i have no solution for the messed up education system, it takes political will, that is all.........

but therefore the facts remains.....

1. there is a difference between 1st and 3rd world unis....

2. the difference relates to quality issues, which is how selection of students are made, curriculum, minimum standards, daring to fail people if indicated etc......

3. therefore when one graduates from a well known 1st world uni, the immediate assumption is, this is a godd student, who was selected by merit, and has undergone good training, have survived strict exams, and now is a competent doctor (or whatever profession)......in the msian context, he of course has rich parents or has a scholarship, but that is beside the point, without being qualified, he would NOT have got in......

4. when confronted with a 3rd world graduate, questions immediately crops up in one's mind: was this person selected on real merit, or based on quotas? or he has rich parents who paid for a place? was he sufficiently good enough to justify his selection? did he pass all his exams? was the school instructed to pass him (you will be surprised)? did he receive good training? was there enough lecturers? ........so many doubts and questions.....

do you understand?

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 05:53 PM

Haya,
I have always known that you are somehow connected to limeuu. You are always there to defend him. Also, you said you posted in the thread about moscow state medical not being ranked 2nd worldwide but in fact i can't find any post from you in the same thread, so i am guessing that you used his account to post in that thread, right?
Btw, why deleted your post? If he's married for more than i lived, then he must be at least 40.

limeuu,
Seriously, do you have to repeat same thing over and over again? I am really sicked of reading your posts, they are all very similar. I believe we all know there are major defects in our educational system. But what can we do??
Instead of you bashing 3rd world schools all the time, why dun you give some constructive criticisms regarding how to be a good doctor since you are a doctor yourself? Also, many students who entered local private med schools are brilliant but do not have the luxury to go for medical education in the 1st world countries which you praised so much. This includes those who are on scholarship.

BTw, if you are from UM, you should know who's Dr MV Kumar right?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 9 2008, 06:08 PM

lol my bio teacher here in aus told us to apply everywhere cos we'll be learning the same thing doesnt matter we're in uk, aus, or india, or malaysia. to what extent is this true? =/

that is generally true.....

just as all students learning physics also learn newton's laws......

the facts are the same......

you assessments, standards required to pass, soft skills like communication, work ethics, etc will be very different.........

and of course whether you get an offer in the first place.....selection criteria varies very widely......

eg, say you obtain a ter of 95, you will likely NOT get any offer in oz at all, but will more than qualify to enter any of msia's ipts med schools......so if you have been aussie, you life would be different, you will go do another course, and take another profession.......but since you are msian, you will enter a med school somewhere, and become a doctor.......

---

Added on August 9, 2008, 9:36 pmi wasn't answering you, but to specific comments by others.......they obvious do not do reading of old posts..........

i bash 3rd world schools not........but put the facts in perspective, so people gets realistic info......

each individual will be judged individually, especially from 3rd world med schools, so it's up to you.....there are lots of bright and competent doctors from 3rd world unis.......you just have to prove yourselves......but unfortunately the negatives associated with 3rd world unis will rub off on you, and you will carry that burden of doubt with you as a generic mark.....facts of life......

just prove yourself......worthy of the best.....

my era is tj danaraj......go google him.....he is a giant malaysian...

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 09:59 PM

lol if you were under T.J. Danaraj , I guess your age must be somewhere 40 to 50.
if that's the case, your remarks are rather immature; has no sense of widsom. for someone ur age... no offence though..

i tell the facts as it is.........if you are not matured enough to handle it, get off the forum........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 10:26 PM

Speaking of maturity, i'm only 20. .. and you have over 20 years more experience than me ..as a doctor..
hmm ur comments have been unhelpful, to put it in a better way. you're a UM graduate, i dont know if you would label ur uni as 3rd world uni, but i acknowledge you as a UM doc.. UM is malaysia top uni after all.

well, a uncle of mine-a doctor- always advice me what i should or must do during my med training years. And also the attributes i should have once i become a doctor.
But some your comments were no where near an advice. You should have great insights about doctors in malaysia in general regardless of where they graduate from. And you urselves have worked with orang putih before, which is a great experience, we'd love to learn from you.

i think the comments shouldn't come from an experienced doctor like you

This post has been edited by blackrobin: Aug 9 2008, 11:08 PM

ah icic, basically knowledge is the same, just that skills learnt will be different =/ i don quite get the part where u said "whether you get an offer in the first place" though, can u clarify? thanks.

and yeah, basically I'm interested in medicine, quite passionate bout it though. well, no harm trying, if I really cant get in (even in msia, cos I screwed up my ISAT test in aus), then i guess i'll go for other med-related courses in aus. but your last sentence seems to show that msians are kia su xD but oh well, thats kinda true =D

i do not know anyone here personally.......

i give the facts........

i give general advise.........

my insight on the quality and spectrum of doctors is exactly why i say the things i did.......seen too many bad doctors who should not have done medicine in the first place.......and how this problem doesn't exist in uk and singapore......

which comments do you take exception to?....be specific.......

---

Added on August 9, 2008, 11:21 pmmany msians doing/done foundation/year12/nzyear13 who failed to enter the courses they want (usually medicine, dentistry, maybe pharmacy, this is usually not a problem for other courses) will return to msia and enrol in one of the ipts, popular ones being pmc and imu, and maybe now monash as well.....

and it is paradoxical and ironical, don't you think, that when in a certain country, you do not qualify (even if you have money), you can then go to another country and pay money and get a place......??

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 11:21 PM

I don't like the way you commented on the local U and private med school in malaysia, they meant as if all the med students from there would make shitty doctors.

this is interesting.. how bad were them? lack of medical knowledge(clinical,etc) or just just plain bad attitudes?

I think it is paradoxical generally , and to some it's pure irony. But some really have passion in medicine, when the orthodox way is denied, they would opt for an alternative. Eg. the one you've stated

This post has been edited by blackrobin: Aug 9 2008, 11:36 PM

read my posts again.......carefully.......i make no blanket judgement on any particular student......only the system.......

med schools in msia, both ipts and ipta, are mediocre.......none has achieved any excellence....even um has dumbed down.......as reflected in it's lost of gmc registration and world ranking......getting and keeping good lecturers and teachers are the underlying problems......

the main problem is however, admission policy......if you don't select the right students, you end up with the wrong doctors.......the spectrum of students is so broad, you get the very good to the very bad.....that is wrong........it should be the very good to the good........

i am very critical in this area........i strongly believe mediocre students should NOT be allowed to "try'.......because the system is NOT robust enough to weed them out ('not allowed to fail' policy)......and bad doctors are actually allowed to graduate.....

i was initially critical of imu's admission policy too, they are too lax in entry requirements, but they made up for this by having a robust exam system, daring to fail those who do not make the grades........this they have to do, because eventually, it is NOT imu who decides who passes, it's the pms, who will decide who can be accepted into their med schools..........and they tolerate no compromise of standards.....and those who went through the pms through the years have graduated comfortably compared with the home students.....

huh? you mean having good teachers/lecturers is the core problem..I guess it's a typo from u or it has an underlying meaning?

NUS is not registrable to the GMC too.

wow, you're a serious critic, really, not as a food critic, film critic, but a med skol critic. lol

ok, how bad were them as a doctor, and how bad will us, the "mediocre" med students from the 'mediocre' med skols in Mas, be in the future as a doctor?

No med schools outside of UK and EU are registrable to the GMC currently. The ruling has been changed. International Medical Graduates (IMG) have to take PLAB in order to work in UK. But i guess there's no point taking PLAB now as non UK or EU citizens will not be allowed to take up a training post.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 10 2008, 03:23 AM

I've read on the RAF website that they do recruit doctors and dentists from commonwealth countries. If you can't take PLAB because you're a non-UK citizen, then what about it?

You must take PLAB if you are not a UK/EU citizen and graduated from a Non UK/EU school in order to be registrable to GMC.

Just an update for AIMST's thread. It's our unis big day tomorrow and the campus is looking really awesome tonight. The Prime Minister and his cabinets are to be here at 9.30am tomorrow morning for the official ceremony. Currently most of the delegates are already here at the campus.

News reports taken from NST and The Star.

NST : Collaboration of AIMST and Imperial College London on a joint researh to tackle tuberculosis.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Fri...icle/index_html

The Star : Abdullah to open AIMST University’s new RM500m campus
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...4026&sec=nation


Enjoy your day. And this is just an update to all the AIMST students at lowyat.net.

Wow, good to hear that.
AIMST will be a leading medical institute in the near future.

Yup, hopefully. It has certainly moved on quite alot since the day it was established. Something to be proud of, at last. Haha. Probably cause of the appointment of our new VC who's also a Brit cardiothoracic professor from Sheffield, Prof. Geoffrey Smith.

"New Live. New Beat." is the tagline for the opening, lets hope that the new beat continues.

Hey bro, do you know anything about AIMST pharmacy? Lecturers are mostly from where? My cousin is very keen on joining pharmacy course in AISMT.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 17 2008, 01:02 AM

AIMST campus ROOM can online or not?

---

Added on August 21, 2008, 8:52 pmme too, will it be recognize? - -" thats the main problem..

This post has been edited by manfye: Aug 21 2008, 08:52 PM