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 NEW SUKUK : DANAINFRA NASIONAL, >>> worth to buy?

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felixmask
post Oct 25 2013, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 25 2013, 11:01 AM)
Amount : Up to RM100,000,000.00
Nominal Value Tenure : 15 years
Profit rate : 4.58% per annum
Opening date for Danainfra Retail Sukuk offering : 24 October 2013
Closing date for Danainfra Retail Sukuk offering :15 November 2013
Listing and commencement of trading : 28 November 2013

Got some queries -
1) Any balloting for this ? balloting. else invest as Instuitional investor thru Bank.
2) If no balloting, do U get the bond the next working and interest start from that day ? wait until the listing day
3) What happens if more than RM100m applicants, the offer will stop and those who apply after RM100m will get refunded ?
    balloting, you may heard someting is over subscription...there is min allocation but only few percentage will hv full..the higher you put..the changes you get higher but the unit give will be less what you apply.  
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wil-i-am
post Oct 25 2013, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 25 2013, 11:01 AM)
Got some queries -
1) Any balloting for this ?
2) If no balloting, do U get the bond the next working and interest start from that day ?
3) What happens if more than RM100m applicants, the offer will stop and those who apply after RM100m will get refunded ?
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Refer to this link

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed...cements/1195285

http://www.mih.com.my/index.php?page=press


cherroy
post Oct 25 2013, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 24 2013, 11:15 PM)
Without thinking too much about this, I would say earning 4.58% interest yearly for 15 years is a pretty good offer, some more it's guaranteed by the Malaysian government taking into account FD rates since 1999 (15 years ago) has been way below 4.58%. As a sweatener, it is also listed meaning U can also hope to enjoy capital gains if the bond rise above the listed rate and U want to make tax-free capital gains profit by selling the bond.
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You need to take in transaction cost, if buy and sell incurred 0.4% (as same with trading share), means 0.8% gone.
4.58% - 0.8% means 3.78% only.

There is no reason to invest into a 3.78% bond when FD also can get this rate.

There is little upside for bond except if interest going down.
Bond is not as same as equities.
When mature, it returns you the face value only.
So bond final worth is fixed already, whether the price can go up or not depended on interest rate difference between FD and bond.

You can't treat a bond as same as equities aka hope the price of bond can fly as equities when IPO listing time.
SaProp
post Oct 25 2013, 12:35 PM

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In my opinion, if die die must buy, choose a good return reit is better than this Bond, 6 - 7% is norm.
elea88
post Oct 25 2013, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 25 2013, 11:30 AM)
You need to take in transaction cost, if buy and sell incurred 0.4% (as same with trading share), means 0.8% gone.
4.58% - 0.8% means 3.78% only.

There is no reason to invest into a 3.78% bond when FD also can get this rate.

There is little upside for bond except if interest going down.
Bond is not as same as equities.
When mature, it returns you the face value only.
So bond final worth is fixed already, whether the price can go up or not depended on interest rate difference between FD and bond.

You can't treat a bond as same as equities aka hope the price of bond can fly as equities when IPO listing time.
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thank you so much for this information. it save me some research time....
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 25 2013, 11:30 AM)
You need to take in transaction cost, if buy and sell incurred 0.4% (as same with trading share), means 0.8% gone.
4.58% - 0.8% means 3.78% only.
There is no reason to invest into a 3.78% bond when FD also can get this rate.
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There is no transaction cost if U buy thr' IPO and U hold for 15 years as on maturity U get back full principal invested.......means U get full 4.58% yrly rate.

If U buy from market and sell B4 maturity, say U buy at RM10,000 for 100 lots (1 lot = RM100) and sell after 6 years also at same rate f RM100 per lot.

Buy cost - RM6 brokerage (if U R using AmeSecurities) + $0 (Stamp duty is exempted) + RM3 (clearing fee - 0.03%) = RM9 which is 9/10000= 0.09%. Means for your 1st year, U earn 4.58% - 0.09% = 4.49%.

For year 2-5, U earn full 4.58% interest.

Sell at end of year 6 after u have received the 2 semi-annual interest. Sell cost. also same = 0.09%
U earn 4.58% - 0.09% = 4.49%.

If U average the 6 years interest = 4.49% x 2 + 4.58 x 4 = 4.55% yearly interest.


topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(SaProp @ Oct 25 2013, 12:35 PM)
In my opinion, if die die must buy, choose a good return reit is better than this Bond, 6 - 7% is norm.
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1) Bond is guaranteed by the Malaysian government, not so for REIT.
2) Bond rate is fixed, so U do not need to waste your time monitoring unlike REITs which can have wild swings in the dividend payouts, causing U to reshuffle your REIT portfolio.

wil-i-am
post Oct 25 2013, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(SaProp @ Oct 25 2013, 12:35 PM)
In my opinion, if die die must buy, choose a good return reit is better than this Bond, 6 - 7% is norm.
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Diversify yo investments ma...
wil-i-am
post Oct 25 2013, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 25 2013, 01:53 PM)
There is no transaction cost if U buy thr' IPO and U hold for 15 years as on maturity U get back full principal invested.......means U get full 4.58% yrly rate.

If U buy from market and sell B4 maturity, say U buy at RM10,000 for 100 lots (1 lot = RM100) and sell after 6 years also at same rate f RM100 per lot.

Buy cost - RM6 brokerage (if U R using AmeSecurities) + $0 (Stamp duty is exempted) + RM3 (clearing fee - 0.03%) = RM9 which is 9/10000= 0.09%. Means for your 1st year, U earn 4.58% - 0.09% = 4.49%.

For year 2-5, U earn full 4.58% interest.

Sell at end of year 6 after u have received the 2 semi-annual interest. Sell cost. also same = 0.09%
U earn 4.58% - 0.09% = 4.49%.

If U average the 6 years interest = 4.49% x 2 + 4.58 x 4 = 4.55% yearly interest.
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Very gud analysis n simulation
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 02:16 PM)
Very gud analysis n simulation
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Do we need to declare the interests we earned ? Is it taxable ?

wil-i-am
post Oct 25 2013, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 25 2013, 02:28 PM)
Do we need to declare the interests we earned ? Is it taxable ?
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Nope
Is tax free
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 02:38 PM)
Nope
Is tax free
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Yet another advantage of investing in this bond. Dividend on shares sometimes tax at source and U then need to claim back the over-payment - meaning U still need to pay at your current tax bracket, right ? Any idea what would be the tax bracket for someone earning RM5,000 per mth ?

This post has been edited by topearn: Oct 25 2013, 03:16 PM
wil-i-am
post Oct 25 2013, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 25 2013, 03:12 PM)
Yet another advantage of investing in this bond. Dividend on shares sometimes tax at source and U then need to claim back the over-payment - meaning U still need to pay at your current tax bracket, right ? Any idea what would be the tax bracket for someone earning RM5,000 per mth ?
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U r rite
No idea on RM5k per mth. It depends on deductions as well
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 03:21 PM)
U r rite
No idea on RM5k per mth. It depends on deductions as well
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What is your tax bracket then (if U don't mind telling, wink wink) ?

wil-i-am
post Oct 25 2013, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 25 2013, 03:26 PM)
What is your tax bracket then (if U don't mind telling, wink wink) ?
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Off record la.....
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 03:59 PM)
Off record la.....
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It's ok. I'm just pushing my luck. I would guess most middle-income group would have a tax bracket of average 10%.

topearn
post Oct 26 2013, 09:28 PM

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Current issue is the 2nd tranche with coupon rate of 4.58%, while 1st tranche only 4%, so does this mean this 2nd tranche is better than the 1st tranche ? Are all other terms & conditions of these 2 tranches the same ?
Chinoz
post Oct 27 2013, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 25 2013, 03:12 PM)
Yet another advantage of investing in this bond. Dividend on shares sometimes tax at source and U then need to claim back the over-payment - meaning U still need to pay at your current tax bracket, right ? Any idea what would be the tax bracket for someone earning RM5,000 per mth ?
*
From 2014 onwards, we're moving to single-tier taxation for dividends. All dividends are taxed at source, and not taxable at the hands of shareholders.

In the previous regime of franked dividends, if your personal income tax level is say 15% and corporate tax rate is 26%, you are able to claim back the 11% difference.

In the single-tier regime, even if your tax bracket is 0%, your dividends will still be hit with the corporate tax rate and you cannot claim back anything.
wil-i-am
post Oct 27 2013, 12:55 AM

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QUOTE(topearn @ Oct 26 2013, 09:28 PM)
Current issue is the 2nd tranche with coupon rate of 4.58%, while 1st tranche only 4%, so does this mean this 2nd tranche is better than the 1st tranche ? Are all other terms & conditions of these 2 tranches the same ?
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All T&C remain unchanged
2nd tranche enjoy higher interest due to longer duration
wil-i-am
post Oct 27 2013, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(Chinoz @ Oct 27 2013, 12:25 AM)
From 2014 onwards, we're moving to single-tier taxation for dividends. All dividends are taxed at source, and not taxable at the hands of shareholders.

In the previous regime of franked dividends, if your personal income tax level is say 15% and corporate tax rate is 26%, you are able to claim back the 11% difference.

In the single-tier regime, even if your tax bracket is 0%, your dividends will still be hit with the corporate tax rate and you cannot claim back anything.
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Corporate tax is 25%

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