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yuen1985
post Dec 19 2012, 06:58 PM

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EXACTLY..they will let you take the products equivalent to the ''membership'' fees you paid.
ChroniclesIY
post Dec 20 2012, 04:20 PM

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Aiyah.. why you reveal so fast.. i was trying to make that fanboi admit it.. haha.. oh well =)
yuen1985
post Dec 20 2012, 05:38 PM

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lol..who..? me? sweat.gif
ChroniclesIY
post Dec 20 2012, 09:12 PM

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not you.. exlish.. haha =D
wailup
post Dec 27 2012, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(kopi_panas @ Dec 27 2012, 01:35 PM)
Nuff said,mc ocean penipu..

Best part,my childhood best fren the one i trust oso tipu me bcause of this..

If u very good putar belit and mulut manis,u can join this..lol
*
your fren maybe already kena brainwash la.. so, dont blame him. tongue.gif he didnt tipu u.. he just got manipulated.

those penipu, becareful of 'god punishment'.
empro
post Dec 27 2012, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(ChroniclesIY @ Dec 19 2012, 06:01 PM)
So i was right.. you sell membership into the company..

I ask again what products you give.. you say you give retail price so why should i join the company when i can go out to the shop to buy the products?

if you really give products at retail price and if i leave within 6 months i get 90% of my money back then I should join up get the products and leave.. so i only pay 10% of the retail price for the products.

sounds like a good deal, what products do you give? don't say you give like RM30k worth of toilet paper la.. that one i smack you..

more importantly HOW does the company get the money to pay out to members?

It is based on new members coming in? if no new members come in then how?

What attracts new members to join? What service do you provide to attract new members?

What you tell me is basically you sell membership into the company
*
The funny thing about your all your post is that, u're trying to sound smart and condemning mlm. I believe u have yet to venture into a business like this. You don't even know how mlm compensation plans work! Omg! FACEPALM! So before u condemn, educate yourself first.

The basis on how MLM works is through the sale of the product. Ie. Either through sales or people who join. The company receives the money and gives a pay out to the distributor or the upline. Oh yes, and on the 90% money back guarantee within a certain period of time, of course you have to return the products la! Another Facepalm for u!

So in the ealier posts... MLM gives you two options, either to sell or to recruit. Its FLEXIBLE and u can use either strategy (very similar to insurance industry). If u r against recruiting, then feel free to sell and I'm most glad to have a worker like u! I do agree that how people are forced to join is wrong and not ethical. But if a person sees an opportunity to do this business then why stop them? Its people who tarnish the image of MLM by the way they do things!

And in regards to failing and not succeeding in MLM, let me give u a glimpse of real life. Only 3% of the population is ultra rich, 10% live a very comfortable life, 60% work for a living and 27% require financial support. They say in MLM only the top 5% of people only succeed and the rest fail... So can u guarantee me that in your lifetime u can be in the top 10% of the population? If u can't does that mean u fail in life? And be another person sitting in a myvi condeming the person in a BMW that drives by?

Well, let's put it a conventional business perspective, did you know that 90% of all new businesses fail within the first 2 years? And yes that's hundred of thousands of lifetime savings down the drain. Ever wondered why u sit in a kopitiam talking about doing a business but nothing really happens? Its because 1. U don't have the cash 2. U know how high the risk is.

So, u decide nvm la I will continue working my way up the corporate ladder... I used to work in HSBC as a manager. And I thought to myself how to be a CEO? Then I realised HSBC had 300,000 staffs.... So that will be a probability of 1 in 300,000! Wah! I play toto 4D also have higher chance of winning! 1 in 9999 chance!

Haha! There are 3 types of people in life... 1. People who makes things happen. 2. People who sees things happen. 3. People who wonder what happened. So categerize yourselve and if u r no.1 pls come and find me and together we change our lives!

wailup
post Dec 27 2012, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(empro @ Dec 27 2012, 05:19 PM)
So, u decide nvm la I will continue working my way up the corporate ladder... I used to work in HSBC as a manager. And I thought to myself how to be a CEO? Then I realised HSBC had 300,000 staffs.... So that will be a probability of 1 in 300,000! Wah! I play toto 4D also have higher chance of winning! 1 in 9999 chance!
HSBC manager? "are you damn serious"?
yuen1985
post Dec 27 2012, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(empro @ Dec 27 2012, 05:19 PM)
The funny thing about your all your post is that, u're trying to sound smart and condemning mlm. I believe u have yet to venture into a business like this. You don't even know how mlm compensation plans work! Omg! FACEPALM! So before u condemn, educate yourself first.

The basis on how MLM works is through the sale of the product. Ie. Either through sales or people who join. The company receives the money and gives a pay out to the distributor or the upline. Oh yes, and on the 90% money back guarantee within a certain period of time, of course you have to return the products la! Another Facepalm for u!

So in the ealier posts... MLM gives you two options, either to sell or to recruit. Its FLEXIBLE and u can use either strategy (very similar to insurance industry). If u r against recruiting, then feel free to sell and I'm most glad to have a worker like u! I do agree that how people are forced to join is wrong and not ethical. But if a person sees an opportunity to do this business then why stop them? Its people who tarnish the image of MLM by the way they do things!

And in regards to failing and not succeeding in MLM, let me give u a glimpse of real life. Only 3% of the population is ultra rich, 10% live a very comfortable life, 60% work for a living and 27% require financial support. They say in MLM only the top 5% of people only succeed and the rest fail... So can u guarantee me that in your lifetime u can be in the top 10% of the population? If u can't does that mean u fail in life? And be another person sitting in a myvi condeming the person in a  BMW that drives by?

Well, let's put it a conventional business perspective, did you know that 90% of all new businesses fail within the first 2 years? And yes that's hundred of thousands of lifetime savings down the drain. Ever wondered why u sit in a kopitiam talking about doing a business but nothing really happens? Its because 1. U don't have the cash 2. U know how high the risk is.

So, u decide nvm la I will continue working my way up the corporate ladder... I used to work in HSBC as a manager. And I thought to myself how to be a CEO? Then I realised HSBC had 300,000 staffs.... So that will be a probability of 1 in 300,000! Wah! I play toto 4D also have higher chance of winning! 1 in 9999 chance!

Haha! There are 3 types of people in life... 1. People who makes things happen. 2. People who sees things happen. 3. People who wonder what happened. So categerize yourselve and if u r no.1 pls come and find me and together we change our lives!
*
So are you one of the SP in MC Ocean? hmm.gif
empro
post Dec 27 2012, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(wailup @ Dec 27 2012, 05:42 PM)
HSBC manager? "are you damn serious"?
*
Yes, for HSBC Premier Banking. I also have a learn to swim business with several partners. Plus I'm also into MLM...

Have a business man point of view, always see the opportunity and grab it. But always help people sincerely if u do MLM and build them up cause their success speaks the loudest for you.

People who fail in MLM is because they have the thinking of, u pay me I move my a** but people who has the initiative move their a** first then reaps the benefits.


Added on December 27, 2012, 5:56 pm
QUOTE(yuen1985 @ Dec 27 2012, 05:46 PM)
So are you one of the SP in MC Ocean?  hmm.gif
*
Lol! Why so keen to know? Well, if u wanna have a dicussion over drinks just PM me. ;p

This post has been edited by empro: Dec 27 2012, 05:56 PM
wailup
post Dec 27 2012, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(empro @ Dec 27 2012, 05:53 PM)
Yes, for HSBC Premier Banking. I also have a learn to swim business with several partners. Plus I'm also into MLM...

Have a business man point of view, always see the opportunity and grab it. But always help people sincerely if u do MLM and build them up cause their success speaks the loudest for you.

People who fail in MLM is because they have the thinking of, u pay me I move my a** but people who has the initiative move their a** first then reaps the benefits.


Added on December 27, 2012, 5:56 pm

Lol! Why so keen to know? Well, if u wanna have a dicussion over drinks just PM me. ;p
*
if you're rich. you'll be fine.. if not. god bless you.
empro
post Dec 27 2012, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(wailup @ Dec 27 2012, 06:02 PM)
if you're rich. you'll be fine.. if not. god bless you.
*
I don't know how u define rich? But if earning 8k a month in a bank fits that description for u... Then god bless u too!

Never limit yourselves and take chances, cause behind every failure, success is waiting.
exlish
post Dec 27 2012, 08:20 PM

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Guys, bottom line is this is a business after all. Please do not condemn a business if you don't know anything. I believe in respecting one's professional in any field. If this isn't your cup of tea then just move on. I'm an oil & gas engineer and I'm in this business. Like I said before this isn't an ordinary business.
ChroniclesIY
post Dec 28 2012, 12:26 AM

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QUOTE(empro @ Dec 27 2012, 05:19 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Haii sigh.. lets cut through all this bullshit..

the main part is

QUOTE
The basis on how MLM works is through the sale of the product. Ie. Either through sales or people who join. The company receives the money and gives a pay out to the distributor or the upline. Oh yes, and on the 90% money back guarantee within a certain period of time, of course you have to return the products la! Another Facepalm for u!


So there are sales of product and sale of people who join, you said before that sales of product is not the main aim of the company.

please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_m..._and_legitimacy

QUOTE
MLM companies have been a frequent subject of criticism as well as the target of lawsuits. Criticism has focused on their similarity to illegal pyramid schemes, price fixing of products, high initial start-up costs, emphasis on recruitment of lower-tiered salespeople over actual sales, encouraging if not requiring salespeople to purchase and use the company's products, potential exploitation of personal relationships which are used as new sales and recruiting targets, complex and sometimes exaggerated compensation schemes, and cult-like techniques which some groups use to enhance their members' enthusiasm and devotion.

The United States Federal Trade Commission states "Steer clear of multilevel marketing plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors. They're actually illegal pyramid schemes. Why is pyramiding dangerous? Because plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors inevitably collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. And when a plan collapses, most people - except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid - end up empty-handed."[34]

In a 2004 Staff Advisory letter to the Direct Selling Association, the FTC states:

Much has been made of the personal, or internal, consumption issue in recent years. In fact, the amount of internal consumption in any multi-level compensation business does not determine whether or not the FTC will consider the plan a pyramid scheme. The critical question for the FTC is whether the revenues that primarily support the commissions paid to all participants are generated from purchases of goods and services that are not simply incidental to the purchase of the right to participate in a money-making venture.[35]
In fact what you are saying is MC Ocean is a Pyramid Scheme because as you said the focus is not on the products but recruitment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

QUOTE
A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public.
It is not sustainable.

you said that I don't know how mlm compensation works so please tell everyone here how does MC ocean compensation work, company recieves the money and pays up the chain of people? that is a clear pyramid scheme

A pyramid scheme is unsustainable because once people stop buying into it, there is no money coming in.

QUOTE
Franchise fraud (or 'franchise churning') is defined by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation as a pyramid scheme. The FBI website states:
pyramid schemes :—also referred to as franchise fraud or chain referral schemes—are marketing and investment frauds in which an individual is offered a distributorship or franchise to market a particular product. The real profit is earned, not by the sale of the product, but by the sale of new distributorships. Emphasis on selling franchises rather than the product eventually leads to a point where the supply of potential investors is exhausted and the pyramid collapses.
One of Pearlasia Gamboa’s (president of the micronation of Melchizedek) franchise fraud schemes was described by the Italian newspaper La Repubblica as “one of the most diabolical international scams ever devised in recent years.”
Only top 5% in Mc Ocean succeed? thats cos only top 5% are high enough on the pyramid to recover their costs.

Yes mc ocean is a business, is it a legitimate sustainable business? the people whom you are trying to recruit should know the truth and be able to ask questions.

empro whats your name and when did you leave HSBC premier banking?
yuen1985
post Dec 28 2012, 12:34 AM

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rclxms.gif
jaya_pc87
post Dec 28 2012, 01:13 AM

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just got back from their business meetup today

yup same scheme

1. a friend will invite you and say got a business opportunity to make $$$, ask you to join them for a sharing session/meetup

2. so this friend will bring u to meet their uplines, who will share stories

some will come and say I am retired policemen, ex teacher, ex banker, ex bank manager, ex branch manager, ex lorry driver, un educated - only can speak chinese, studied till PMR only, joined so many mlm before etc etc etc
So yeah this friend of mine is still a banker and already making 10k by second month ( verified myself) & planning to quit his job
if I ask any questions please go to the office & i fking hate each time they share their story one guy from behind will shout "betul", "true"...


So being all excited, i ask them just fking bring me to the office already & they ask me to wait till can book a slot zzzz
so yeah finally got a slot after one week, went in today

3. at office they will start bring u around, show their retreat photos, show their prince - highest rank leaders and etc etc, products they sell and such

so from my understanding

MC Ocean Holding is the seller of the products
SD Business Center is their "distributor" - which I cant find any information on the kpdnkk
when you signup, its under SD Business Center not MC Ocean Holdings
Yeah the product is registered under MC Ocean, the direct sales licence also belongs to MC Ocean
but no association to SD Business Center

to me this looks like multi layered fake companies with one parent company with all the licences
if anything goes wrong - parent company escapes

So yeah practically when you signup for RM2113.00
they will minus RM50 for registration
RM150 for the M&U
RM dunno for this & that

so final balance is RM1950( Confirmed) - thats your Business Credit & on top of that only 1500 or something left for you to use to buy their products ( money converted into points) cant convert back ...

* disclaimer some of the value above could be wrong

so the credit you have is a must to be used to buy their products - nothing else ( which is like forcing each member who joins in to automatically become a sales men & forced to buy a product no matter what + using this to recruit other members & share profit)

So if u sign up for that amount u automatically become - a

Gold Knight ( lowest rank) u get 15% of "sales Shares"
each new business partner you recruit will have 5% "sales shares"
thus you make 15-5% = 10% profit = RM195 per recruit
Your upline whom introduced you will earn 9%

they insist that, there is no maintenance or flushing


One you introduced 5 members you will rank up to Diamond Knight 24% - Gold Knight 15% ( profit 9%)

so ask it progress higher each time 5 new members rank goes up - your ranks goes up
there is also few other requirements like total downline must make xxx cash etc etc to rank higher

Gold - 15%
Diamond - 24%
xxxx - 33%
xxxx- 36%
Prince - 37% ( less than 15 members who are here - mostly who founded it)

on top of that you will also earn 10 generation of downlines bonus of total 14% ( its a tiered breakdown cant remember the exact value) and this value is multiplied by two (28%) for prince

on top of that they also provide a fixed 2% bonus quarterly




They keep insist skip the product sales, saying that selling the product not going to earn much
but focus on recruiting 5 members & instead of selling consume it for yourself

some of the products
1. water filter - electronic with patents etc etc
2. supplements
3. lotions & skin products

So they keep insist that this business works with team work
means u do 30% team will do 70% - complete strangers will help you out and such


So to the sifu out are skilful with maths, do you think this scheme will last?
i believe total payout is over 50% which is ridiculous,

even geneva was only about 24% & they got hit hard as recruitment slowed down

To me this is just another ponzi scheme, layered with a legal business company who authorized a "sole distributor" - SD Business Center to gather members & distribute their products in a forceful manner where the signed up new " partner" must also buy the product & can choose either to sell or recruit more members


Honestly, i joined a few mlm before & this wont last long, join in the wave while it can last & reap your profit
just face the reality of harsh world, not everyone can become rich with hard work but then again define hardwork
this ppl who are doing mlm their hardwork is to recruit members
I am a business man in IT Field & it feels too good to be true

either way I am going to give this a test run for a couple of months - starting mid jan 2013 & see if i can make some cash

Will update this thread with proper screenshots & more info - unlike the ones above who dont want to share anything
I believe in sharing knowledge & make sure others dont get cheated
exlish
post Dec 28 2012, 01:40 AM

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Dude, if you really think it's ponzi, shouldn't u report to the police? Make a police report!!! N u also have the guts to tell us that you'll give it a shot??That means you know its a scam n u r gona con innocent people in as well to rip the benefits??i respect the guys up here because they stand firm on their decision and it's ok to have different in opinion. I may believe in this Mc ocean business but I don't want to con anybody into this n moreover get conned into it!!

I have not seen a bigger hypocrite/selfish /con man than u jaya_pc87.!!
jaya_pc87
post Dec 28 2012, 08:02 AM

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QUOTE(exlish @ Dec 28 2012, 01:40 AM)
Dude, if you really think it's ponzi, shouldn't u report to the police? Make a police report!!! N u also have the guts to tell us that you'll give it a shot??That means you know its a scam n u r gona con innocent people in as well to rip the benefits??i respect the guys up here because they stand firm on their decision and it's ok to have different in opinion. I may believe in this Mc ocean business but I don't want to con anybody into this n moreover get conned into it!!

I have not seen a bigger hypocrite/selfish /con man than u jaya_pc87.!!
*
I am not going to invite others to join, I wanna join in to see how the modus operandi works
wow calling a person who reveal inside info a conman good call for someone who is already in the businness

how about you do it then? I dont need to burn my money to join in - better right? go make your police report

This post has been edited by jaya_pc87: Dec 28 2012, 08:04 AM
wailup
post Dec 28 2012, 09:00 AM

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jaya_pc87 got cash to burn, he can try as much as he likes mah. but in order for him to 'earn' his profit... the question is, how many ppl more he wants them to get involved (in other words, how many ppl money he wanna 'burn'?)

i dont care if those ppl got 'cash' de la... but if it's from young ppl, or person without extra cash to spare.. then, dont 'experiment' on them lo.. 'take your own risk'.
yuen1985
post Dec 28 2012, 10:06 AM

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This business can be ''earn''...there is no doubt about it...if you manage to find a lot of ppl to ''burn''.


empro
post Dec 28 2012, 11:03 AM

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Bro.... One thing is for sure, most industries were the subject of critisizm. Lol! Look at banks, they were the biggest crooks and the cause for everyones financial despair in the subprime crisis.

Did you realize that we are the losers in everyday life? Just by consuming daily necessities like food makes someone else richer. What u think a can of coke costs? 8 cents to be exact. And u never complain about all the people who has reaped profit from u! Thanks for making them rich. But always complaining that in MLM u make the top person richer.

I hope to see that u go into business to sell your goods or services at cost price! Then u r being truly genuine. But what if a company comes and tells u, hey here's a loyalty card, now u're a member and any purchase u make, u get back a rebate. Plus, if u recommend any of your friends to buy our products, u also get bonus points. So, wouldn't your friends be keen to do that as well?

But as u all highlight, no.... Recommending or selling things to friends is so wrong especially when u make money off them. Hello! We are naturally born markerters like it or not. Let's say u buy a iphone5 or galaxy, wouldn't u share with your friends how great the phone is? So if apple gives u a commission for successfully getting your friend to buy the phone, is it wrong? Too bad these companies don't share their profits with u....

So yeah thanks for marketing products for free!

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