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 NEW SUKUK : DANAINFRA NASIONAL, >>> worth to buy?

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topearn
post Oct 24 2013, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(davinz18 @ Oct 18 2013, 04:59 PM)
The first tranche already trading on bursa malaysia. You can check it out  nod.gif
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Where 2 find it ? Under what name ? nvm, found it...below RM1.00 - damn 98.5 cents only. S does it mean current IPO gone casE ?

topearn
post Oct 24 2013, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(lostandfoundlove @ Oct 24 2013, 10:24 PM)
i don't really want to comment too much but don't simply invest just because donkeys make it seem so easy, some time people brag just to make it seem they know everything. do your own research and understand the investment is always the first rule, otherwise you can be a donkey for life.
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Pl be careful of the words U use as U R saying those who comment positively about this issue are donkeys.

topearn
post Oct 24 2013, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(lostandfoundlove @ Oct 24 2013, 10:24 PM)
if you all want to lose money feel free to apply, it is always best to do you own research instead of following noises.

this is a capital market instrument broken down to retail investors, as a lot of posters had pointed out you will lose out on transaction cost. the cost is lesser for high net worth products if you really want to go into fixed income investment.

understand that for fixed income investment the value is negatively correlated to the movement in interest rate. if interest rate goes up than the value of your investment will go down. if your familiar with the interest rate regime you would understand that so far we have had an easing period. however due to that it has created a bubble that the government is now trying to control in the upcoming budget.

thirdly the longer the duration the higher the price impact. meaning a short dated bond will move less compare to a long dated bond for the same movement in interest rate. this is important because the issuer is issuing long dated bonds.

i don't really want to comment too much but don't simply invest just because donkeys make it seem so easy, some time people brag just to make it seem they know everything. do your own research and understand the investment is always the first rule, otherwise you can be a donkey for life.
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Without thinking too much about this, I would say earning 4.58% interest yearly for 15 years is a pretty good offer, some more it's guaranteed by the Malaysian government taking into account FD rates since 1999 (15 years ago) has been way below 4.58%. As a sweatener, it is also listed meaning U can also hope to enjoy capital gains if the bond rise above the listed rate and U want to make tax-free capital gains profit by selling the bond.

This post has been edited by topearn: Oct 24 2013, 11:16 PM
topearn
post Oct 24 2013, 11:54 PM

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QUOTE(lostandfoundlove @ Oct 24 2013, 11:28 PM)
one man poison is another man meat, i don't want to enter into long debates but I will just highlight why it is a bad investment

1) post listing you will not make a capital gain off the investment, the budget announcement is this Friday and they will put in place measures to control the bubble. this measures will tighten credit supply and increase cost of funding

2) 4.58% is nothing against "real" inflation figures, Malaysia CPI is commonly known to be rigged due to controlled subsidies and the way the basket is calculated. Actual food prices have been increase far above reported inflation numbers.

3) after transaction cost your buying at a premium, the guarantee only covers principal and will not compensate any premium over 100.

4) FD rates can be taken out without affecting your principal and 1 year cash rate can give you close to 3.5 - 3.6%. In fact you can even negotiate a higher rate if you have the cash. Why bother taking a risk of 15 years for that extra 1%?

If you can counter logical answers to my questions I will call myself a donkey.
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1) don't quite get your drift, so no comments.
2) We are not comparing this long term bond against inflation but against historical FDs, and 4.58% is way higher than past 15 years FD rates. Those who are keeping thier money in FDs are thus better of to buy this bond.
3) This is IPO and thus no buying cost.
4) 1% extra is a huge amount. 1%/3.5% = 28.5%, meaning U're earning 28.5% more.



topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 09:55 AM

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wil-i-am - U have subscribe to the 1st batch of this IPO - do U have to pay fees ? e.e. U buy 10 units costing RM1000 - do U pay RM1000 or RM1000 plus some fees like stamp duty, etc ?
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(kailc @ Oct 25 2013, 10:02 AM)
There is no fee when apply this sukuk except RM1 for Maybank, stamp duty is exempted when u selling this sukuk.
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If we sell say 10 lots PJDEV costing RM1,150 we need to pay brokerage + RM2 stamping + 0.03% clearing fee. Let's say this sukuk rise to RM1,150 per 10 units and when we sell, we need only pay brokerage and clearing fee - no need to pay the RM2 stamping ?

topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 11:01 AM

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Amount : Up to RM100,000,000.00
Nominal Value Tenure : 15 years
Profit rate : 4.58% per annum
Opening date for Danainfra Retail Sukuk offering : 24 October 2013
Closing date for Danainfra Retail Sukuk offering :15 November 2013
Listing and commencement of trading : 28 November 2013

Got some queries -
1) Any balloting for this ?
2) If no balloting, do U get the bond the next working and interest start from that day ?
3) What happens if more than RM100m applicants, the offer will stop and those who apply after RM100m will get refunded ?
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 25 2013, 11:30 AM)
You need to take in transaction cost, if buy and sell incurred 0.4% (as same with trading share), means 0.8% gone.
4.58% - 0.8% means 3.78% only.
There is no reason to invest into a 3.78% bond when FD also can get this rate.
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There is no transaction cost if U buy thr' IPO and U hold for 15 years as on maturity U get back full principal invested.......means U get full 4.58% yrly rate.

If U buy from market and sell B4 maturity, say U buy at RM10,000 for 100 lots (1 lot = RM100) and sell after 6 years also at same rate f RM100 per lot.

Buy cost - RM6 brokerage (if U R using AmeSecurities) + $0 (Stamp duty is exempted) + RM3 (clearing fee - 0.03%) = RM9 which is 9/10000= 0.09%. Means for your 1st year, U earn 4.58% - 0.09% = 4.49%.

For year 2-5, U earn full 4.58% interest.

Sell at end of year 6 after u have received the 2 semi-annual interest. Sell cost. also same = 0.09%
U earn 4.58% - 0.09% = 4.49%.

If U average the 6 years interest = 4.49% x 2 + 4.58 x 4 = 4.55% yearly interest.


topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(SaProp @ Oct 25 2013, 12:35 PM)
In my opinion, if die die must buy, choose a good return reit is better than this Bond, 6 - 7% is norm.
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1) Bond is guaranteed by the Malaysian government, not so for REIT.
2) Bond rate is fixed, so U do not need to waste your time monitoring unlike REITs which can have wild swings in the dividend payouts, causing U to reshuffle your REIT portfolio.

topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 02:16 PM)
Very gud analysis n simulation
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Do we need to declare the interests we earned ? Is it taxable ?

topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 02:38 PM)
Nope
Is tax free
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Yet another advantage of investing in this bond. Dividend on shares sometimes tax at source and U then need to claim back the over-payment - meaning U still need to pay at your current tax bracket, right ? Any idea what would be the tax bracket for someone earning RM5,000 per mth ?

This post has been edited by topearn: Oct 25 2013, 03:16 PM
topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 03:21 PM)
U r rite
No idea on RM5k per mth. It depends on deductions as well
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What is your tax bracket then (if U don't mind telling, wink wink) ?

topearn
post Oct 25 2013, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 25 2013, 03:59 PM)
Off record la.....
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It's ok. I'm just pushing my luck. I would guess most middle-income group would have a tax bracket of average 10%.

topearn
post Oct 26 2013, 09:28 PM

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Current issue is the 2nd tranche with coupon rate of 4.58%, while 1st tranche only 4%, so does this mean this 2nd tranche is better than the 1st tranche ? Are all other terms & conditions of these 2 tranches the same ?
topearn
post Oct 27 2013, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(Chinoz @ Oct 27 2013, 12:25 AM)
From 2014 onwards, we're moving to single-tier taxation for dividends. All dividends are taxed at source, and not taxable at the hands of shareholders.

In the previous regime of franked dividends, if your personal income tax level is say 15% and corporate tax rate is 26%, you are able to claim back the 11% difference.

In the single-tier regime, even if your tax bracket is 0%, your dividends will still be hit with the corporate tax rate and you cannot claim back anything.
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R U sure of this ? This is a big hit to those who buy stocks for their high-yielding dividends. Do U have the source of the info so I can check it out myself ?

topearn
post Oct 27 2013, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 27 2013, 10:19 AM)
In fact, a lot of Co oredi declared single tier dividend
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U mean single tier dividend is dividend which is already net of the corporate tax ?
I thought single tier div is company got tax credit and they use the tax credit to pay the tax so the dividend is non-tax ?

topearn
post Oct 27 2013, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(mopster @ Oct 27 2013, 02:14 AM)
hihi
i've a question on ETSB (Exchange Traded Bonds/Sukuk)
let's say i've successfully applied 1lot (10units of RM100).
I hold for 15 years until maturity...
on maturity, i should get back the face value, right ?
so my questions are:
1)what if it's traded at RM110 on the last trading day ? do i get back RM1100 or RM1000 ?
2)what if it's traded at RM90 on the last day ? do i get back RM900 or RM1000 ?
3)if i'm to get back RM1000 no matter what the last traded price is,.. does that mean I will have additional gains if my Average Bought Price is RM90 (for example)?
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3) Yes. If U pay RM90...on maturity U get RM100, additional profit RM10.

topearn
post Oct 28 2013, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(peri peri @ Oct 28 2013, 03:23 PM)
Anyone interested with this?

CIMB i trade reveal the price redi http://www.eipocimb.com/

rm100/unit

Any kind advise?
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This is a 15 year bond giving 4.58% interest, with interest paying twice daily and principal guarantee by the govt. If U like low risk and relativrly high interest rate, this is the counter for U - rate is much higher vs FD rate.

topearn
post Oct 28 2013, 06:11 PM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 28 2013, 04:31 PM)
Dun think so
Unless BNM drop OPR rate
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Agree. This govt-guaranteed bond has nothing to do with infrastructure. It is purely a long term financial instrument. If FD rates rise above this bond rate of 4.58%, then of course the price will fall below RM100 as people will sell the bond and reinvest the money in FDs; the opposite will happen if FD rates drop to say 2%, then this bond will be much more valuable and will rise much higher than RM100.

topearn
post Oct 29 2013, 09:13 AM

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QUOTE(peri peri @ Oct 29 2013, 08:55 AM)
Rm100/unit, i see why people not interested
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U mean it's too expensive ? U need to buy min 10 lots so RM1,000 is the minimum. So U think people cannot afford RM1,000 as if they buy Caring, min 100 units only RM125 ?


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