This is getting ridiculous.

Two wins, two draws and SEVEN defeats from 11 games in 2012.

The squad is definitely not good enough. They lack that mentality and hunger to even want to get anything out of a football game. I'd play Shelvey, Sterling and alot of other youngsters now because they actually do much better than the majority of the shit we put out and especially since our players are 'tired'.

While Kenny does make questionable substitutions and starting eleven choices, I have no doubt that I believe he is still the man to lead the Reds. I've seen enough of him and know enough about him, that he can make things happen for this club.

You can't blame Kenny Dalglish when our strikers don't score or we can't defend a simple ball.

I'm aware maybe he hasn't signed the right players but he's only human and humans make mistakes. He isn't stupid and he'll rectify this mistake in the summer if he believes it is right.

Kenny Dalglish isn't the problem. The problem is the overpaid British prima donnas who have let him down big time.

One of his biggest mistake this season is not bringing in a striker who can score goals in January and that has cost us even a remote chance of getting a top four slot. Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez are not going to score 20 goals each.

It may not be that simple but at least Suarez would also have someone to finish off his moves, especially since we all know how poor we have been in front of goal in the first half of the league season.

I agree Suarez scored alot of goals for Ajax, Nacional, Groningen and Uruguay and not alot when he's here but he has probably still played a role in majority of our goals not scored by him. I can't answer why his goalscoring is poor here but .... I don't know whether it is down to bad luck or not as he has hit the woodwork ALOT of times this season alone as well.

Also, for example, Torres himself wasn't as prolific in Spain as when he was with us. He only managed 91 goals in 243 Atletico games and that's just below 1 goal in 3 games but he was at arond just above one goal in 1.5 games with us. Only 1 goal per 7.7 games with Chelsea and above 3 games for one goal in Spain.

I know he's not our player anymore but it highlights the fact just because a player was good somewhere else, doesn't mean he will be as good at another place.

And why Suarez is struggling to score, as I've said above, I don't know but .. that is not our only problem! Why do we always lose to the bottom 5-6 teams but play well against the top 5-6 teams ... Why can't we just be a normal football team like others!!! I just don't understand.

It feels as though we've been cursed because regardless who the owners are, the manager is or the players are, we just seem the same Liverpool every season XD

By the way .. this is interesting..

Liverpool results in last 7 Andy Carroll starts - WWDWWWW.

Last 9 without him starting - DDDLLLLLL

This post has been edited by Adryan: Mar 25 2012, 06:59 AM

Here comes the pathetic sod!

First of all, Liverpool have got Gerrard and Lucas injured majority of the season. Suarez was banned for 9 matches. Any club would miss players of these quality terribly.

Adam has always played since the start. Started out well but the last few months been shaky and shouldn't have been given starts but what choice does Kenny have ... Gerrard and Lucas out, Spearing the only one who himself got banned for 3 matches as well. Shelvey is still young and it isn't easy to just say 'throw the kid out'. Henderson has been out of position all the time. Versatile. Hasn't done alot of wrong but hasn't exactly contributed alot as well. Shouldn't be a right midfielder but no idea why he hasn't played centre but I understand that because he's can play right to accommodate Adam and Spearing.

So where's the article that says he said Liverpool is one of the fittest team? Surely he'll come up with an excuse when we lose because we didn't exactly play badly. You don't want to get into trouble talking about referee and certainly you don't want to be criticising your players in public.


So, Liverpool is closer to Wolves than to United ..

I wonder what you though when your Manchester United was closer to the bottom most team in the league in 1986/1987, 1988/1989 and 1989/1990.


Nice of you to call him King Kenny rather than KD. Nice to see you know alot about Liverpool as well in regards to what Kenny said.

Stop being obsessed with Liverpool FC, you pathetic Manc.

I never said anything about keepers having a blinder. Yeah, I think money plays a big part in football now. Liverpool are a team in transition and your point is?

Take a break and look at the facts properly. Liverpool spent 100 million last season but unfortunately for them, they are spending and competiting in an era where Man United, Man City and Chelsea are also spending.

Take a look at your United ...

Juan Veron £28,100,000
Ruud Van Nistelrooy £19,000,000
Rio Ferdinand £27,550,000
Cristiano Ronaldo £12,200,000 (for a teenager)
Wayne Rooney £27,000,000
Michael Carrick £18,600,000
Anderson £15,000,000
Owen Hargreaves £17,000,000
Nani €25.5 million
Demitar Berbatov £30,750,000

I excluded Antonio Valencia (£16,000,000), Phil Jones (£17,000,000), David De Gea £(18,900,000), Ashley Young (£17,000,000) because they came after Ronaldo left for 80 million. Point is, your club has been spending way more money than anyone since 2001 so obviously your team is more settled by the time year 2008 came.

If you're thinking Liverpool can compete with just 100 million spend (and thats 50 million coming from Torres), you must be deluded. United spent over 200 million pounds on the players above without selling anyone (before Ronaldo's depature).

So what the hell are you going on about the "racial abuse" and one finger salute? First of all, there is still no concrete evidence that Suarez racially abused him, it was just that liar Evra's word against Suarez and the FA believed Evra (no surprises there) and one finger salute .. stop being a baby. I'm sure you do it in real like and Suarez isn't the first to have done and and certainly isn't the last. Rooney did it but escape any punishment. Gary Neville did it and also escape punishment. Once again, no surprises there as well.

Definition of playing badly is when the team doesn't turn up. I didn't watch the game last night but Liverpool had more possession and more shots. Stats can be misleading but they do tell a story as well. Definition of playing badly is example, Bolton beating Liverpool, Sunderland 1-0 Liverpool, Spurs 4-0 Liverpool. Liverpool played well enough against QPR to win the game but somehow some shit just happened in the last 13 minutes. Obviously losing at home (in fact, not winning at home at all is a bad result) but we are talking about "playing" i.e. performance, not result.

Now, move along, you Liverpool-obsessed, Manc.

Fair enough about the tactics. I never personally felt that KD gets all his tactics right (he's human afterall) but in the last 14 months, I've seen enough and I know enough of him that he should be given more than just one season. I understand the league season is a disaster and there's no doubt about it but as I've said many times before, we've not got more points than we actually deserved. I know football is not about 'deserve or not' but the majority of the performances, especially in the first half, shown that we can play and we are NOT THAT bad. It's just that we lack goals and that has cost us.

Agree. The manager makes the choice of buying a player, setting up the formation, telling the tactics and all but at the end of the day the players go out on the pitch to play, not the manager. I highly doubt KD actually tells the team "Downing, you put a cross in and Suarez, I only want you in the box while the rest of you wait outside". I'm sure he doesn't say that.

When it comes to good positions in the game, it's up to the player to decide how he wants to shoot the ball, how he wants to pass, where he wants to put it and stuff. KD definitely doesn't say 'Look Suarez, please hit the woodwork twice today'.

I agree that the league is unacceptable at the moment especially since the turn of the year. In fact, there's a possibility that this season may end up even worse than last season but King Kenny, as the Anfield faithful call him, has won trophies, titles, doubles as a player and as a manager. He's probably the most Liverpool-like person we have at the moment and he deserves the support of the fans and to give him time.

Remember, after the 2009/2010 season, many fans called for Rafa Benitez's head and look what we got? Roy Hodgson who brought very average players like Konchesy and Poulsen to the squad, insulted the fans and players in public, set us up to play eye hurting football and brought the club down to one of the lowest positions in my life as a fan. The league form under Kenny is FAR from ideal but there's a difference between last saeson and this season - we've got the League cup in the bag, we're in the FA Cup semi final and we've qualfieid for Europe.

I wouldn't want Rafa's medical team Gerrard and Torres were way injured too often under them!!! And Torres is injury free at Chelsea!

I tell you what, though, if Rafa wasn't working under H and G, we would have won at least two league titles. We were probably a couple of players away after 2008/2009 but the damage that Hicks and Gillett did were done back in 2007.

Rafa may have his flaws. He's terrible in man management but he's a mastermind tactician. Made us number one in Europe as well and understood the club for what it stood for.

Love the man.

And earlier today, I posted a stat about Carroll.

Liverpool results in last 7 Andy Carroll starts - WWDWWWW.

Last 9 without him starting - DDDLLLLLL

This tells alot.

Now, everyone has been criticisng Carroll. Fair enough, he should be scoring more goals but the stats show his contribution to the team, indirectly.

Whenever we play without him, it's easy for opponents to neutralise Suarez and we are done for. Suarez can not play as a lone striker in a 4-5-1. He's more of a creator and he should be playing in the hole, where Gerrard would usually play when Torres was here.

Throw Andy into the starting 11, yes, we'll see more hoofballs, more clumsy touches and him falling all the time ... but he will drag a defender or two with him, giving space to the other players. No surprise we have actually not lost a game when he's in the side.

He could and should be contributing more but for the good of the team, if we have to play him, so be it.

Yes, I don't understand that as well considering Maxi probably has a better goal conversion rate than all our strikers put together!

I don't know why KD has massively underused some players but I guess he has his reasons be it tactical change or whatsoever but he hopefully he has rectified his mistakes or at least quickly rectify it because he seems to be putting the same shit out there!

Alright. Liverpool spent more in terms of amount spent since 1992. So I got that wrong.

552 million from Kenny Dalglish, Rafa Benitez, Gerard Houlier, Roy Evans + Gerard Houlier, Grame Souness and Roy Hodgson.
483 million from Alex Ferguson.

If you ask me, looks like Liverpool average 79 million per manager while United averages 483 million a manager in that same time frame.

But you cannot look at comparison like that because your manager has been in charge for 27 years (hence low average of 8 million) while Liverpool had changed managers 8 times since Ferguson took over.

As you know, everytime a new manager comes in, he has the player he wants to bring in and the players he doesn't want so yeah, that is why Liverpool have had to spend more because they switched managers 8 times.

Man United doesn't have to because by the time Kenny Dalglish returned or when Rafa even came, United have got majority of the players in the squad, settled. Obviously Rafa will spend more than Ferguson in the number of years he was there. Obviously Kenny will spend more than Ferguson in the last 14 months.

And your point about the list of titles won?

Obviously they have won more because the club is in stable position with a manager working for almost 3 decades there. Gerrard isn't going to win any titles if Liverpool keep switching managers.

It took Ferguson like what? 7 years to win his first title?

I really like how you reply to post, then cut out majority from the previous post and only talk about things that suits you.

How can it be a contraction when 'concrete evidence' was about no proof of Suarez racially abusing him and the other part is about Evra being a liar?

It's only a contradiction if I had said there was no concrete evidence and relate the second part to Suarez.

Yeah, KK escaped punishment but wait .. Liverpool isn't the only club to avoid punishments.

Wayne Rooney and Gary Neville escaped punishment for inappropriate hand gestures. Ferguson has escaped punishment for commenting on Germans and Uruguayans (probably) and that shit about refusing to speak to BBC and walking out from interviews, telling secretary to ban reporter ... I guess that's all okay, right?

Emanuel Frimpong escaped one finger salute. Ashley Cole escape two finger salute. Why don't you go spend some more time in the Chelsea and Arsenal threads?

Now saying what I've said to you, eh?

Well, I did admit I was wrong in calculating the sum because I never took into account the 1992 to 2000 years and I only included the fees that were bigger than 10 million and unreasonable at that time.

I did say Liverpool spent more than United in the Premier League season after that (and again, I admit I was wrong) but weird, you chose to ignore the reasoning and want to compare what seven men (who were obviously going to spend more in 20 years) then what one man did.

I guess we can come to a conclusion that it is indeed a "fact" that Liverpool spent more than United in 20 years but Man United spent more per manager.

Any fans are welcomed to join. Constructive criticisim is appreciated and all but for United fans to come to a Liverpool thread to wind up the Kopites who are already having a difficult time, is frankly, uncalled for.

Maybe Kenny didn't handled it correct but when Ferguson himself have not been an angel either, why go on harping about Kenny not up to date and all that. Take a look at your manager first.

I don't understand why United fans would prefer to spend their time on a Liverpool thread.

Same here. I enjoy some good banter with my Man United friends but the Man United fans online are just ... around to wind people.

I still can't understand why they would pay more attention to Liverpool than to their team.

The only time I actually entered the Man United thread was to say RIP to the Busby Babes ...


He's also part of the reason.

The problem with them is ... I actually understand that the older United fans are probably better. The lot that come in here are probably immature 15-25 year olds who grew up in the 1990s when Man United were dominant. They don't know what it feels like to be a "proper" and "true" fan who have followed the club in times of down, something the older United fans who would have gone through back in the 1980s seeing Liverpool dominate and United nowhere near.

It is easy to support a winning team but supporting a team like Liverpool who are looking to be the 'fallen giants' shows character.

This one example of a fan who never grew up in the the times Man United were not the biggest team in the world.

Alot of Liverpool fans have seen the 1970-1980s Liverpool team which were so dominant and they know how much it hurts to see the club in the current state.

You probably grew up in the 21st century and all you see is Man United winning. I wonder if you would have said the same about accepting your 'best' Man United team in the world as a midtable team when you were living in the 1980s when United finished like 11th, 2nd, 13th, 11th, 6th and only winning one cup in that five years.

Finally, one who speaks sense.

Like I said earlier, the older United fans are more respectful because they probably have been in the situation Liverpool are currently in (not winning titles and being made as a midtable side) and that the trolls are probably teenagers who grew up in the 1990s, and whom probably don't know anything about United's history. I onced asked a Manc when was Man United formed and he was like 'I don't care abourtdates like that'. Heck, I even won a prize at a Liverpool-United game when they had a quiz during half time and the question was 'What was Man United's original name?' (Newton Heath) and none of them knew. That my friend, defines glory hunters.

It's also certain there are Liverpool fans like that, who love trolling at other team's threads/forums but it's just that, in my personal opinion, United 'fans' do it the most.

I have many United friends and we share good banter and jokes and some of them even joke around saying their best signing is Howard Webb and we just laughed.

Regarding Kenny, whether he is not the right man or not, it is still far too early to call for his head. He's won titles and trophies as a player and manager for Liverpool FC and that shows he can. I know the sport has changed from the last 20 years but Kenny deserves more time, respect and backing.

Many fans wanted Rafa Benitez sacked after we failed to qualify for the Champions League for the first time and look what we got? Roy 'Woy' Hodgson who IMO brought the club to a very, very low point in my time as a fan.

Those calling for Kenny's head need to look at the bigger picture and see how much damage has been done in the past two years. This season, the league form is nowhere near an acceptable level and no one disagrees with that but the difference between Kenny's first full season and the past two years is we've won the League Cup, we're in the semi-finals of the FA Cup and we've qualified for Europe.

It took Ferguson seven years to win his first league title and I think about 3 or 4 years to even win his first cup. Can you imagine if the whole United board or fans had asked for him to be sacked after going one or two seasons without a trophy? You wouldn't have enjoyed seeing 12 more League titles or two Champions League titles added into your collection.

Yes, there's no doubt Man United probably dominated in the last 20 years but Liverpool have got their fair share of glory years as well in the last 1970s to 1980s with four European Cups (3 in 5 years) and alot of league title as well. So, there were probably 'glory hunters' who chose to support Liverpool back then but are now, genuine fans. I mean, it's just a fact because 1990s kids heard more about United the same way 1980s kids heard about Liverpool. They can't be blame, in all honesty.

And, that is why you suddenly see a huge growth in Chelsea fans back in the mid-2000s and in the past couple of years, Man City fans.

Certainly Kenny Dalglish may not have bought the right players but if you actually look at them properly, you can understand his reasons.

Andy Carroll - Youngster with full of potential. Was one of the league's top scorers before he joined Liverpool.
Jordan Henderson - Also full of potential.
Stewart Downing - seasoned Premier League player
Charlie Adam - supposedly set piece specialist

Now, Carroll, Henderson, Adam and Downing all fit into the home grown category which is important for English clubs. (You need 8 at least and four must be HG by club and 4 must be HG by nation). Players below 21 years of age are not included. So you can see why he bought them especially since Carroll was a target man we've missed in awhile with Henderson, Downing and Adam the players who are supposed to provide the ammunition. Unfortunately, none of them are doing what they are supposed to.

I left out Luis Suarez, Craig Bellamy, Seb Coates and Jose Enrique because I can assume most of us have no problems with them as of now.

No manager has bought every player spot on. It's all about taking risks. We've seen evidence where 'seasoned PL' players move to another English team, only to struggle (Torres to Chelsea, Keane to us, Veron to Chelsea are some) and we've seen foreigners, who have never played in the English league, take the league by storm. (Luis Suarez, Fernando Torres and Juan Mata)

Point is, all transfers are risky business. Kenny believed his method in his first stint of the team consisting of British players would again work for him but sadly, it doesn't look like it. British players standards have dropped alot, IMO. You don't see players of the calibre of Ian Rush, Kenny Dalglish, Alan Shearer, Paul Gascoigne anymore. Steven Gerrard is probably the best English player in the last 10-15 years.

As a manager, he picks the starting eleven, makes the substitutions, chooses the tactics and sets up how we play but it stops there. On the pitch, it's the players who play the game. If you ask me, Kenny has put too much trust and loyalty in his players, persisting on playing certain players evne though performing below par and they have let him down HUGE ASS time.

The least Kenny Dalglish deserves is backing, support and trust. Let's hope we can get the best possible end to this season and if he is in charge next season, we give him the summer to make changes.

Even I would like quality players straightaway but come on now, it's Kenny's first season so he has to get players for the near future in terms of fulfilling the homegrown quota and bringing in potential.

And honestly, Carroll and Henderson have not done much wrong. Overpaid, yes. Not enough goals, yes but they are just not contributing enough as of now but certainly nowhere near dreadful as Adam or Poulsen in the past.

You can't blame Kenny Dalglish when Carroll misses a penalty .. when Suarez decides to head the ball to Friedel's hands .. when Suarez decides to kick a low lame shot to the keeper in the early minutes of the game or when Enrique decides to sleep instead of defend, can you?

Yes, I agree that the problem has happened too many times over the past year and you know why? It's because there's so much instability in the club. Houlier had his fair share of flops in Salif Diao, Bruno Cheyrou and El Hadji Diouf to name a few. Then Rafa Benitez took over and he was in the process of rebuilding. He had his flops in Mark Gonzalez, Andriy Voronin and Robbie Keane. But like I've said, everytime a new manager comes in, they need time to build their squad. Then he gets fired and Woy Hodgson comes in to further the damage with flops like Paul Konchesky, Christian Poulsen and Joe Cole. Kenny, once again, need to rebuild the team and yes, maybe he has signed players who aren't good enough but I've seen enough of him and know enough about him to know that he can turn things around. Also let's not forget Rafa and Woy worked under two stupid clowns which in away, failure to give funds have led to the departures of Alonso, Mascherano and dare I say it, Torres.

We are not going to get anywhere if we keep switching managers every season. If Kenny is fired and another manager comes in, he'll want to sign players from where he knows most and then this process will keep going on unless stability is achieved in terms of manager's positions. The reason why Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson hardly get transfers wrong in the last many years is because they both have been in charge for 27 and 16 years respectively and they've probably made their errors at the beginning, only to achieve stability and trust and therefore only needed to add one or two players in comparison to the times we've changed many managers who needed to sign four at least and get rid of alot more.

I agree the British policy has not worked out but let's give Kenny the summer at least so see his next move. If he feels he isn't the man to take Liverpool forward, he'll step down because he feels no different from any of us do and in fact, he may feel even worse than what we feel because he knows he has the responsibility to us.

FSG themselves have not exactly put in alot of money to be honest. Yeah, 50 million is a decent amount but it's no where near what other teams can spend and have spent in the past. Let's not forget that Suarez and Carroll were bought from the money received from Torres so FSG did not exactly fund their purchases.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Paul Tomkins.

Andy Carroll

As noted by people on Twitter, Liverpool’s results in the last seven Carroll starts (after Bolton): WWDWDWW; but the last seven without Carroll starting (after Oldham): DDLLLLL. That’s quite some contrast.

TTT’s senior data analyst Dan Kennett posted some great stats on the eve of the Wigan game in the site’s comments section (which is worth the subscription fee on its own!).

(Even yesterday’s game, though not included, saw Liverpool do better with him on the pitch – ‘drawing’ 1-1 – than the 1-0 ‘defeat’ of the first half.)

Liverpool (All Comps): P40 Win%=50, Points Per Game = 1.78

Carroll starts: P22 W13 D5 L4, Win%=59, Points Per Game = 2.00
Carroll doesn’t start: P18 W7 D6 L5, Win%=39, Points Per Game = 1.50

Food for thought.

This post has been edited by Adryan: Mar 27 2012, 07:48 PM

I said 'not exactly funded the purchases' because the 58 million spent on Carroll and Torres basically came from the sale of Torres and Babel. Not exactly FSG throwing their money like they did for Adam, Downing, Coates and Enrique.

I agree. Even I can't understand but in the past, I would argue that we play much better football WITHOUT Carroll in the side because his style doesn't exactly fit the way Kenny wants us to play but playing good football isn't anything without the points, which we have collected WITH Carroll in the side.

I get where you are coming from and yes, Kenny is not immune to criticism and I don't understand it as well but it's not the first time a Liverpool manager has done this. Rafa time and time again left out players like Benayoun and stuff and it's just unexplainable. Kinda like, makes me feel, regardless who is in charge, they will do the same!!!

And I have to disagree with the last part.

I don't think Kenny wanted cups over a champions league spot. Kenny, being Kenny, I'm sure he wanted us to do well in all competitions but unfortunately for him, the league season is a disaster and the best we can do at the moment is try to win another cup because honestly, the race for fourth for us ended a longgggg time ago.

Spot on. No matter what anyone says, yes, Kenny 'spent' 100 million but that's included selling Meireles and Torres. It's not the same adding 100 million worth of investments while losing two important players for around 60 million and adding 100 million worth of investments alone. And this selling players and buying players has happened far too often with Liverpool under various managers. We aren't going to improve alot if we keep going on. We need stability and that includes the manager's position. Even if we change managers, he'd want to sign his own players and we're back into the same process. We're moving a litlte bit forward under Kenny but probably a little bit backwards in the league but a change of manager is more steps backwards.

One of the problem with generation of fans now, they expect instant results. Yes, Chelsea did it when Abramovich did it with Chelsea , winning back to back League titles in 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 but that was when they were on some crazy spending spree when NO ONE ELSE were spending near them. Man City started their spending spree in 2007/2008 but it took them FOUR seasons to even finish top four and FIVE seasons (this is the 5th) to challenge for the title and they have probably spent over 500 million.

Nothing much to add there but spot on.

Again, spot on. As I've said, I'm not wearing my red-tinted glasses or anything but I've seen enough during his 14-15 months and know enough about the King that he can do a job. I'm not saying he 100% definitely will but he deserves a chance to do so.

1986-87. League 11th. FA Cup 4th Round. League Cup 3rd Round.
1987-88. League 2nd. FA Cup 5th Round. League Cup 5th Round.
1988-89. League 11th. FA Cup 6th Round. League Cup 3rd Round.
1989-90. League 13th. FA Cup Winners. League Cup 3rd Round.
1990-91. League 6th. FA Cup 5th Round. League Cup Runners-up. European Cup Winners' Cup Winners.
1991-92. League 2nd. FA Cup 4th Round. League Cup Winners. European Cup Winners' Cup 2nd Round.
1992-93. League Winners. FA Cup 5th Round. League Cup 3rd Round. Europe UEFA Cup 1st Round.

Above is Alex Ferguson's first seven seasons as manager of Manchester United. I'd like to think that many of us want Liverpool to be as dominant as him, don't we?

It took him FOUR seasons to win his first trophy and it took him SEVEN seasons to win his first league title. Some may and can ever argue that, maybe football was alot more 'easier' then. As it stands at the moment, we've cried for billionaire owners and we got one in October 2010 but unfortunately for them, Liverpool have got to compete with Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur in terms of finance and attracting player power.

Not to mention, it took Man City about 3/4 seasons to even qualify for a Champions League competition and 33 years to win their first trophy. Regarding Chelsea's back to back titles, I've already mentioned it in the past.

On Rafa and Houlier. Take a good look. The club was in a low point back when Graeme Souness was in charge. Before 2010, that remained to be the worst part of Liverpool's illustrious history. We fell into a similar situation under Woy Hodgson. Guess what? It took Evans (one League Cup) from 1994-1998, Evans-Houlier (trophyless) part of 1998, Gerard Houlier (one FA Cup, one UEFA cup, two League Cups) from 1998 to 2004 to rebuild the team. When Rafa Benitez came, the foundation was there in terms of the backbones of the club and owner's position. That is why we were still comparable to United, Arsenal and Chelsea. It took years after Souness' departure to rebuild the club back from being broken and Rafa was doing a good job, winning our 5th European Cup, an FA Cup and made us the number team in Europe. It was going well until H and G's damages finally took its toll in 2010 and when Roy Hodgson replaced him (that was one sonnaferbish decision), we went back so many steps.

Kenny has won his first trophy as manager in the Carling Cup 2012. He's brought us into a semi-final of the FA Cup, with a chance that we can win that one. He also won the double as a player-manager back in 1985/1986.

Kenny Dalglish had to take a club from ZERO confidence, morale, destroyed by Woy Hodgson and future of the club THIS close to administration under the ill-fated guidance of Dumb and Dumber. It was never going to be an easy task and even Rafa Benitez could not do anything. I love Rafa but in his last season, I felt he lost the backing of some of the more senior players of the squad and IMO, alot of fingers can be pointed towards certain players.

Kenny Dalglish, IMO, was the only man who could turn things around. Being a Liverpool legend and that no one understands th club more than he does at the moment, he's the man every player probably looked up to and by right, should.

The transition and process starts within the team, the owner and the fans. Everyone has to fight for the same cause. Then comes the investments and then comes the performances, the results and finally the future. Yeah, the investments have not worked out but Kenny Dalglish has to be given a chance to redeem himself, or at least, a chance to turn it around. For anyone who thought winning a league title in his first full season is a realistc target .. No. I agree that Champions Leauge was a priority but we can't get it, so move on, support the club and root for what is left, i.e. FA Cup.

Winning one trophy (I'll be even happier if we win two) is a start. I would love to be in the Champions League but at this stage, I don't mind a trophy or two over it. I'm not saying we forgo the Champions League spot every season and win the cups but we're not getting Champions League this season. I understand its importance but it is not the end of the world to be out of it.

Granted the league form is a disaster and no one disputes that but to call this an unsuccessful season isn't right as well. As long as Liverpool win a trophy, it's success. If finishing fourth but not win anything is an achievement or is to be considered success, well, f*** me, I don't know what of fans Liverpool's got.

Being out of the Champions League is indeed a disaster but at this stage last season, we don't have another League Cup in our cabinet, we were not in the FA Cup semi-finals (heck we were out of it in January) and we did not qualify for Europe. Even so, finishing top four does not mean we've done enough. We still need to play in the qualifying rounds and truth to be told, it only matters when you win it. We could easily also finish 3rd in the group and play Europa League next season so it is as bad as not finishing fourth.

A football club needs stability, in terms of manager's positions, owners and players. If we're going to keep changing managers, we won't be moving forward because we'll be back to the same stage every single time. Imagine if Man United had sacked Alex Ferguson when he went trophyless for his first three years ... they probably won't have 19 league titles to brag about and probably wouldn't have won another two European Cups. Too many fans nowadays wanting instant success. Think about it, in times like these, it's what being a football fan of a club, is all about.

Rome wasn't built in a day. I agree we were Rome before but we never remained as Rome since Kenny stepped down on that dreadful day in February 1991. If Manchester United took around more than 25 years to win their first title (1992/1993) and last title (1966/1967), our turn is only around the corner. While we may equal or surpass that lame record, it is worth remembering we also won alot of other trophies in the 20 years+ we've gone titleless.

I'd avoid media as well because most of the time, they just want a story and not everything is always true. Potentially, also possible that certain 'fans' come up with agendas. If we keep believing what we read, we don't need to be living in this life. There's a whole lot bigger picture than just believing what we read.

This post has been edited by Adryan: Mar 30 2012, 07:00 AM

Yeah, that was a decent target but it is not happening this season. The main problem in the squad at the end of the day, this season, was the lack of goals. I don't think you can blame Kenny for Kuyt and Suarez missing their penalties or Martin Kelly missing a sitter or Suarez to head to Friedel from 3 yards and so on.

If we had been more clinical in front of goal, especially in the first half of the season at Anfield, we'd certainly have at least 15 points more and we wouldn't be discussing this and maybe the year 2012 form would have been different.


We won't improve if we're always selling players (not the deadwood ones) and buying players after that. We're merely replacing, not improving! I mean, if we were to sell the likes of Carroll, Downing and Adam .. to get Martinez, Lavezzi and Neymar (just examples), we would have lost three and gained 3 only. It's different to just buying Martinez, Lavezzi and Neymar alone (while Adam, Downing and Carroll would make good squad players). And this process of selling and then buying has happened in the last 5 years or so.

Yes, it will be difficult to attract players with the lack of Champions League as well. I know there are players who are willing to come even though there is no Champions League for us but not everyone is like that. Also, I pretty much want players who want to play for us, not just because we offer Champions League.

United's got a poacher in the box who will get the goals in Hernandez - something we lack as well.

But honestly, though our forwards are not exactly firing on all cylinders, the midfielders have to take some of the blame as well. Only three Premier League goals from Henderson, Adam (goals against Wolves and Everton were own goals) and Downing combined. That is not good enough. Even Skrtel alone has probably scored more!!!

Yep, but it doesn't always work out. Robbie Keane claimed he loved watching Liverpool when he was younger but it never worked out for him but the more players we have like Suarez, Bellamy, Lucas or Gerrard, it's only a good thing.

I think Carroll should play against Newcastle. After all, the stats don't like. We've been undeafeated in the last 9 games he has started and we've not won the last 9 games he did not start.

Furthermore, his inclusion gives defenders something to worry about and enables Luis and Stevie to run riot.

I knew you were gonna say about him claiming to be a fan of Celtic as well