I don't see how would that be a problem. No patient would care if you had straight As or not for your SPM. All they most probably want is your track history (after you graduate).

I mean come on, would you really go to a doctor and ask him "Hey, how many As did you score for your SPM?". Come, do educate us on how would you choose your doctor.

*munches on popcorn*

when the time comes, you will face the issue......of course it's theoretical at the moment.......

I mean, seriously...spit it out. How do you pick your doctor? I'm asking you how, that's pretty subjective.

I come from a similar line of profession. I used to have a whole butt load of As too. But now, I could see it's more than just As to be good doctor.

In my class, some of the nerds are really bad or slow at cavity preparations & fillings. Their vast amount of text book knowledge is of no use when it comes to hand work.

Personally, I wouldn't want a nerd examining me.

Wow, a very subjective issue here. Haha. I would still say that past results like spm or even pre-u won't affect the type of doctor you will become one day. Foundation/pre-u programme is only a bridge to bring you from the post-spm level over to the degree level. As long as you don't find any problems coping with the degree course later on, then the foundation programme can be considered as good. This is because that it has provided you with sufficient knowledge that you need for the latter stages in education. Therefore results is not the benchmark on how good can you be in the future, but more to how much of knowledge have you absorbed throughout your studies. Good can be defined better through one's attitude. Why is it that always only students with best result can enter competitive courses like medicine, and often it's not guranteed that they will make the best doctor when they graduate.

Limeuuu, can you confirm that only students who enter with good results make the best doctor in the society currently? Probably they can take stress better than other doctors, but are they more capable in handling patients? Can they make perfect diagnosis with great pre-u or spm results? I would like to know as i'm hoping to be a good doctor in the future as well. Thanks. =)

there is the SCIENCE and the ART of medicine.....

to be good in the science, you really have to have a brilliant mind....and that is why good academic results is the first prerequisite.....

the art of medicine is more tricky, and is NOT liked to academic ability.....some people calls it the eq....as opposed to iq........

the vast majority of brilliant students/doctors will have good eq too.....but not all.......and it is these exceptions that people time and time again use to justify that good results is not essential to make a good doctor.....

on the other hand, there will be those weaker students who struggles through their studies and eventually their working life.......but have good eq, and patients still like them, even though they may not be very competent or knowledgeable.......

developed countries recognise all these, and then select their med students carefully.......first step, only the bright students are shortlisted (generally means top 5% of the student cohort).....and from this group, by personality assessment and interview, choose those who is deemed potentially will be good in the art of medicine.......

many med students with poor academic results in msian and 3rd world med schools, will never have even pass the first step were they in 1st world countries.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jun 23 2008, 06:12 PM

hmm, just a question, is AIMST cert recognized by malaysia and other parts of the world? And do patients judge the doctor by looking at their certs? Like, they prefer to see a doctor from harvard than from russia? is this the case these days?

Well, limeuu has pretty much said it all. For once I'll agree.

Frankly, my mom judges her doctors from their certs. I too might judge my doctor from his degree. Yes, having that said, I WILL see where he's graduated from. While I won't cut them off, I'll just be a little more cautious.

I'm not so sure about AIMST. The lecturers are excellent. The senior batches too are really good, but as for the ones fresh ones coming in with their AIMST foundation cert, dunno lah. Coz nearly every Tom, d*** & Harry is getting straight As in the SPM. It's quite hard to judge them yet.

And why the hell is everyone chasing for an MBBS/MD?! Money? Status? Passion?

aimst mbbs is now registrable with the mmc......there has never been a case of any local degree not been recognised by the mmc........i am however not aware of any other country that recognises it.....it is relatively new anyway....

in the real world, if the cost is not an issue (you are very rich, or someone is willing to pay whatever expenses for you)......yes patients will choose their doctors based on quality (or perceived quality)........if they have access to information and data about the hospital/doctors......that is why patients from small towns will seek treatment in big towns, indonesians flocked to msia hospitals, malaysians go to singapore, singaporeans go to oz/uk/us........that is NOT an ideal situation, but is an inevitable outcome if quality and standards are not seen to be uniform........that is why the 1st world countries TRY to take this guesswork out of the equation as much as possible........ie ensure ALL med graduates have undergone the most stringent selection process, and the best training, and ALL doctors thus produced are equally COMPETENT and SAFE.......

try......it is of course not perfect, but at least they try.......

are we trying?

EQ, i truly believed that EQ is more important than IQ when it comes to working life later on. I have no idea but i've got the feeling that not all students who enter with great results will make a good doctor in the future. Majority of these so called bright students have the ability to cope well in their studies, but often they tend to be arrogant and look down on others when it comes to the society. This is probably because they think that they have a higher education level than the rest of the society or they thought have the ability to fund for their studies as medical courses are not cheap nowadays. It seems that this happens in most of the private medical school in Malaysia. Therefore sometimes i would think that if students who enter with those "not-so-great" results will make a better doctor in the future as they are willing to learn and being not so arrogant when it comes to their attitudes.

One thing i would like to know is that how a good doctor is being defined in the medical community, as Limeuu you yourself is a doctor i believed. Does that mean that medical graduates armed with the most knowledge will emerge as the best doctor? Or is it those who has good doctor-patient relationship skills? Or it is both? Which is more important when it comes to a good doctor. =)

onelove89, AIMST MBBS programme is recognised in Malaysia currently but i'm not sure on the rest of the world. I guess it should have no problem if it has been recognised by MMC. However, certain countries such as US will require foreign medical graduates to sit for their own qualification exams such as USMLE. As for patients judging the doctors, i don't think that it's through the certs but more on how competent you are. As for that, you need to gain the confidence of the patient. Harvard and Russian graduates both comes out with the same qualification, which is a doctor at the end. It will depends on how competent they are to judge how good they are. Sounded like a very subjective issue here. This is only my personal comment. Haha. Would love if anyone would like to add on to this. Thanks. =)

like i said, that is pretty much the standard arguement....

it is not entirely wrong.......but it is a matter of priority.......do you choose people with perceived good eq as 1st priority.......then hope they are just as equally brilliant.......? that seem to be the arguement......

educators/healthcare planners from 1st world disagree.......hence their model i explained above.....are they wrong?

and your comments about cost and arrogance is also true..........which is why ABILITY TO PAY THE FEES is never a criteria for selection..........unlike msia and ipts...........

and finally, 'sometimes' cannot be extrapolated to become policy, ala 'lets take in all the mediocre students who are willing to learn, sometimes they will become good doctors"........

Thanks Limeuu and csrulez =) Csrulez can you give me more details on the course? Thanks.

I think its unfair to judge by their certs, because one might be a good doctor but is discriminated because he/she graduated from a not-so-famous university, and vice versa. But I guess that is life =/

More details could be found at:

a) At the front of this thread
b) AIMST University Website
c) AIMST University @ Facebook
d) Google it!

onelove, i recall, was very naive and optimistic just a year ago, saying very confidently he is going to do medicine in oz......

after a semester in perth, i am sure the realities are setting in, and he understands now what i meant when i said, you do NOT choose you med school.........they choose you.......at least in the 1st world like oz and uk..........

so looks like imu, pmc aimst etc are now real possibilities to consider.......unfortunately, they are where admission is as much decided on academic merit as financial ability.......and where now is the all important eq.......one wonders........

I find it strange that i actually agree with what you said after all this while.
It's only appropriate for the best students to be selected for medical course. Often, students with good academic performance not only have IQ but also discipline and determination, which are very much required in this profession.
However, as i have always stressed, result should only matter if that particular examination has a clear and well defined marking scheme, unlike SPM. Just look at the number of people getting As. Also, i believe there's certain degree of bias against candidates from private schools, not to mention the leakage of questions which is very much rampant in the northern peninsular. Although one might argue that SPM is the common pathway for all students in Msia, but what's the point of making it the benchmark for students if its marking scheme is dubious?

At the moment, training at local private medical schools can never match those of western. They are, however, the only affordable options for the middle class msian who did not take STPM. This is the sad part of medical education in Boleh Land.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jun 24 2008, 12:35 AM

Judging from all your posts, you're all most probably future medical practitioners. Then what do you think that could be done to correct this problem? Of wanting both IQ & EQ in doctors. If this continues, manyak susah lor...

Btw, you must also take into consideration, there are many lower/middle class top students who missed by an A in their STPM and don't get to study medicine locally. And just because some of them enroll in IPTS, you can't say he's of a lower class doctor can you?

In addition, are you saying only the richer & smarter ones get to be the best doctors?

nope, its basically their choice, no matter where you are. yeah I'm aware of that point. Thats why I said i will 'try' for ISAT =/ i only got 170/200, which is relatively low compared to others. So here, I will TRY for med schools in malaysia , If i cant get in then oh well. =) Reality is like that, and I know very clearly now.

I think financial ability also plays a part. Monash representative in Melbourne told us that a lot of them dropped out because they can't afford the fees.

Nah, I cant agree on the point of 'future medical practitioners' for me. I still don't know what is my path, but I'm trying out for medicine, if I cant get in,I'll go into other fields. =)

Like u said, the era now wants doctors with both IQ and EQ. So, the last point saying 'only the richer and smarter ones get to be best doctors' is a bit contradicting. =) and personally I don't think that is the case.

it is relatively easy to get into ipts med schools in msia.....you should be able to get in one of them easily.....

ter 91 in imu....
ter 95 in monash msia
ter 90 in pmc direct entry
ter 85 in pmc premed

all you need is some brains and lots of money.......

whether you continue will depend on your performance.... imu failed 48/228 in me2/07.....

Nothing can be done in Malaysia, unless the quota for bumis is removed. As long as the quota is there, the standard of education, not only in medicine but in all fields, will continue to deteriorate.

In order to ensure all medical graduates are equally competent and safe, a National Medical Licensing Exam should be in place. However, this is almost next to impossible as there is just too much of politic involved.

For the non-bumis, yes, only the richer but not necessarily smarter ones get to be doctors (with the exception of those sponsored by scholarship).

Oh, damn, again we go way too off topic. Sorry.

Therefore the only thing a private medical school can do to increase the quality of doctors produced and to earn money at the same time, is to drop out students who can't cope with the curriculum itself. Drop up rates are higher if the entry requirement is lower, i presume. The curriculum should also be updated from time to time to follow the medical trend.

onelove89, ya can check out this site for more info on our present curriculum.

http://www.aimst.edu.my/facultiesn/faculti...ils/medprog.asp

Anyways, I believed i've learned alot from this forum regarding the medical profession.