It's my pleasure to discuss with you here.

Fundamental investing is not just about dividend yield. Like WB said, first rule, don't loss money. To buy a sky high growth stock (ie EPS up 1000% suddenly), yes, it's capital gain may happen overnight to earn profit of 10x, very happy. But what is the hit rate? So some will gain (huge), but some others will loss (also huge). What WB means is, at least, on a fundamental strong company, the capital at least can be reserved (if not slightly loss). This is about play safe.
But I'm not promoting must 100% play safe, I'm just pointing out this point.

got ID liao
the password and link dunno

W t/p could be 16sen with 5sen premium. All in 21sen

0034 w started from 6sen to 17sen today

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Aug 16 2012, 11:56 AM

A lot of people willing to pay more something they know. It is unfair to take unknown stock as comparison.
And some of investor probably invested in the stock way long time ago and they try to add more stake.
I agree that is not the best option for our money for some people, but for some people it is probably enough.
You're too over concern the word "investor" mate. It is their money, people have their own preference on how to invest/trade/speculate or whatever.

Bro, no need to quote famous investors leh but since you brought it up, did you know that WB had always insisted that growth is part of value? This is one factor many fail to realise. Thinking is simple. How can a company be considered great or of value when there is no growth in earnings? It really goes hand in hand, growth and value.

So based on that example, I guess you admit the yield of 4.2% is not attractive. Then what about earnings? Earnings is ify. Y-Y shows small decline but Q-Q shows tremendous turnaround. So question is simple. Based on the given FACTS, would that unknown stock be considered an investment?

WB started to dump those fundamentally strong consumer stocks in US.

Maybe he is also learning on how to take profits, rather too long term.

He is in properties where nobody wants

Not for Capital gains if no profits reported by co

Turnaround theme perhaps .

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Aug 16 2012, 12:07 PM

The problem is when I use the name, people here are biased to the answer. The stock name means much more to them than the actual facts.
Can this be right?
Should you invest based on the company name or should you invest based on actual facts?
Haha... looks like i have shaken the mighty 'investing' in this forum. Kinda good, isn't it?

Many fail to remember WB has one acccount in which he trades quite a fair bit. In this account, because the size of the position he buys isn't big, he doesn't report those transactions.
Many still don't realise that WB sells. He doesn't buy and hold forever for ALL his stocks. There are many he will sell for a good profit.

Our local WB Alex Lu follows him to give sell calls on Consumers too.

Really?
I don't agree! Why I hold something from Holland!

Eh? No sell call yet on R*** yet?

LOL, the word 'investing' always different meaning to other people. And Seriously, nobody cares.

Well said Boon3, a company without growth is entering a mature stage. Some investor might cash out seek for better return, some might enjoy the fruits, again different people with different perspective.

Soros and Paulson move are speculating another wave of QE coming in next few quarter, WB still looking forward Real estate in US will make a come back.

Haha! I know. They call me anti investors.

Hey, based on that example, without the stock name, would you consider that as an investment opportunity? I would dearly love to hear your answer.

Thanks.
Seriously I accept different perspective.
But at least, since this is an open forum, lets hear all the different views. Let me be the anti I. Just share the views and not use different perspective as a blunt execuse.

Now here's something interesting I read this morning.

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...81&sec=business
That Singapore reit promised a 6% yield payout....
Now isn't that a much better prospect than....... (better don't say name, people so sensitive)
Plus point, Sing dollars so strong and stands a better chance to grow vs our ringgit.

Small investors like me got no money to invest in Singapore, so have to be satisfied with what local offers lor...

Another thing is, i still don't understand why people still interested investing in Genting?
That uncle lim took RM100mil+ from Genting and RM50mil+ from GentingM, but dividend?

Seriously i don't feel comfortable investing in it, he treat those minority shareholder like nobody when his family able to control >50%. If want to take profit, declare dividend and share with all shareholders, don't take a large portion and enjoy himself.

AFAIK, Singapore is a place for rich Malaysian to park there money, in case anything happen, no need travel to Switzerland so far away

This post has been edited by yhtan: Aug 16 2012, 12:40 PM

Isit He WB speculating in real estates too.

What are the past good track records of real estates for last few years ?

100mil+ from Genting and 50+mil from GentingM?
And what about GentingP and Genting Singapore?
If add those two in, how much?

I heard ppl buy Genting for their annual free room vouchers lah. True ah?

Once again, you need to open up your mind in discussion.

Yes, I don't think 4% yield is attractive. But EPS growth is not the major concern for many investors, especially institutional investors. Because you should know that valuation of a stock plays a key role on share price upwards, if you haven't realized this key point. Just take a look at Padini, Nestle and Dlady. Their EPS growth are much much lower than their valuation growth, which makes its share price upwards so huge.
And I don't see you really open up your mind to listen what I mentioned about management skill etc. As an investor(as how you look at yourself, obviously), you cannot look at short term EPS growth because that could be unsustainable. Does this make sense to you? Or you don't care at all (as an investor)?

Speaking of Panamy (no need play secret lah, we all know we are taking Panamy as an example here).
Let me list to you its EPS history:

(FY year)-sen
2008-85.73
2009-82
2010-85
2011-136
2012-109
2013-30(1st Qtr)

And then please compare the above EPS with the attached 6 years share price graph.
What do you see from there?
The EPS is sustainable for few years and then it grows strongly, and then it slows down. But overall, it's consider sustainable, unlike some other companies that got huge loss or above 50% decrease while economy gets worse. Look at the graph, it's obvious that it's the valuation appreciation that pushed the price up so huge. Any investment takes time to grow fruit. A 3 years time to grow fruit is common for any business. This you also should know, right?
Future growth? Lets talk about future growth. Panasonic Japan HQ starts to move out some of its production lines to other countries. Malaysia already one of its target, this is also obvious, by looking at their recent investment in Malaysia.

I spend a lot of time to discuss with you, because I like discussion. I always think discussion can benefits many people. But pinpoint has no benefit at all, only create chaos and hate. I don't like that at all. Please don't do that. Just discuss according to our discussion points on the topic.

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Added on August 16, 2012, 1:00 pmAs a senior player, I don't expect you to talk like that. Sorry to say this, Sky taikor.
For real estate investment, we all knows can't look at such short term, and we also all knows it depends on world/country economy situation. As for US case, of course we can't look at 5 years time since that's exactly the time it suffered crisis. Why you brought up such misleading opinion?

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Added on August 16, 2012, 1:02 pmI think WB dumped those too high valuation consumer stocks, to buy high growth potential fundamentally strong O&G stocks. High growth is not the opposite of Fundamentally strong. They can co-exists.

This post has been edited by yok70: Aug 16 2012, 01:02 PM


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The reason why I chose to ignore management issue because no one likes to talk about that here. The assumption is that everyone just accept it as good. However, since you started on it, I had highlighted before (but got no answer. LOL! I wonder why) I had asked why the MANAGEMENT had parked the bulk of the money into that account classified as 'placement of funds with related company'? That 'safe' deposit, as i joked about here, is worth some 460+ million. Now is what's the management doing it here correct? Yes, that said fund gives back Panamy some interest but the interest payment is not consistent and the rate is low. Do check yourself. Last I saw it was a little more than 3 percent. (Any feedback on this or am not going to get one?)

EPS. I would have love to talk about EPS growth. Now that you had diligently brought the table, how exactly would you define these numbers?

(FY year)-sen
2008-85.73
2009-82
2010-85
2011-136
2012-109
2013-30(1st Qtr)

Would I call that a growth stock based on that numbers? No. I would call it a company which had tremendous short growth in 2011. It just hit the jackpot in 2011 (Was the reason based on the sudden growth in housing projects in Middle East?) and since 2011, the numbers are showing decline.
Yes, as you said it correctly, the earnings grew suddenly. This has always been my opinion but as you know, discussions on this stocks in recent months were totally biased towards dividends.

And you remember the one reply I made on comparing DLady and Panamy? I asked why DLady shares kept growing and why Panamy did not? Was the answer earnings growth?

Ok company's products. I like Panasonic products. I am fanci. However, sad thing is, they last too long. Just the other day, my friend wanted to buy fan. I told him don't worry and I ordered 3 units of Bayu fan for him. See unless there is another housing boom, I don't think we going to see much boom. That's my opinion. And yes, the flat TV boom. That helped Pana earnings too right? But that boom, that looked like it has peaked. This is my observation lah.

___________

And the conclusion?
A company with 'questionable' (no growth) earnings and a possible dividend yield of 4.2% yield based on current prices.
Is this an attractive investment proposition?
If your own answer is no, then how do you expect other investors to buy up this stock?
That's really my simple question to you.

This post has been edited by Boon3: Aug 16 2012, 01:19 PM