That's exactly the point. He had to know. Any sensible owners should had been more careful with just trust. Stop thinking that FSG is blameless in all of this. They were the one that hired Kenny, then let him spent that money despite having placed a DOF to oversee Kenny.

League position - terrible.

Sensible signings - Only Downing, Carroll and if you want Henderson but these guys were brought for HG quota in mind as well and that comes with a premium. Adam - well, 7 million not exactly terrible. Bellamy, Coates, Suarez and Enrique - not so bad.

Good football? Certainly better than what we were playing towards the end of Rafa's tenure and under Roy. Good enough to hit woodwork 33 times as well. Defensively .. joint third in best defence.

Depth of squad - You aren't going to have a depth of squad in one full season where you've got rid of almost 10 deadwoods. Would you prefer to have Mata, Augero and Young as first team players but Poulsen, Konchesky, Degen and N'gog as back ups? I'd rather give him another season to buy some established players then have Downing, Adam, Carroll as back ups. In short, you need wayyyyyyyyy more than 100 million (well 58 came from Torres + Babel's sale) to even build a first team, let alone the bench. So technically, FSG only invested 42 million.

As for Arsenal .. they pretty much had to just compete with Man United, Newcastle and maybe ourselves back then. Now we've got to compete with Spurs, Man City, Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal and maybe even Newcastle.

Okay so he was appointed mid season and finished 2nd in the next season, which means f*** all and goes on a 11th, 13th and 6th the next season? And in that same exact time, Kenny Daglish wins the double in his first season.

Second stint, half season not so bad but first full season terrible but people forget the nightmare we were in 2 years before and a huge change of fortune is needed in all honesty. Improvements and progression is more than just about one (and a half) season.

thanks for the memories, K Dalglish

gutted.
it will be difficult for liverpoolfc. its now likely we'll be years more in the wilderness.
The current core of the liverpool squad isn't good enough to crack into CL spot (any where near 4th spot next season), and I don't know any manager let alone rafa can pull it off. As much as i think rafa should be the candidate, i'm thinking its maybe premature for liverpoolfc investing in him. maybe FSG thinks rafa is difficult (hence afraid) and may get another round of fans to revolt if funds are streaming in??? 

What could he do ? Simple. Leadership. But when you start hiring people and then sacking them and then repeating the process again and again. People will start wondering whether you are making the right decisions. Surely you can understand at least that much.

My beef is not with the sacking of Kenny but the lack of leadership of FSG. And no i don;t consider sacking people is a show of leadership either. The club has to do much more than that.

H&G

i'm pretty sure rafa help to point out the glaring non supporting then owners to the fans (hence the big dissatisfaction displayed/banners of the "owners out")

We're going in circles here. I get that sacking underperfomers takes place in the real world. But sometimes you have to wonder why those people are hired in the first place. For instance, was Kenny the right person for the job ? Was Hogdson the right manager to replace Rafa ? Did Villareal made the right choice of appointing those 3 managers before they get relegated ? Was Shearer the right appointment before Newcastle fell from grace ? That's the point i'm trying to get across.

I think it's only logical we ask this questions. Because sometimes the root of the problem doesnt always begin at the manager.

No doubt in general, the seaosn has been bad but we actually reached two finals in three competitions we started out with. We won one. We qualified for Europe. We didn't have this at this stage last season. I believe the league measures your capability and we did terrible there, no doubt about it but as I've said, the league has become more difficult with teams capable of taking points off each other.

Maybe not great football but maybe we did enough (here comes this topic again) to win games. Yes, whether you deserved to win games or not, doesn't matter in football but why is always that the opponents are scoring from their only shot at goal, yet we can't score with 15x the attempts and we actually have one of the best defence in the league (as I said, joint 3rd best defence). The major problem is the attackers.

Depth of squad and as I have pointed out, would you prefer to have 3-5 world class players starting week in, week out but a totally shite bench (poulsen, degen, el zhar, n'gog) or slowly introduce good players to the bench?

Like I've said, 100 million in one season isn't going to build a top team especially with the fact that opponents like Man City, Chelsea, Man United have been spending 100 millions for at least 3 seasons, that is why their bench is strong and their first team are challenges.

I only put in the players costing 15 million or more and those who I feel expensive at that time (like Diouf, Heskey and Lampard)

United - Stam (10 mil), Yorke (12 mil), Van Nistelrooy (19 mil), Veron (28 mil), Ferdinand (29 mil), Ronaldo (13 mil), Saha (13 mil), Rooney (27 mil), Carrick (19 mil), Hargreaves (18 mil), Anderson (16 mil), Nani (17 mil), Smalling (12 mil), Jones (16 mil), De Gea (20 mil), Young (18 mil), Berbatov ( 31 mil), Valencia 17 mil).

that's 335 million and you can argue that at the time they were bought (considering year and their age), they are costly and majority came even before Ronaldo was sold for 80 mil and he himself for an 18 year old at 13 mil, is just costly.

Chelsea - Sutton (10 mil), Hasselbaink (15 mil), Lampard (11 mil), Ferreira (13 mil), Makelele (17 mil), Crespo (17 mi), Mutu (16 mil), Veron (15 mil), Duff (17 mil) , Drogba (24 mil), Carvalho (20 mil), Mikel (16 mil), Shevchenko (30 mil), Essien (24 mil), Wright-Phillips (21 mil), Anelka (15 mil), Malouda (14 mil), Bosingwa (16 mil), Zhirkov (18 mil), Ramires (18 mil), Luiz (26 mil), Torres (50 mil), Mata (24 mil), Lukaku (20 mil), Meireles (12 mil)

479 mil and again, costly at the times they were bought for most of them and Chelsea has no good record of selling players.

Man City - Aguero (38 mil), Nasri (22 mil), Toure (24 mil), Silva (25 mil), Balotelli (25 mil), Milner (26 mil), Dzeko (27 mil), Santa Cruz (18 mil), Tevez (26 mil), Adebayor (25 mil), Toure (16 mil), Lescott (22 mil), Jo (18 mil), Robinho (33 mil), Bridge (12 mil), Bellamy (14 mil), De Jong (16 mil)

One league title and one FA Cup after 387 million in the last 4 years.

Liverpool - Henderson (20 mil), Downing (20 mil), Suarez (23 mil), Carroll (35 mil), Meireles (12 mil), Johnson (18 mil), Aquilani (20 mil), Keane (19 mil), Mashcerano (17 mil), Torres (22 mil), Babel (12 mil), Alonso (11 mil), Cisse (14 mil), Diouf (11 mil), Heskey (11 mil)

265 million - and considering the nightmare between 2010-2012 and the fact that only six of the 15 players above remain in Liverpool, we've always got a huge task against them lot.

As for Arsenal .. Wenger is just a genius!

If the club is still English own, i think the derby and winning FA will still be able to placate a mild season.  Fortunately or unfortunately, we have american who knows nothing about football (or soccer) owning the club now.  Derby du nmean nothing to them.  How much money the derby generate is more interesting.

Its reality.  like it or not, real or fake.... we have to accept that.

I honestly think that those points best judge after 3 seasons. Mancity needed a couple of season after heavy investments to achieve results. The action taken by FSG is kinda hasty, will they keep sacking manager when it doesn't work after 2 seasons? They have that track record with Red Sox.

It sad to see Kenny sacked. I'm confidence he will stay for another season but thats not the case. Sad.

not that successful at 1 and 2? so we sack the man after 1 season eh? one freaking season!

So,

sensibility of signings are judged after ONE season
Depths of squad are judged after ONE season
Results are judged after ONE season...

Have we not learned from Lucas? Was Skrtle impressing everyone during his first season?

ONE freaking season!

Alex did well in his first season?

Most of your 5 points cant really be judge in 1 season. Is not fair. When Mourinho came he already has good foundations of players left by Ranieri. When Kenny took over, the team is already broken up and some are already ageing. So 1 full season is not suitable for benchmarking.
Further proves they are in it for the money. Sad reality of football nowadays, it's a business. I dont say FSG are doing the same thing as H&G but its still abit concerning if they keep follow that road. They said themselves that they are in it for the long run so they probably know football bussiness is risky with possibility of not winning anything in the rebuilding phase. Now that they sacked Kenny, the rebuilding phase start from zero again.

2nd in first full season, 11th and 13th in the following season.  Under FSG, out you go...!

Wenger? under FSG, maybe he can stay.  No cup is okay.  As long as got CL football and bank accounts all balanced mahhh....

 

So do you know the exact answers to those questions ? And all this football is business malarkey is getting tedious. We all know it is a business, but sometimes you have to question the decision making process. Look, H&G almost drove this club into the ground and to them it was all business. So stop sayiing its fine and dandy because it's all business. No one here knows the exact route Henry and FSG are taking here, so lets no pretend that we do.

Where was I wrong?

not sure if you take Wikipedia as facts but here goes

`Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap...ta-ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[45][46] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.[47][48]
However, Ferguson later revealed that the board of directors had assured him that they were not considering dismissing him. Although naturally disappointed with the lack of success in the league, they understood the reasons for the sub-standard results (namely the absence of several key players due to injury) and were pleased with the way that Ferguson had reorganised the club's coaching and scouting system.'

yeah you're right on one thing....His boss agreed with him....the management acknowledged his effort. 

Kenny's boss didn't.  After one season.  His signings weren't sensible enough.  For one season.

Its NOT an issue to sack Kenny after one season because....because......it applied to Roy Hodgson too? 

No actually you are wrong there. The bulk of the 100mil transfer money came from the sale of Torres, Meireles and Ngog who were all bought under H&G. So yea we still kinda sold players in order to buy new ones.

err..how to convince Torres to stay by showing him 100 millions of the transfer money? Half of the money came from selling him?

And Torres or Meireless were not exactly setting Chelsea on fire isn't it? after one season.....

means stevie G will become scapegoat for england failure later  no leadership+no wonder liv in turmoil etc etc
more ppl will kutuk him+liverpool

i donno if they have that much money to spend on rebuilding Liverpool......or that they are willing to show to Torres as a bait... .....but i do know that
Torres was already trying to look for an exit door and at the end of the day, almost half of FSG's ACTUAL budget in signing new players came from our former no 9

That's a quick turn around from what you kept implying tho. You were making it as if the 100mil transfer fund came from their pocket. It wasnt, the bulk of it came from Chelsea.

to honest, torres doesn't look like the world beater like he used to after his injury. he was either injured or sulking in the last 2 seasons with LFC. he don't want to in liverpool anymore and nothing could change his mind. "no one bigger than the club" did actually saves us from mediocrity back in the 90s. When the Spice Boys running the backroom until Houllier came and knock some sense to them. he shipped out all deadwood and revamped most of the way the club run things.

Anyway, as per sensible signing... what if the signing is actually made and brokered by DoF Comolli?

After all this malarkey, this is the best time to ask the progress of building the new stadium. 2 years and still barely a progress since H&G era.

You can only imply they have the money.  What actually happened was they used the sales money to buy. 

Well, lets wait and see. If they do have the money even before the sales of Torres...it should still be there....so lets wait for at least 50 million of transfer money for the new gaffer...

No it belongs to Liverpool FC. And money coming from selling our assets is not the same as money forking out from FSG pocket. Amd it's still not clear whether or not we've completely stopped selling players in order to buy. The jury is still out on this one.

i dont get it...

you mean from Torres sales? as in FSG keeping the money for themselves and not releasing it to Kenny to reinvest?