If Arnold's workout is useless shit then he wouldnt have been who he was to begin with. He is not a coach coz he is making LOADS MORE MONEY as THE TERMINATOR! Come on man, if his workout is USELESS, he wouldnt be Mr Olympia 7 times and 6 of it back to back year over year!

And not being able to deadlift 4 plates doesnt mean anything. If you could lift 4 plates but with crappy form, makes u a bigger idiot compared to anyone who deadlifts 30lbs but perfect form.

Yes. The whole point of Starting Strength routine is to hit 1RM of these goals:

2 Plate bench. (225lbs)
3 Plate squat. (315lbs)
4 Plate deadlift. (405lbs)

If you can't hit these, whatever you have achieved means nothing.

It's not about how much you look like you can bench. It's about how much you can bench.

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Added on September 19, 2012, 10:55 amMy argument is in the terms of training. It's ridiculous to bring up the fact that he is a celebrity.

1) Back then, information from proven scientific studies based on nutrition and training were limited. Bodybuilders went with whatever their instinct told them to do.

2) He is on juice. Anyone with a shitty routine and diet will have much better gains than those who are natural, regardless of their training regimen, sleep time and nutritional intake..

3) Not everyone is as gifted genetically as Arnold was.

4) If physique = level of knowledge, why not listen to the roidheads in the gym who preach rubbish to back their ego up?

5) If you can deadlift 4 plates with a crappy form, you for sure can deadlift at least 3 plates with perfect form. Therefore, far more superior than a scrawny deadlifter who can't even deadlift the 45lbs bar.

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 19 2012, 11:04 AM

1) most "pros" don't know how to clean......

2) "You are a beginner......"

3) Calling out ARNOLD!

I don't know who you are pal, but unless you just received your IFBB Pro card or competed in the 2012 world powerlifting federation, you're making a mighty lot of assumptions here. And you know what they say about assumptions and asses.....

I am a beginner. I stand by the fact that most "pros" don't know how to clean. Bringing Arnold into this debate is ridiculous.

Could you clarify what assumptions I am making? Or if I'm making any stupid remarks? I'll be more than happy to cite my claims.

another SS fanboy. it never ends. madcow is nuts when done right. kaspersky is a reg here and he does madcow. unbelievable strength when i trained with him. dont diss programs because you read too much.

bro splits? like the ones 90% of the people here are using? post up a pic and show us how well you fare against the regs here.

most programs work. its just finding one that you're comfortable with. bodybuilding isnt -just- about strength. it depends on the individual goals. if yours is strength then fine, doesnt mean everyone thinks the way you do.

and the way you emphasize "if you dont deadlift 4pps you're nothing" pretty much says you can do it. Prove it. I want a vid by next week else whatever you say here is null and void. Play with your pokemon cards instead.

The assumptions that unless somebody deadlift 4 plates still considered beginner assumption. The Arnold on juice assumption, that his workout is bro science bullshit assumption. Too many assumptions on your side while you are merely a beginner. Read too much?

if a 7 time mr olympia were to give me advice, and you doing the same, who would you think im gonna listen to? He's not a coach because he went into the movie business, making a crap load of money. He does not have a large following for his training routine because hes not a coach. get the cycle here?

Last i checked, strength was checked against your bodyweight, not how many plates you could lift. So. Much. Ego.

and on the contrary, bodybuilding isnt about strength. its physique. its not how much you can bench, its how much you look like you can bench.

its ridiculous for you to argue why is he not a coach in the first place.

i dont get why you're trying to discredit a 7 time mr olympia. he forgot to shake your hand when he passed by you?

with more knowledge, you obtain the ability to differentiate between crap and good advice.

crappy form does not improve with lesser weights. not all the time.

maybe fabians94 is Kai Greene? He didn't yet got Mr. O title, that is why so much hatred for Arnold.

Madcow is a terrific program. However it's frequency and volume is too much for a beginner to handle. I was only using it as an example for OP.

I am only 159lbs and therefore I have nothing to prove.

I'm emphasizing strength because there's really no point in training if you're jacked as hell and benching less than a 140 pounder.

I don't deadlift 4plates. I haven't even reached the 3plate mark.

Pokemon cards are fun, lol.

You can flame all you want and be defensive. An intellectual debate is all about standing your ground and proving what you think and feel is right.

Anyways my stats as of today:

Bench: 140lbs 3x5
Squat: 230lbs 3x5
Deadlift: 285lbs 1x5
Military Press: 100lbs 2x5
Front Squat: 155lbs 3x5

Here's a video of me deadlifting 125kgs. 1x3, 1x2. My form has its flaws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqAeBhu97Ik&feature=youtu.be

I'm going to drop the topic on Arnold.

In Rippetoe's book, there was nothing pertaining to weight to strength ratio. Those were the target lifts.

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 19 2012, 11:19 AM

Do you think that a 220lbs man who bench 225lbs has reach the target when a 165lbs man can bench the same? Those poundage, albeit it is quite big, doesn't take any consideration on the lifter's weight.

Strength is based on the person. If he can bench 1X his bodyweight, that ain't gonna be impressive compared to 1.5X or 2X. Sure, SS is good with all the Mark Rippetoe fan based but everything is not about strength.

You want to go for strength style, go for it. It's your choice but having made some bs assumptions make you look stupid.

LMFAO @ "bro split". That one always cracks me up.

Dude some advice - just because people emphasize physique doesn't mean they aren't strong. Since you're only a beginner maybe you should shut up and lift for a few years before you start calling people out.

Everyone has different training philosophies because we all have different goals.

oh now you're saying its terrific?

you know why you're getting flamed right? you got your vision set up so narrow that you believe what you do its the best way and therefore everything else is wrong. Even arnold.

wrong mentality for a public forum.

why are u telling us your weight? by your standards of strength, BW shouldnt even matter. the number of plates you deadlift does. am i wrong here?

dont come in here guns ablaze bible thumping and expect us to nod our heads and acknowledge you and your advice. reading and actually doing it are two different things.


and dropping the barbell after a set of deads? really?

i wonder what your gym owner would say if i did the same thing with my max.


FYI
in powerlifting, the very event to measure strength. your total poundage for all three lifts are divided by your BW for the total score.

This post has been edited by mikehuan: Sep 19 2012, 11:39 AM

Like I said, I was merely using it as an example. Madcow, wendler's, SL, anything that is proven IMO, is good.

My vision is narrow, only because I'm emphasizing the fact that SS is the right program for a beginner.

I told you my weight because you wanted proof or smth like that lol.

I'm not advising, my case in point is that SS is the ideal routine for a beginner.

I know how powerlifting is measured. If you can't perform those lifts that a beginner should aim for, your weight shouldn't be taken into account IMO.

you should be a politician. in malaysia. right wing. nuff said.

Clear rounded back on the last rep. Congratulations, keep that up and you're headed for a hernia.

Now you know why I don't deadlift regularly. I like to push to failure and the last few grinds usually lead to sloppy form. In deads sloppy form = really bad news.

dude your legs are skinny
time to eat more and less typing

and FYI alots IFBB bodybuilder they dont do bench press and deadlift
physique is their goal
strong can be alots of term,they can be strong in particular lift
what if you can deadlift 4 plates but when move house i ask you to carry 2 tables from 1st floor to 6th floor
in this time i am sure a crossfit people done better than you
strong ? nah.just different goal

This post has been edited by theCrab: Sep 19 2012, 12:34 PM

DB presses and other chest movements are far more superior compared to bench for optimal hypertrophy. Which is what an IFBB pro is aiming for.

I don't know about the perks of crossfit. So I can't say anything.

I understand your view when you mention different goals.

But IMO, even if someone intends to focus on hypertrophy, a stronger strength base will lead to much better gains.

That's true. Doing Dumbbell Row with 110lbs is far much more better gain than using 50lbs but compound movement isn't the answer. Sure, it does helps the overall muscles built but saying that you need to deadlift 4 plates so that it can help you do 110lbs one arm dumbbell row is nonsense. The carry over isn't that great. So, the only way to train to lift heavy weight is to, train that exercise.

I disagree. Carryover is more than you think.

Speaking from experience, I didn't do squats until my gym acquired a power cage few months ago. Hit a pr immediately on the first session itself.

My deadlift poundages went up considerably during the times I didn't squat.

For squats, the deadlift sure helps it but for one arm dumbbell row? Owh yeah and bench press too. My deadlift and squats are good but bench press are sucks.

This post has been edited by alien9: Sep 19 2012, 12:54 PM