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 EPF DIVIDEND, EPF

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Wedchar2912
post Jul 6 2023, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Jul 6 2023, 07:27 PM)
If I can I would.
But I have not reach 55 years or 50 years

In fact I took out as much monies as possible when given the chance to do so.

And in my current job, I took a contract role in such a way my company does not need to pay epf to me.

But side note. Do you have mental issues?
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why the personal attacks?

you do know whatever financial issues you have, it has nothing to do with me right?

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Jul 6 2023, 08:24 PM
Wedchar2912
post Jul 6 2023, 08:24 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Jul 6 2023, 08:24 PM)
So you can attack me but I cannot do like wise?
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read back ur first response to me. I responded appropriately.

eitherway, no need to continue further. Good luck to you and your finances.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Jul 6 2023, 08:25 PM
Wedchar2912
post Jul 7 2023, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(N9484640 @ Jul 7 2023, 10:49 AM)
All these time I had planned on taking out just the yearly dividends but now reading all these, I just might withdraw everything. I’ve no more trust in EPF even if they U-Turn on this one. Anyone else feels the same?
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personally, I believe there is no need to over react.... all ok to relook into one's plan and do some future planning or some small adjustment.

If one planned and executed properly (plus a bit of good luck), by the time we all reach 55 years old, 240K rm should be a small part of our retirement funds. Allow me to just use a simple example for illustration.


say at 55, one has 3 million ringgit (arbitrary number). if epf wants to hold 240K rm, so be it... let them hold it.... just take it as either we keep 240K rm with MBSB (yeah, I know, not very safe) earning 5% pa FD rate, or we can pretend that we just spent 240K rm on a car.
eitherway, because we still have 2.8 million left, wait 2 to 5 years, our funds would have grown back to 3 million at least.

But if say at 55, one only has 800K rm (cos spent a lot on kids education), then 240K rm is a big amount. But if one really think about it, doesn't this mean that the 240K rm in EPF earning 5% or above is really a good deal?


Eitherway, in reality, stopping the special withdrawal used up so much political will... implement this as mandatory... I just wonder how much our PMX is willing to lose.
Wedchar2912
post Jul 7 2023, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(batman1172 @ Jul 7 2023, 10:38 AM)
Actually I will do monthly withdrawal thing voluntary but the thing is I need RM5k monthly and that amount to be increased by 3%-4% yearly depending on inflation rate and I guess this value will be different from person to person. If they use RM240k/20 years without factoring in inflation then my EPF can last me till maybe 200 years old. So my vote is NO and if they still do, I will vote the next PM who say can take out my money.
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You don't need to worry much about this...

really doubt EPF will implement the worst version I can think off (hopefully not due to lack of imagination). Which is the one that regardless of amount, everything is converted into annuity where only 1K rm is allowed to be withdrawn.... defies logic... imagine having say 2 million in Epf but can only withdraw 1K per month devil.gif

Plus, who are the top 248 members and those with above 5 million in EPF? these are ex or current CEOs and C suites people with connections... sure these guys will make noise too.
Wedchar2912
post Jul 7 2023, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(matrix88 @ Jul 7 2023, 12:46 PM)
what if people only have all their savings in EPF, maybe 1-2 million but outside nothing left.
then if everymonth only withdraw small amount, die lo.
the money how also cannot finish lo
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Yeah, that would be a problem.

but there is another issue at hand. The retirees did not practice prudent financial planning steps. Diversification. The chap should not have everything in one basket, no matter how tough he/she thinks the basket's material is.
For this chap, his should now start diverting his funds out of EPF into something else....
(yet another problem comes up... what is that something else? )
Wedchar2912
post Jul 7 2023, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(akidos @ Jul 7 2023, 01:19 PM)
Dude the majority doesnt know how to manage the money . you dont see yourself but the morons , cleaner or the technicians who spends all his money modifying his dumbass motorbike instead of sending his kids to kumon .
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what to do...

real life problems which almost can never be solved.

Its like health... majority knows cannot overeat, and yet most people eat like no tomorrow if given chance (a sin that I also partake once).... at up with subpar health sooner or later.

I guess many of us are just discussing whether big brother has the right to dictate what we can do with our retirement funds at 55 years old... same thing like can a Doctor dictate whether a serious diabetic patient is allowed to eat Ice-cream even though the patient knows he will lose his left foot...

Wedchar2912
post Jul 7 2023, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Jul 7 2023, 01:45 PM)
Now I know why you are so upset over my previous comment.
Because you just cannot handle the fact that it is going to happen.

Why defy logic. Almost everyone here already supports the gov action. Maybe not 1k but definitely it's going to be periodic.

As for those special people. They have special rules.

The funny thing is, you insulted me yet claim I was doing personal insults

Never knew Malaysians are this unsophisticated. Even Singaporeans are so much better. What a disgrace.
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Bro, just let it go. (If you wish to do self reflection, just go back to read the first response you had to my post. It was not me who initiated any post to you).

You clearly have some issues you need to solve. Now suddenly it is singaporeans are superior. haha.
Go and solve whatever issues you have...
Wedchar2912
post Jul 7 2023, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(CommodoreAmiga @ Jul 7 2023, 08:19 PM)
bro, this time different....because the country is really going downhill at accelerated rate due to external and internal factors. Now it is not so much taking your money but throwing a wrench in your plan. If you have a lot outside beside EPF, then it's ok. If EPF represents over 80% of your networth, then better reevaluate your strategies.
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For the immediate future, the parameters seems to be fixated at 20 years, 1K rm and 240K rm.... and the nonsense talk about mandatory vs voluntary and EPF is here to promote some senses, with a pinch of salt about new members being impacted.

These are the "parameters" EPF and PMX are pre-empting us about.

If we just focus and think about the parameters, we all pretty much can guess the extend of this can impact us.... hmm.gif

High High wealth amount... not a problem.
Low wealth problem: loss of freedom but could end up a good thing.
Middle wealth.... need to retweak one's plan.

** special category... too much EPF as % of wealth... as you said, re-eval
Wedchar2912
post Jul 7 2023, 09:52 PM

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QUOTE(faizfizy39 @ Jul 7 2023, 09:45 PM)
New members also can consider as new parameters being born since xx.
It think changes is inevitable. Workforce sectors now is not similar as decade ago. EPF will adapt to be relevant. Gig workers esp, don't have EPF. Should expect more changes to come, surely they will find a way to target these people.
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true... new members we can assume either by age/year of birth like those born after 2005,
or could be based on actual date of a person be a EPF member after Dec 2023.

I prefer the latter criteria.... that will give more comfort (again, politicians can say new things regardless) that the "old" members can depend on EPF not to pull the rugs under us straight to 6 feet under before our time... nod.gif
Wedchar2912
post Jul 8 2023, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Jul 8 2023, 01:36 PM)
law says so... manage until 50 (ori i think)... then 55... now 60... biggrin.gif

future extend to 85... lock down 240k for slow drawdown... excess can lump sum... i support... laugh.gif
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was it? 50?

what i can remember when I was in secondary school was a teacher of mine took the time to talk about working/career and retirement. Remember he mentioned that government servants can opt for early retirement at age 50 (male) or 45 (female) and still get the normal pension. He said something similar in private sector.

maybe that's where the 50 comes from? did casual google search, but nothing old info came up.

Imagine that... back in 1990s, 45 is achievable for early retirement if one is a female...
Wedchar2912
post Jul 9 2023, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(sirius2017 @ Jul 9 2023, 10:52 PM)
user posted image

Look like EPF's proposal to make it mandatory for new members to withdraw their savings periodically instead of a lump sum upon reaching 55 years old will be a generational change. Existing members optional.

Generational change = 20 to 30 years time?

Poster claiming govt agreed monthly epf withdrawal is fake
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maybe EPF finally done with their data crunching.... and it shows that wages will remain low with low to negative population growth....

need ways to stem the flow out from EPF or gov coffers.... the true crisis will only start in 20 years time it seems
Wedchar2912
post Jul 9 2023, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jul 9 2023, 10:10 PM)
...

where got people in here RM0.01m ?
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I believe the RM 0.01m here means 10K rm.

m sometimes is used in corporate world to means million...
Wedchar2912
post Jul 10 2023, 12:43 PM

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waiting for someone to say that 10 million ringgit is not enough to retire.... waiting.....

smile.gif
Wedchar2912
post Jul 10 2023, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Jul 10 2023, 01:00 PM)
my parent retired at 50k... also survive...

you live with what you have when it's time to retire...

worse ask from friends or kebajikan.

live in malaysia, sure wont die.
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but there is a difference.... I believe your parent had help from their kids (you). this helps a lot...

many may not be so lucky.
nonetheless, agree with you... in terms of starving to death, Malaysia is still not that bad. relatives, good friends, kebajikan and gov do provide help.
Wedchar2912
post Jul 10 2023, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(poweredbydiscuz @ Jul 10 2023, 02:13 PM)

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that didn't take long.... lol...
Wedchar2912
post Jul 10 2023, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Jul 10 2023, 03:10 PM)
I always thought the 10M is in cash form and not locked with loans. So, my calculation is based on the 10M cash, and not in the networth form
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the traditional and standard way of calculation should be based on networth, where networth is all assets - all liabilities.
Some take it a bit further by not including one's primary residence in the calculation.
(I don't include things like cars as my assets even though its all been paid off, but some people do include certain things like paintings or antiques as assets)

If use just the definition of cash form, it won't make much sense as cash historically earns the least return.

By using this definition, and by properly deploying one's networth, suddenly you will realize that 3% return is way too conservative.
We should be aiming like 8 to 10% return type nowadays since globally interest rate is much higher vs back in 2010-2020 era.
Wedchar2912
post Jul 11 2023, 06:38 PM

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QUOTE(sirius2017 @ Jul 11 2023, 06:25 PM)
KUALA LUMPUR (July 11) The Employees Provident Fund has clarified that there is no change to the current lump sum withdrawals at age 55 and 60 for its existing members. The current EPF monthly withdrawal option only applies to members who voluntarily opt in.

In a statement, the EPF said the proposed mandatory monthly withdrawal option will only apply to new EPF members born in or after 2010, and registered with the EPF after the implementation date.

"The first payout under the mandatory option is only expected to be made when these new members retire, some decades in the future. This proposal is still being refined, and the EPF assures that any decision regarding the mandatory monthly withdrawal option will only be made with careful consideration and alignment with the EPF’s commitment to the best future interests of its members," the statement read.

(More to come)
EPF: No change to lumpsum retirement withdrawal for members
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Great news.... tqvm for sharing this article.

we all members can ignore all the noise already. Silly gov and EPF... should have started with this first.
Plus does this mean the "p" scheme is safe till 2050 at least? tongue.gif
Wedchar2912
post Jul 12 2023, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jul 12 2023, 02:38 PM)
...
but  8-10% is rather ambitious... what  you have in mind?
...
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its a general statement only... that's why the phrase should be aiming...

cos we are too used to low interest rate environment that some of us, myself included, need to remember that US and UK rates are like 5%. SG rate is around 4%. And these are classic risk free rates in their respective currencies. So, slapping on a risky component should compensate us at least 3 to 5% right?

lagi lagi we are Malaysians.... with a depreciating ringgit means foreign asset return is higher in ringgit terms.
Wedchar2912
post Jul 16 2023, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(HolyCooler @ Jul 16 2023, 03:16 PM)
Thanks for the info.
Yup. That is their lifestyle.

My FB has over hundred of angmoh friends due to a certain hobby i have. And in real life i have some closed angmoh friends too included Serbia, Ukraine, Sweden, etc.

Their lifestyle really surprised me when i first get to know them. It is something like, today earned enough to go holidays, then will spend all the money on holidays, after no more money, back to work. Once earned enough again, go to enjoy again. Same for collecting collectibles, when they have money, they will buy it, when they need money, they will sell it with the mindset "i can buy it again when i have money next time", despite the collectible is very rare and hard to get again. Nothing wrong with such mindset, but really very difference from Asian especially Chinese people's mindset.

But i do have a few angmoh friends in real life who are planning for their future by saving more money. But majority angmoh i met are mostly with the mindset today got beer today drunk's type.
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well, it could be that they have trust and believe in their country's social safety net like social security in America and NIS in the UK. Many of the developed eu countries have decent social security schemes.
Malaysia don't really have anything close, while SG wants to make sure one have enough money left in CPF to burn/cremate oneself.

imagine say one can expect payment of 2K rm per month from malaysia gov at age 60... wouldn't one be more willing to enjoy life when one can?
(eg from US's social security where at retirement can get like 2 to 3K usd per month)

btw, Malaysia also got one group of people that is like your angmoh friends.... the gov pensioners.... they also live a decent carefree life.
Wedchar2912
post Jul 16 2023, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(HolyCooler @ Jul 16 2023, 07:11 PM)
From what i observed and understood, they aren't expecting the government would do anything for them or have faith in the government system, but more like they didn't plan for retirement and thought they could continue this kind of life style till they are leaving the world, they have no planning to save money at all.

A few days ago, one of the angmoh up a post saying he didn't want to continue that kind of life style anymore (slave to materials, and always need to worry about not enough money to pay bill), and wanted to sell all of his collectibles.

Talking about faith with their countries, i saw my USA friends always complaint about the government, mostly the abuse of monthly money gave by the government to those un-employed people, these angmoh who work hard feeling very angry because they believe most of their tax money going to those drug addicts or those people who never want to work. I was also lurking in some western gaming forums, they are some USA people who publicly admitted they abused such system to get monthly money and no need to work, their PC hardwares are all bought with such money from the government. Have a Malaysia friend, one of his relative living in Australia, got over millions of money / assets, over 50-60 years old, but the relative still able to apply monthly dole money due to she is unemployed, kinda fucked up i would say.
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Well, humans in general can be very contradictory and tends not to be truthful (to themselves even).... Its like trusting the judicial system... when the judges rule in one's favor, all is fair and good. But when the result is not in one's favor, the judge is corrupted/unfair.

I know US citizens may claim they don't believe in the banking/financial system, but they still keep their funds in USD and with a bank.
or our Malaysia's version... not enough money to retire, but what do some of us do? When Moo allowed 10K withdrawal from EPF, guess what the majority of B40 did? take and spend.... human nature...

hence I believe somehow these angmoh still believe their gov will provide something to them when they are older...

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