Can we assume whether Our Electrical System is protected against Earth Protection or not by only Pressing ELCB Test Switch?

Checking the health of the ELCB is simple and you can do it easily by pressing TEST Push Button Switch of ELCB. The test push-button will test whether the ELCB unit is working properly or not. Can we assume that If ELCB is Trip after Pressing TEST Switch of ELCB than your system is protected against earth protection? Then you are wrong.

The test facility provided on the home ELCB will only confirm the health of the ELCB unit, but that test does not confirm that the ELCB will trip when an electric shock hazard does occur. It is a really sad fact that all the while this misunderstanding has left many homes totally unprotected from the risk of electric shocks.

This brings us or alarming us to think over second basic requirement for earth protection. The second requirement for the proper operation of a home shock protection system is electrical grounding.
We can assume that the ELCB is the brain for the shock protection, and the grounding as the backbone. Therefore, without a functional grounding (Proper Earthing of Electrical System) there is totally no protection against electrical shocks in your house even if You have installed ELCB and its TEST switch show proper result. Looking after the ELCB alone is not enough. The electrical Earthing system must also be in good working order for the shock protection system to work. In addition to routine inspections that should be done by the qualified electrician, this grounding should preferably be inspected regularly at shorter intervals by the homeowner and need to pour Water in Earthing Pit at Regular interval of Time to minimize Earth Resistance.

An earthing test needs to be done to check on the ground earth cable.

Ref : http://electricalnotes.wordpress.com/2011/...f-elcb-and-rcb/

Radiator cap problem struck closed mainly due to the expanded rubber seal and get stuck on the radiator cap neck. This add to the extra pressure needed to push the spring up by xxx psi till your hose give way and burst. If you want to save money RM10 to RM25 for the cap you can trim the protruding rubber, it works.

This post has been edited by stevie8: Sep 19 2013, 12:46 PM

Radiator cap won't jammed. Unless is the cheapo cap the spring will rust and not made to spec. I drove car > 10 years all still with original cap. Usually it will leak can causes lower coolant boiling point

You are talking about ELCB, What about RCB? Nowadays we use RCB, no more ELCB.

Hi all,

Just for sharing. Found this on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/PowerBreaker-Sa...88808a78&_uhb=1

Bought 4 units, cost me total RM430.14. So it's about RM108 per unit. Not so bad.

+1

That's what happened to my case.

I had a 10yrs old plus panasonic instant water heater (with the digital screen type), for the past ten years quite frequent I used to test the ELCB by pressing the button, it did trip the circuit n seemed working like a champ.

Months ago, while showering, a loud 'pop' sound heard, i was shocked to see the unit 'exploded', white smoke came out from the part of the wire point. Imagine the toilet filled with white thick smoke. The plastic cover around that wire-in area went black.

The pana technician who came over to check told me it's the bad wiring caused the mini explosion, the wire was melted, i.e. overload for a prolong period, not sudden overload.

So, I bought a Alpha Smart 18i instant water heater to replace the pana.

This 18i came with this Auto ELCB checking feature, so everytime the heater switch is turned on the system ll go thru a few seconds checking routine, if the result is fine, the row of green led ll light up indicating the ELCB is functioning.

This 18i also came with something "Not Available" in the old Pana, known as "LED Line Fault Indicator". So if this led is Red meaning something wrong with the wiring connection to the unit.

After the technician carefully connected all three wires to the 18i and turned on the unit for testing, the unit auto check the ELCB for few seconds, all green led light up, meaning it's working fine. The water also heated nicely. But the "Line Fault indicator" led is Red color! The technician told me if the wires r connected wrongly the water wouldn't have heated. Sound logic also.

But thank god he's willing to re-connect all 3 wires again just to double check. Well, same thing happened. The line fault indicator still light up in RED.

Then he stepped out the bathroom, opened up the Heater Switch on the wall right outside the bathroom, believe it or not, he discovered the Earth wire from the bathroom heater to the Switch was NOT connected to the switch at all! That's why the 18i line fault indicator showing RED.

Okie, why would the Earth wire not connected to the heater switch? The reason was the Earth wire from the wall is TOO short to reach the Earth connector on the switch. Bcoz not every Switch's connector placement r the same. The technician got me another Switch that has the Earth connector 'nearer' to the short earth wire, and after some careful adjustment only he managed to connect all three wires to the switch properly.

I m lucky I chose the 18i that came with an effective line fault detection, else I will never know the so called Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker ELCB is for 'show' only, the god damn Earth wire is not even ground at all !!



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I think this is a must-have safety feature on top of the better-than-nothing ELCB feature.

This post has been edited by Ho Sun Sun: Dec 13 2013, 06:12 PM

Very cheap wor. cheaper than I brought many yrs ago.

Brought so many, want to sell it out?

I bought Rubine IA series with same self checking feature and DC pump as a gift to a friend. Not only LED indicator auto check but also it beeps...and also claimed to be the first on this. Still better to have additional RCD switch.

Dont trust ELCB. Get RCD switch.

From the picture, it is not the heater faulty. But the wiring joint that corrode after longtime of expose to high humidity. Your wire from the wall is short and cannot reach the heater connector. So they use an extra wire to twist and joint. Both live and neutral. Than just tape it. The long yrs high humidity cause the corrode to built up at the copper wire joint (The green color substance inside the tape). The resistance getting high and the heat built up. Finally kaboom.

For such a high amp heater using, the wire cannot be joint in this way. Should be replace the whole wire till the switch. For lower amp, don't have much problem or take longer time or just no power will go through. If really need to joint, a proper joint with solder and proper insulate to seal it.

So even if you replace the heater, if the wire still join in this way, it will happen again. ELCB won't be able to detect such problem. Unless the wire touch to the ground after explode.

Bullshit CSI explanation here.

Can be join, but need to solder, not just twist and tape. And use 3M tape

U are absolutely correct!! The wires r not long enough due to the placement of the old pana heater and the technician so inconsiderate to simply twist n join another set of thinner wires to extend it.

But the new alpha heater was placed nicely so the original wires from wall r long enough for a secured connection.

I knew it's not the pana heater fault, the mini explosion has nothing to do with ELCB malfunctioning. I just want to highlight the fact that :

#1. simply pressing the ELCB button to check it's functionality is pointless if the earth is not grounded at all.

#2. hence, the alpha's 'Line Fault Indicator' feature i.e. the earth fault detector is very very useful. It checks the home’s earth wiring status, if there is an improper electrical connection it will be detected, and you will be alerted with the indicator light changing from green to red.

If that is what you described the pana heater is still working, only the wire heated up and smoked due to bad connection. You should have just reinstall the pana heater and get a RCD swtich than buying a new heater.

Your alpha how could it allowed user to continue using heating up when the LED is red!!! Here is what you said,

"After the technician carefully connected all three wires to the 18i and turned on the unit for testing, the unit auto check the ELCB for few seconds, all green led light up, meaning it's working fine. The water also heated nicely. But the "Line Fault indicator" led is Red color! The technician told me if the wires r connected wrongly the water wouldn't have heated. Sound logic also. "

But the blue statement contradicted the red statement????

This post has been edited by stevie8: Dec 14 2013, 01:22 AM

Okie, the pana technician who came over to check the unit advised me not to continue using the pana heater, on top of that, if u take a closer look at the pic above, the housing also cracked de, so can't fix the heater on the wall securely de...summore, the pana heater served me 10yrs plus de, still want to continue using it? lol..alwez safer to get a new decent condition unit even if i plan to get a RCD switch right

I understand your confusion on the blue and red statement lol..

The 3 wires connection to the alpha heater was actually all correct, and the ELCB is not Faulty, hence after the ELCB check, the status is good, so it continue to heat up the water.

On the other hand, The Line fault detection would only show a RED led if problem was found in the home’s earth wiring, it won't trip the circuit like what the ELCB is designed to do when there is a leakage to earth. My case was the earth wire was not connected to the heater switch outside the bathroom, so it was detected, and the RED led shown up to inform user like me.

By right, if the line fault led turned red, the heater should not allow further operation EVEN if the ELCB is in working condition bcoz the fundamental Earth is not grounded. But compared to heaters that don't even come with this Line fault LED indicator, it's better than none.

This post has been edited by Ho Sun Sun: Dec 14 2013, 09:03 AM

If you read back here, the ELCB doesn't effective on certain electrical leaking. Hence why the Japanese couple get kill. (Maybe).

Get a RCD as what Stevie8 suggest.

Yes u rite definitely will look into it, the RCD ! thanks otak!

sorry for digging out this old thread but i found the ELCB and RCD is very informative. Some instant water heaters start to adopt RCD as well.

Difference between ELCB and RCD

-ELCB is the old name and often refers to voltage operated devices that are no longer available and it is advised you replace them if you find one.

-RCCB or RCD is the new name that specifies current operated (hence the new name to distinguish from voltage operated).

-The new RCD is best because it will detect any earth fault. The voltage type only detects earth faults that flow back through the main earth wire so this is why they stopped being used.

-The easy way to tell an old voltage operated trip is to look for the main earth wire connected through it.
-RCD will only have the line and neutral connections.

-ELCB is working based on Earth leakage current. But RCD is not having sensing or connectivity of Earth, because fundamentally Phase current is equal to the neutral current in single phase. That's why RCD can trip when the both currents are deferent and it withstand up to both the currents are same. Both the neutral and phase currents are different that means current is flowing through the Earth.

-Finally both are working for same, but the thing is connectivity is difference.
RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own.

-This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth. It is these properties that have made the RCD more popular than its rivals. For example, earth-leakage circuit breakers (ELCBs) were widely used about ten years ago. These devices measured the voltage on the earth conductor; if this voltage was not zero this indicated a current leakage to earth. The problem is that ELCBs need a sound earth connection, as does the equipment it protects. As a result, the use of ELCBs is no longer recommended.

This post has been edited by xin: Nov 29 2014, 08:59 PM

ozak Would you be kind enough to post a photo of this installed RCD near your water heater? And the installation was done by your electrician or is it a DIY?

Just FYI - I am in the midst of purchasing 2 Joven water heaters for my new apartment.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Career26: Feb 1 2015, 12:02 AM

Search through the diy picture --> https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3413210

Install myself. You can just install it from the wire point that comeout for water heater in the bathroom. Or as Stevie8 suggest, can use to replace the switch.

To adequately protect, the RCD should be rated at 25A 10mA. It is also not recommended to connect other apparatus to this circuit. 30mA is too high already.
Most if not all modern day instant shower heater already have it own RCD protection.
This RCD is more needed for storage tank heater and solar type.