilling and multi-tasking” workers because of the challenging business environment. The FMM represents 2,678 members.

MyStarJob Network Sdn Bhd head Serm Teck Choon said there was a “definite drop” in vacancies and that the job market had not picked up since January.

“Pre-GE13, the job market was slow because companies adopted a wait-and-see attitude but post election, vacancies are still on the decline.

“The feedback from my online job portal, print media and headhunter networks is that there are fewer jobs out there,” he said.

So difficult to get job meh???

Some fresh graduate ask come for interview also never bother or never turn out.

serow lah ts
/kolos

edit: theres already a thread in kopitiam

This post has been edited by crazydiner: Oct 14 2013, 08:50 PM

Kopitiam thread is means for non-serious comments.....whereas this thread is for non-crappy comment.

This star is talking crap la.
Now is October ya know? It is off peak period. No surprise there is drop in job vacancies.

I so far got two job offers. Still ok what.

Stupid star got no statistical evidence, simply go and say it is due to the increase in retirement age. So unprofessional this star journalists. If you see UK newspaper all their titles are backed by statistics.

Can share what type of job and the level of the position??

Higher exec to managerial.

Thanks...In between, Dow Jones and Bursa Index are still doing fine, no clear indication economy are slowing down...

i am still unemployed 3 months after graduation,but i dont blame it on the soft job market.i blame it my ''not so good persuasion skills '' to promote myself to prospective employers

i've been jobless for 8 months now

what have you been doing for the past 8 months?

leeching off parents, having fun with KL life.. what else could you ask more?

But if USA defaults no thanks to the brainless Republicans at Congress, things could get much worse.

Don't mind me to ask what are your qualifications? prefer industry?

Go to bookshop and grab some books that teach you to write better CVs and conduct better interviews.

I have heard brilliant 4As STPM and UM accountancy grads can't get into Big 4 audit firms even though they got excellent CPGA and grades because they were not expressive and creative enough during interview.

i think my CV is ok.just maybe i need to improve on my interview skills.
anyways thanks for your tips

There are books on interviews tips and common questions...

Preparation and Self Rehearsal helps

just make sure u r not ranting as this TS -> https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2727624

I've actually heard stories that one of the Big 4 actually separate their CV's into Local and Foreign Uni's and they only consider those from Foreign Universities. Not sure how true is that though

Not necessarily, I've seen PWC hire people from Unitar, ACCA undergraduates and other local unis, but they also like Australian grads, maybe they feel that these people are able to express themselves better.

Source: http://www.malaysiandigest.com/top-news/46...-graduated.html

This is a report done by Malaysiandigest on this matter


UNIVERSITY graduates are forever going to get the short end of the stick.


If they thought years of tertiary education was tough on their brain and financial resources, when they graduate - things are about to get worse.

Because they are not going to get employed. Well, at least most of them aren’t.

Every year, some 180,000 fresh graduates enter the labour market, and for most of these graduates, they will be left standing with their scrolls firmly in their hand and mouths agape, because employers everywhere aren’t interested in hiring.

A recent revelation by the Malaysian Employers Federation (MEF) revealed that the number of job vacancies registered by employers in June 2013 dropped by 35.7% to 107,796 compared with 167,968 vacancies at the same time last year.

According MEF there are fewer openings now because about 915,000 private sector employees had been retained in the workforce for the next five years.

With the slowing down of the world economy that triggered a significant drop in exports, manufacturing companies for example, are taking austerity measures in managing costs, so they either respond by letting go of their existing staff or have entirely stopped hiring new ones.

Fresh out-of-the university graduates are sidelined because companies are no longer interested in training them and instead favour experienced manpower.

Last week, we reported that the number of unemployed persons, as of July 2013 is at 3 per cent, according to Department of Statistics Malaysia.

Although economically it places our country at zero unemployment, we only need to take a look beyond the official numbers to see that there are actually 421,200 people out there who are not working – out of which, a small chunk is new graduates.

Why shouldn’t our new graduates be competitive in the labour market? What’s missing?

Malaysian Digest looks deeper into some of the root cause for the lack of competitiveness and desirability of fresh graduates in Malaysia.

Though different companies look for different criterias in their candidates, these companies do share one common criterion – all of them start their evaluation by going through the candidate’s resume.

So how do our graduates fare?

"It all depends on the (respective) professions but coming from the legal profession, I first look at the results (of various achievements) from their resume, and then I look into how they speak. The business that we’re in, the language commonly used is English.

“So (fluency of the English) language is very important," the managing partner of Naqiz and Partners, Syed Naqis Shahabuddin, explains.

According to Syed, his company over the years had developed a unique methodology on how they evaluate their candidates by going through their resumes.

"Our firm has grown (through the years), (today) consisting of 30 lawyers in Kuala Lumpur and 10 lawyers based in Jakarta.

“We are also listed in directories of top-tier firms. So now we can afford to be choosier.

“(We went) from accepting graduates (who scores an) under a 3-point CGPA (result) to only recruiting those who are 3-point scorers and above,” added Syed.

Syed also said that besides judging candidates on their examination results, he also judges them on their personality traits and saw that self-confidence in new graduates does not score very high.

"Our graduates seem to be lacking in confidence.”

Errors and mistakes in resumes are also apparent with new graduates.

“And in our field, first impressions are important. There are no shortcuts to success but these graduates need to relook at their resumes before submitting it.

“Grammatical errors are (not tolerated). Prepare a decent photo of yourself and dress to impress during the interview," is Syed’s blunt advice to job-hunters out there.

Sharing his personal experience, Syed told us of a particular bad interview session where he had to abruptly leave the room.

"I once had a candidate who was a graduate. He came to the interview like he was in a great hurry. He also brought his bike with him, was improperly dressed and sweating profusely. He was so smelly that I couldn't stand it any further and left,” said Syed, with hints of a quiet laughter.

Syed then goes back into serious mode.

"Fresh graduates are a waste of money. You train them (only to see them) leaving (the job) anyway. The women, meanwhile, they (may either) end up as housewives, migrate, or even leave to open up a business.

“However, there is always room for (new grads). They would have to start from the bottom such as formatting and researching," said Syed.


........

The report so long ma....


Read more: http://www.malaysiandigest.com/top-news/46...-graduated.html

so basically, based on report, resume is very important.
first impression ma...need to invest more on resume...

I think people are more picky about their job, rather then drop of vacancies in the market :/

But based on the report, its not the fres grad yg picky, it is the employer..
But I strongly believe that the most important skill all employee should have right now is fast learner.
It is normal to have job out of what we learn from uni.
That is why we have to learn fast on the work scope,culture, operation and so on.
Me myself as a fresh grad back 6 years ago...don't have experience...still ting tong..but if we adapt quickly, bos baru pandang maa....

same here, unable to find jobs or atleast get an interview...but found my weakness, but a question, does taking certain certificate increase chance of getting hired and later higher pay?..cause some certificate about 12 months.Plan to take training program later if couldn't find any job.
Not picky btw..

This post has been edited by wokies: Oct 16 2013, 10:58 AM

wokies,
If you happen to have jobstreet account, why not you try to subscribe to Priority Application. Cost some money (around rm100 and valid up to 6months), but it do working in getting interviews. My last 2 job is via Priority Application. Recommended!

yes..almots all jobs are applied thorugh jobstreet. found about priority application, but didn't find someone using it, thanks you..i'll consider it, no money right now, prefer applying shrdc at shah alam, get allowance later find jobs slowly again..thanks..

welcome. good luck to you. job banyak sebenarnya...but as Malaysiandigest report, improvise resume made a good first impression, nailed it with confidence..should landed you a job...

giving pressure to those fresh grad

The gen Y these days. Just graduate, asking RM3k.

Goodness.

i would pay my fresh grads rm3k, they cost the same as burger flippers in the US, msians are generally hardworking and responsible or at least those i had met...

one big problem from what i encounter is the flooding of all these so called paper holders, product of paper mills... especially uitm

Not really sure, but I think the appeal from foreign grads is perhaps their English. But I heard that PwC hires a lot of local grads though. As long as you have a good command in English, I don't think you would have a problem.

Here is a typical scenario:

1. Company needs employees, hires a recruiter to act as a filter and to present resume's that are deemed related and up to the mark.

2. Recruiter advertises and receives resume's. 90% of resume's are poorly written (grammar, English Language, Poor writing skills, Poor formatting skills, are some of the reasons why 90% of the resume's get trashed)

3. Recruiter presents the 10% to the employer, and employer rejects another 5%-7%. Only 3% gets an interview and 1-2 people get hired.

4. The question here is how do you impress the gate keeper. Getting a job is sales, a numbers game. The more interview you go for, the better your chances are in securing a job.

5. So its vital that you get your resume in order. It is true in Q4 job market will slow down, its only natural. Question is what are you doing to prepare for Q1 2014?

6. Read journals.. understand recruiters review the resume only for 6 seconds and which sections do they look at? do you have those sections in your resume? If yes, how strong is it?

7. Is your resume bold? Is your resume captivating? Is your resume wimpy? Is your resume nerdy? Is your resume conveying the message that you are an accomplished graduate who is skilled in XYZ who can help the organization in ABC.

8. A very important tip, when speaking of features, for instance, I am an excellent negotiator.. add the word 'so' after that sentence, so you are forced to think and come up with a benefit statement. A company dont care what you are good at, unless it helps them be better.. Sad but true

9. We are also looking for employees, but now its for sales as we are planning to expand the business further. It is a sales related position, and we offer basic + Commission + Sales incentive + Phone allowance. If you are keen to find out more, you can check us out at **www.globe-resume.com/bde**

I know Big Four pay slightly higher for ACCA graduate....but no sure about whether they prefer local graduate or foreign graduate.

My former Form 5 classmate is the UM graduate and he is one of the EY partner now.

if you're a fresh grad and you want to get into advisory, they usually take in foreign grads especially Pwc. For audit, not so much, semua pun boleh.

If yr from local uni yr chances are already slim. If your from islamic uni yr chances are close to nil. Talking about private sector. Thier quality is rubbish esp uitm. Good for nothings. End up all either in gov or become ulamas. If not become mat rempits. Should shut down uitm

If they stereotype lidat. Kesian those really good ones who just happen studies in UITM. Lol

Im from a local Uni and things aint that bad, i guess.

I'll take jobstreet as an example.

During past few years, whenever you apply for an IT job, normally max you will only saw 40-50 applicants.

Now, i can easily spotted a job with >150 applicants

Yes. Like it or not reputations counts a whole lot. That is why unis are striving to get top ranking by improving quality of teaching and hence have better grads. Except the local msian unis who care more about race than quality affecting their grads. If you compare a NUS grad and a local grad, the std are so huge apart. That is why NUS is one of the top uni while local msian unis are not.

Yes, I do understand that the University that we graduated from does carry some weightage when the HR person is trying to select candidates from the many applications they normally get. However, they as HR personnel should know best to not stereotype, cause they would be missing out on alot.

This post has been edited by crystalfenix: Oct 17 2013, 02:34 PM

They are not worth 3k lah. No matter what. I have seen quality of the grad work (always need guidance), they are not even at par with RM2.3k leave alone 3k.

You cannot compare to bigger flippers in the US. If you want to compare then our exchange rate should be RM1 to USD1.

Why should they take the risk? Majority are not worth the time. And once hired they cannot sack. So they are stuck. Might as well take a better one even if they have to pay more.

Like it or not, sterotype does exist and in fact commonly exist. Some of us called that "X" factor. My former boss hardly take in any fat employee.

Ulama are highly respected Muslim scholars. What you wrote down about Ulama is very offensive to the Muslims.

well.. if u pay 2.3k u get 2.3k quality... i rather pay 3k and keep them happy..

I suppose that's why the talented ones don't wanna come back to Malaysia. Just being a full time assistant to a professor earns at least 2k pm USD there. And 40k pa is the lowest I can imagine as an international hire. And since most end up in consulting, big tech firms or FIs, they see 70k pa and above.

And well, most people only know Harvard MIT Oxford and Cambridge. So there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of advantage if someone is a foreign grad either.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Oct 18 2013, 09:17 AM

But i seen many PWC grad getting 2.4-2.8k but quality of work like 1.3k.

-

This post has been edited by UnknownDave: Mar 19 2015, 12:13 PM

ya... times are tough

i wonder what u get from bn job fairs

35% went to work oversea

For a chance to work with PWC's advisory team, I won't mind 2.4-2.8 at all. Hope those people leave and take other makan gaji job so there's some room for me

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Oct 18 2013, 10:31 PM

that's your perception... companies have a responsibility and duty to pay a respectable wage and provide sufficient support for their employees to grow

well, on the long term, a good coy will not stinge on the wage even if supply for employees is widely avail

also you compete on cost, increase you competencies instead...

You must be one of those PWC joker grads who ask for 2.5k a month?

Depends. If the newer gen got attitude like yours, not humble, think they are too dam good, I won't hire people like you.

Come interview, listen to the way you talk, interviewers also don't want to hire, Gen Y like you, can talk back one.

I just got to wonder how does their PWC audit assistants ever justify asking for RM2.5k when they bug their client non-stop. Its like this their client is busy doing the closing, and 4 audit assistants line up literally in a row, first one come and bug you, tell you to prepare this and that schedule, second one come ask you to get this and that schedule...until the 4th one. If a person is paid RM2.5k starting pay, one would expect one has enough logic thinking to give the client some space and time to prepare the stuff for them.

When I started work for Deloitte Kassim Chan my starting pay was only 1.6k. Now these people are asking between 2.5-3k, it is a joke.

Well as a fresh grad, my academic qualifications are kinda maxed out already. Companies aren't considering me for a job either because I don't have a corporate experience or they think psychology is a 'dumb' degree.

After 2 months of job hunting, I'm now applying for internships instead of full time positions.

So I don't really have much of a choice to compete on cost. If that doesn't work either I guess I've no choice but to return to research in US and real with the troublesome visa.

All your posts are unconstructive and constantly criticising and putting down people. Wonder why you do that. Not doing well at work and taking it out on the fresh graduates?

No. doing extremely well. The fella attack me first me, so i defend la. I saying only those pwc grad asking for 3k, but when they work, they expect client to prepare all the schedule for them, then ask us client about the technical stuff, repeat again same questions the audit assistant ask last year: don't auditors keep a record of this in their working papers? My time, we work with lower pay and we figure out how to do the work ourselves instead of asking other people for help. So you think it is fair or not when one gets 3k but don't deserve it. Why? Fresh grad butthurt is it?

you're so wrong.. it is the responsibilities of the client to provide the BS in good order... whatever lacking is either the accts dept is not up to par or the auditors are trying to find out more info which is actually good for the coy

the more time the client needs the more time the client got to pay, probably the accts dept would surely want more time, but the bosses would want the auditors to complete their job asap to meet regulatory req and also pay less $$$

well, that's you.. it depends on individual... if someone is from a respectable school with a certain competency as expected of a freshgrad, then i believe for today's price rm3k is reasonable

yeaps, you know your prob and both are right... should had considered before you undertake that course

are you a little too choosy?

Question guys,
Has the minimum salary enforced?

Or is it still in the process of 'fine-tuning'?

No they are not competent to receice 3k.

The financial statements are in good order. We provide the same every year, ok. Nowadays the gen Y auditors literally want the client to do everything for them. They ask you to prepare the schedule, then they ask us to find the supporting document for them, ensure I find more than 50% of the documentation. That is ridiculous ! They should go to the cupboard and do this themselves ! This is pure spoonfeeding.

My time at Deloitte, we prepare the schedules ourselves and we go look for the supporting. Thats why the client is so happy to have us around.

Another thing is that the audit assistants ask the same question every year. At least they can ask is, let say "Hi, from our working papers, we realise that every year according the accounting standards, you DR your Asset and DR your Accruals this way due to the specific of the industry, just want to confirm, do you still treat it this way in 2013?".

I be impress if the auditor ask like that. But what I get is this:,

"Why you Dr your Asset like this and then you credit your Accruals like that?"

It just show they not doing their homework and not refering back to previous year working papers. I have to waste my time to explain to them.

Also another thing is that the audit assistants are very QUIET. They don't like to mix with the client. We took them to a japanese restaurant, they order the most expensive stuff, then expecting them to mingle professionally (afterall they are paid RM3k becaus of their good professional attitude and skills), we find only the Audit Senior is the one who is proficient in conversing with us. When we try to break the ice with the audit assistants, they just gave a "one word" answer. I thought that best paid graduates tend to talk loudest because they want to stand out. Unfortunately, they are quiet people and this shows they not even worth RM3k a month even based on their ability to communicate with their clients.

Side question, so from your stories I gather that pwc hires terrible people. So is it much better to start a career in Deloitte compared to pwc or is it just the same now.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Oct 20 2013, 09:06 AM

i dont know whose job it is as i am not an auditor, but from what i see, it is the accts dept's job to provide everything as those details are supposed to be operational.. if you go to the cupboard the company still pays your salary, if they go to the cupboard, the company gets charge more

i think it is right for them to ask rather than assume.. every year is diff, every buss is diff.. their internal protocal might disallow them to refer previous years to maintain independent

i think you get the role of an auditor all wrong.. to prevent conflict of interest, they are not suppose to mingle with clients... only the relationship mgr is suppose to.. we dont want another arthur andeson.. that's why we have Sarbanes–Oxley Act

dont know bout pwc in msia, but in sg... it is tougher to enter as compared to the other big4

anyway, back to topic... fresh grads... i feel like msia is going to be like india/china/indo where they cant get a decent wage and the main prob i believe is the edu system and gov..

The 35% drop is a year-on-year percentage, right?

If that is the case, it means that the jobs just aren't available,
and not because it is always the case in this period.

I mean, if people were to say that it is normal in Oct to have less job vacancies, then the y-o-y % should not be different by that much.

Am I right ?

thanks for sharing, i would take note of these things should i manage to enter any big4/mid tier firms as a Audit/Tax Associate

isnt the starting pay in KL for big4 around $2,700?and i believe some up to $3,000 due to recent salary adjustment

your last point about communicating with clients, how are audit assistants suppose to communicate appropriately? learn some business tips from them? or ask them to share some of their wisdoms? is that appropriate?

I admit that I am not very good at initiating a conversation.usually, i need someone to start the flow.otherwise, i would stay quiet most of the time, and might interrupt once in a while, if the topics of conversation interests me. maybe this prevents big4/mid tier from hiring me

from what i know,audit firms charge engagement on a per hour basis (correct me if i am wrong)
yes its accounts dept job to provide a starting point in an audit engagement. however, i think if the auditors need further clarification on certain matters,they can ask the company for it right? unless the company decides to dilly-dally,rather than wasting precious time auditors can go to the cupboard and search for the info themselves.

previous years working papers can be used as a reference if there are no major changes in the company between current and previous years. in certain areas, auditors can use their professional judgement/assumption if it makes sense.if it doesn't then its better to clarify with the clients

from what i can remember,no where in the textbook for Auditing unit state that auditors cant mingle with the clients. it only states that auditors cant have too close relationship with the clients.if both the employees and the management of an audit firm is seen/perceived too close to the client then its a problem

BTW,Sarbanes Oxley Act focuses more on companies which have both auditing and non-auditing business (consultancy) with the same accounting firm

yeaps, further info then ask.. usually it is the accts dept that is reluctant.. why would the company waste time and get charged more

wat u mean by no major change? dormant company?

i mentioned 'not supposed' not 'cant'

if you read the whole act you will discover more... if u hear it from some1 else, of course you dont get the full info... the split due to conflict of interest is the result, not the purpose of the act

what i mean by no major change is the industry or business nature do not change?example from a plantation based to property based, that is a major change.but if its still plantation based company previous year and current year, that is what i mean by no major change

ok sorry for the misunderstanding

looks like i need to look at SOX Act deeper.thanks

I am not talking about interupting conversation. When the client give a lunch or dinner treat, they just trying to be nice, start the conversation like, so how is working for PWC so far? This particular bunch who came along, just gave a one word answer. I mean, where is the courtesy? I ask you, if your client takes you out for lunch, try to start a conversation with you, you just give one word answers, let your senior auditor do the rest of the PR job instead. Thats not learning from the trade. After all, in future you guys are going to be future managers, you guys gotta learn some PR, communicate with the clients. Thats not too much to ask for since you lot asking for RM3k.

I believe even RM2.7k is too high.

You don't get my point, do ya?

Actually I find that E&Y auditors does their audit work much better than PWC, they are trained not to ask questions that were already asked in previous years. Maybe its just the bunch that PWC sent in 2012 & 2013.

2010 & 2011 - senior auditor and bunch was ok
2012 - senior auditor sux, her assistance was asking silly questions (like telling the client to make photocopies of sales invoices when clearly we directed them to take it out from the file which was situated in a cupboard and do it themselves)
2013 - senior auditor was good but his audit asistants was anti-social (when try to strike a social conversation, they all kept to one word answer, but when treat them for dinner they wollup all the food, ordered the most expensive dishes - suppose too much food in their mnouth gua)

ok will take note of these things
try to learn a bit of PR as juniors
never ever give a 1 word answer, unless its a yes no question
try to be nice with the clients, as a matter of courtesy
lastly dont be too greedy, referring to your next posting about walloping food.

again talking about pay,big4 in other side of malaysia(sabah/sarawak) pays what you think is a ''fair value'' around 1.3k

1 reason i can think of why pay in KL is 2.7 to 3k is the job turnover rate is too high.

Not an auditor myself, but auditors do a paid service for shareholders.

Accounting departments are not the client. Auditors are hired in part to check the work of accounting departments.

If you're a non-managing owner/shareholder of a company, it makes sense that you would want your accounting department to fully comply with the requests of the 3rd party auditors. It doesn't make sense for auditors to prepare schedules, since it costs the company substantially more to have external auditors do the job of in-house accountants. It makes sense that you would not want the auditors to fraternize with accounting staff. After all, you're hiring them to check for irregularities not-otherwise identified by your own staff.

Its a matter of courtesy, if they can't mingle then they should reject the client's offer to take them for a dinner treat at the end of the audit job. But they attended anyway. Anyways, I been an auditor for quite some time, i felt it is ridiculous if one can't even have a friendly chat with the client. This reflects professionalism and ease the tension. Shows that the audit assistant is able to justify his worth (ie RM3k a month) by showing that he is not only capable of doing his job but also a good communicator. But so far i seen none of that.

I can understand if they stay quiet and let their senior talk when discussing about job matters but when client givees them a dinner treat, talks to them on a professional level, like asking them how they find their work? how is the travel to the client place? they prefer to give one word answers, and let their senior talk, just shows they don;t have what it takes.

Which is true these days in the corporate world. In my MNC days, the company hires management trainees as young as 21, and during their trainee qualification, they are not only required to be proficient with their work but they got to show they have good communication skills, able to rub shoulders with the colleagues. Truth to be said, I have personally seen some of the trainees failed in the case of communication and this particular MNC gave them low scores, force them to leave.

So to be fair, with pay of RM3k, they should show their worth.

By the way, Sarbanes Oxley Act is only applicable to American companies.

Another problem with audit assistants these days, is their level of proficiency at work. Asking client questions is one thing. But if they keep on coming back every 30 minutes and bombard client with questions, the client can't do their work. I don't see EY auditors doing this. At my time with another MNC, the EY auditors accumulated their questions in one go, and give you sufficient time to clear the issues. Unlike PWC, before I could even clear the issue, every 30 min an auditor will come to me and ask for this and that. Look, even you said you never done a job of an auditor, so I don't expect you to understand. There is no way you can prepare every schedule for the auditor, they are bound to have furtehr queries. I have clear their queries for 5 years and they keep asking for different things (besides the same old repeating questions tehy ask..which I have prepared beforehand). Also, I have my own work to do, I can't just freeze my work to wait for them.

You got to understand the client's job, when they close their accounts on 31 Dec..its like a given one or two months later, the auditor comes, I don't have so much time to prepare real time info for them. I got my other work to do, I got to report to regional office, do my analysis, close journals, do documentation, etc.

The trouble with auditors is that they don't understand the client sentiments. They think its all abotu them but they don't see that the client is busy with their own job too, the auditors tend to blame the client for not being efficient.

appreciate all the advice and information that you have shared about audit assistant these days in terms of how they do their work,socialising skills,etc.
these are important insights into the work of audit assistant these days from the client's point of view.and also how client perceive audit assistants these days

and I suppose Malaysia has its own version of Sarbanes Oxley Act

Poor Dharma123. That said, there is a few things I'd like to clarify as a current auditor.

a. Looking for documents - generally it is expected to be the client's role, although in Malaysia it has been such that the Malaysian auditors do it for them.
Why? Data security and privacy issues. In larger corporations like Exxon etc, the auditors do not have direct access to supporting documents, the accounts people is supposed to coordinate for them. This is also the same in cases like IBM, where documents are kept via shared service functions, and requested documents are provided only only on request. There is a genuine concern from the client end that they don't want a third party (what more an auditor) to go around digging through all the client's documents.

b. Preparing schedules - that's really a client's role. Again, due to lack of client competence locally, in the past this has been an auditor's 'scope'
Why is it a client's role? You must remember that the financial statement is prepared by the client. Meaning, the entire financial statements should come from the client, and then the auditor audits. So, schedules such as your workings for your classification in the notes to accounts, your liquidity risk workings etc. Everything should come from the client.

Again, because you've in the past been an auditor, and had your share of 'incompetent' clients, you've probably been led to believe that it's always the auditors role.

c. On asking questions - It's lack of tact from the part of the audit team in PwC. They should have asked questions one shot. That said, there's also the moment when the 30 questions are too overwhelming.

d. On networking - yes, that's genuinely lacking in staff these days. I actually blame smartphones. Everyone's too busy playing games on their phones. They aren't even talking to their teammates!

e. On salary.
As to whether Rm2.7k is too high.. personally, I'm quite neutral on this. If you benchmark against engineering or banking roles which pay higher, Rm2.7k is about right. But if you benchmark against McDs or whatnot, it is abit high. If you benchmark your med sized plc against their pay, their seem high. BUT, you should consider whether you've looked at the right bracket. Big 4 is like the top. If you're a midsized plc, your benchmark should then be with the mid-tier firms.

f. Also, you may want to think whether you're looking at it through rose tinted glasses. People tend to look back and say their past was better.

at the end of the job it is ok la, i too would bring my auditors to makan but not in the midst of their work... take the opportunity to claim from coy.. hahahaha, but over the duration of the audit, i wont talk to them unless needed..

well, irregardless of how much one is paid, i believe we should always do our best but come on... less than rm3k is really too little

yea, only in US, but i believe most countries would had adopted key concepts from it and implement it in their local context

hmm, my company have a few ex-auditors so our accts are always up to expectations.. no problem so far

well, if you got work to do then that's not their fault right? maybe you can talk to your HOD to provision some time for the audit?

i cant comment much... i am not from the finance line, heck what the hell do i know.. i work in a kitchen

neway, i believe rm3k is a reasonable pay for freshies...

Poor? I am rich. You speak for yourself, poor Gen Y auditor wanna be.

You just see everything from one side of the picture do you?

I have worked for Big 4 audit firm, shared service, MNC and SMEs. I know two sides of the coin.

You speak of client responsibility and lack of competence as if this task is so easy. As auditors is like football fans watching their favourite football team getting thrash by the rival, and after the match, you guys start thrash talking the manager and the squad, want to sack the manager, sell the ineffective players when you are not even on the field.

Have you ever have to run a finance team of 10 to 20 people? Its not easy. One day you'll see especially when you move to commercial. Hah, I hope you will experience it, you try to speak smart alec style but you'll get the karma. Locally listed companies are especially messy. When staff resign, it takes months to retrain a new staff, lost opportunity and the knowlesge is lost. That is why listed companies like to hire auditors because they think these people have full set experience. Have you ever joined a listed company and find yourself having to play catch up, do one year of bank reconciliation that was left behind by the previous staff. You have no help, nobody know how to do the work, just the bank statements, soft copy and the GL. In some circumstances, staff that work more than 20 years, leave the firm grudgingly, then refuse to pass down the knowledge to fellow colleagues. Then nobody there knows how to use the accounting software, it can be IFCa and even as big as SAP. Then your boss hire you, without telling you of the consequences, you wonder what crap you got yourself into.

It is not easy to keep a team of finance staff happy. Maybe past years, a company do well, pay bonus and increment, then one year the boss makes a wrong investment decision, the company start to make losses, the old staff leave, start hiring new green staff that not familiar with the industry and not know the background. Different industries got different accounting treatment. These knowledge are lost forever. It could be hedging techniques, commission calculation or even records of where the land titles or legal disputes were kept. Its all lost. Then you come in to clear the mess. Imagine what situation you are in, when the auditors come in, you're new, bombard you with questions, and you feel hopeless to help.

You may want to say that only i been through this situation, trust me almost every auditor who moves to commercial have experienced this. Even when I move in MNC with shared services, they got this headache as well. Sometimes when they want to migrate the work from factory to shared services, you'll face a lot of resistance. Lack of cooperation from factory finance staff because they want to protect their jobs.

You speak of client responsibility to prepare schedules as if it is so easy but you wait lah, perhaps karma will come to you when you intend to join commercial finance.

It is never easy to run a finance department. Even a shared service one. Staff turnover is high. In some companies, the notice period for resignation is only 1 month. By the time you get the new staff, the old staff would have left and no pass down of the job is done. Even for those with 2 months notice period is not enough, it takes you two weeks to arrange for job advertising, another 3 weeks for interview. Then 2 weeks for the new staff to arrive. > 2 months.

There are even some cases when grudging staff leave refusing to pass down their knowledge, it is all lost. Certain industry got different ways of accounting treatment and even accounting software and ERP are kept secret by long service staff.

So when auditors come, it is not surprising when your finance staff is unable to prepare all the schedules in time, because they don't know how.

Wow. Bro I wasn't saying its your fault wei. Why you sound so bitter? Im just telling you tht is how it is supposed to be and I acknowledge tht there is a huge gap between reality and expectation but seriously just because your company is shitty you wanna push the shit to your auditors? And say its their fault now? Why are we the scapegoat for the shit the company or your predecessor handed to you? And I still dont think im wrong about saying its not supposed to be the auditors role to dig for documents and prepare schedules. Just because u had thr tough luck of getting screwed by your clients in the past, why do you want to curse the future generations to follow your fate?

who in their sane of mind would do that? I myself graduate from oversea also have a hard time to find a job. Even giving the chance for interview is also not easy these days....

hai i want to know at what section in bookstore can i get one of those books? noob here sorry

Can check with the PIC of the MPH....

In between, there are two pinned thread in LYNs which talked about CV and interview preparation...should be useful for us.

Yes it is very easy for you to say that is is not suppose to be the auditor role to dig documents. But you are not in the client's shoes.

Its not just me, any job that you will go into next time, you will have to clear shiit. Yes, your predecessor won't be there to teach you how its done and there is a lot of shiit to clear. If there is no shiit, the company won't be bother to hire you. They hire you to solve shiit, that is what commercial job is about.

And don't be thinking that your co-workers will be helping you, guide you and teach you. This is not audit where the senior will provide you with the training. Once you are in commercial, you're on your own, you have to figure everything yourself. I don't like this situation as much as you will, but this is something most of us have to face.

Therefore, its not my tough luck, it is the tough luck that every auditor has to face when they make the transition from audit to commercial.

The thing is, audit firms like EY and BDO, they will dig for the information. I am especially impress with BDO, they are so independent, my boss likes them. Unlike PWC, they seem very spoonfed.

In my past 3 jobs, I have listen to finance bosses make this joke time and tme again, not to give the auditor too much info. Why? Because when you explain to them, they come back and ask more questions. Most of the time they don't understand at all, keep on asking questions. I was once an auditor, so it is understandable that auditors ask questions, because they are not in the shoes of the client doing the work. But to ask for 3k start pay, based on the knowledge thay have, i agree on this matter.

aiyo you can search it in the job section la.

from any of these schools?



http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/1...aphic-popup.jpg

discuss further;

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3004034

Don't know how it applies in here in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by chickenshit36: Oct 25 2013, 11:24 AM

Being on the commercial/client side before, I have to concur, except about EY BDO since I have not dealt with them before. There are tons of 'issues' in commercial, usually those 'sou jao xi' from previous or current seniors who are bound to be there for the rest of their life.

But what I do notice from some PWC auditors are that they are not educated on the 'client-dealing' front, ie EQ/IQ imbalance. Always ticking people off, have a high sense of entitlement with no regard or respect for the client.

This post has been edited by gloomberg: Nov 4 2013, 04:14 PM

The pwc auditors think they are the top tier, crem de la crem, so they think they entitled to ask any question. Schedule also have to do for them, no idea what they learn. That is why when commercial hire them,, they hire them to do corporate work.

Awesome! Corporate work sounds good to me.

Depends...if you do for our blady china man listed companies, could be quite boring.

Some may even be consol job.

Consol okay what.. What most people want after leaving audit is a 9 to 5 job rite. Tired of the hours.
(then after 1 year they complain about lack of progression)

Consol job very boring la. Have to chase subsi and assoc co for accounts. Bosses no appreciate you, hire you for sake of consol only. No future in conso job.

Then corporate job like raising equity or financing for your co also quite boring. Usually is those china man co who want to get access to these funds because their co no money. At first they give you good pay rise, after that your salary cannot increase, no increment.

Better go work for merchant bankers or RAM.

merchant banker or ram very good progression ka? I tot they oso quite messed up one.

Dunno lar, I never took this path. I went to do factory stuff instead.