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 Home Electrical MCB, How to size Miniature Circuit Breaker

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weikee
post Oct 10 2013, 02:24 PM

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Not many use ring circuit.
TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(Xccess @ Oct 10 2013, 01:39 PM)
Bro, a word of advice, please get the help of a certified electrician. I used to work as a electrician many years ago when I was much younger, even with a certain level of experience, I won't touch the electrical box let alone changing of ELCB and ECB.

Please take note there's live wire in it unless you shut off from the main electrical board outside your unit. Stay safe.
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Thanks for your advise, this thing cannot DIY, too dangerous, evenh though I know got to pull out the big black fuse from outside at the meter. There are just too many wires in the DB, once take out the MCB got to mark which pair in the circuit. And if cannot finish work in one day, whole house got no light. Fridge has to be empty otherwise foods go bad.
TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(shadowofevil @ Oct 10 2013, 01:44 PM)
Lighting Load
6-10A (cable use 1.5mm)

Power Load
20A -30A (cable radial or ring circuit)
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Thanks....but how this thing look like? What is cable radial or ring circuit?
weikee
post Oct 10 2013, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 03:50 PM)
Thanks....but how this thing look like? What is cable radial or ring circuit?
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You can't see it by visual inspection. Ring circuit is from MCB to socket/power point and back to MCB. This is good design circuit but not common practice here.
TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(Sydneguy @ Oct 10 2013, 12:44 AM)
1) The solution to this particular problem is to add more MCB and split some of the socket to the extra MCB.

2) As others have mentioned using 32A MCB with writing only meant for 10, 15 or 20A MCB will lead to fire when there is an overload.

3) fire you electrician and get one that gives good advice.
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Any electrician real good and qualified one to recommend?
TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(amberglow @ Oct 10 2013, 10:37 AM)
You better get a qualified electrician - make sure he is registered with TNB before you engage.    Wire-cable thickness is very important ... if the load more than wire can handle then it will overload which leads to wire becomes heated up which leads to electrical fire.

Each wall power socket should not be more than 13A which means your fuse should be 15A.  And depending on how your electrician wired up your sockets previously ... some electricians do short cut ... they put multiple wall socket on one wire example one room you ask 3 sockets ... that may be shared with 1 wire 1 MCB ... thus it is no better than an extension bar ... maximum load combined is only 13A.

Kitchen appliances such fridge, washing machines, microwave, electric stove, etc. usually will require its own dedicated socket and MCB ... that would be around 20A each. This especially true if you use very old appliances.  New modern appliances nowadays use a lot smaller amps - so a standard 13A can support. 

You better check your appliance power draw requirements and count ... to be safe make sure total amp to 1 wall socket is no more than 13A.  If you are overloading ... you have inefficient electric wiring which leads to high power loss which leads to a higher power bill.

So when it comes to electric wiring ... don't play-play ... be penny wise pound foolish.

Hope that helps.
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How man? The existing DB Box is full and I have so many power points and dont know how it was connected if one wire shares many points. rclxub.gif
Sydneguy
post Oct 10 2013, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 07:40 PM)
Any electrician real good and qualified one to recommend?
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Sorry I don't. I'm also looking for one .
Sydneguy
post Oct 10 2013, 07:54 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 07:44 PM)
How man? The existing DB Box is full and I have so many power points and dont know how it was connected if one wire shares many points.  rclxub.gif
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You can get electrician to add an extra sub-board, either next to the existing one or some other place in your house then run 60A or 100A cable from that sub-DB back to your main DB.

But I expect that will cost something like RM1-2k including hardware (RM700-1200).

Cheers.
Xccess
post Oct 10 2013, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 07:40 PM)
Any electrician real good and qualified one to recommend?
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Bro, please check your PM.

TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(Sydneguy @ Oct 10 2013, 07:54 PM)
You can get electrician to add an extra sub-board, either next to the existing one or some other place in your house then run 60A or 100A cable from that sub-DB back to your main DB.

But I expect that will cost something like RM1-2k including hardware (RM700-1200).

Cheers.
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Cost is not so much of a problem. The problem is under the existing box below are a row of switches sure got wire running in the wall.

Also, the wires now terminated at the DB box and how to connect to another place without major re-wiring? Even next to it still need to connect and lengthen the wire one by one? rclxub.gif

This time i want to make sure i know what is to be done before getting electrician to do what he wants or easy cincai job.
TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(Xccess @ Oct 10 2013, 08:01 PM)
Bro, please check your PM.
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Thanks. Can show a picture of your DB kah? Just want to know how many MCB you have and how complicated it is.
Xccess
post Oct 10 2013, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 08:10 PM)
Thanks. Can show a picture of your DB kah? Just want to know how many MCB you have and how complicated it is.
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Ok wait, I try to take a photo then post it here.

Xccess
post Oct 10 2013, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 08:10 PM)
Thanks. Can show a picture of your DB kah? Just want to know how many MCB you have and how complicated it is.
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Here you go.


user posted image
Sydneguy
post Oct 10 2013, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 08:07 PM)
l.

Also, the wires now terminated at the DB box and how to connect to another place without major re-wiring?

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Yeap, sorry to say it wont be a simple job.

If you have usstairs and downstairs then most of the wires will run from upstairs to downstairs at the same place, somewhere near the DB, most likeley just above it.

Then the easiest solution is to put a sub-BD upstairs near that common location and connect all those wires from upstairs into that DB, then run one big wire downstairs to the main DB. now your upstairs sub-DB should have several spare CB slot, and you will have freed up several CB slot in the downstairs DB. then can add in extra DB as required.

In Australia most of our internal and even most external walls are cavity walls, so its very easy to run extra wires.

Here in Malaysia the wires usually plastered into the brick wall so have to hack the wall to run new wires. If your super lucky the electrician will have placed some conduit in the birck/concrete wall and you can pull a new wire through that without hacking the wall, but from what ive seen that is very very very rare case in Malaysia.

Cheers
TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 08:47 PM

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QUOTE(Xccess @ Oct 10 2013, 08:23 PM)
Here you go.
user posted image
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Thanks bro.

Look like you got no 32A. Mine many of it and I think the wire cannot take load of 32A. Before it trips the wire burned first.

By the way your RCCB is 0.3A (300mA). Mine is 0.1A more sensitive.
weikee
post Oct 10 2013, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Oct 10 2013, 08:07 PM)
Cost is not so much of a problem. The problem is under the existing box below are a row of switches sure got wire running in the wall.

Also, the wires now terminated at the DB box and how to connect to another place without major re-wiring? Even next to it still need to connect and lengthen the wire one by one?  rclxub.gif

This time i want to make sure i know what is to be done before getting electrician to do what he wants or easy cincai job.
*
Cost really depend on the aesthetic, it need to be hack and conceal again. When I renovate my house, I insist minimal looping, and identify every single point that go direct. I have 2 DB Box, one per floor, even separate the ELCB.

My ground floor
user posted image


My first floor
user posted image


TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(Sydneguy @ Oct 10 2013, 08:37 PM)
Yeap, sorry to say it wont be a simple job.

If you have usstairs and downstairs then most of the wires will run from upstairs to downstairs at the same place, somewhere near the DB, most likeley just above it.

Then the easiest solution is to put a sub-BD upstairs near that common location and connect all those wires from upstairs into that DB, then run one big wire downstairs to the main DB. now your upstairs sub-DB should have several spare CB slot, and you will have freed up several CB slot in the downstairs DB. then can add in extra DB as required.

In Australia most of our internal and even most external walls are cavity walls, so its very easy to run extra wires.

Here in Malaysia the wires usually plastered into the brick wall so have to hack the wall to run new wires. If your super lucky the electrician will have placed some conduit in the birck/concrete wall and you can pull a new wire through that without hacking the wall, but from what ive seen that is very very very rare case in Malaysia.

Cheers
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Good idea to have the sub DB upstairs. But I have to find from photos taken last time. Below pic is the massive wires at DB photo taken during reno 12 yrs ago.
Attached Image

This is where the wire from G floor to 1st floor and up to ceiling, i think. Got to go up to ceiling to check this week end.
Attached Image

As you can see no conduit in wall. Conduit only on those above plaster ceiling. So have to drill a hole thru the 1st flr slap down to plaster ceiling for the thick cable
Attached Image
kickent
post Oct 10 2013, 09:10 PM

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
TSstevie8
post Oct 10 2013, 09:11 PM

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Here is the photo taken from ground floor. The wire from DB far end near door, drilled thru the beam and up to 1st floor. But only for new cable. The old cable not sure how it goes up.
Attached Image

This post has been edited by stevie8: Oct 10 2013, 09:12 PM
Sydneguy
post Oct 10 2013, 09:19 PM

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Just for comparison purposes here is my current DB. Its quite small, but its only for a 3 bedroom 1200sqft Condo with only 4 AC, 3 of which are hardly ever used.

There are 12 CB.

5 pcs 32 A
4 pcs 20A
and
3 pcs 6 A

the RCB is 0.3A

and the Main CB is only 32A.

I once tried to map out which lights and power sockets got to which CB but i gave up after only a few as it didnt make much sense. In particular some CB had both Lights and power socket on the the same CB, which is a big NO-NO is Oz but not sure about the wiring rules here.

My the power sockets for the Kitchen, laundry and common bathroom also also seem to be on one CB, since i have tripped it a few times when I have I had the washing machine, kettle, rice cooker and someone showering at the same time.


Cheers


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