Symbian support 3G video calls... unlike other OS, which have to come up with some sort of app.

Very much agree to that statement. To compare with DSLR it's still way behind, even shooting at lowest ISO, DSLR still excels in details, colors, etc. especially when you pixel peep.
As for M4/3, I never really test in detail but have seens my colleague's GF3 images, and also tested my another colleague's PEN3, however the PEN3 I was shooting mostly around ISO1600 to freeze movement using faster shutter of around 1/100 or 1/125. Using 808 on the other hand, I have limited or little control, so I have to take from the angle with more light and when subject is not moving; The image result are a lot better than PEN3, the color, the details, and so on.
But IMO, in terms of noise, at high ISO it's better than 808, I'm using ISO 1600 on the PEN and the image are much more usable. Perhaps at lower ISO, probably 400 and below, the 808 does better, but I didn't really test the PEN at lower ISO.
For proper comparison, will need test each one out, but from GSMArena test result, the 808 does seems to perform much better than PEN at lower ISO.

I only wish they provide more manual controls on the 808 PureView (e.g. PSAM), or at least Shutter Priority mode.

Later you shoot "trans"

Time to get one yourself liao; time to retire the N8


Both offers FIXED focus, means you can take photo immediately without autofocus.

Infinity basically means settings the lens to focus at infinity (distant subject).
Hyperfocal is to focus at hyperfocal distance (based on the lens focal range and aperture, then focus at the hyperfocal distance where most will be in focus).

Not very good at explaining this. For DSLR, for infinity focus, usually you can focus at the most distance subject (or infinity) or if the lens have the infinity.
For hyperfocal, it's not that easy as it involves some calculation based on lens focal range and aperture mainly.

Not very good with technical explanation, best if you google it, they have examples and pictures for more clear understanding.
In short, Hyperfocal gives the greatest DOF (with acceptable sharpness), from a certain distant until infinity.
Use infinity when you want max possible sharpness at infinity (usually distant subject and you don't bother about those not far away).

Flickr itself will also apply some sharpening to the photos uploaded.

The smaller sensor size gives you easier to capture closeup due to the larger Depth Of Field. With bigger sensor, you have more shallow Depth of Field. Not sure how close S3 focusing capable, but should be closer than 808 as previous my friend got test.
But when compare details, and zoom in 100%, S3 noise reduction spoils the detail, water color look. Oh, this is indoor test. Moreover, the S3 punch in more contrast to their jpeg output.
So sharpness or clarify? Or due to Contrast?

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Added on July 31, 2012, 10:47 amImpressive review for 808 from DPReview:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/808383737...ia-808-pureview

It even qualifies or make it to the Studio Test.

The banding issue were also highlighted and some technical reason of possibly why it happened.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 31 2012, 10:47 AM

Not really in depth, just glancing through already spotted 2 mistake:
1. It says the default is 8MP in PureView mode? I thought it was 5MP?
2. It says no quicker way to activate the camera? I guess they didn't know about you can activate the camera by pressing and holding the shutter button even when the phone is sleep mode.

KTS is authorised dealer which is quite well known for selling Nokia Shop, well, at least the one in Aeon Bukit Raja. Although they're not official Nokia Store, people often mistaken them because in Aeon Bukit Raja, they're like the main shop for Nokia.

If you're referring to KTS in Aeon Bukit Raja, then it's very hear Federal Highway, once you pass the Klang toll, you will see it on your right already. To travel there is not far, it's like about 10 minutes drive from Subang/Sunway? It's also very near I-City only.
At least you avoided Klang Town, hehe.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 1 2012, 02:16 PM

Actually, it's not far if you try travel, if you can drive until Subang via Federal, it's just like 10 minutes drive or less. You're not entering Klang Town area, so it's avoiding all the traffics and road already; but must avoid after office hour.

Nah, just telling you that it's not very far if you actually travel, not to say that you should have done it.

I also don't like to travel far just to get something. But trouble travelling and far or not is different thing. Just like going KL, Megamall also KL, Pavillion also KL, but go Megamall from Subang/Sunway is easy and convenient, avoid all the traffic jam because you didn't enter the city centre yet, but to go Pavillion, you will need to, and just from Megamall to Pavillion, it may easily take much more than 10 minutes of drive and more troubles.


Yes, now is Aeon.


It is, and Maemo is still the best and most flexible OS, no one OS has come close to it. Different level.
BUT most people doesn't really bother about the OS capability, flexibility, etc. What's important to most people is APPS and GAMES.
Smartphone were once about making a mobile computer (PC in your pocket), but things change to many people's perception and understanding all because of iPhone.
Before, it was about making a OS capable, flexible like your Desktop OS, which the closest thing you can have is Maemo, you get proper DESKTOP experience (free to place your icons anywhere, even overlap, no fixed size widgets, very flexible and customizable widgets), you get to run so many things, it's a proper Linux in a mobile phone. Hard to describe the experience, but until today, I cannot find any smartphone OS that is able to match or offer similar experience; I'm talking about OS, not about what apps and games available or the hardware specs.

Nokia is emphasizing on Lumia devices only.

Even the N8 is enough to beat it.
Using 808 to compete with it, it's like giving it too much credit

S3 image have obvious different exposure. One X like close up macro shot as most of the things seems out-of-focus.

Overall, S3 is not bad, but N8 still capable of producing better detail as well as overall image quality. However most people will look at the pictures using the display of the phone taken, so................

Aiyah, even N8, no other phone can beat it yet. So, N8 is enough.

808 is way above the league to compare with the rest of phone camera.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 9 2012, 11:01 AM

To the hardcore 'budak kipas', iPhone sure is the best no matter what; but to me, it's still not a smartphone. It's just a mediaphone, and the camera I won't say it's bad, but it's has very nice display (one of the best) and the camera is really easy to use and smooth performance. For most users, they don't need good camera or quality pictures, as long as it's easy, smooth and fun to use, and show up nice in their phone display.

808 IS a smartphone. Symbian is a "proper" smartphone OS.
Windows Mobile is a smartphone OS.
For that you need to trace the history of smartphone. Which is from Pocket PC, and later add in phone functionality become a smartphone.
These OS, as the original name implies "Pocket PC", a PC in your pocket or Pocket Size PC.

What's a media player? It started long ago a music player, like Mp3 player.
Then come with multimedia capabilities like can view videos, etc. These OS are not meant to work like a computer in your pocket, but mainly multimedia, hence, its not important for it to give you mass-storage access, and all the flexibilities or capabilities of a proper OS, it's a controlled, restricted OS with very limited capabilities.
iPhone is not different from an iPod Touch; it's basically an iPod Touch with added phone feature, it comes with tons of limitations and restrictions, user's are controlled of what they can do and access.
If you trace back the history of iPhone, you may notice many "professionals" don't consider it as a smartphone, and you have to rely on a software for media transfer (ONLY), just like a media player.
Finally, the term jailbreak. In software world, we use hack/crack, etc. Because of iPhone, it comes a more noob-user-friendly term, jailbreak.
iPhone change the world, but to me, not in a good way; Yes, what they did like smoother, faster, is good; but it seems some manufacturer's blindly copy it, including the bad ones, like restrictions, limitations. The best example is Windows Phone.

Lastly, is it important to most users whether it is a smartphone or mediaphone? Sadly, no. Most people don't need a computer in the size of a pocket, people want long battery life, smooth, fast, easy to use, SIMPLE, and most importantly... tons of applications and games.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 10 2012, 05:39 PM

It depends where you're from and how you see technology. For most IT people, it just doesn't qualitfy as a smartphone because the OS doesn't perform perform as one. No point calling people this and that, I think that's just mean the same thing.

I'm not actually against Apple or iPhone, in fact, I have an iPod Touch and depend on people, I actually will suggest the person to get the iPhone; It just that, it doesn't make it as a "proper" smartphone; but is it important to most people? Not really.
The iPod Touch, it's 1/3 of iPhone's price; What iPhone offer is specifically the additional phone feature mainly, I don't think it's worth spending another 2/3 of the price for it.

All I can say is, iPhone actually killed smartphone. Before iPhone, smartphone OS was competing to provide more towards true mobile computing, more features, more functions, closing the gap towards your desktop computer. Then iPhone came, with all the things that were not common or non-standard for a smartphone OS... no filemanager? No access to mass storage? Not even bluetooth file transfer. In short, for those true smartphone users, suddenly using the iPhone, you won't feel it's a smartphone at all, especially if you're from IT background; These are NOT hardware limitations, it's software controlled. We paid so much more, to be controlled, restricted access, etc?
The bad thing is, when other company starts to follow and implement on their smartphone OS.
These aren't the characteristics of a proper smartphone OS, it's the common characteristics of a media players or those non-smartphone era where you need to rely on softwares and such to transfer files, etc.

The smartphone that brings closest mobile computing experience is the Nokia N900, which runs Maemo5 OS, it's a very capable Linux based OS and you can do many things like really having a computer in your pocket, it's the first smarpthone to have Full Flash, and the web browser you can activate "mouse cursor", and you can run many Linux desktop applications on it, there's also Chromium (Google Chrome) and so many more applications, there's even Java library available to run Java applets, and also you can run Netbeans (Java Programming IDE); there's mplayer which is available for desktop and allows you to play various types of media files. There's just so many things that can be done; in short, you will find many people saying it's like having a notebook in the size of a handphone that fits in your pocket.
It was available late 2009 or early 2010, when I have it in Feb 2010, it's like having a laptop in your hands at the size of the handphone; I can browse full Facebook site with Flash, the web browsing experience is simply amazing, and there's true multi-tasking, integrated social networks (Skype, Facebook, MSN via 3rd party plugins). In short, it can do most of the basic stuff like really having a laptop or netbook in the size of the pocket, no smartphone has been able to do it as complete as this EVEN UNTIL TODAY (Aug 2012).

Here's a good video review on the Nokia N900:


Anyway, as I said, not everyone cares about those, most people wants apps apps apps and games games games, and simple OS, smooth and stable. So, simply put, even though the N900 is amazing as a smartphone, but I won't recommend to most people.
The sad thing is, what will happen to smartphone future?
MS seems to dumb down their smartphone OS, although it's much much smoother, more stable, but seems they implemented Apple's bad points, restrictions, no file manager, no mass storage, must use software for MEDIA transfer, etc.... As I said, it's not hardware limitations, it simply they choose to RESTRICT, CONTROL OR not provide the function/feature; just imagine a 100K car with 6 AirBags, ABS, ESP, Full JBL Hi-Fi Sound System, etc. Then another similar category car priced similar at 100K, with only 1 AirBags and ABS, very basic and simple spec. It's not they don't have it, but they choose NOT to give.
Whether Apple/MS give the function or feature, it won't cost your any extra money.
With current trend, will there actually be a good smartphone OS available in future? Sadly, it's not so bright. Although Android is flexible and powerful, but it's still no where as flexible as Maemo5, Maemo5 offers proper Desktop as compared to the usual "homescreen", and Android homescreen doesn't seem to be as flexible as Symbian Belle (as in changing orientation).

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 12 2012, 12:49 AM

How can it be pointless when it is a SMARTPhone, and what is a smartphone?
As I said, there should be a clear distinction between a smartphone and mediaphone. Back then, there is non-smartphone and smartphone.

There're many types of users, we should look at every category of users, just as I said, there're people who like doesn't need a mobile computer device. So, these people should also be open and understand that there're users who want something more, similarly, there're still people who don't bother at all, they just want a phone to function as a phone, a basic simple phone.

Long ago, Nokia cater for many different category of users, from different series of their phone; Just because some people think the communicator is *pointless* doesn't mean this product is useless. Same goes to any product, cars, cameras, etc.

It's not syok sendiri; If you understand software, it's not something they cannot do or can't provide, it's they DON'T WANT to and yet they still selling so expensive.
If they say the users are too dumb to handle the complexity of a smartphone, doesn't mean the features have to be REMOVED or NOT PROVIDED. They can make the OS simple, then for advance users, these users can choose to turn on the features in SETTINGS.
The thing here is CHOICE/OPTIONS for users, but Apple did not choose to give any to the users.
Imagine if iPhone come out with their own digital camera, they remove the PSAM modes, everything runs on AUTO with their Apple's Intelligent Auto, no options to customize and manual features; then they tell the world, this changes everything. You don't need complicated features, just use our Auto modes and you'll get professional photo easily by one touch.
How come they don't do that to their Mac OS? Why did they limit and restrict their iOS? I know some IT Professionals who are Mac hardcore fans that don't like iPhone or iOS due to the restrictions and limitations. IT Professionals who understand software should understand very well that these aren't limitation of the hardware, but it's the company taking advantage of the users.

Anyway, as I mentioned, iPhone is not a bad thing, but the bad things are, the other companies that were threaten trying to follow it; Follow the good is OK and it's good; but sadly, they also copy the bads, the best example is Windows Phone, no bluetooth file transfer, reliance of Zune software for media transfer, no File Managers, etc. This was sooo sooo NOT Microsoft. And worst, what will happen to the future of "smartphone"?
Will everything trying to be the same and ended up we get more backwards technology OS?
There should be different category, those are that basic and simple, for those users who don't need those smartphone capabilities; There should also be those smartphone which cater for those who need and wants it.
Just like there're different category of notebooks, from netbooks for people who just want to do basic stuffs to powerful workstation notebooks for those professionals.
Smartphone? Symbian is dying, Maemo is dead, MeeGo is still unknown,... Windows Phone? Becoming like another iOS?
Android is the current one which going strong and offers the flexibility, but it's still lacking, especially on true multi-tasking part and some usability.


You're saying based on your perspective. As I said, there're people who don't need all those, just like those that just need a netbook for their needs, while there're those who need a powerful workstation notebooks. We should be open and think of different category of users.
Well, some may argue that, it's a phone, but that's what different user wants, and as smartphone original concept, it was to achieve mobile computing, not something like iOS.
iOS will fit nicely as a mediaphone OS, which I don't find anything wrong, it's just a name, just like a netbook, which is actually a notebook, but they simply decide to give it a new category and with certain characteristic that classifies it as a netbook, so with similar characteristic, we can classify a phone is a normal phone, smartphone or mediaphone.
As with mediaplayer, like iPod Touch, Zune Players, these are mainly use for media purpose, to play video files, listen to musics; there's no file managers, no mass storage access, have to rely on software to transfer media files. Of course, the iPod Touch have more capabilities like web browser, and supports for applications. But's it's still a very limited and controlled OS, unlike a smartphone which are meant to work like a mobile computer phone. If you have use the Pocket PC before there was even a smartphone, you'll know the purpose of a Pocket PC, and when they first introduce smartphone, it's to cater for those people who carries a Pocket PC and a phone, now they can carry 1 device, which is a smartphone.
For those who likes to carry a media players on the other hands, don't really need or want a Pocket PC, and carries a phone, the mediaphone would be a good choice.

Different people have different needs. As of current, what I can see is, iPhone change the smarpthone world not in a good way; unless you think everyone should use the same product OR all OS should work about the similar way? Monopoly? I prefer there're different product that cater for different people.

Did I not realize and understand? I think you misunderstand? I said, iPhone caters for certain category of users, but from previous post, did you realize that you're saying as if, you don't need a mobile computer, as if it's not necessary to exist in this world? Unless you type wrongly or mean something else? From the statement, I presume you don't realize and understand that there're different users with different needs, hence my LONG explanation with various examples with different category of notebooks. Just because many people just need a simple netbook or even the ultrabook, doesn't mean the powerful workstation notebook shouldn't exist, right? Unless you disagree?
For notebook, we still have many different categories available, even for other products like cars, DSLR, etc.
But smartphone? Many proper smartphone OS are dying, moreover, what Apple did like no bluetooth file transfer, no FileManager, etc. has "infected" Microsoft, with the Windows Phone not having all these. To me, this is a bad thing.

Yes, but they change how people see and understand smartphones. They did good where they make somethings that's smooth, as well as the App Store. But, the bad thing that happen is, the varieties or choice of proper smartphone OS is reducing, and worst of all, Windows Phone has followed the footsteps of iPhone. Don't get me wrong, I like Windows Phone concept and all, but very disappointed when I found out they implemented the restrictions and limitations like iPhone, it just suddenly feels so... stupid? No bluetooth file transfer, no FileManager, No MassStorage, etc.

The key point here is, take the GOODS and drop the BADS. But instead, they take everything.
What will the future be like? Everything look like iPhone, no bluetooth file transfer, no FileManager, no MassStorage, Must use software to transfer media files?
Honestly, I don't hope to see thing happening to smartphones.
There should be at least different alternatives for different categories of users.

Symbian is dying.
Maemo is dead/killed. MeeGo was killed, but maybe revive but can it survive is another question.
The only strong survivor is Android, mainly due to Google's strength.

Whether it's minority users or majority users; Like I said before, remember the olden days of Nokia, you have so many different models for different category of users. I prefer that world, than one phone to rule them all.
It's not just changing folders and so on, it's about bringing mobile computing, where I can do most of the things without by notebook/netbook, I can remote to my PC and controls it, I can browse the web with full desktop version (Maemo5 even have support for Mouse Cursor, which allows you to do more stuffs like click and drag, mouse over, right-click, etc). In short, not everyone need, but still quite many do.
Even some may not need, but if they know they can, they might want it.
The thing is, you don't need, just don't use. As simple as that. Apple can give all these, BUT they choose NOT to.
Microsoft Windows Phone could've been very successful, but suddenly, they implemented all the restrictions and limitations like iPhone and turning many people down, IF it's just as bad as the iPhone in terms of limitations and restrictions, why should the person choose Windows Phone over iPhone?

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 13 2012, 10:05 AM

Well, it depends how you see it. Maybe because there's a category which cater for your need so, you won't demand more.
But IF Apple implemented more features on iOS, making it more smartphone like, offering flexbility, external storage, file managers, bluetooth file transfer, etc. Would you welcome it? Or would you deny it?
Of course, not everyone need the feature, but doesn't mean the feature needs to be remove or not provided; Don't need then don't use, those who need it, can use it.

Just like camera on smartphones, let's say Camera Flash, some don't use flash, then just turn it off. Don't need HDR, then don't use HDR. But not having the feature is another story.

Apple chosen to restrict, limits and control iOS. It's OK, for those who don't like it, can go for alternatives.
But if others OS starts to follow iOS, then it's a problem.

Yes, there're many goods; The bad is how it influence other manufacturer, so it's not fully Apple's fault, it's how other manufacturer learn and adapt. As I said, take the GOODS and drop the BADS, but Microsoft done the blind step by taking everything, they implemented the BADS. So, why choose Windows Phone then?
Windows Phone could've been very successful, if only Microsoft didn't added restrictions and limitations and not providing many common smartphone features.

Legacy Desktop? Smartphone OS already different from Desktop. Apple not providing a proper homescreen (as commonly found on smartphone) is breakway? LoL. That is not breakaway. If I don't want homescreen, then I just turn it off of don't use it at all. The key here is CHOICE/OPTIONS. Having no homescreen, widgets support means not providing this feature instead of giving user a choice, that is not breakaway, that's taking off the value of something. Of course, in Apple's point of view, they would want to user/fans to support them so they don't have to provide this feature.

This is the good part which iOS did very well, but it has nothing to do with the above. Even with all this, it has nothing to do with providing user choices/options, controlling, limiting and restricting users.

Wow. That's very biased to protect Apple's strategy? No?

Nerd? You don't nee a nerd to complaint. Many of non-IT people who have been using smartphones long before iPhone, when they use iPhone, they will find many missing features, restrictions and limitations. Some people may accept and close-eye on it, but that's what they want consumers to do. Removing/Not providing common features found on smartphone and want people to accept this. Will you accept this? Most basic users don't bother as it's not a MUST, but still it's a NICE TO HAVE; I for one, would definitely welcome and encourage them to implement and provide this.
But it doesn't matter even if they don't provide this, because those that don't like it, can go for alternatives; The issue here is, when others starts to follow, so it's like creating some new standards that new smartphones should not allow bluetooth file transfer, should not have File Managers, etc? To me, that's not a good change. Unless you feel it's a breakaway, forward thinking, etc.

As I said before, there're Mac fans/users themselves are not happy with iOS restrictions and limitations; When you understand software and it's not limited by the hardware, but more of the decision of the company, whether they want to provide and give you the choice or options.
Just as how I said:
The Car selling at SG for say RM100K after convert, has 6 AirBags, ESP, Full HiFi SoundSystem, HUD, ColorScreen MFD, Auto Wipers, Auto Light, etc.
The same Car selling at MY for similar RM100K, has 2 Airbags, and none of the features above, basically a very simple spec. It is the choice of the Distributor decision when bring in the models, whether they give the full spec or low spec, they still price it at RM100K.
Or let's say a camera, the newer models with newer firmwares comes with HDR modes, and more nice features (software based), and this feature can actually be provided in the older models; it s a matter of decision whether the company want to provide or not. Most users may not question and ask as they don't understand how software works.
If you still cannot understand this concept and still agree and support Apples decision, then I have nothing else to say, there's no point for us to discuss because clearly we have very different views because it's not we misunderstand each other view, but actually we understand each others view and explanation, and we support our own different views.

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Added on August 13, 2012, 2:37 pmThere're actually many more to list; Googling around can give you the long list, even Windows Phone have their own list.

As one reviewer said, I would very well agree with what he said: For those just want to do basic web browsing, play some games, listen to some songs, use some apps. The iPhone is PERFECT choice.
But we should understand, not everyone can be satisfied with this. We're always moving forward, learning more stuffs, and have DEMAND. People improve and eventually will want something more.

Just as tablets, some people thought Tablets can work like a Notebook; After they bought the iPad, horror...
So switch to Android Tablets... can do more stuffs, but still... many things cannot do.
End up, have to bring Notebook.
So, have to carry Tablet and Notebook? Or just carry Notebook? Can Tablet replace Notebook? Not yet... Unless it's a Windows Tablet? But it's not working very well right? Not sure about Windows 8 Tablet.

It's the same as Pocket PC and Phone. Those that have Pocket PC, would love to have proper Pocket PC funtionality and capabilities in their Phone.
Then, there's those that don't carry Pocket PC, but carries media player and Phone. To them, Phone that can fullfill their need is enough. BUT then, having more capabilities won't hurt; It's how well the software is being implemented and letting user to choose.



This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 13 2012, 02:37 PM

Yes, what matter most is the product sells. But when user got no demand, things will slowly fade and gone missing.
As I said, like bluetooth file transfer, mass storage, file managers, etc. It can be implemented at NO EXTRA COST and not an issue, just a matter of MANAGEMENT DECISION. When people don't demand and fight for it, then it will slowly become non-existent and become a standard that NO NEED TO GIVE.

Why are cars now having requirement to have 2 Air Bags? Recently ESP is also being requested as a requirement for Malaysian Market.

How come smartphones are going BACKWARDS and getting LESS features?

Apple has the pride not to give and their fans/users will accept it easily. But it's OK because there're different category of users that can accept it. The problem is still as I mentioned before, when others starts to follow and slowly this is becoming a "standard". Do you think it's a good thing? I don't.

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Added on August 13, 2012, 2:46 pmIsn't much of an issue for you, right? But as a product, shouldn't it reach more customers?
It won't hurt to give, and it won't hurt if your phone have this feature right? Will you welcome this feature or say NO to the feature?
That's what I'm trying to say.

I've been waiting for this to pop-up
Don't use? Then turn it off "lor"
Or by default turn it off or not installed.
KEY POINT: LET USER CHOOSE.
PROVIDE OPTIONS/CHOICE FOR USERS, Not force them to accept and live with it.

Did nobody still don't get this until now?
Note: This applies to any products, not everyone use all the features available, be it, Camera, Cars, Music Instruments like Digital Piano, Keyboards, etc. Not everyone utilize the features available. Should these feature be remove and become a standard to NO LONGER be included?
Should smartphone in future have less and less features and those common, useful, nice to have, convenient features be REMOVE and NO LONGER provided?


This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 13 2012, 02:50 PM