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 EPF DIVIDEND, EPF

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SUSfuzzy
post Jan 22 2025, 09:34 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Jan 22 2025, 08:53 PM)
M’sians Earning RM1.7k Monthly Can Save RM1mil By 55yo, Says EPF

https://weirdkaya.com/msians-earning-rm1-7k...-55yo-says-epf/

Balqais Yusoff, Head of Policy and Strategy at EPF, recently shared that steady contributions to the fund—paired with financial discipline—can lead to a comfortable retirement.

This RM1 million figure doesn’t even include any extra savings or investments you might have along the way.
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The problem is the RM1mil isn't going to have the same spending power. If I just use the inflation calculator from DOSM, RM1mil in 2000 is equivalent to RM1.6mil today. So what's the value of RM1mil when they hit 55?
SUSfuzzy
post Jan 23 2025, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 23 2025, 10:33 AM)
If they are 25 years old now, then at 55 years old

Rm1 mil will be 1mil/ (1.03.5)^30 =356k present value at 3.5% average inflation
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Assuming you retire at 60 and die at 80, you roughly have 1.5k a month to spend. whistling.gif
SUSfuzzy
post Jan 23 2025, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Jan 23 2025, 02:38 PM)
yeah... but who knows...

remember a short while back, lotsa news about how epf should disallow members to take all out... and must have minimum in epf, effectively forcing retirees to take annuities?

so... who knows what may change in the future. even retirement age may not remain fixed at 60...
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Because the retirees take the money out go give some online lover whistling.gif whistling.gif
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 5 2025, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 5 2025, 09:14 AM)
Just need to look how many people have 1mil & above in EPF.....

This people is the one can just survive with dividends yearly....

But I sure, they also have others sources elsewhere... Not 100% on EPF alone 😁
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I don't think I can survive with the dividends. It's like only 5.5k a month sweat.gif
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 5 2025, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Feb 5 2025, 02:25 PM)
Your expenses so high? Even without any loan commitments?
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I have 3 different budgets.

1) Rainy day requirements - if I stop earning money tomorrow and won't earn for the foreseeable future, what is the absolute necessary spending I need.

2) Comfortable requirement - If I still earn what I earn now and will continue to do so, what is the comfortable level I can spend.

3) Lux requirement - If I don't have to save a single cent now onwards, what can I spend (which is everything la).

So depending on which lo.

5.5k now isn't even paying for my house loan given I aggressively paying it down.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 6 2025, 06:22 PM

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QUOTE(gooroojee @ Feb 6 2025, 04:37 PM)
Do u prefer to pay down your house loan or to dump extra cash into EPF instead?
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I have been maxing out the EPF as well as aggressively pay down my loan.

Generally, people might agree it could be better to invest the amount to areas like S&P500. I do invest in it but I also want the comfort of not paying house loan tongue.gif
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 11 2025, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 11 2025, 01:39 PM)
In addition to being a burden for employers, the 2% mandatory Employees Provident Fund (EPF) contribution for foreign workers will not benefit them as most will not retire in Malaysia, say industry players.

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2025...foreign-workers
As usual...
Cheapskate employers don't want to pay anything at all... Even 2% is burden

whistling.gif
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As usual la. This is the comment when government first introduced minimum wages.

QUOTE
According to a member of the Minimum Wage Implementation Steering Committee, Sai Chin Hock, the mandatory RM900 per month minimum wage for peninsular Malaysia and RM800 for Sabah and Sarawak could put SMEs out of business.


10 years later, all SME went out of business? Sai is also the owner of Julie biscuits. Did Julie went bankrupt?
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 16 2025, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 16 2025, 01:24 PM)
I read somewhere...

Another fund, similar to EPF managed to get 12% ROI for last year... Their allocation for foreign portfolio is around 20%++ only...  Majority is in local...

I remember correctly, EPF foreign portfolio exposure is way higher.... 30% like that or little more....

So to get 6% is not really hard & impossible.... 🤔🧐😒
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Which fund is this?

EPF doesn't just have equities, they are also deeply diversified.

I found a state that for EPF, 47% invested in fixed income instruments, 44% in equities, 6% in real estate and infrastructure, and 3% in money market instruments.

So I'll love to see how the fund can get 12% from having 50% invested in fixed income items.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 16 2025, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 16 2025, 02:46 PM)
Okay...

I found it after typing 12% return & 1 week time period 😜

It's KWAP.....

Happy Reading

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/744325
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To be fair, that is total investment income. If we compare, EPF also recorded around 20% based on first 9mths in 2024.

https://www.kwsp.gov.my/en/w/epf-records-to...n-for-9m-2024-1

And secondly, KWAP has almost 55% on equity investment, plus they don't have to sell anything in order to fund Acc3.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 16 2025, 08:57 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 16 2025, 05:59 PM)
Then
EPF win lorh...

So close eye 6% can give already...

Please don't give BS reasons Q4 did badly... Thanks to Trump policies, forex losses bla bla bla.... So cannot perform well....

Monthly pensions $$$ from from where then?? 100% from government only...
KWAP just shake leg only?? Don't need to do anything...

Why need headache... Find good investment... Until 12% returns since $$$ not being used / payment for anything / anyone????....

And keep talking about account 3...
You got see not...
Account 3 withdrawal $$$  can somehow be covered by self contribution.... If including mandatory contribution... It's well covered....
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Investment income is not profit.

You hire 10 people to sell ice-cream at Rm1, and your COG is rm0.30, your operating cost is rm0.20, and you sold 100, is your profit rm100 or your revenue rm100?

For Acc3, it only started in May 2024, and they would need to sell the amount as whatever Malaysians wanted to withdraw. The self contribution comes in whenever, you can't plan withdrawal and funding based on that.

People keep forgetting EPF mandate is not to return highest interest, it's to keep up with retirement and inflation needs. If you think EPF is bad, then look at Temasek returning 1% in 2024.

And to add to it, you can't really compare EPF to the appreciation of S&P500, because that implies you plan to sell it every year. Rather, I equate EPF to FD, at the end of the day, I get my principal + dividend / interest.

If one cannot stomach that, they should invest in equities rather than self contribute to EPF, which I do think is a meh way to invest. That's why I don't self contribute unless I don't find anything worth to invest in.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 16 2025, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 16 2025, 05:48 PM)
That's why I said...

EPF must give at least 6% when even KWAP can generate 12% returns...

It's like 50% of it only....  Please tell me even 10% cannot be achieved....

I know cannot direct compared...
If not,
Sure straight I would say why No give 10% 😁
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I genuinely will be pissed if no 6% though and give me even more reason to not put in more money to EPF.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 17 2025, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 17 2025, 10:18 AM)
Maintenance must be around 21 - 23 February...
Then announcement.. after that system back online with $$$ credited in 🙏
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I thought last year was late right?
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 18 2025, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(theevilman1909 @ Feb 18 2025, 12:54 PM)
based on the history posted above.

looks highly on March 1st or 2nd announcements??
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High return they post early, low return late. So given they not doing anything between this few days, maybe no 6% tongue.gif
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 24 2025, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Feb 24 2025, 08:55 AM)
Confirm the rates better than last year...

Even the Finance Minister 2 already given out positive vibes &.hints...

Only question is how good & higher rates.... 5.8% or 6%
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5.8 vs 6 is a few thousand difference weh... 6.x pleasee
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 24 2025, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Feb 24 2025, 01:08 PM)
Monday, 24 Feb 202512:15 PM MYT
EPF to announce 2024 dividends on March 1, says source
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2025...ends-on-march-1

PETALING JAYA: The Employees Provident Fund (EPF) is set to announce its 2024 dividends this Saturday (March 1).
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Means good news if announce early March lol
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 25 2025, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(virtualgay @ Feb 25 2025, 11:29 AM)
maybe EFP must learn from KWAP investment strategy
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I already mentioned before, KWAP's is just investment return.



QUOTE
KWASA DAMANSARA, 11 November 2024: The Employees Provident Fund (EPF) recorded a total investment income of RM57.57 billion for the nine months ended 30 September 2024 (9M 2024), a 20% increase from RM47.86 billion in the corresponding period in 2023. For the third quarter (Q3 2024) ended 30 September 2024, the EPF’s investment income was RM19.67 billion, an increase of RM5 billion from RM14.67 billion in the corresponding period in 2023.


Until Q3, EPF did 20% investment income, so you want EPF to achieve lower returns?

But, this is income, so once they subtract whatever whatever is what we will get in dividends.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 25 2025, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Feb 25 2025, 03:20 PM)
I admit I think of EPF more like a ponzi scheme, as long as you still have people contributing then it is save, but we have reach a point where the society is aging. I have reservation towards EPF and mainly the government and how our money is being managed, being said so, I treat EPF as the cash that I can use in Malaysia whether through pension or lump sum withdrawal. While I can see many not regretting keeping the money with EPF, but we must also understand most stocks usually outperformed EPF and give as high DY as EPF. For one, if someone invested in DBS 15-20 years ago after withdrawal from the EPF, he/she would be sitting on at least have capital gain of >100%, excluding the forex gain, with current DY of 4+% which could be higher based on the buy price back then.

Having said so, I still don't think we should treat EPF as investment but we still shouldn't judge anyone withdrawing EPF for their own investment as it could turn out lucrative. During my early years of employment, I withdraw as much as I can so that I can have capital for investment, but I started building it back once those solid foundation are built.
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Erm, you have a capital gain of >100% every month when your employer puts in 12%. Can DBS can offer me 100% guaranteed return every year for the amount I contribute?

I do question those that topup over their requirement, but then again, 6% is better than FD so its a very good emergency account for me.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 25 2025, 07:25 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Feb 25 2025, 06:54 PM)
No such thing as guarantee in investment, thus my point is we should not treat EPF as investment. However my point being many, me included have trust deficit on how the government managing our money, thus many will prefer to withdraw when reach retirement, but that doesn't mean that they are losing out on EPF dividend because their investment might turn out to be golden.
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I think my point is, you get guaranteed 12% every month because government forces your employer to contribute into EPF (unless you self employed la).

DBS or whatever investment won't get you that amount.

It's tempting to think if we don't need to contribute to EPF, the 11% can park into DBS, but you forget they have at least 2-3 periods when the stock fell by 30-50%. Do you feel most can stomach that and continue to vest into it?

I think my Maybank shares also hovered around rm7 for ages before coming back to the price we see today.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 26 2025, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Feb 26 2025, 09:50 AM)
I see, understood. But if assuming there is no EPF and all employers already included 12% as the cost of employment, it will just pay out as salary - similar like how Singapore do for those not eligible to have the CPF account yet. I can stomach my investment value shrink up to 50% because I treat investment and savings in different pocket just that EPF somehow landed in the savings pocket.
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The one thing I learn, is that if my boss can pay me 12% less, he will pay me 20% less tongue.gif

But I agree with you, EPF is not in investment account, so it's not right to treat it as such.
SUSfuzzy
post Feb 27 2025, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(kens88` @ Feb 27 2025, 09:46 PM)
I can't remember. Is it next day after announce will credit in? Or they declare another date to credit in?
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Monday kot. When system is back online.
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