u already asked that question. check page 13.

" UM is a new school that have already achieved PAM Part 2 accreditation. infact, they are the first school in msia that have received RIBA part 2 accreditation.... "

azarimy...

why is this so... ? i hv the impression that no other school will outdo UTM in architecture education in Malaysia... is it something like the ISO where organization can apply and hv the organization checked...???

How much does a fresh grad earn?

well... to put long story short...

UM staff is made up of a lot of ex-UTM lecturers and graduates. in 1995 when they setup the school, it was already geared for RIBA accreditation, not PAM. part of RIBA's requirement is the intakes must be from A-levels/STPM, hence UM immediately have that in mind when they setup the school. UTM only started the new curriculum in 2003, so we have about 3-4 years to go for RIBA accreditation.

but it doesnt really matter to most archi students. PAM's Part 1 & 2 is already recognized as RIBA equivalent. if u have part 1 and u want to continue to further overseas, u can just do so no problem. but if u want to WORK in the UK, that's where it matters.

UTM still have the vast experience, resources and tradition in architecture education. only when the staff joined UM, that isnt something anybody can do about. UM is a new school, so it's easy to implement/apply new stuff. UTM on the other, have too many old schoolers that i just need to get rid off . dont tell anyone!


with government, they start at RM1889 + allowances (about RM300). private sector, depending on the size of company, can start from RM2000 to RM2500. companies other than KL, penang or JB will typically range between RM1600 - RM2200.

within 5 years with good experience and skill, u should be able to earn between RM2500 - RM6000. and 10 years, up to RM8000 typically. Part 3 holders will usually earn between RM5000 to RM13,000 depending on experience and skills. if u're the principle of the office, technically u can just put any number u want. my last boss always take 15% of the fee. if the project is big, then he got big lah. if not, not lah.

fees are generally 10% of entire project cost. a RM100,000 rennovation means RM10k will go to ur office. Rm20mil project means RM2mil for the office. a small office of about 10 people can run 5-6 projects a month.

I used to be paid Rm1800 when i was working wif my Diploma. Lucky of me to found a good company actually.

But Singapore pays more. SG pays an average of S$1500-2000 for Diploma TAs and about S$2500-3K for graduate architects.

All these figures depend mainly on your portfolio, capabilities and what you can offer to the firm.

i know one archi lecturer that left UTM for UM... Shaari... Drives a Volvo back then in 98... Used to catch a ride in his car to KL.... U know him??? If i remember correctly he has a firm in KL... Karya Budi.... Rings a bell???

My bf also a architecture student from Lim Kok Wing..Just finish his second year course...wat a release!!!

For me..this course need to study hard...especially when final summition for the design model...no extra time for u to relax...i reali hope i can help him..sign...

Final year is coming...good luck!!!

By the way..who knows the "REVIT" sofware? izzit reali help for architecture student?

This post has been edited by sha01: Jan 11 2007, 11:37 AM

Shaari used to be an archi student in UTM. He is now a Prof and head of Department of Architecture at UM.

I think he has his own practise now.

This is from PAM if ur interested.

SAARI OMAR ARCHITECT
Address : A-2-2, Sri Intan Kondominium Business Centre
No. 17, Lengkok Selingsing, Off Bt 5, Jalan Ipoh
51200 Kuala Lumpur



I know its hard being the boyfriend/girlfriend of architecture students. This course always puts burden on relationships. Having another architecture student as ur partner is much better as he or she understands the pressure and workload.

REVIT is a very good software from Autodesk. I've toyed wif the software once and found it quite interesting to use but the software lacks the tools to make more creative 3d models. U build models in REVIT, and placements of each door, windows and components are marked by the program and you can generate 2D working drawings from the software easily. Its cuts time if your design is very simple and not too complex.

haha...it happens to me...sad story...my ex is biotech students and realyy don't understand my arch life and than after 5 years we break just after i'm in the first year of arch...hmmm....no time for outing or watching movies, especially when final submission is coming...

ofcourse i know saari. he used to be my tutor, my mentor, my boss and now a colleague. he's here in sheffield now, doing a 1 year out-programme for his PhD in sheffield hallam university, studying about british housing system. i used to work in karya budi, which now has shifted near KLCC, not jalan ipoh anymore. he's my first experience of people speaking english in STRONG kelantanese dialect.

hah... good luck being his gf. but look at the brightside, once he graduates, u'll be part of the social elite amongst the professionals . IF u guys managed to stay that long, that is... (jahat aku ni muahahahha!). but to be frank, there's gonna be lots of pressure. i'm talking from experience, and as u can see, other people had similar experiences as well.

OMG, architecture sounds tough as hell. It looks like it takes a toll on your social life and probabbly health. No time to watch movies?????? How to get inspiration then?

What is it you guys do during that final summition? Is the thing you guys do a lot of maths? What is it exactly? What is it that takes SO MUCH TIME? Can a person actually complete the task with more than enough time to watch daily tv and other things beside the architecture course?

we're talking about design here. why it takes so long is because there are a multitude of questions that needs to be answered all at once, and at the same time, u gotta draw WHILE conversing with urself (reasoning and rationalizing). not much math there. i can safely say all u need is form 3 math to survive architecture, nothing more.

in designing, u're multitasking 80% of the time. have u seen somebody designing a logo? okay it usually takes about 10minutes to sketch a logo, and about 20minutes to draw it properly. all along rationalizing what is needed and what not.

in architecture, u'll be rationalizing the ENTIRE building. what size the beam should be? where can i put a column? what material could enhance the sense of serenity in the building? what level would the floor be? how far should i put the bathroom from the kitchen? can a person pass through this corridor? does the fire-regulation allow me to use small window? and so on...

each element or artifact in the building has to be rationalized. assessment is based primarily on the design. ur ability to draw will immediately reflect ur thought process, bcoz if u cant draw (slow), u will spend too much time drawing and not much on thinking. if u think to much, u might not have enough time to draw. and juggling everything back and forth.

what if u couldnt answer ONE question in a series of a thousand. what would u do? sleep on it? wait till tomorrow? try a best-guess solution? ask a friend? quit the course?




the process cycles infinitely until submission day. one attitude architects CANNOT afford to have is "cepat puas hati". u can see these bunch floating down as bottom feeders. and with "cepat puas hati" comes "it's not finish until u submit it".

so that explains why designers dont spend much time outside their circle.

So it's not really headcracking right? Just about drawing first, then seeing if it's practical and stuff right? Basicly continuous improvement until date of submission right?

How much time is normally given to do the task?

loh.... Ye ker?... last time i met him was about middle of last year at UTM Semarak... Biasa laaa... checking up students' project... hell guess it will be a good time to visit Sheffield laa this year... My kid bro-in-law leaving for Sheffield for his aircraft maintenance course this 22nd... That's why i asked bout Sheffield a few days back...

Do kirim salam to Mr. Saari... Kata ke dia Peja member Nije kirim salam... Mintak jd host kat Sheffield buley?

Basically a design exercise can last anywhere from 6-9 weeks, mayb longer for more complex projects.

Although we are continously improving our design all the time, we must know when to draw the line to stop and say enough is enough. If not, any other addition or alteration to ur design, you'll have to alter the corresponding drawings etc.

If you think moving the staircase looks easy in plan, wait til you have to draw the other plans, and alter the sections as well. So there must be a line where we stop altering our design, and continue to work wif the best design so far til submission date.

you design with pc right?

from my experience...i started with manual...then after learned autocad, photoshop, 3d max, illustrator, got confidence, then i started using pc...it was when i was is 3rd year...

most of us do our works using PC but there are one or 2 who are still doing it the manual way.

For our design, usually we start off wif a rough sketch of our idea. We will usually continue to develop our design on paper til we reach a stage where both students and lecturer are confident enough that we can develop further on that particular design scheme.

then we'll translate that design in the PC and develop further from then on til its completion.

Do you find architecture course very stressful? Anyone who has done business degrees and architecture can please elaborate more on the stress undergone by the students?

Anyone doing architecture course, what was your toughest, bitter experience in your course?

yes, architecture is very stressful. and not just me, i believe a lot of people in this course will agree with me. but its just a matter of managing ur time. the rest will fall into place neatly if u could manage urself.

i doubt there are many people in the WORLD that actually have taken a business + architectural degree. so i'm not sure if we can actually compare these two course objectively. but i know a study that have been done here in sheffield, comparing architecture to civil engineering courses. the initial conclusion is architecture has a different level of stress that will descend on ur shoulders. stress of studying engineering is very similar to the stress handled during SPM/STPM, only a little harder. so i can safely say that for architecture, u might need some time to get used to to the stress.



to me, the toughest part of learning architecture is during 5th year. at this time, u're on the verge of completing ur entire architectural syllabus apart from the design thesis. there is only one project during 5th year, and that is urban design. in this project, u are to handle the development of an entire urban setting, usually a small town like taiping, kampung baru, alor setar and so on. this is actually the first and only project that u will conduct in a group, and believe me, one of the harderst people to work with for a designer is other designers.

at the same time, i was juggling with the student body's post as head of a subcommittee, handling the 14th national architectural workshop, personal life and lots of other things. at the end, my group and i decided that lets just give it up, and start again next semester. we were so determined to do this, and even have proposed the idea to the studiomaster. but he said, "u guys couldnt fail even if u wanted to."

apparently he was so fond of our design idea, he and other panel of assessors have already given us an absolute pass BEFORE the assessment. so eventually it turned out allright, the committee was fun, workshop successful. but the stress really got to me. until today i could still feel it.