because historical barber-surgeons were not considered doctors, and called mr. by the physicians...

the barber surgeon colleges dates back centuries, the first being the rcs edinburgh, given the royal charter by king james in 1505 (not kidding)....

for the first 3+ centuries they were not considered doctors by the physicians of the day, and the term mr. used, in a condescending way.....

when formal medical education was established to include surgery, in the 19th century, the usage of mr. persist for barber surgeon fellows.....

it is still used in the british isles and ireland, and some commonwealth countries.....

it's use is traditionally restricted to fellows of the 4 historical barber-surgeon colleges, ie edinburgh, england, glasgow and ireland...but the australiasian college has also adopted the practice...

there is reverse snobbery now, as surgeons proudly use that title as a badge of honour that they are 'higher' than mere doctors!

however, ironically, in msia, masters graduates in surgery from local unis (um/ukm/usm) have used that title, although it is inappropriate, as they are not fellows of the barber-surgeons.....you know, tumpang glamour a bit...

only if they are fellows of the ancient barber-surgeon colleges....the others should NOT be using that title.....

i usually pointedly call them dr. xxx instead of mr. xxx.....

in malaysia, only the govt doctors seems to be fixated with this.....most surgeons in private practice just use the simple dr, to avoid confusion with the public....it is also not an issue in north america, where everybody is a dr. xxx, md.........

but in your particular case, he would be indeed a fellow of one of the scottish ancient barber-surgeon colleges.....in fact, a double fellow.....

as a guide, look for the alphabets frcs(college name) or fracs.....

the masters will not have these....

they will be img's, but since it is gmc recognised, probably need not sit for the plab....

for non eu residents, they will have to fight with the sub-continent imgs for places...

the question is, what happens if a british graduate with this degree.....what happens.....

like i said before, those graduated up to 1989 are recognised by the gmc, and can get full registration....

many actually went and worked a while in uk...it was as simple as flying there as a tourist, apply for jobs, and then once getting an offer, converting the tourist visa into a 4 year work visa.....

many however did not, but the old style frcs can be sat for, with recognised work in some hospitals in msia....once signed up, they can just register with the colleges and fly to uk to sit for the exams....

it is still possible to sit for the exam, but the name has been changed to mrcs, which is not recognsied by msia....the frcs now is the speciality 'part 3' exam previously, which can only be sat for with recognised training rotation in the uk....no training in msia is recognised for this....hence surgical training are now exclusively masters for local msian graduates.....

no...the old frcs was the only fellowship given previously, and the standards required is like the current frcs...however, because of subspecialisation, a 'part 3' frcs was started, in subspeciality....ie for certification after a period of further subspeciality training....

because it was confusing, they decided to just give one frcs, and general surgery added as one of the subspeciality...the old original frcs was then downgraded into a lower qualification and name changed to afrcs, and now mrcs.....

the extend of knowledge and experience expected for the mrcs is less than the original frcs.....the original frcs is equivalent to the current frcs(gen surgery).......

in the past, neurosurgeons are also frcs....now they get frcs(surgical neurology).....

hope that makes sense...

it's the peninsula medical school......under the 2 unis of exeter and plymouth.....

recent new med schools have all been affiliated med schools with established ones (eg, keele with manchester, durham with newcastle), or joint ones between adjacent unis, eg hull/york, brighton/sussex.....

so what's the mara scholars' results?.....

the shortfall now is about 182 places, for 2013, of which the federal govt had allocated $10mil to accommodate 100.....the respective states are supposed to cough up the balance to absorb the remaining 82, but due to politics, have been dragging their feet....looks like the wa gov is the first to move...

when a 4th year medical student asks such questions, it is terrifying....what sort of students are taken in nowadays.....and what kind of med schools that give no clue to postgraduate pathways to their students in advanced stages of the course.....

there is a BIG difference between knowing WHAT field one may want to specialise in (which agreed, is mostly decided after one has started work).....and knowing HOW it is done, even if one may not do it......

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Added on October 17, 2012, 9:13 ammsian medical degrees are NOT recognised anywhere else in the world....with the exception of um's and ukm's, which are recognised by singapore.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Oct 17 2012, 09:16 AM

of course there are qualifying exams doctors can take to get registration in most countries....

shouldn't a medical student know all these facts?....BEFORE embarking on a particular medical school.....?

this is going to be another fake...like that winson guy....entering glasgow medical school at 15?....

even the space tourist is involved....

http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...619&sec=central

yes it is.....they have been unable to fill all the places, and have resorted to dumbing down their selection, like all the other ipts med schools.....they have ignored the isat results.....and atar scores taken in are very much lower than the 99.0 used in clayton.....

the reason is partly the cost.....and partly the realisation by many parents that it is not the same degree as the clayton one.....and there is smaller and smaller chance of doing internship in oz going forward....

in this respect, imu-pms is definitely the better choice, especially the uk matches.....that is why the imu-pms undergraduate stream is the most popular and heavily over subscribed, and now probably the most difficult ipts med school to get into.....

imu still advertises their pms programme, but it's usually part of a uni-wide advert, more targeting at potential students for their other programmes.....they have enough applicants for the pms programme.....

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Added on October 18, 2012, 12:07 pmit is misleading, but they are desperate.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Oct 18 2012, 12:07 PM

in countries with socialised education system, the selection of medical students is not based on cost or ability to pay......

in capitalised education system like the us, where most unis are privately run, and charges fees, there is also little selection based on ability to pay....although there is affirmative action policies to help minorities and indigent students.....

the system now existing in msia is one where there exist several parallel systems, each with a different set of characteristics.....

the ipta is heavily subsidised, and takes in both the best students, as well as nep compliant students.....

ipts generally is money based......

foreign med schools like russia/ukraine/indonesia are for cheaper courses and for students who are weaker....

non of the systems are based purely on merit.....

you will not be looking for housemanship jobs when you are in 5th year of melbourne's undergraduate medical course......

the last intake of the undergraduate system was 2008, ie that cohort is now in the 5th year, and still have i more year to go next year 2013.....

there was no intake in 2009 and 2010.....

the first graduate entry cohort was in 2011, and will graduate end 2014......because it is 4 year.....not 5......

those who entered in 2008 in the last undergraduate cohort will enter final year next year, and start housemanship applications in mid 2013.......to start in 2014....

the numbers for 2014 will not be known till all applications are in, and there will likely be expansion of intern jobs as well.....so the mismatch will be unknown until then.....

i wonder why the respective states refused to come up with the extra 8 million for the last 80 grads.....divided amongst the states, it's only less than 2 million each....

now, this problem is not going away even if the 8 million comes through this time....the numbers goes up some more for 2014.....i believe it only peaks and plateau off about 2006.....when all the new med schools starts graduating....

i wonder if mr. noor is a jpa/mara scholar and should really return to msia and fulfil the bond?.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Nov 8 2012, 02:36 PM