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 EPF DIVIDEND, EPF

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prophetjul
post Feb 21 2019, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(ChessRook @ Feb 21 2019, 01:30 PM)
Have a looked at note 25 of the 2017 financial statement.
The reserves are not what layman think as reserves. The reserves are accounting attribution and revaluation due to unrealised gains/losses from the assets they hold. These reserves are there so that the users are able to see the gains / losses for the current year (even when the assets are not sold yet).
My previous posting about the reserves are wrong and i will amend that.

user posted image
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Thanks!

This is helpful. Looks like the reserves are not be cashed out yet. Hedging contracts, etc?
prophetjul
post Mar 13 2019, 08:18 AM

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Are there any financial transactions that you can make through the EPF website?


If not, what is the deal about security except for data?
prophetjul
post Mar 20 2019, 08:24 AM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Mar 19 2019, 04:59 PM)
The Employees Provident Fund (EPF) said today it anticipated further reductions in contributions as more workers go into the informal sector.

EPF’s new chief executive Tunku Alizakri Alias told international investors here that the total number of workers who contributed to the EPF had dropped drastically to just 40 per cent from 48 per cent from a few years ago.

“There might be a day that EPF may not even exist anymore,” Tunku Alizakri told Invest Malaysia 2019, a conference on capital markets here.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/201...ays-ceo/1734229

No more EPF  cry.gif  cry.gif  where to invest & get good "dividends" yearly
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I do not understand the 40% thing.
Is he saying not all workers contribute?
Maybe its the labourers on daily wages?

In any case, the future wages of workers contributing WILL grow. AND the PONZI will continue to feed me! laugh.gif
prophetjul
post Mar 20 2019, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Mar 20 2019, 08:44 AM)
maybe.. the "40% of workers" shows a CONTINUAL BLOATING civil sector, that selected retirement scheme instead of EPF scheme?
coz as i understand it, EPF scheme is mandatory for us un-civil tongue.gif sector, whether part-timer or full-timer.
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AAHHHhh..I forgot about them leeches! mad.gif
prophetjul
post Mar 21 2019, 08:33 AM

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“There might actually come a point in time in our lifetime when the EPF might no longer exist, because the amount of money being taken out will no longer be able to [be] supplanted by the amount of money coming in,” said Tunku Alizakri at the Invest Malaysia forum here yesterday.

Would you trust a CEO who makes statements like this?
prophetjul
post Mar 21 2019, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Mar 21 2019, 10:43 AM)
At least he being true...
Not like some, giving false hope. Everything is okay,but actually is not....

U want such situation...
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When you see a statement like that, what do you think of? Ponzi.
Why does it matter if contribution is less than withdrawal ? That is, if its not a Ponzi?
prophetjul
post Sep 11 2019, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(-CoupeFanatic- @ Sep 11 2019, 10:56 AM)
Can the Malaysian government just print money to pay off EPF holders in the event the fund does not perform as expected?

I mean it's not suppose to do this right? But it seems to me that nothing is stopping this from happening though.
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They seem to do it for the other funds in trouble eg TH.

However, They do not need to do that for EPF. EPF has unending perpetual cashflow coming in, unless commies take over!
prophetjul
post Sep 12 2019, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(honsiong @ Sep 11 2019, 11:50 PM)
RM4000 this year. Check again.
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Am I right to be thinking that is I am contributing Rm10k to my EPF, and my relief is only 4k, then in actual fact my balance of contribution of Rm6k is actually taxed by the gomen before being placed in the EPF?? Please correct me if wrong thinking.

If that be right,and if I am paying 25% tax on my income, then if EPF returns 6% pa, it will take 4+ years just to make the returns on paying the tax!
prophetjul
post Sep 12 2019, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 12 2019, 01:18 PM)
while waiting for responses,
here is an article that shows "sort of" tax calculation on EPF....

It is not hard for one’s EPF savings to get taxed. Based on the new, reduced RM4,000 relief for EPF contributions, someone earning above RM36,364 a year (RM3,030 a month with zero bonus) would see their EPF savings subjected to some level of income tax, back-of-the-envelope calculations show.

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/stat...duced-next-year
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Looks like I am correct.

QUOTE
Someone earning RM10,000 a month — who contributes at least RM13,200 a year to the EPF and pays about RM12,580 in tax annually as he or she falls under the 24% tax bracket — is actually paying RM2,208 in taxes on income that is actually EPF retirement savings they cannot spend.


So if you are in the tax bracket of 24%, it will take 4 years at 6% pa returns from EPF just to pay your taxes! mad.gif
prophetjul
post Sep 12 2019, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(Dratini @ Sep 12 2019, 03:11 PM)
Sorry, I am a bit lost.
Income Tax is taxable regardless of you are contributing EPF or not right?
Do you mind elaborate why contributing in EPFs with 6% pa returns will takes 4 years to even out for taxes?
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Indeed, income tax is taxable regardless. That is where the problem lies. I do not mind being taxed for income which I can decide on what to do with.
But an EPF contribution is forced upon and taxed at the same time.

So, I am seeing my income stuck in a fund while paying a tax on it. So if my tax is 24% and EPF pays 6% pa, it will take 4 years to recover the paid taxes.
prophetjul
post Sep 13 2019, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Sep 13 2019, 11:46 AM)
Better than 401(k) or IRA's in US actually. In the case of 401(k) and traditional IRA, contributors get taxed upon withdrawal of the retirement funds, meaning the capital + gains will get taxed.
Our EPF earnings are not taxed, we will only be taxed at our income source. Come to think of it, we are quite fortunate that we have no capital gains tax.
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But we get taxed before investing. They do not get taxed if they put it into the 401(k)
And if they withdraw according to some conditions, there is no tax if my understanding is right.
prophetjul
post Sep 13 2019, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Sep 13 2019, 12:29 PM)
From my own understanding, there are indeed some special tax benefits when withdrawing under certain conditions, but tax benefit does not mean total elimination of tax. It simply means that there are certain conditions to meet in order to lower the amount of tax upon withdrawal. Under normal circumstances, withdrawal is still subject to the income tax rate at the point of withdrawal. That in itself totally defeats the purpose of the tax deduction in the first place.
One can do a rollover into another retirement fund when they leave the employer to avoid paying tax on the income immediately, but one will still need to pay tax upon withdrawal eventually.
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Interesting Jordy.

Thanks for the heads up. thumbup.gif
prophetjul
post Sep 13 2019, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 13 2019, 05:00 PM)
I dont  know why you guys are so allergic to EPF....can see so many scrambling to get money out to "invest" elsewhere........
just how much extra return they get i wonder......As if money in EPF is money lost for good
Alot of heresay, when reach 55  cant get money out etc,
all totally untrue!
instead of seeing 6% return as a chore requring 4 years to recover back the 24% tax taken by gomen,

i look at it this way:
1)i put 11% in , i get extra 13% from taukeh
2)instead of paying tax X amount i get to pay less tax from  EPF relief
3)Instead of struggling here and there investing and getting 4% return or lower
EPF is there to do it for you better
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who says anything about disliking EPF?

i just dislike paying taxes on my income which i have no control over.

Its so easy to make 8% pa in investments. You must be awful at investing to get 4% or lower! Even FD gets you 4% or more. laugh.gif
prophetjul
post Sep 13 2019, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(Dratini @ Sep 13 2019, 06:07 PM)
Easy to make 8% pa in investment? ohmy.gif
Mind sharing which platform you are using for your investment?
Investing in Mutual Funds and making negative profit for 2 years cry.gif
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Investing in mutual funds is expensive and waste of time.

Just simply buying some REIts will be much more profitable.
prophetjul
post Sep 13 2019, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 13 2019, 07:47 PM)
not refering to you alone on the disliking, but can read here alot of sayings to that effect.

So easy to make 8% pa??

I had made few years of 9% return, but overall i cant simply tell others "IT IS SO EASY...".
Misleading.
here is one example who is surprised  by what prophet professed.

In general most people dont consistently find it easy to make 8% pa.
if you read the FSM forums many made just FD returns even after years
We have forumners in here who invested in mutual funds and showed IRR 9+% over  >3 years.
Get the right fund sell the right time but that is exception rather than the rules

So is it  really that easy?
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Some assets are rather easy.
Like property over the last ten years or so.
Easy in the sense you do not have to watch it all the time.
i did the same with gold. Bought and just keep for last 17 years.

The difficult ones needed monitoring and more effort in trading them. More volatile stocks but greater potential returns.

i was not refering to mutual funds. Never liked them.
prophetjul
post Sep 14 2019, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(Dratini @ Sep 13 2019, 10:38 PM)
Ah, okay, I just started venture into Stocks/Shares actually and bought some Reits, after finding Mutual Funds isn't as breezy as it seems to be.
But then again, MF is for long term and market is just down right bad these 2 years.
Glad that I didn't buy wrong since you also suggested Reits, Thanks for sharing yo.

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Look at some of the MF performance through 5 , 10 years. Hardly impressive.
Some totally died and never recover. biggrin.gif And you are paying this FUN managers for these sort of performances? laugh.gif
prophetjul
post Sep 19 2019, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Sep 18 2019, 03:35 PM)
6% is not bad. 10% is raising red flag already. 15% is definitely scam.
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Why is 10% red flag?

Its a norm for a 'good' investor and a good asset class.
prophetjul
post Sep 20 2019, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(beLIEve @ Sep 20 2019, 02:44 AM)
If a person enters the market at the right time, it's possible. 15% p.a. is like 1.25% a month. Look at US market also easily fluctuate 3% when uncle donald tweets.

But anyway, my point is, s/he can offer any %. Whether s/he can deliver or not, or run run run run runaway with people's money is a different story. And it's investors that bear the risks.
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Timing the market is an impossibility.

And its not like making 15% for just a year.
The returns should be calculated at least over a whole economic cycle or more.
prophetjul
post Sep 20 2019, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Sep 20 2019, 09:09 AM)
How? Prop investing had been and will continue to be the greatest generator of wealth for most people...
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Think in this age, 'most' people will be happy just to be able to pay for the roof that they have.
prophetjul
post Sep 20 2019, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Sep 20 2019, 09:26 AM)
Sorry but I cannot understand your logic here...how is it that your money in EPF is paying a tax? Your 24% tax paid is on your income right?
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Yeah.....but my EPF income is Taxed and locked up for a time.

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