How can it be pointless when it is a SMARTPhone, and what is a smartphone?
As I said, there should be a clear distinction between a smartphone and mediaphone. Back then, there is non-smartphone and smartphone.

There're many types of users, we should look at every category of users, just as I said, there're people who like doesn't need a mobile computer device. So, these people should also be open and understand that there're users who want something more, similarly, there're still people who don't bother at all, they just want a phone to function as a phone, a basic simple phone.

Long ago, Nokia cater for many different category of users, from different series of their phone; Just because some people think the communicator is *pointless* doesn't mean this product is useless. Same goes to any product, cars, cameras, etc.

It's not syok sendiri; If you understand software, it's not something they cannot do or can't provide, it's they DON'T WANT to and yet they still selling so expensive.
If they say the users are too dumb to handle the complexity of a smartphone, doesn't mean the features have to be REMOVED or NOT PROVIDED. They can make the OS simple, then for advance users, these users can choose to turn on the features in SETTINGS.
The thing here is CHOICE/OPTIONS for users, but Apple did not choose to give any to the users.
Imagine if iPhone come out with their own digital camera, they remove the PSAM modes, everything runs on AUTO with their Apple's Intelligent Auto, no options to customize and manual features; then they tell the world, this changes everything. You don't need complicated features, just use our Auto modes and you'll get professional photo easily by one touch.
How come they don't do that to their Mac OS? Why did they limit and restrict their iOS? I know some IT Professionals who are Mac hardcore fans that don't like iPhone or iOS due to the restrictions and limitations. IT Professionals who understand software should understand very well that these aren't limitation of the hardware, but it's the company taking advantage of the users.

Anyway, as I mentioned, iPhone is not a bad thing, but the bad things are, the other companies that were threaten trying to follow it; Follow the good is OK and it's good; but sadly, they also copy the bads, the best example is Windows Phone, no bluetooth file transfer, reliance of Zune software for media transfer, no File Managers, etc. This was sooo sooo NOT Microsoft. And worst, what will happen to the future of "smartphone"?
Will everything trying to be the same and ended up we get more backwards technology OS?
There should be different category, those are that basic and simple, for those users who don't need those smartphone capabilities; There should also be those smartphone which cater for those who need and wants it.
Just like there're different category of notebooks, from netbooks for people who just want to do basic stuffs to powerful workstation notebooks for those professionals.
Smartphone? Symbian is dying, Maemo is dead, MeeGo is still unknown,... Windows Phone? Becoming like another iOS?
Android is the current one which going strong and offers the flexibility, but it's still lacking, especially on true multi-tasking part and some usability.


You're saying based on your perspective. As I said, there're people who don't need all those, just like those that just need a netbook for their needs, while there're those who need a powerful workstation notebooks. We should be open and think of different category of users.
Well, some may argue that, it's a phone, but that's what different user wants, and as smartphone original concept, it was to achieve mobile computing, not something like iOS.
iOS will fit nicely as a mediaphone OS, which I don't find anything wrong, it's just a name, just like a netbook, which is actually a notebook, but they simply decide to give it a new category and with certain characteristic that classifies it as a netbook, so with similar characteristic, we can classify a phone is a normal phone, smartphone or mediaphone.
As with mediaplayer, like iPod Touch, Zune Players, these are mainly use for media purpose, to play video files, listen to musics; there's no file managers, no mass storage access, have to rely on software to transfer media files. Of course, the iPod Touch have more capabilities like web browser, and supports for applications. But's it's still a very limited and controlled OS, unlike a smartphone which are meant to work like a mobile computer phone. If you have use the Pocket PC before there was even a smartphone, you'll know the purpose of a Pocket PC, and when they first introduce smartphone, it's to cater for those people who carries a Pocket PC and a phone, now they can carry 1 device, which is a smartphone.
For those who likes to carry a media players on the other hands, don't really need or want a Pocket PC, and carries a phone, the mediaphone would be a good choice.

Different people have different needs. As of current, what I can see is, iPhone change the smarpthone world not in a good way; unless you think everyone should use the same product OR all OS should work about the similar way? Monopoly? I prefer there're different product that cater for different people.

that's one heck of a bold statement.

ok put it this way - Apple can threaten others to follow, simply because they can.

i'm not in a mood to debate about iOS vs others and media phone vs smartphone. one thing you have to realize and understand - the market accepted the revolution of iOS, simply because end users prefer it over the others. you have to also realize that geeky users like active members at Android thread doesn't represent the whole market. there're probably more users that you think that are not into tweaking the OS and have tons of customizations at their disposal. imagine young kids, ladies, and businessman, how many do you think they have time to spend tinkering their phone to their likings? in fact, many people, including energetic youngster and working dudes just want a gadget that can get the job done, yet simple to organize. you'll probably be surprise how many people actually did not touch any of the customization function at all.


from a different perspective, is there any tasks your favorite smartphone can do but iPhone can't? just in case you miss it, the keyword here is *tasks*.

This post has been edited by little ice: Aug 13 2012, 02:14 AM

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This post has been edited by aiyda_rahim: Aug 13 2012, 07:59 PM

Market for phones which are pocketpc is very limited. Only small group of nerds and tech geeks appreciate the need to flash, changing fonts/colors, organizing files in proper folders, etc.

Almost all just wants the 4 thgs
1) Internet browsing
2) social media
3) camera
4) games

Any phone that cannot do the above in the most easy and fancy way will fail.
That's why apple is so successful. They never invent smartphone concept, but decided what customers REALLY want.
Of course they cannot satisfy everybody. So we have alternatives like Maemo , and of course android.

bingo!

Did I not realize and understand? I think you misunderstand? I said, iPhone caters for certain category of users, but from previous post, did you realize that you're saying as if, you don't need a mobile computer, as if it's not necessary to exist in this world? Unless you type wrongly or mean something else? From the statement, I presume you don't realize and understand that there're different users with different needs, hence my LONG explanation with various examples with different category of notebooks. Just because many people just need a simple netbook or even the ultrabook, doesn't mean the powerful workstation notebook shouldn't exist, right? Unless you disagree?
For notebook, we still have many different categories available, even for other products like cars, DSLR, etc.
But smartphone? Many proper smartphone OS are dying, moreover, what Apple did like no bluetooth file transfer, no FileManager, etc. has "infected" Microsoft, with the Windows Phone not having all these. To me, this is a bad thing.

Yes, but they change how people see and understand smartphones. They did good where they make somethings that's smooth, as well as the App Store. But, the bad thing that happen is, the varieties or choice of proper smartphone OS is reducing, and worst of all, Windows Phone has followed the footsteps of iPhone. Don't get me wrong, I like Windows Phone concept and all, but very disappointed when I found out they implemented the restrictions and limitations like iPhone, it just suddenly feels so... stupid? No bluetooth file transfer, no FileManager, No MassStorage, etc.

The key point here is, take the GOODS and drop the BADS. But instead, they take everything.
What will the future be like? Everything look like iPhone, no bluetooth file transfer, no FileManager, no MassStorage, Must use software to transfer media files?
Honestly, I don't hope to see thing happening to smartphones.
There should be at least different alternatives for different categories of users.

Symbian is dying.
Maemo is dead/killed. MeeGo was killed, but maybe revive but can it survive is another question.
The only strong survivor is Android, mainly due to Google's strength.

Whether it's minority users or majority users; Like I said before, remember the olden days of Nokia, you have so many different models for different category of users. I prefer that world, than one phone to rule them all.
It's not just changing folders and so on, it's about bringing mobile computing, where I can do most of the things without by notebook/netbook, I can remote to my PC and controls it, I can browse the web with full desktop version (Maemo5 even have support for Mouse Cursor, which allows you to do more stuffs like click and drag, mouse over, right-click, etc). In short, not everyone need, but still quite many do.
Even some may not need, but if they know they can, they might want it.
The thing is, you don't need, just don't use. As simple as that. Apple can give all these, BUT they choose NOT to.
Microsoft Windows Phone could've been very successful, but suddenly, they implemented all the restrictions and limitations like iPhone and turning many people down, IF it's just as bad as the iPhone in terms of limitations and restrictions, why should the person choose Windows Phone over iPhone?

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 13 2012, 10:05 AM

all I can say is, too bad for you (and others who prefer the old school way).

though, I can relate how you feel about it. similarly, I always wished there's a phone like 808 and somehow manage to at least have physical keypads. i find that even after few weeks of using 808, I still can't get used to the touchscreen input yet, and I don't think I'll ever achieve the same convenience and speed like I can do on physical keypad. all I can do is to live with it, or find alternatives like separate camera and old school keypad phone.

i think everyone has the right to see ios as bad or good for the industry and i respect that. I personally and strongly think overall it bought much more good than bad, in fact i'm grateful for the speed and depth of innovation we enjoy today in the entire smartphone landscape due to competition. Although we the nerds may question their decisions on limiting features and functionalities, i clearly see their rationale, motivation and value of creating a unique product that breakaway from the dependance on legacy desktop metaphors and paradigms, a totally new category of product that doesn't need to do everything a desktop do but for the few main things they do they do it very well, in fact better than desktop computing. It has also influenced companies like Microsoft to have more balls to find areas in their own business that are ripe for disruption and move forward with technologies that are more forward-thinking, sustainable and adaptable to the myriads of modern computing systems and infrastructure (eg. cloud computing, sandboxed security measures) while keeping everything running optimally and easier to manage and update.

The other clear results of the introduction of iphone are the great improvements in both the UI and UX for mobile devices, adoption of better touch input (capacitive vs resistive), OS upgrades that spans multiple releases, convenient apps directory and the reorganizing of the whole process of smartphone's hardware-software integration. Before iphone, software division in nokia was never given the same priority as compared to their hardware's counterpart. Those working in the software/OS division are second class citizens at nokia that always have to deal with hardware constrains and restrictions as well as last minute changes, facing deadline launches of product because waiting for finalization of hardware components and design. Buggy firmware usually plagued all new device launches and usually take several releases to iron out the problems or worst never been fixed and rely on the release of a totally new 'i' or 'mini' version devices to resolve the issues. After iphone, all manufacturers start to understand the importance of having a tight focus on developing both software and hardware together to create a better product.

Apple's basis and decision to have a tight control and limitation of their software and hardware are never about being evil, obnoxious or arrogant at the expense of their users, its all about common sense business strategy for their ecosystem, safeguarding their platform from eroding (eg. malware/viruses/reliance on 3rd party technologies), minimizing clutters of design, removal of legacy, non-forward thinking, low usability, buggy and battery draining features or apps (eg. 3rd parties' crapwares, operator's garbages, forever bad performing mobile flash player) avoiding paralysis of choices for most users by simplifying functions and features. Removal of 'noises' to a product has always been Apple's core value and virtue. 'Less is more until the market says otherwise' is their motto. The other reason they do not have certain features asides from these are because they are probably working on it. To them introducing a feature is a serious responsibility. Unlike other companies, throwing as much specs or features into a product is not what they do. Until they are happy to be able to implement it in an elegant or more unique/better way, they will continue to iterate in their lab (ie. the iOS widget). Half-baked or poorly implemented features is not what they do. We nerds may question the way they implemented these features later on (ie. notification center) but that's the thought process they went through before shipping a product

This post has been edited by hox: Aug 13 2012, 02:20 PM

1) Iphone no usb mass storage
2) IPhone no memory card slot.
3) Lack of durability, front and back made of glass. Dunno how many ppl have told me their Iphone crack/break from just 1 fall. This one not tasks but one of the main factor for 'rough' ppl like me.
4)No flash support without jailbreaking. This again dunno how many times in the sports forum people asking for update cos their phones(includes BB & windows phone) or Ipad cant see livescore. Funniest thing they didnt even know it has no flash support and tot their device spoil, hahaha.

If 1,2,3 dont count, just no 4 is enuf to deter sports followers and those who like to play FB games.

Anyway little ice, you also chose Nokia, like us, I'm sure you have your reasons

This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Aug 13 2012, 02:02 PM

If someone to implement all in one the best the phone might end up 5K and later not many will buy it. In marketing it's not really logical.

Just imagine a 5.5inch Amoled , 41MP Carl Zeiss optics, quad core processor, 1gb ram, polycarbonate unibody with curve glass, bose dual stereo speakers, 3000mAH battery capacity, 720 x 1280 clear black display, dual OS boot, fm transmitter, dual sim. Example if this cost 4K will you buy?

even Samsung S3 have cheap casing and crappy so called crappy glass below average camera already 2.2k if you add Nokia premium stuff maybe will double the price.

Different OS suit different market share and most of people perspective does not apply to the world market share.Like mass storage I haven't use this for like 3years already I am okay. Like my dad using iPhone he only send emails, make phone calls, SMS, facebook and latest social apps everything else is optional so when u said limitation, lack of features it doesn't effect him. So it depends on different market share. It's more about your personal preference.

Everyone keep insist their point of view is correct but what matters is the product sells. One can insist this the best but when the product can't sell it means the product is bad

Like now most manufacturer are smart they make they phones as Flimsy as possible so people end up buying more accessories like screen protector and casing. Smaller battery capacity so you might buy aportable charger In business point of view profit is good.

This post has been edited by aspire2oo6: Aug 13 2012, 02:19 PM

Well, it depends how you see it. Maybe because there's a category which cater for your need so, you won't demand more.
But IF Apple implemented more features on iOS, making it more smartphone like, offering flexbility, external storage, file managers, bluetooth file transfer, etc. Would you welcome it? Or would you deny it?
Of course, not everyone need the feature, but doesn't mean the feature needs to be remove or not provided; Don't need then don't use, those who need it, can use it.

Just like camera on smartphones, let's say Camera Flash, some don't use flash, then just turn it off. Don't need HDR, then don't use HDR. But not having the feature is another story.

Apple chosen to restrict, limits and control iOS. It's OK, for those who don't like it, can go for alternatives.
But if others OS starts to follow iOS, then it's a problem.

Yes, there're many goods; The bad is how it influence other manufacturer, so it's not fully Apple's fault, it's how other manufacturer learn and adapt. As I said, take the GOODS and drop the BADS, but Microsoft done the blind step by taking everything, they implemented the BADS. So, why choose Windows Phone then?
Windows Phone could've been very successful, if only Microsoft didn't added restrictions and limitations and not providing many common smartphone features.

Legacy Desktop? Smartphone OS already different from Desktop. Apple not providing a proper homescreen (as commonly found on smartphone) is breakway? LoL. That is not breakaway. If I don't want homescreen, then I just turn it off of don't use it at all. The key here is CHOICE/OPTIONS. Having no homescreen, widgets support means not providing this feature instead of giving user a choice, that is not breakaway, that's taking off the value of something. Of course, in Apple's point of view, they would want to user/fans to support them so they don't have to provide this feature.

This is the good part which iOS did very well, but it has nothing to do with the above. Even with all this, it has nothing to do with providing user choices/options, controlling, limiting and restricting users.

Wow. That's very biased to protect Apple's strategy? No?

Nerd? You don't nee a nerd to complaint. Many of non-IT people who have been using smartphones long before iPhone, when they use iPhone, they will find many missing features, restrictions and limitations. Some people may accept and close-eye on it, but that's what they want consumers to do. Removing/Not providing common features found on smartphone and want people to accept this. Will you accept this? Most basic users don't bother as it's not a MUST, but still it's a NICE TO HAVE; I for one, would definitely welcome and encourage them to implement and provide this.
But it doesn't matter even if they don't provide this, because those that don't like it, can go for alternatives; The issue here is, when others starts to follow, so it's like creating some new standards that new smartphones should not allow bluetooth file transfer, should not have File Managers, etc? To me, that's not a good change. Unless you feel it's a breakaway, forward thinking, etc.

As I said before, there're Mac fans/users themselves are not happy with iOS restrictions and limitations; When you understand software and it's not limited by the hardware, but more of the decision of the company, whether they want to provide and give you the choice or options.
Just as how I said:
The Car selling at SG for say RM100K after convert, has 6 AirBags, ESP, Full HiFi SoundSystem, HUD, ColorScreen MFD, Auto Wipers, Auto Light, etc.
The same Car selling at MY for similar RM100K, has 2 Airbags, and none of the features above, basically a very simple spec. It is the choice of the Distributor decision when bring in the models, whether they give the full spec or low spec, they still price it at RM100K.
Or let's say a camera, the newer models with newer firmwares comes with HDR modes, and more nice features (software based), and this feature can actually be provided in the older models; it s a matter of decision whether the company want to provide or not. Most users may not question and ask as they don't understand how software works.
If you still cannot understand this concept and still agree and support Apples decision, then I have nothing else to say, there's no point for us to discuss because clearly we have very different views because it's not we misunderstand each other view, but actually we understand each others view and explanation, and we support our own different views.

---

Added on August 13, 2012, 2:37 pmThere're actually many more to list; Googling around can give you the long list, even Windows Phone have their own list.

As one reviewer said, I would very well agree with what he said: For those just want to do basic web browsing, play some games, listen to some songs, use some apps. The iPhone is PERFECT choice.
But we should understand, not everyone can be satisfied with this. We're always moving forward, learning more stuffs, and have DEMAND. People improve and eventually will want something more.

Just as tablets, some people thought Tablets can work like a Notebook; After they bought the iPad, horror...
So switch to Android Tablets... can do more stuffs, but still... many things cannot do.
End up, have to bring Notebook.
So, have to carry Tablet and Notebook? Or just carry Notebook? Can Tablet replace Notebook? Not yet... Unless it's a Windows Tablet? But it's not working very well right? Not sure about Windows 8 Tablet.

It's the same as Pocket PC and Phone. Those that have Pocket PC, would love to have proper Pocket PC funtionality and capabilities in their Phone.
Then, there's those that don't carry Pocket PC, but carries media player and Phone. To them, Phone that can fullfill their need is enough. BUT then, having more capabilities won't hurt; It's how well the software is being implemented and letting user to choose.



This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 13 2012, 02:37 PM

there you have it - the first 3 isn't much of an issue, and they're not really a "task", and always have workarounds to make them work. durability...at least it's more durable than S3 and RARZ MAXX for example. USB drives are so cheap nowadays and easy to carry with, at least it's more convenient than carrying a cable.

yes for the 4th one, no flash support can put some people off. but there're plenty of people who don't use flash either, and Apple never implement flash due to being battery drainer and hardware will need to be top notch to be able to play the flash smoothly. result? many website wrote the app for iOS, and many video streaming website also support HTML5. there're even a few solutions like iSwift to get the job done albeit far from perfect. the pros of the iOS devices far outweighed the cons that people continue to buy iOS devices and developers have to write apps for it.

moreover, if anyone who really wants flash on iOS devices, like you said, there's always jailbreak.

so in the end, people buying iOS devices simply because of the user experiences and they're willing to trade it with the hassles of jailbreaking and workarounds.

if you ask my opinion, i always thought that's a pretty OK tradeoff. i rather have a smooth user experiences 95% of the time than having flash but user experiences not as good and smooth. and the market proved the point that majority of people preferred that way, too.

and i chosen nokia, 808 particularly, simply because it fulfill my needs. i'm not a fanboy when it comes to gadgets, just whatever works and i'm ready to jump ship from brand to brand.


now that's a strong point too.


_________________________________________

back to PV 808 topic though, i'm really started to get put off by the white balance and overall color. color temperature is one thing, overall color wise it's still not quite there especially indoor photos (though i have to admit the outdoor photos are pretty darn impressive). the sharp details (syok sendiri ) gets boring pretty quickly, to be honest.

also due to not being used to touchscreen, i'm seriously considering buying a decent phone with keypad and OK camera, then get something like Nikon J1 maybe (price dropped so much very recently RM1300'ish with pancake lens). maybe give the 808 to my father since his phone really cacat already and he's into photographing too.

Yes, what matter most is the product sells. But when user got no demand, things will slowly fade and gone missing.
As I said, like bluetooth file transfer, mass storage, file managers, etc. It can be implemented at NO EXTRA COST and not an issue, just a matter of MANAGEMENT DECISION. When people don't demand and fight for it, then it will slowly become non-existent and become a standard that NO NEED TO GIVE.

Why are cars now having requirement to have 2 Air Bags? Recently ESP is also being requested as a requirement for Malaysian Market.

How come smartphones are going BACKWARDS and getting LESS features?

Apple has the pride not to give and their fans/users will accept it easily. But it's OK because there're different category of users that can accept it. The problem is still as I mentioned before, when others starts to follow and slowly this is becoming a "standard". Do you think it's a good thing? I don't.

---

Added on August 13, 2012, 2:46 pmIsn't much of an issue for you, right? But as a product, shouldn't it reach more customers?
It won't hurt to give, and it won't hurt if your phone have this feature right? Will you welcome this feature or say NO to the feature?
That's what I'm trying to say.

I've been waiting for this to pop-up
Don't use? Then turn it off "lor"
Or by default turn it off or not installed.
KEY POINT: LET USER CHOOSE.
PROVIDE OPTIONS/CHOICE FOR USERS, Not force them to accept and live with it.

Did nobody still don't get this until now?
Note: This applies to any products, not everyone use all the features available, be it, Camera, Cars, Music Instruments like Digital Piano, Keyboards, etc. Not everyone utilize the features available. Should these feature be remove and become a standard to NO LONGER be included?
Should smartphone in future have less and less features and those common, useful, nice to have, convenient features be REMOVE and NO LONGER provided?


This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 13 2012, 02:50 PM

epic wall of text... except the middle combo breaker.

gotta spend my night to read this... >_<

no, you got point wrong.

having more features doesn't necessarily means the phone is more useful. a successful phone is a phone that allow the user to get the job done easier, better, and faster. and if something that a phone can't do (even if it CAN do with a very smart smartphone), user will reach their desktop and laptop and no matter how you put it, they get the job done easier, better, and faster.

it doesn't make sense to have so many features on the phone where user struggle more to get the same job done. and that brings to the same conclusion - syok sendiri.

again, Andy i understand your point - iOS is such a successful OS and all Apple have to do is to lift all the limitations to make it a better OS, and i sincerely agree with that point. but you know, there's a cutoff point where you have to factor in personal preferences and it's next to impossible to cater for everyone. so what Apple did was to offer functions and features until that cutoff point, and let the user to do whatever they want to the iOS by jailbreaking, hacking, etc so Apple don't need to take any responsibility.

---

Added on August 13, 2012, 2:59 pmLMAO user indeed can choose - jailbreak it! and like i mentioned above, choose at their own risk so Apple don't need to take any responsibility! i can't help but to give the credit to Apple for such brilliant move!

This post has been edited by little ice: Aug 13 2012, 02:59 PM

Little Ice, the flash support function can turn on and off.
For instance, Nokia N9 stock browser no flash support, it's smooth, I'm typing from it now. If user want flash support open Firefox, voila, can open the sites that need flash support.

If football fans, they wouldnt mind as much as scores dont change so fast. For badminton,the score can go from 5-6 to 12-6 in 5 min if doubles, very kan cheong if our countrymen playing. Again, dunno how times when they ask to update scores I hv mentioned 'Go get a devce with flash support'!! Lol.

They go for IOS cos its very popular, after spending the money say 'Drats, didnt know cannot see livescore. ' If they dunno abt flash support means they wouldnt know how to jailbreak or even know what is jailbreak. The IOS AppStore dont have apps for all sports, dont think the developers will make one for badminton as its not popular sport in Western countries.

Anyway, this and the other 3 reasons I stated are the dealbreaker for me(and other sports fans) when it comes to selecting a device & tablet. Dont want to be the kan cheong one who keep asking people for score updates,there are tournaments 2X a mth,so, its a pretty regular thing.

This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Aug 13 2012, 03:28 PM

Amazing, we're still ting-tong till now, hehe
Anyway, as you said, get job done easier. How do you transfer file to another device? How do you copy a file from your device to PC. How does not having some important useful and nice feature more useful?

Yes, I still reach for my desktop. BUT here's the thing, sometimes, when I go out, I don't want to carry my laptop, but I can rely on my smartphone to do something that my notebook can. That makes a whole lots of difference. When a NEWER smartphone cannot be rely on to do some of those thing my older smartphone can, what does it mean?

Having more feature doesn't mean user struggle to get the same job done.
Having more feature means provide more options and choice for user. You don't have to use it, but it'll be convenient to have.
For example:
Simple file transfer to a PC.
If you go to a friends house and want to transfer some file to his PC, there's no softwares install for the file transfer, so you can't transfer. Now how is that convenient?

I still don't get your point. Having something more doesn't make it hurt or make things worst.
For example:
If a Digital Piano, with USB to PC to transfer midi files, VS a Digital Piano with USB to PC + USB to Host (e.g. ThumbDrive) and other connectivity. How does having MORE CONVENIENT feature be worst.
So you're saying it should become LESS and should not have so much connectivity options for users?
Sorry, I cannot get where you're going.

I did not say they have to cater for everyone, but to cater for more markets; But for Apple, they're doing well, so they don't have to fullfill other customers needs/demands.

Anyway, the discussion that start this was, 808 not being a smartphone, but in actual fact, Symbian was one of the first smartphone; So it's not right to say Symbian is not a smartphone as the smartphone concept, as I said before, was misunderstood.
What is a smartphone and how it started? As I mention many times already, back then, there is Pocket PC and people also carries phone around. Making the device as 1 device, it's a smartphone. The purpose of smartphone is a mobile computer in a phone. Long ago, people used to ask what is a smartphone and non-smartphone difference, and it's very easy to differentiate because a smartphone is basically like having a mobile computer with phone functionality.


Jailbreak is different already.
What's we're talking is about characteristics of smartphone and also about having those features as standard in samrtphones, not through any other means. It's just a very simple, basic and common features of smartphone, and some to even non-smartphones (e.g. file transfer via bluetooth).

Anyway, that's beside the point, what I worry now is, the future of smartphone, when these limitations and restrictions become a standard. It's hard to believe and shocking, but Microsoft actually implemented this in their Windows Phone.

eagle - that one i can't speak for it, cause i don't use flash and i find no problem with it. there're so many other devices that can have flash.

you know what, when people give bad credit to iPhone and iOS, it's because they were truly interested on buying one initially. why does one wants to spend the effort to talk bad about a product when they don't have a single interest on it?


Andy- we can go round and round and we won't have any breakthrough on this kind of debates. anyone wants a more capable smartphone OS, there's always Android now, and those who don't, and want something simple, there's iOS and windows phone.

why the limitation, i don't know, be it technical problem or whatnot. i'm no software developer so i'll never understand the point behind those decisions, so i won't speak out so loudly without any solid backups. and what i know is, those OS with limitation can run very smooth and most importantly, seldom give problem like hang and freeze (though feel free to correct me if i'm wrong). and you should already know, symbian for example, was notorious for this, and still is today.

it's the same goes to OSX vs Windows. OSX is tightly controlled and only available on Macs, and both are from Apple. so that's why many people are using Macs because of the reliability, and simplicity. not much to tinker with, and plain works. on windows? yes, highly customizable and Mac users can only dream. but at the same time you can have driver conflicts all day long, and other software/hardware conflicts.

also what i want to comment is, i don't get why people can form a conclusion that Apple destroyed the smartphone world. when other manufacturer see the success of Apple, they start to copy, and we can only blame other manufacturers that follow Apple. Apple certainly did NOT intended to destroy the smartphone concept. but many people are like you, hating Apple for no apparent reason. Apple even went through the trouble to sue Samsung or the likes and i read that in Jobs bio he actually said Android is a ripoff and he wanted to destroy it! do you actually think Apple wish everyone copy them?

i came out with an "inferior" product, and selling like hot cakes, and people follow my "inferior" product, who is the one that's stupid?

i don't have any hard feeling when i see the smartphone world evolved from Symbian to Android vs iOS. as a consumer, i just use whatever works. i buy a phone to call and sms, to communicate with other people. if i need a browser or play games, i always have my laptop and iPad. if i can't do it with what i have now, then don't do it, it's not the end of the world. yes, sometimes i wish how i have such and such function on the phone, but hey...what's wrong with humans nowadays? want to Facebook also don't want to meet up for real and talk for real and drink a real cup of tea. what i'm fear of is the future of human relying on their gadgets too much!

This post has been edited by little ice: Aug 13 2012, 05:17 PM

want to buy more post about nokia 808...less wall of text please.

hey, i didn't find it wrong to discuss those things in this thread..

they are having healthy discussion.