http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.p...35564721&page=1

Fine if you must attack, I'll be more specific; Modified SS. Power Cleans is useless unless you're going to compete in some weightlifting competition. The program lacks some accessory work.

When I said don't "change" the program, I mean switch to a different one like a useless bro split or madcow 5x5. Modification for the better is never a bad option. Read that thread.
you need a balance of everything. As long as you get your min amount of protein and eat 10% above maintenance and sleep well, you'll be growing regardless.

Most of Arnolds training consisted of pure bro useless shit. If his training is as useful as you might think it is, why was he a bodybuilder and not a coach? Why doesn't he have a large follower base only following the training he proposes?
Powerlifting consists of 3 major movements. The bench press, squat and the deadlift. These 3 lifts are the major compound exercises in determining ones strength level.

The deadlift works the entire body thoroughly. Traps, lats, lower back, quads, hams, glutes, shoulders and core.

Other movements are mainly referred to as accessory work. (farmer's walk, pullups, etc.)

Bottom line is, if you can't deadlift 4 plates, you're still a beginner.

Yes. The whole point of Starting Strength routine is to hit 1RM of these goals:

2 Plate bench. (225lbs)
3 Plate squat. (315lbs)
4 Plate deadlift. (405lbs)

If you can't hit these, whatever you have achieved means nothing.

It's not about how much you look like you can bench. It's about how much you can bench.

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Added on September 19, 2012, 10:55 am

My argument is in the terms of training. It's ridiculous to bring up the fact that he is a celebrity.

1) Back then, information from proven scientific studies based on nutrition and training were limited. Bodybuilders went with whatever their instinct told them to do.

2) He is on juice. Anyone with a shitty routine and diet will have much better gains than those who are natural, regardless of their training regimen, sleep time and nutritional intake..

3) Not everyone is as gifted genetically as Arnold was.

4) If physique = level of knowledge, why not listen to the roidheads in the gym who preach rubbish to back their ego up?

5) If you can deadlift 4 plates with a crappy form, you for sure can deadlift at least 3 plates with perfect form. Therefore, far more superior than a scrawny deadlifter who can't even deadlift the 45lbs bar.

I mean switch to a different one like a useless bro split or madcow 5x5.

Like I said, I was merely using it as an example. Madcow, wendler's, SL, anything that is proven IMO, is good.

My vision is narrow, only because I'm emphasizing the fact that SS is the right program for a beginner.

I told you my weight because you wanted proof or smth like that lol.

I'm not advising, my case in point is that SS is the ideal routine for a beginner.

I know how powerlifting is measured. If you can't perform those lifts that a beginner should aim for, your weight shouldn't be taken into account IMO.

That's true. Doing Dumbbell Row with 110lbs is far much more better gain than using 50lbs but compound movement isn't the answer. Sure, it does helps the overall muscles built but saying that you need to deadlift 4 plates so that it can help you do 110lbs one arm dumbbell row is nonsense. The carry over isn't that great. So, the only way to train to lift heavy weight is to, train that exercise.

A derogatory term used by hardcore purist powerlifters/strength trainees who only think compounds are the means to an end to categorize conventional bodybuilder splits.

You obviously have the knowledge and information to back your decision up.

1) you're swole as fck
2) you're way beyond any beginner routine

This whole dispute started because I was encouraging SS but I discouraged cleans. Everything else was based off mere misunderstandings.