I don't want hijack your question but from my observation, in Bolehland, we can turn any non-Syariah products into "syariah' compliant with a few twists here and there and call it good and everyone is happy where else nothing fundamentally has changed how the money is being made.

I think if the investment is not haram, (alcohol, gambling), even if not Syariah compliance, is still OK.

For now, probably so. But if in the event, the difference >1% consistently, that does make a difference especially when it is compounded every year till 55, or eventually 60. Hence my view is that all investments by KWSP should be wholly and collectively made in the fair interest of all contributors and divided equally and proportionately. Because unlike Banks, where we can have choices to decide whether to take up their products or not based on the T&C, EPF contributions are mandatory. We do not get a say on where and how they invest, and nothing to govern the returns if any, except for the minimum 2.5%. As such, all funds that are generating returns should be fairly distributed.

Ok lah, I think I've emphasized my points that it becomes repetitive. I do that some times

That is very true for those relying on their savings and EPF funds for living expenses after retirement.

I would not dispute that. However, if this is passed, does that means Muslims contributors MUST place in Islamic account, while others can choose? And then imagine if EPF declares that conventional accounts yields higher dividend, whether it's 0.1% or 1% than the Islamic account. Would those placing in Islamic accounts be making a big fuss about it then, especially here in Malaysia? I think they would. Thus, from that perspective, I don't foresee EPF aka the Govt would be declaring a lower dividend for the Islamic accounts. KWSP were, are and will continue to be politically motivated or influenced in their management.

"Investing" in stock market or trust funds are another way of gambling, since dumping money in and wait for a chance for it to go up are same as go Genting casino, put money on the table and wait for the chance.

nothing new, its just a policy to transfer wealth in short. how do u think BRIM works? where the fund comes from to pay BRIM to those qualified?

This post has been edited by vincentwmh: Oct 22 2015, 12:05 PM

Interesting time ahead for contributors to choose between conventional or syariah products
I supposed majority of contributors will choose conventional due to past track record
Having said tat, some contributors may choose syariah product as they blif early bird catches the worm

FBMKLCI is still negative for the year. Ringgit has dropped over 20% this year.
That's means a lot of companies earnings flat this year.

Syariah or not (early bird or not), I wonder how they will turn up another 5%+ yield or higher rate?
Perhaps 2.5% may not be bad after all.

Bulk of investment is in MGS.
MGS currently yield about 4.x%.

While for stock market investment, EPF does receive dividend, and some stocks are performing well due to USD rise (just like financial result of Topglove recently), so there will be still some earning, although likely to be lesser than previous year.

Also EPF does venture into overseas market as well, beside potential gain in valuation in the investment, the exchange rate will gain them some hefty figure as well, as RM has dropped about 25% vs USD.

So return may be less, but dividend declared shouldn't be too bad until need to be below 4~5% or the min 2.5%.

You can't drag some profit made in non-syariah compliance investment, and declared in islamic account.
It defy the origin purpose of it.

So likely, they may operate in different set of account or investment.
It is not the like EPF lump sum money made, and then distributed between conventional and islamic account.

When you have islamic account and KWSP-I which is syariah compliance, then they need to ensure the money will be investing into syariah component of investment, by then profit shared for the account.

It is like ASx declared 7%, while ASy declared 7.5%, while ASz declared 6.8%, they also run under the same roof aka PNB, but invested differently between them.

I don't see much issue, as you have the option to choose.
One may better or worst than the other, which may vary from time to time due to market situation.

FYI if you have seen this.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...-a-minefield-2/

i think not all earnings are declared as dividends. Therefore sometimes they will dip into retained earnings for propping up the dividends in bad times.

Yes, when good time, need to retain for rainy day, so that the dividend can be more consistently.
As there were times, equities market may make a loss one.

Eg.
One year make 9%, next year 11%, another year 1%, so a 7% or 6% (save 1% for further) roughly every year can be given out.

The previous decision to invest abroad, now if we see back is a good decision, that manage to hedge against RM depreciation.

Too much speculation whether shariah account would give higher dividend rate compare with conventional account

and I see a lot of people are confused. muslim required compulsory "forced" into shariah account? well it's up to individuals. but peer pressure of "u gonna burn in hell" for using conventional "haram" account could play a role in decision making

where the source of BR1M money come from?

RM422 million in unclaimed EPF funds, withdrawal remains at 55
http://www.nst.com.my/news/2015/10/rm422-m...awal-remains-55

This article is silent on whether those who left their money inside the EPF after 55 without further contributions have the flexibility of withdrawals anytime after 55.

I can sense your fear of money being "locked" after reaching 55yo by looking on your repetitive posting on the same issue past few days

I have an uncle who's in 75 now and has worked since the 1970s. He had not withdraw a single dime from his EPF. His plan is to continue to accumulate as much dividends as possible (since it is higher than FD) until EPF forces him to distributed his money. He treating the EPF as long term investments with very little risk. At one year, I think he said he got a notice saying that EPF disallows any member who is not contributing to continue to let their money sit in the account, then the following year, he got another notice, he can continue let his money in there till 80. He has named his nominees since then (of course in preparation just in case, he passes suddenly). So, he got about 5 more years to let his money to continue to grow.


Therefore, I don't think they would restrict anyone to withdraw after 55 (which is the qualify retirement age), if they really do retire and not working anymore.

It does not make sense say for example, if one decides to work and contribute until 57 - two more years into past their qualified 55 retirement age, then starting at 57.5, they wanted to retire and starting to withdraw, EPF ruling would prohibit them just because they are under 60 (since they're not contributing anymore).

I believe if anyone do want to continue to work beyond 55, while the individual is still WORKING beyond 55, both the employee & employer are continuing to contribute into EPF, concurrent withdrawal is perhaps PROHIBITED at that time. Now, this would make more sense.

This post has been edited by danmooncake: Oct 22 2015, 10:58 PM

Interest rates offered by 1Malaysia Development Bhd (1MDB) units that are nearly twice that of institutional bonds show that the Employees Provident Fund’s (EPF) investments in the firms are considered high-risk, PKR’s Rafizi Ramli asserted today.

He also went on to dispute Johari’s categorisation of EPF’s investment exposure as minimal, saying that RM1.72 billion could not be considered a small sum.

- See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia...h.bKv9hzdo.dpuf

I think we all know that. Anyway Hansel you can always use your overseas fund to support your life should epf implement this. Is not a big issue for you. It might be an issue for those that haven't diversify outside malaysia and into other instruments.