Still think we actually came off better from that deal.

Torres was a depreciating asset with injuries and all and the important part was, he didn't give a damn about the club when things were not going his way especially when the fans and club needed him the most.

You don't really want a player like that at the club. And quite possibly, everyone has seen the best of Fernando Torres (when he was at Anfield).

Same.

The stats do not lie. We've won the last 9 games he has started and not won the last 9 he hasn't started.

His presence takes defenders off Suarez and Gerrard and the defenders themselves have something to think about with Carroll.

I'd like Suso and Sterling to play at one point!

Not me

Always knew Lucas would make it. You aren't Brazillian Young Player of the Year and captain of the u-20 Brazillian team for nothing

Majority of Liverpool fans are probably the older generation who don't use Facebook or don't know how to use it if they do but well, those are just numbers, it doesn't mean anything, IMO.

Like I said, it's easy to support a winning team but for youngsters like me to support a team that hasn't won a league title in 20+ years, is character. So in truth, this is what being a fan of a football club is all about. You support the club no matter what happens and go through thick and think.

I wonder how many of those millions of fans who like MU, Arsenal and Chelsea have actually seen their club go as low as we have.


But to be honest, though, the price is irrelevant.

And if you ask me, I don't think Henderson and Carroll have been THAT bad. Yes, they could do with more goals but they aren't exactly shit like Poulsen or Konchesky were. Both are young as well and we forget they are just 22 and 23 years old this year. Henderson has shown glimpses of his abilities but he needs to be more adventurous and stamp his authority. Right now, he looks like he just prefers to give the job to a more experienced player like Gerrard or someone but that's entirely understandable.

As for Adam, I think he did his job in terms of getting assists and scoring a handful of goals but he's not exactly the standard of a player you want playing week in, week out for a team with title aspirations. We need a quality right winger, striker who can score and a creative midfielder like David Silva in the summer.

But you're right, regardless, we have to stand by the manager and the players.

f***ing typical.

So far playing relatively better and mustered about four shots at goal and opposition creates that ONE good chance and takes the lead.

Apart from his dive and occassional falls, I think Carroll is playing well and man, now clearing off the line with your arm is okay

Referee thinking it's Christmas. Giving out so many cards.

Yeah. Ever since Carragher came back to partner him, Skrtel has been having a nightmare.

I think alot of the slump came from the loss of Lucas and Agger. Suarez missing 9 games doesn't help either. I mean, by March everything was in a mess.

One thing I'm quite worried of is the fact that we've only won one game in the last 10 matches Steven Gerrard has started.

Chasing down the balls from all corners is one thing but it's the mentality and hunger to win we've been lacking.

Well, the aritlce was posted on LFCReds and he what one of the more sensible poster had to say :

Can't argue with him there. I agree. I mean, even if we were doing well, they'd probably want a review from the top people in the club anyway since it is a business.

Yeah I agree. I think our poor form in the league started from the loss of Lucas. Having Gerrard already injured majority of the campaign, we were not helped by Suarez's 9 game ban and Agger's injury.

But yea, the defence has been shipping goals in from everywhere ever since Agger went off against Cardiff.

No one is doubting that 6 out of 7 defeats or sitting 19th in the table for 2012 is disastrous but alot of people tend to forget the situation we were in about 1.5 to 2 years ago. We've been ran down by Dumb and Dumber. We've lost the best manager the club has had in the past 20 years prior. We were brought rock bottom under the guidance of Roy Hodgson. Kenny Dalglish had a huge task of turning everything around and to ask for a league title or even a challenge is a little bit, honestly, unrealistic.

This is hurting Kenny Dalglish more than you and I can ever imagine and I'm pretty sure of that. While the man is a legend of the club, yeah, he isn't immune to criticism but the least we could do is believe in him or at least give him another season after all he has done for the club.

6 losses in 7 games is terrible. That's relegation form but out of those six defeats, we probably should have beaten Arsenal and QPR. We weren't terrible in the first half when we went 1-0 down to Newcastle but it was the same typical outcome, we had more shots but no goals and opposition gets one good chance and they take the lead. Let's say if Carroll had scored after beating Krul and we got a penalty for Simpson's deliberate handball clearance off the line, we'd be 2-0 up instead of 1-0 down by half time and a different outcome may have resulted. In that 7 games, included was a defeat to the league leaders. So, alot of ifs and buts, it could have easily been 5 wins and 2 defeats rather than 6 defeats in 7.

Point i'm trying to make is, we didn't play shit every game, like we did under Roy. We had good games in the first half of the season, but not the result. In 2012, there were games we had done well enough to win. I say 'well enough' means we could have won. Stoke City and Spurs should have lost.

The ultimate aim is to win trophies and play in Europe. We've won the League Cup. Check. We've qualified for Europe. Check. And we're in the semi-finals of the FA Cup.

At this moment, I would take a cup or two over a 4th place finish. If it's in our capacity to win everything, by all means, we go for it. I'd always take a trophy over a 4th place finish but only when we are out of the race and I am not suggesting we screw the league every season just to win the League Cup or FA Cup. Yes, they are the 3rd and 4th priorities for "big" teams but it's a start considering the hell Liverpool FC had gone through. Anyone who thinks finishing 4th place and no trophies is an achievement needs their heads checked. Everton finished fourth in 2004/2005 only to get battered in the qualifying rounds and not make it. It is not an achievement to finish 4th but a season can still be considered successful when you've won a trophy.

Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League every season in the last 10 years but they've won nothing in the last 7 years. When you think of Arsenal, do you think of 'Arsenal, the team that qualifies for Champions League every year!". No, I always think of 'Arsenal, the team that has not won a trophy for 7 years".

People can go on about us not being in the Champions League but one thing as it stands at the moment, there is a possibility one Manchester club and three London clubs go trophyless this season and the same can't be said about us.

I want Barcelona to win Champions League ^^

I'm a Barca glory hunter LMAO! But of course, I want Liverpool to win whenever Liverpool play Barcelona.

I understand the financial benefits you get from Champions League qualifications and the potential to attract players and all. Yes, I want Champions League football as much as you do because a club like Liverpool should not be out of the Champions League for 3/4 seasons. It's also good in terms of keeping the reputation and all.

I never said I want us to win the League Cup or FA Cup every season and forgo the Champions League or whatever.

I'm just saying 4th place with no trophies has never been and will never be an "achievement" for Liverpool. Liverpool exists to win trophies and we have done that this season with the League Cup and with a chance to win the FA Cup.

The point is, we aren't going to get top four this season so there's no point talking about it on and on. When it's in our capacity to get it, i.e. next season, then we go for it. The same it will be next season and the seasons after.

Second rate cup competitions? Yeah but a trophy is a trophy and just like you, I would prefer to win the League or Champions League over those two any day but you don't want to be finishing 4th and not win a trophy every season, do you? Even so, 4th place does not guarantee you a Champions League place in the group stage. You'd still have tricky ties in the qualifying round.

I say it again, Liverpool exists to win trophies and if anyone thinks qualifying for the UCL every seaosn without winning trophies is "successful", well, damn me.

I'm all for Champions League football and League titles but Man City took about 3-4 seasons to even qualify for the Champions League. Even though it was a realistic target at the start of the seaosn, it is still probably a tough call for Kenny to do it considering how much money City have spent since 2008, let alone win the league.

And this was said last season but maybe and just maybe, it's a blessing in disguise to be out of it - again.

I agree. Carragher has been more of a liability nowadays. I just wish Daniel Agger would stay fit for a whole season. It breaks my heart to see some fans saying we should sell him because he can't stay fit and is always injured for about half a season, every season. I love Dagger alot and I just wish he will stop being a glass.

Enrique started out well but this year, he has kinda been sleeping alot. I have no idea why!

Good post.

You need stability in the club from the owners to manager's position. Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger have proven. Imagine what it would be like if United had sacked Ferguson in 1988 who won nothing in his first 3 years? We would still be on our perch!

It is easy to look at it that way but remember we lost to the league leaders in that sequence. We also lost to QPR and Arsenal which we didn't deserve to and we could have been 2-0 up against Newcastle, rather than 1-0 down at half time.

It would then be 4 wins and 3 losses in the last 7 games, instead of 6 losses in 7.

I know nothing changes the fact we lost but we can take the positives (good enough to win performances). It wasn't like we played shit in all the games.

I would still take King Kenny because he would have won the FA Cup and the League Cup by the end of the season (assuming, like you said, we win the FA Cup).

Avram Grant finished second in the league, FA Cup and Champions League but no one remembers who finishes second. And he got fired.

Future looks bright.

I thought we were going to be the English Barcelona but nope ... Barcelona is actually the Spanish Liverpool XD

Good posts, Duke_Red.

Agree completely.

I think one thing NESV are trying to do here is to built a foundation for the future while also looking partially at the immediate future. Trust me, you don't really want just an immediate future because by the time those players you bought for the instant success reach their end, it goes horribly wrong all over again.

The investments in Henderson, Coates and Carroll are for the future. They all can play for another 10 years. Adam and Downing were bought for their "experience" playing in top flight football. But it doesn't prove that NESV only will buy players below a certain age, they will be willing to spend money on players who they feel can do a job at that moment like Bellamy (I know he was free!).

I know it hurts to see the club in this position but the work done by Rafa and Kenny will bring out the results, hopefully. Rafa revamped the youth setup and if I'm not wrong, he was the one who brought in Rodolfo Borrell (who worked as Barcelona's youth coach, nurturing Cesc Fabregas and Lionel Messi). He's been doing a decent job here at the moment, IMO.

Suso and Sterling are probably the stand out performers for him with Coady and Wisdom not far behind. Jack Robinson was heavily involved last season as well and in recent seasons, we've seen Jon Flanagan, Martin Kelly and Jay Spearing make their breakthroughs.

And at least, they are more likely to get their chances, unlike Krisztian Nemeth and Dani Pacheco.

The Barcelona youth setup was revamped about 20+ years ago and now you're seeing the results. It took awhile but Lionel Messi, Cesc Fabregas, Mikel Arteta, Pepe Reina, Victor Valdes, Gerard Pique, Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, Carles Puyol and maybe even Pedro, Thiago Alcantara and Christian Tello are benefiting from that.

--------------------------------

Oh and by the way, Man City proves that money isn't everything.

---

Added on April 6, 2012, 7:58 pmDagger back in training and Kenny says he's close to return (closer than Martin Kelly and Glen Johnson at least)



Daniel is a boss. Can't wait to see him back. So happy to have his name on my shirt!

This post has been edited by Adryan: Apr 6 2012, 07:58 PM

Probably because he's 32 years old this year and he can be frustrating at times XD but I love the man.

It's no doubt he's a hardworking duracell bunny and scores vital goals but IMO, his baby elephant touches and poor decision making sometimes makes me facepalm!

Hope we can win tomorrow. I'm actually going up to Anfield tomorrow to watch it.

This post has been edited by Adryan: Apr 7 2012, 06:33 AM

Well, you can't blame manager for that, can you?

Yeah, he wants to play pass and move like during his first stint where we won tons of trophies but I don't think he says to Gerrard "listen, I don't want you to shoot from 25 yards, I want you to go closer into the box and then pass it to Suarez" or "Bellers, when you get to the byline, instead of cutting back a low pass to Suarez, maybe you can cross the ball to the far post, or even better, out!".

On the pitch, the players make the decisions and unfortunately, alot of them has been wrong.

Then give him a chance to make the changes in the summer.

He won titles with British players for Liverpool and Blackburn Rovers. I don't think he made a HUGE mistake buying English players last summer but it probably was not the right decision. And to be honest, he's actually only bought Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Bellamy and Downing. He's also signed foreigners like Enrique, Suarez and Coates.

It's not because English players are arrogant and gamblers... come on now, Stevie and Carra are not gamblers. It's not fair to say English players can't do it as majority of our 'legends' are British players - Rush, Keegan, Aldridge, Barnes, Beardsley, Hansen and even Kenny himself. It's just that, the quality of English players has dropped alot and IMO, the only qualities left are Gerrard (but fast declining), Wilshere, Hart and Rooney but then again, none are exactly as good as the foreign counterparts.

It's easy to say 'sign Aguero for 35 million' but would he come mid-season to a club which only played in the Europa League? I don't think so.

Give Kenny a season to change things. Man City needed FOUR seasons to qualify for the Champions League even though they spend probably 5 times more than Kenny has.

The team was playing well till the turn of the year but the only missing piece was a goalscorer.

This post has been edited by Adryan: Apr 7 2012, 03:44 PM

But Kenny lost Torres, Mascherano, Alonso, Arbeloa, Benayoun - five players who played a huge role in the second place finish. But we hit rock bottom after that second place finish so you can also say we kinda had to build from scratch from owners to manager.


Barry, Santa Cruz, Tevez, Lescott and Adebayor came in summer 2009. Two years after they first started spending money.

Before that,

Wayne Bridge (undisclosed, Chelsea)
Craig Bellamy (£14m, West Ham)
Nigel de Jong (£17m, Hamburg SV)
Shay Given (£6m, Newcastle)
Jo (£19m, CSKA Moscow)
Tal Ben Haim (£5m, Chelsea)
Vincent Kompany (£6m, Hamburg)
Shaun Wright-Phillips (£10m, Chelsea)
Pablo Zabaleta (£6.45m, Espanyol)
Glauber Berti (loan, Nurnberg)
Robinho (£32.5m, Real Madrid)
Nery Castillo (loan, Shaktar Donetsk)
Felipe Caicedo (£5m, FC Basel)
Geovanni (Cruzeiro, free)
Rolando Bianchi (Regina, 8.8m)
Gelson Fernandes (FC Sion, undisclosed)
Martin Petrov (Atletico Madrid, £4.7m)
Javier Garrido (Real Sociedad, £1.5m)
Vedran Corluka (Dinamo Zagreb, undisclosed)
Elano (Shakhtar Donetsk, £8m)
Valeri Bojinov (Fiorentina, undisclosed)

That's about 144 million without adding the four "undisclosed" fees.

I'm aware thats by two different managers (Erikson and Hughes) but it shows that they only achieved their 'target' (UCL and title charge) after giving Mancini two years to spend his money.

Took this today just before kick off



This post has been edited by Adryan: Apr 8 2012, 07:44 AM

But our owners do not have the resources like Man City do to spend alot of money for trials and errors. How many players Man City signed back in 2008 are actually still there? None or not many, if any. They replace their players almost every season. You don't really want to be doing that either but the question is, why is Kenny Dalglish simply getting more criticism than other managers?

Yeah, maybe Kenny made the wrong signings and hopefully, he has learnt that and will make the changes. No manager will get their signings spot on, especially on the first try. He thought they would do the job but they have massively disappointed him, IMO.

Is it not?

At this stage last season, we didn't have a Carling Cup in the cabinet, we didn't have an FA cup semi final to play and we didn't have a European spot. The league is terrible but this season can still be considered a successful season.

I can't believe the amout of fans calling for KK to go.

We didn't win yesterday but we probably did enough to scrapped a win. Just like we did against QPR, Arsenal, Tottenham, Stoke City, Manchester United, Manchester City, Swansea, Norwich and so on. Aston Villa scored from probably their only shot on target while we had good chances to score and win the game.

Was it Kenny's fault Kuyt missed an open goal? Was it Kenny's fault Flanagan failed to control the ball Shelvey headed to him that led to Villa's opener? Was it Kenny's fault Suarez got a yellow card for 'diving'? Oh wait .. maybe it's Kenny's fault Suarez decided to head the ball to Friedel. Maybe also Kenny's fault Enrique decided to cross the ball out.. Yeah, also Kenny's fault we hit the woodwork like 30 plus times this season (that's a post/bar a game) .. Oh wait, maybe it's Kenny's fault for global warming also.

The only problem with Kenny is, he puts too much faith in the players who have time and time again let him down big time. Maybe he didn't make the right signings at all but we were playing pretty well in the first half of the season, weren't we? We just didn't have a goalscorer to put the goals in and that has been our downfall this season. He should have brought in a striker be it on loan or not in January but I guess not many targets were available.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with his tactics or whatever because in all of games, we actually did a little better than the opposition to have won but how many times have we got more shots on goal but opponents have way less shots but won the game? Kenny will get tactics and selection wrong, just as every other manager but there's nothing much he can do because he's lost Gerrard, Agger, Lucas, Adam and Suarez off an on this season.

Maybe we should sell Gerrard, Carragher, Henderson, Downing, Carroll and Adam in the summer and start afresh by bringing in Larrson, Collins, Cattermole, Jarvis, Heskey and Ireland since they are better than our players.

We must have been cursed to see Benitez, Hodgson and Kenny doing the same shit over and over again - persisting with underperforming players or making late substitutions because everything is just unexplaniable with this club.