ah.... but there is another reason why I don't want kwsp to handle.... if possible, kwsp should not be involved in these kind of "charity" / UBI.... already so many rubbish going on without free money from EPF to select group of people.... later they start taking all the gains from EPF to legally and officially distribute as UBI then how?

must be selfish and think like a thief once a while... if I want to raid EPF, this UBI will be one of the best way to do so... all dead people I make them alive again....

a fantastic reason to implement UBI....
since gov is already supporting such a large % of the population already.... this 4.2 million is like 20% of the adult population of Malaysia.
vs 16 million of working adults, that is like 26% of population.

well, I rather discuss useful things like the idea of UBI than others hijacking this thread to propagate racial nonsense like why certain group has less money in epf or about tiering of EPF dividend.... when the real issue is basically lack of decent, respectable wages in Malaysia.
And any scheme to help the poor regardless of skin color is already going to help the majority more.

So back to the topic of UBI... there are many versions... the simplest UBI is too expensive... fine, then we can look at Zahid's top-up UBI... 2208 rm per household is 1K per person.... the diff is only the B10 group gets the benefit. And here you go, already can afford... only 2 million persons, which is RM 24 billion per year to gov of Malaysia. Cheap cheap...
To benefit a larger group, more tweaks will be needed like cancelling petrol subsides ( reported by former FM to estimated 28 billion rm for 2022), APs, cancelling all other BRIM etc,
(attaching a old pic of subsidies by the edge back in July 2022)

At the end, the gov has to do all the homework and proper analysis to make this a success. (Rafizi likes to claim that he is damn good in analysis rite? Do this is better than vending machine for nasi lemak) The amount of charity, donation and leakages in Malaysia are so great that UBI of some sort will definitely work.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 9 2023, 12:30 PM


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if memory serves, pension and defined benefit schemes are more prevalent in greece and many of the european countries. So it is more like our civil servant's pension scheme.

so if anything, civil servants here should be more worried about our gov's spending habits than anyone else.

also, should the unthinkable happens, EPF's exposure overseas of almost 40% would be worth a lot more in myr terms.... imagine ringgit crash to 10 vs usd... mgs is worthless, but the 40% overseas will increase in price in ringgit terms.

Hence why my confidence in EPF...

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 9 2023, 05:06 PM

yes please.... in 20 years I will definitely be a senior citizen..... can set the age lower a bit as senior citizen can ar? so that I can enjoy a bit longer...

unfortunately I don't know....

but as we all know... who knows what malaysia gov and/or its machinery is capable of...

like now if you are in a medical emergency and about to die, the security guard can bar you entry into the emergency room to seek medical help simply cos you are wearing shorts....


sad joke aside, officially EPF can be forced to bail out gov of Malaysia already... EPF can be easily persuaded to subscribe to any and all issuances of MGS as is.... so... no point worrying abt this part.

this will be a very interesting experiment.... how is PH gov going to get around the fact that funds in EPF is creditor proof?

I am just very curious... if PMX allows B40 to use their EPF balances to secure loans, why is he not allowing M40 and T20 to do the same?

I mean, surely banks know how to judge who can borrow from the banks rite?

now imagine IF ONE HAS 4 million in EPF, can ONE borrow 3 million at BR?

If it is 1% as borrowing cost, can I transfer everything except 1 million in my Account 1 into Account 2 and borrow everything against Account 2?

throw into bank FD also good already. haha.

B40 in EPF or B40 in income tax? haha....

nowadays very confusing this B40 title...

there is a distinct, although very small, probability that GOM will face difficulty in honoring its pension obligations... if the numbers mentioned by other forumers are ballpark accurate, we are talking about 2 million persons on pension... that is like 10% of adult population enjoying essentially defined benefit schemes. (this is as of now... number will surely increase)

we should shift everyone into defined contribution schemes, essentially offload the responsibility of retirement back to individual citizens... but ops... already the media and gov implying the B40 already too stupid to handle their own finances... how to shift?

SVB is essentially a bank run... of course their gapping activities didn't help but these activities don't seem to the main cause. just large depositors pulling their money out over the past 2/3 days (from the few articles I bother to read)

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 11 2023, 02:46 PM

nice.... can PMX just allow everyone access to this great scheme and let the banks decide how much they want to lend them?
I mean, whats the point of claiming it is to help the poor (lesser than 10K rm), and now extend all the way to 1 million? really whats the point???

in some sense, Anwar is saying desperate means desperate... may look rich, but if desperate, so what.... help also.

This is not a easy problem to solve by just asking here. But what I can inform you is that
a) the money in EPF is creditor proof (ok, ignore what PMX just announced recently as we have no idea what is going to really happen)
a1) can nominate beneficiary and this is handled outside the normal will execution process, and is a lot faster.

b) funds in EPF is essentially invested very broadly, very diversified and comes with a minimum 2.5% guaranteed return in ringgit
(it is almost 40% invested overseas too!)

c) with just 1 time work at initial setup stage, your parents can keep their funds in EPF earning X% dividend rate up until the date of withdrawal, and your parents can choose any amount to withdraw at any time they choose via online. No need to walk in to office also.

Example of ©, lets say monthly expenditure is 15K rm.
If you take out 15K rm immediately on 1st of June, the 15K rm earns dividend rate up till 31 May.

instead, if take out 3.5K rm on 1st of June, and then remainder 11.5K on 8th of June, the 11.5K rm earns dividend up till 8th of June.
11.5K rm for 7 days extra at 5% pa (example) = extra 15 rm to buy 2 chicken rice for both parents to eat.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 11 2023, 05:43 PM

can I say desperate for my kid
and also desperate for myself because market crashed and I needed new funds to buy shares cheaply... but in same time EPF is capital protected with 2.5% guaranteed return....

hehe... I am liking PMX more.... but still annoyed at 5.35% div for this year. lol

If I am PMX, I would say can....

but how much would it really cost?

its not... one process that EPF can improve on....

like what prophetjul said, around 2 biz days is also my own experience.

yeah, the funds earning interest/dividend of the year until the day of withdrawal is a (efficient) reason why I just keep 5 to 10K buffer in my savings account.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 12 2023, 01:34 PM

why not buy 100kg of silver and put under the bed? haha.... harder for people to steal also.

the answer my parents gave me is that it was a very different world back then. not as much info about investing/money management back in 1980s, 1990s and early 2000, besides the usual excuses of being bz raising the kids and making sure all are well fed and had the best education they can afford... (guilt trip kau you somemore)...

so in a way, they are right. 1990s.... information travels slowly and there was no google even.

this is silver, not gold.... purposely choose silver cos I cannot afford gold of 100kg. haha.
silver 100kg only 300K rm. cheap cheap.

but in the same token, if kids have no right to make sure parents don't squandered away their funds, does this also mean the kids don't have to take care of the parents when that scenario happens?