prosperity does exist in real life too, God reward us not only with riches but in other form of prosperity as well

God never promise that exact word "Rich" in the corporate world sense but very consistently God use the word prosperity which is the actual meaning.
Not Reward with riches in this life but provide with an abundance in this life which is there is a difference. That means more than enough.
It's in the scripture.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 2 2013, 05:38 PM

Rich in all are as reward but must not be greed.

Before I start anything, Let me share part of my life testimony so that you know where I'm coming from.
I spend time with God everyday. EVERYDAY. So I know I have a relationship with Him. It's a 2 way.
It's not about bragging, I don't want ppl to think I talk base on head knowledge, I talk through my life experience.

I went through a tough period (trial of life) pertaining in trusting him to provide even when I have nothing, my business went to a standstill, my car was stolen and I couldn't find any job in the market. But God miraculously provided for me n my family even until TODAY, So I KNOW what I'm talking about when it comes to God's prosperity.

I've experienced miraculous healing, So I know what God promised is true.

I've prayed for others and the major bulk of it was answered, so I know God is faithful.

I don't really care if ppl call me name, I know for certain, I'm a child of God and now his servant.

I believe in the Holy Trinity and Jesus Christ came in the flesh, died for my sins and now resurrected, seated together with the Father in Heaven.


Now to answer your question.

1. Before saying prosperity is wrong, look at the overall context of the preacher. See whether He links it with proper scripture verses to match. IMO, Legitimate need is valid, like house per say and whatever material goods. Because God is not blind, He knows what is needed in this time and age. We don't live in barter age anymore. We don't travel by foot nor with animals anymore, so whatever cost incurred in our life, God will provide. (Matthew 6:25-34)

2. Not true. There are abundance of verses that promised God WILL prosper us in THIS life. (2 Corinthians 9:6-15), (Proverbs 3:9–10), (Proverbs 10:22), (Philippians 4:19), (Deuteronomy 28:12–13), etc. To say that our reward is only meant for Heaven, makes no sense. We have no needs in Heaven because the New Jerusalem is a perfect Heaven where even there is no tears. If there is no tears, I believe it means it's not a fallible world with needs like this corrupted world. (Revelation 21:4) What makes you think wealth is of any use there? We need all the help we can get in this life because there are many people suffering. In Heaven God is our life, King and provider. Without Him we have nothing so Everything is provided there.
Even his glory shines and brighten the entire Heaven. We probably don't need street lamp (my personal guess).

Nothing wrong with the martyr of God in the past. God have always allowed persecution from people. This type of trial is to teach us and strengthen us. All the incidents, good and bad in the Bible was recorded to teach us. (Romans 15:4 ), Including the people who died. Being prosperous doesn't mean you won't die, duh. Where did you get the idea? Everyone will die no matter what. As to whether they died poor, that we don't know. As to why they are poor, how long they remain poor, that we don't know. But did God provide for them despite of them being poor, that I believe God does. Why are there still poor Christians today? Probably because not everyone desire riches. They are contend with what they have even if you dangle RM 1Million, it doesn't twitch their eyes. God honours everyone according to their Faith. Not everyone is rich but does that mean God has stop prospering his people? No. Is something wrong with them? No.

Just for discussion sake do you know we have a better covenant than Moses, something the people of the NT coveted even Job. The covenant of God's grace. What's my prove?

Read the whole passage in Isaiah 54 but I want to bring this to your attention;


…14"In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you. 15"If anyone fiercely assails you it will not be from Me. Whoever assails you will fall because of you. 16"Behold, I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals And brings out a weapon for its work; And I have created the destroyer to ruin. 17"No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their vindication is from Me," declares the LORD.

Do you see that why under the new covenant, it is not the same of old where it is not in the heart of God to let us suffer but the devil?

3. Of course. Who actually agreed that Christian should seek prosperity?

Bro UW, please clarify what is the meaning behind abundance which you speak of?

Does it mean the ability to order 10 plates of food when you eat out and only able to eat 1 plate sending the rest to the collection bins?

Does it mean we can buy a few SUVs and keep them in our garages for display while only use 1 at most all the time?

The ability to change your iPhone every 6 months or every year?

Over excess will only lead to vanity and how can we call that a blessing from God which it only destroy mankind and tempts man to sin?

If only the richest in the world would share their excess wealth with everyone else and keep enough to lead a pleasant life until he returns to dust, then there would be less suffering.
If only the trillions of dollars were spend to improve public amenities and improving civillian lives instead of funding world wars.

Can you afford to tell that to your rich elite church members which are a lifeline to your organization's bank accounts?

The printing of money and inflation is also a good example of vanity that we can learn as a lesson.

This post has been edited by Ahn3hn3h: Sep 2 2013, 11:54 PM

John 6 - Last and Conclusion

We have seen all six steps whereby Christ has made Himself available for us to receive: incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, becoming the life-giving Spirit, and being embodied in the Word of life. The Lord has been incarnated, crucified, resurrected, ascended, has been transfigured from the flesh into the Spirit, and has been embodied in the Word. The Word is the embodiment of the Spirit of the Lord. You cannot say that you do not know how to contact the Lord, for the Lord has been embodied in the Word. He is the Spirit and the Word. If you receive the Word, you will have the Spirit as your enjoyment of Christ.

The human, religious concept is what the Jews asked in verse 28: “What shall we do that we may work the works of God?” Throughout the Scriptures, it is only in this chapter that the religious Jews asked such a question. Religious teaching always exhorts us to do and do. Man’s concept is doing; God’s thought is believing.

The work that God desired and predestinated for us to do is to believe into His Son. The preposition “in” in verse 29 (“on” in KJV) should be translated as “into” according to the Greek text. The Lord Jesus did not tell us to believe Him, but to believe into Him. John 6 shows two ways of believing—to believe Him and to believe into Him. After the Lord answered their question, the Jews retorted in verse 30, saying, “What sign will you do that we may see and believe you? What work will you do?” They said, “Believe you,” but that was not what the Lord said. The Lord told them to “believe into Him.”

The preposition is exactly the same as that used in Romans 6:3 for “baptized into Christ.” As we have seen, to believe Him means to believe that He is true and that everything about Him is right. But to believe into Him means to receive Him and to be united and mingled with Him as one. When you believe into Him, there is a union and a oneness between you and Christ. In other words, you have come into Him and have received Him into you. According to the divine thought, there is nothing for us to do but to believe into Christ and receive Him into us day by day.

“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in Him.” For us, the work of God is nothing other than eating Christ, receiving Him, and living by Him. We must be adjusted in our human concept about working for God. Daily we must eat Christ in order to live by Christ. Several times in this chapter the Lord says that he who eats Him shall live by Him (6:51, 57, 58). Today’s problem is not work, but life. What kind of life do you live? Are you satisfied with the life you are living? If you do not eat and drink of Christ, you simply do not have life. If you do not have life, how can you live? Verse 53 says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.” The divine thought is not to work for God, but to take Christ as our food and drink. By eating and drinking of Christ, we shall be filled with Christ. Then we can properly live for God.

The strongest and strangest sentence in the entire Bible is verse 57. “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me shall also live because of Me.” The Lord who is the Almighty God and the Creator of the universe exhorts us to eat Him. Man could never have such a thought. If this word had not been spoken by the Lord, I believe that none of us would possess enough courage to say that we must eat the Lord. Of course, we can say that we must worship and fear the Lord, trust and obey the Lord, pray and work for the Lord. We may use many other verbs to explain what we must do for the Lord, but we would be afraid to think that we should eat Him. We all must eat three meals a day in order to live. In other words, we live by eating. Likewise, we must eat the Lord so that we can live by the Lord. The most important point in the whole chapter of John 6 is that the Lord is our food, the bread of life. To eat Him is not a once-for-all matter. It is a daily matter and even a moment by moment experience of the Lord. Whether in the East or West, people continually eat so that they may live. So, we all must also contact the Lord and eat Him. We are not merely weak people, but hungry people who need the Lord as our life supply. The Lord is edible because He is the bread of life. He is as edible as a piece of bread. We must exercise our spirit to feed on Him as the Word and as the Spirit. Then we shall receive Him into us, digest Him, experience Him, and apply Him moment by moment. This is all—there is nothing else. We must forget about our doing and our working and learn to eat Christ and live by what we have eaten of Him. This is the divine way of life for our daily living.

Can God help reduce petrol price and decrease burden of the ppl in Malaysia?

Hi Ahn3hn3h,

Abundance means having more than enough, as to how that materialize, that is in the hands of God to each person.
Not for me to decide.

How sure are you, everyone who have excess will be lead to a vanity?
You seem to generalize a lot. David had riches so abundant, He gave it almost all to rebuild God's temple. He's a king mind you,
far richer than the billionaires of today.

Have you not read in Luke 16 where being honest, trustworthy and one who knows his priority are the requirements?

No. God never asked us to use his blessings in vain.
He gives us so that we use it to help others.

Luke 16:9 (NLT)
Here's the lesson: Use your worldly resources to benefit others and make friends. Then, when your earthly possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an eternal home.

This involves paying back to your parents, your in laws, relative, neighbors, Church, charity, the homeless you meet in the street, etc.

I don't know why you have such explosive negative thoughts of others.

Don't you know God does not want us to harbor bitterness and resentment towards others?

1 Corinthians 13:4-5
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

That IS a command from God. Not to keep any records of wrongs. It means to forgive.

I know you may not be a perfect Christian, in fact nobody is, (myself included) but the irony is, if you know you're not perfect, don't put your high expectation on others as well.

Well I agree with you, the elite Rich should give back to society, by all means they should!, but what they do with their blessings, that is not for us to decide.
Let God deal with them. When I say let God, I really mean let God have the say and the right (we back off), our part is to keep loving others as Christ commanded.

I'm sure we have far better things to do than to feel resentment towards Rich elite Church members. I for one won't waste my time thinking about this.
We all have our own life to consider not others.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 3 2013, 11:06 AM

Better.

God will still provide to his believers no matter what.
And God provides NOT according to the up or down of this world economy BUT
according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus!

Since God will provide, we have nothing to worry about.

There is no generalization made and I firmed that excess only leads to vanity.It's a FACT

Selfishness and greed is synomymous with abundance. They are mutually dependent.Even if you relate inheritance brought down by by decendence, the sins of the forefathers are brought down to the latest offspring.

When you have abundance, there is high tendency that one would have it go to waste which is a sin when there are so many homeless mouths to feed out there on the streets.

1 John 2:15-17 (NKJV)

Do Not Love the World

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Will your Father bless you with something which will destroy your soul and character? Is spoiling your child considered a blessing?

Our Heavenly Father will make sure that we'll not suffer to unbearable conditions while temporary on earth and he'll prepare us a nice home when we past on in life.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (NKJV)

13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

1 Timothy 6:10 (NKJV)

10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

1 Timothy 6:9 NKJV)

9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

This you have the ask the people who governs the economy and central banks if they're willing to free the people up from slavery.
Or share their wealth with the public so that the money can return back to the country reserves.

Maybe we can ask the pastors and mega churches that pray for Solomon's wisdom to be bestowed upon politicians to start war in the name of Jesus?

Erm, Abraham wasn't destroyed, David wasn't destroyed, Neither was Soloman destroyed by greed, neither were they greedy.

You mean they were very rich with money which is today's most associated word with wealth?

Today's definition of wealth is mostly measured with monetary value. How many properties, cars and gold you have which does not get compared with monetary value?

I give it to that fat humpty dumty pastor who seek for Solomon's wisdom so that his country would go to war. I don't blame him for doing that because he's been paid handsomely by warlords to go on TV to give a speech like that.

Yup they were very rich.

They wasn't destroyed by greed, neither were they vain nor selfish.

So there goes the idea that abundance is synonymous with Selfishness and greed.

erm prove it from Bible passages.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 3 2013, 11:39 PM

err No?.....this below.

Greed and pride led to great lapses on Abraham, David and Solomon's part. Did they make it? Yes, but by the skin of their teeth.
what incident?

What has that got to do with their abundance?

I don't see the connection.

Anyone can lie, has nothing to do with money.

Abraham lied for his life sake, not because of his riches.

David and Soloman lusted. What is the connection between lust of the flesh with abundance?

Because....

Even middle income or less well to do group can lust after many woman.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 3 2013, 11:54 PM

Bro, God called David a Man after his own heart.
Called Abraham his friend. Favoured Joseph every step of the way.
Blessed Soloman as the wisest man on the planet.

Would God bless them with something that would destroy them?

The answer is no.

Therefore what's the rationale of your point.

I've already said you can't have abundance without greed and selfishness in the same context.

That is like saying money is evil.