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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Bye Dirk Kuyt!

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Cloud0890
post May 20 2012, 03:22 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ May 20 2012, 03:04 AM)
Now that's confusing. KD was offered 3 years contract and 100m+ to spend. Unless the yanks are damn rich, or else, what's the point of giving 3 years contract and 100m+ to a person who is only here for short term?
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1. We were a club in turmoil and no one better to stabilize the ship than the legend, a successful 2nd half of his first season back in charge had fans pressure FSG into appointing Kenny to a permanent role.

2. Let's not forget a huge chunk of the 100mil came from Mr. Abramovich, so FSG didn't actually fork out that big a sum of money out of their pockets.

3. The instruction was to sign young players with potential and will have decent sell on fee in the future. It means that even if a new manager was to come in, these young players can either contribute if the new manager likes them or be sold on for a decent fee if he doesn't.

4. Kenny was dismissed almost as soon as the season ended proving FSG's lack of confidence in him to lead the club forward. Some said it was because of the Suarez saga but I doubt that alone is a good enough reason to dismiss the legend. Didn't we have some sort of a director of communications? Was it because of the Suarez saga that led to his dismissal?
Burningsunz
post May 20 2012, 03:26 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 02:15 AM)
Personally I think the dismissal of Kenny is justified. Had Hodgson spent 100mil and ended up in 8th place he would've been slated by fans. Kenny claims that his Liverpool team plays great football but only lacking in the finishing department, I somewhat disagree. It's pretty obvious that all this team can do is pass around in our own half pretending we are Barcelona whilst lacking creativity and flair in the final 3rd. Its true that we have been rather unlucky this season with all the shots hitting the post but that's not an excuse, his should have made signing a true out and out goal poaching striker a priority to compete with Suarez and Carroll. Splashing 20mil on Downing and 16mil on Henderson were horrendous decisions. 20mil for a player who didn't make an assist or scored a goal, when he was signed Kenny openly praised his high cross completion rate expecting him to create goal scoring opportunities from the wing for Andy Carroll. But he failed to realize that Downing has no pace and dribbling ability whatsoever to be effective from the wing, how do you expect someone to make plays from the wing when he can't dribble past even one defender. All I saw from him was standing around on the wing waiting for a pass and when he has the ball he passes it away because he can't find a way past the defender marking him. The signing of Henderson is somewhat more understandable because he is young and has the potential to succeed in the future. I'm not saying these players are bad players but at that price I'm pretty sure Kenny could've signed some foreign players that are cheaper and much better than those two.

Don't think reappointing Rafa is the right choice as well, thanks for his CL win but he won it with Houllier's team except for a few. He made some really poor signings at first but he finally got it right eventually and we came close to a title before his outburst at Fergie, maybe not entirely Rafa's fault we failed at the end but the beginning of the meltdown was when he wanted to get rid of Alonso for Barry. This decision baffled probably everyone who follows english football. Also to be honest under Rafa, we played some really boring football that's based on defense and closing down opponents forcing them into mistakes instead of focusing on creating our own chances. The tactical genius he is he often chooses certain tactics and players to counter our opponent's threats even at home games against lesser teams, why worry about them, why not attack and make them worry about us? I still miss Xabi very much  sad.gif

Roberto Martinez, poor choice! Wigan has been in the PL for 7 years, prior to Martinez's appointment they finished in 11th place under Steve Bruce, after his appointment it was relegation battle year after year showing no improvement whatsoever. Yes he had to operate under a tighter budget than it was for Bruce but look at Everton, Everton have one of the tightest budgets in the PL and they finished ahead of us this season (depressing!) Even newly promoted Norwich and Swansea who were tight on budget and lacking top flight experience did better than Martinez's Wigan.

Pep and Mourinho are nothing but fantasy for us when even Brendan Rodgers rejected our advances. Latest rumour is Michael Laudrup, not sure about him though, he has had some success with Getafe playing attacking football a few seasons back if I remembered right. Personally at this moment our best choice would probably be AVB. A protege of Sir Bobby Robson along with Mourinho, worked with Mourinho's championship winning team at Chelsea, had considerable success at Porto, plays free flowing attacking football, young and hungry, and most importantly he will want payback for what he received at Chelsea. Unlike Chelsea where there's a bunch of old guards who were resisting changes he was trying to implement, Liverpool are a club in transition and would be more willing to learn and revive the club together, player and manager. If FSG are willing to give him time to make his mark unlike Mr. Roman Impatient Abramovich, he would have more chance for succeeding with us than Chelsea.

YNWA

tl;dr = No Martinez, Yes AVB
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how could liverpool playing boring football under rafa when came back from 3 nil down in champion's league final? and remember how fast we close down our opponents and play attractive football to beat man utd,barcelona,real madrid and juventus??

Cloud0890
post May 20 2012, 03:46 AM

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QUOTE(Burningsunz @ May 20 2012, 03:26 AM)
how could liverpool playing boring football under rafa when came back from 3 nil down in champion's league final? and remember how fast we close down our opponents and play attractive football to beat man utd,barcelona,real madrid and juventus??
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Well coming back from 3-0 down wasn't actually attacking football, it was 6 mins of madness and we had to survive an onslaught after that.

Beating big teams doesn't signify attractive football, for example beating Barca, Rafa was in especially given credit for deploying Arbeloa at left back nullifying Messi, same goes to Juve I still remember that awesome Garcia goal in the 1st leg to this day but the 2nd leg was just defending all the way. Do anyone still remember one game we had against Arsenal in which we trashed them but I forgot what the score is...I think it was during the 08-09 season. That game for example shows how good Rafa is tactically, his tactics are almost always based on hard working players closing down opponents to nullify their threat, forcing them into mistakes that leads to goal scoring opportunities. You can say its counter attacking football at its best but definitely not attractive and creative when compared to Arse or Manure.

Not saying we never had any attacking performances under Rafa, its just that he is often very cautious with his approach. Tactical genius but more defensive than offensive.

This post has been edited by Cloud0890: May 20 2012, 03:54 AM
hfi
post May 20 2012, 03:56 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 02:59 AM)
Like I said I give Rafa credit for what he managed to achieve and I did say the rant wasn't exactly why we failed in the end and it wasn't entirely Rafa's fault we failed. The BUT here is what could have happened had he not indirectly forced the irreplaceable Alonso out of the club for Barry, strengthen even more during the off season and finally get the holy grail? And in my opinion, pressing =/= attacking football, we resort to pressing because of our overall incompetence in passing and close control that leads to losing the ball often but yes this is only my personal opinion and is subjected to debate so this isn't exactly the point I was trying to make, it was the Barry for Alonso incident. Well Rafa had his chance, so maybe someone else?

Yes Kenny was viewed only as a short term solution to stabilize the club, but it is understandable why FSG wants a change following 100mil spent and 8th place finish where Everton who spent much less finished above us. Important point here is Kenny wasn't FSG's first choice and will never be given time to perform.
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Barry is in a team that just won the league ffs. So i think it's fair to say that Rafa saw something in him.

No offence man, but you simply do not Rafa's system enough to judge it. Rafa was an innovator, he introduced a system that many clubs are now adopting. We didn't resort to pressing because of incompetence. Pressing was very much part our high tempo game - or for any other teams that play high tempo football. His team scored upto 77 league goals - outscoring all the other teams in the league. Not bad for boring football.

Here's a quote for you:

" Rafa Benitez created a 4-4-2 much more dynamic than the usual English 4-4-2. Because he introduced speed in ball possession, he gave it variation between forward and lateral passes. " - Andrea Villa Boas.
ALeUNe
post May 20 2012, 03:59 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ May 20 2012, 03:04 AM)
Now that's confusing. KD was offered 3 years contract and 100m+ to spend. Unless the yanks are damn rich, or else, what's the point of giving 3 years contract and 100m+ to a person who is only here for short term?
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it was never meant to be short term, if King Kenny produced good results.
digilife
post May 20 2012, 04:02 AM

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Robben and Ribery is so good, we should buy any one of them.........


Cloud0890
post May 20 2012, 04:06 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ May 20 2012, 03:56 AM)
Barry is in a team that just won the league ffs. So i think it's fair to say that Rafa saw something in him. 

No offence man, but you simply do not Rafa's system enough to judge it. Rafa was an innovator, he introduced a system that many clubs are now adopting. We didn't resort to pressing because of incompetence. Pressing was very much part our high tempo game - or for any other teams that play high tempo football. His team scored upto 77 league goals - outscoring all the other teams in the league. Not bad for boring football. 

Here's a quote for you:

" Rafa Benitez created a 4-4-2 much more dynamic than the usual English 4-4-2. Because he introduced speed in ball possession, he gave it variation between forward and lateral passes. " - Andrea Villa Boas.
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Like I said a tactical genius who implements not attractive but effective football. But Barry is not and never will be anywhere as good as Xabi Alonso. Likewise Xabi had just won the La Liga from the grasp of Barca.


QUOTE(digilife @ May 20 2012, 04:02 AM)
Robben and Ribery is so good, we should buy any one of them.........
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Why would they join a non-CL team cry.gif

This post has been edited by Cloud0890: May 20 2012, 04:10 AM
hfi
post May 20 2012, 04:14 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 04:06 AM)
Like I said a tactical genius who implements not attractive but effective football.
Why would they join a non-CL team  cry.gif
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Attractive is subjective. People find Rafa's football boring but some people don't. There's a beauty in which his team sets out to compress superior teams to the point they look toothless and ineffective. Some people want to see silky smooth football and i get that but it's not necessarily better. Arsenal plays lovely football but what have they won the past 7 years ?

It's worth pointing out that he normally compose his teams based on the players that he has. His Valencia team played differently to ours. And ours played different to his Inter's. You give Rafa 10 unique teams and players, and i guarantee you none of those teams will behave the same way on the pitch.
Cloud0890
post May 20 2012, 04:23 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ May 20 2012, 04:14 AM)
Attractive is subjective. People find Rafa's football boring but some people don't. There's a beauty in which his team sets out to compress superior teams to the point they look toothless and ineffective. Some people want to see silky smooth football and i get that but it's not necessarily better. Arsenal plays lovely football but what have they won the past 7 years ? 

It's worth pointing out that he normally compose his teams based on the players that he has. His Valencia team played differently to ours. And ours played different to his Inter's. You give Rafa 10 unique teams and players, and i guarantee you none of those teams will behave the same way on the pitch.
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And yet they still end up with a 3rd place finish after a disastrous start to the season and still consistently competing for top 4. Doesn't really matter anyway, rumours have it Rafa isn't anywhere near the top of FSG's wanted list.

oh oh oh ze germansssss notworthy.gif mullerrrrrrr

This post has been edited by Cloud0890: May 20 2012, 04:26 AM
hfi
post May 20 2012, 04:29 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 04:23 AM)
And yet they still end up with a 3rd place finish after a disastrous start to the season and still consistently competing for top 4. Doesn't really matter anyway, rumours have it Rafa isn't anywhere near the top of FSG's wanted list.

oh oh oh ze germansssss  notworthy.gif mullerrrrrrr
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I don't really care if we don;t end up with Rafa. Like i said several times on this thread there are better alternatives. I just find it strange some people are still misinformed and confused about Rafa until today. Hopefully one day he gets to clear the air once and for all.
Cloud0890
post May 20 2012, 04:40 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ May 20 2012, 04:29 AM)
I don't really care if we don;t end up with Rafa. Like i said several times on this thread there are better alternatives. I just find it strange some people are still misinformed and confused about Rafa until today. Hopefully one day he gets to clear the air once and for all.
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So I guess you agree with Rafa's decision of replacing Alonso with Barry which I think is his biggest mistake with us. Went from 2nd place to 7th place the following season after Xabi's departure. That's the only complaint I have for Rafa.
Burningsunz
post May 20 2012, 04:42 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 04:40 AM)
So I guess you agree with Rafa's decision of replacing Alonso with Barry which I think is his biggest mistake with us. Went from 2nd place to 7th place the following season after Xabi's departure. That's the only complaint I have for Rafa.
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xabi alone cant cost us from 2nd to 7th, u got to think what about those players rafa wanted to bring in but there's no fund? we will never know what happen behind the club because im sure rafa is under pressure as well because the owner wanna get rid of him and he got to find a way to safeguard his position
digilife
post May 20 2012, 04:42 AM

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Torres, in a way is worth 50Mil to Chelsea now...........
Burningsunz
post May 20 2012, 04:44 AM

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QUOTE(digilife @ May 20 2012, 04:42 AM)
Torres, in a way is worth 50Mil to Chelsea now...........
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if only he score then he is worth 50mil

Cloud0890
post May 20 2012, 04:46 AM

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oh wow drogba hero to zero?


Added on May 20, 2012, 4:47 amnot! LOL cech the hero!

This post has been edited by Cloud0890: May 20 2012, 04:47 AM
Burningsunz
post May 20 2012, 04:47 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 04:46 AM)
oh wow drogba hero to zero?


Added on May 20, 2012, 4:47 amnot! LOL cech the hero!
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the problem with robben is he is abit selfish, even the commentator agree to that..

hfi
post May 20 2012, 04:49 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ May 20 2012, 04:40 AM)
So I guess you agree with Rafa's decision of replacing Alonso with Barry which I think is his biggest mistake with us. Went from 2nd place to 7th place the following season after Xabi's departure. That's the only complaint I have for Rafa.
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I thought he wanted both players to be honest. He said a few times his plan was to play Barry on the left. That doesn;t sound like a replacement but an addition to the squad. But i won't deny that losing Xabi did disrupt us. Tho i reckon we would be better off had Barry came to us instead of City - considering how dross our midfield has been this season.

PS: I think Chelsea might just nick this one. I'm getting that dejavu feeling.

This post has been edited by hfi: May 20 2012, 04:53 AM
Cloud0890
post May 20 2012, 04:53 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ May 20 2012, 04:49 AM)
I thought he wanted both players to be honest. He said a few times his plan was to play Barry on the left. That doesn;t sound like a replacement but an addition to the squad. But i won't deny that losing Xabi did disrupt us. Tho i reckon we would be better off had Barry came to us instead of City - considering how dross our midfield has been this season.
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I guess in a way it was H&G's fault because Rafa actually planned to sell Alonso to fund for Barry during the January window that led to Xabi wanting out at the end of the season.


Added on May 20, 2012, 4:55 am
QUOTE(hfi @ May 20 2012, 04:49 AM)
PS: I think Chelsea might just nick this one. I'm getting that dejavu feeling.
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I want Bayern to win though, injustice to Spurs if Chelsea wins and I love watching Abramovich's sad face tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Cloud0890: May 20 2012, 04:55 AM
carloz28
post May 20 2012, 05:00 AM

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Football is that cruel sometimes. Bayern is owning Chelsea from the first minute and raining shots on their goalmouth and then Drogba gets the equalizing goal in their only 2nd or 3rd attempt on goal.

Yes you are right. Injustice of the highest order but that is what makes football exciting to watch.

I'll switch off my telly for one week if Chelsea wins this.
SuperDuperFaith
post May 20 2012, 05:00 AM

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@cloud

How is it injustice to spurs? Lol it makes no sense, you have to give credit to chelsea terrific run in the champs league. They made it to champions league final, overcomed barca.

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