Yes having been to their meetings, I know that. The old one under investigation is Genneva Sdn Bhd and the new one is Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd. And i do know that BNM has acknowledged its operation under the new name with the "old package" operating behind.Well this is common knowledge but 'funnily' BNM still allow them to operate, coming to 2 years now! Since they have a Syariah law professor as advisor from BNM on their board and 3 other professors in Genneva panel including one seconded from a bank, BNM should know, they do have their own officers checking on companies like them. My question is, why didn't BNM and ROC strike Genneva off?? I was told that Genneva is also reporting to BNM on a monthly basis. So that is why i couldn't believe all the talk about Genneva being scam (very easy to shut down these kind of companies). These rumours could have come from different quarters who were severely affected by Genneva's operations. They were also investigated for breaking the AMLA act. But investigation is going on but this is not investigation into scam. Todate I was told that BNM could find any misdeeds by Genneva. Many of the postings in Lowyat and else where has mistaken investigation means guilty..... investigation means they are checking for proof. Both the investigation is not for fraud or scam but are for breaking the BAFIA and AMLA act which has nothing to do with SCAM!!!!! So i'm a bit pissed off from people who simply quote others like parrots and also they themselves have such shallow analysis.

Thanks bOOn.

They say the so-called hibah is you pay yourself. Do an inflow and outflow mental calculation, and you know they are so shallow in your thoughts.

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Added on June 25, 2012, 10:32 pmYou are right Cherroy. For that they were investigated under BAFIA ACT. By the way, i found that Genneva is a second schedule business institution following guidelines laid out by BNM. So they have to amend their agreement to exclude that under BAFIA act...buy back guarantee. Under Syariah Law, they can't put that either. Hence the first time they were investigated, it was for this purpose, NOT for scam reasons as many of the comments we keep on hearing people say. The 2nd investigation was about AMLA act, again not for scam investigation. People always like to have scare mongering and show others how well they were informed. That really pissed me cos i was influenced also.

Cheers Cherroy.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: Jun 25 2012, 10:32 PM

Since you are so knowledgeable, find informing all what happened to the investors under the old company?

Btw, am curious on all the "high profile" person you mentioned. Who are the names? I only known of Tun Mahathir endorsing Geneva without even investing himself.

Like I say, 2 years 3 years or whatever - Swiss Cash had been around for more further than that before the whole world taken notice.

Why they are able to be back operational is because they are using the Islamic concept as a loophole to repackage. Btw, do you know a lot of banks although claimed their product is Islamic compliance is not necessary recognized by the middle eastern banks as shariah compliance?

Islamic concept in Malaysia still had a long way to go.
Since Hibah is mentioned, more understanding of Hibah here: http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/financial...s/08_part02.pdf so which contract does it falls under, i.e. the scheme that Geneva offered?

Ok, i have to find that out if there are investors under old company who were "cheated" by that company. Interestingly, I don't hear anything at the ground. However, normally in this kind of sharing, I like to establish my principle abt this - first if i do not do a fact finding research on it, i decline to comment. Simply put, i would ask this to a person, "have you been to their meeting? have been to their office? Do you know what they were investigated for? (meaning we need to know a bit about the law) etc. " usually when a person starts arguing without reading or attending or researching the subject matter he is arguing, i won't proceed further cos he is just presuming from his coconut on his shoulders.

High profile names. They are in the papers and on Genneva's office wall and videos. Or you can get from the company officers. A good many. Syariah Law professors? A good many. Ask any Genneva consultants. They should know if not i'll be SURPRISED!!!!

When we go into Syariah Law, it is debatable, a big topic beyond our grips. But at least we know they come under the purview of BNM. That is good enough for me. At least the top authority is into this and provides guidelines, particularly for those who practise Islamic banking and financial operations to be able to 'profit' from it righteously in their way of religion. That is, this law for the Muslims. Then, this guideline is even stricter in the sense as it stems from trying to conduct it religiously, if you know what i mean. So at least the higher authority BNM knows what is going on.

That is all i have to say.

understand this is just sharing, nothing personal. I want to discover more.
Thanks bOOn for your opinion.

Taiko,
On Genneva's business structure, there is no doubt it is extremely attractive. Where to find returns of 24% with guaranteed returns of capital ?

As an investor, do you think that we are uninformed (read : so stupidly ignorant) of the potential returns ? If it is really that attractive, why most of us here don't pour our money into Genneva ? I will be the first to liquidate all my business, my real properties, my physical gold, my watch collection, my antique collection, my wife's diamond collection, plus most probably I will sell my wife and mistresses and my left kidney too to invest into the company. In 10 years, I would make 6 times (compounded) my initial investment + potential increase in gold price (could be US$6000/oz in 10 years time, which is another 6 fold) ! With initial investment of say, RM10m, an investor is guaranteed to make RM60m, and potentially another RM60m = RM120m, all in 10 years time !

Why I am so "stupid" not to follow you ?

Because I believe in high risk, high return. The risk is just too high in Genneva. I would rather sweat myself out to work for the money I deserve to earn. This type of high risk money, frankly I got no balls to earn. Not even a single sen because I one day I will be a laughing stock when the company folds up

Remember, Bernard Madoff was caught only after >15 years he is in business and burn away US$65 billion ! And US authority is way more stringent than malaysia. Compare to Madoff, Genneva is just a small potato.

Anyway, I wish you luck

Actually I do not know this is scam or not, because I am not judge, but the summary is:

1. Yes, they sell real gold to people.
2. Yes, they do give hibah (about 2% interest) monthly as promise.

So the annual interest is 24%, so where is the money come from in order to give customer as return? It is simple, every time when customer buy the gold, they have to pay extra 20%, total 120%, which means if the market price of the gold is RM10K, then customer need to pay RM12K for that, so from the 20% extra, the company will be able to use that to give to other customer as the "return" or "hibah". In this case, if they already sold RM10K gold to 10 customers, then they will get total RM12K X 10 = RM120K cash, earn RM20K extra, if next month sold another 10 customers, earn another RM20K extra, but they just need to pay RM2K out as "interest" to the old customers who bought in last month, so the money will like the snow ball keep rolling and become bigger and bigger. But the problem is they have to sell enough gold monthly in order to get the money from the new customer to give the old customer as "interest", if not the whole plan will be collapse. We all know this is just the matter of time because no matter how high is the pyramid, the bottom still on the land, it is no unlimited customer to buy the gold. Yes, we can buy the gold and start earning the "interest" today, or even become a "consultant" to sell the gold to our own auntie & uncle, close friends or colleague, sure they will buy because the interest is so high. But what happen when the plan hit the floor? Most of the people earn RM10K in months but takes years to save RM10K in bank, they will be crying and begging to have their money back.

Once again, I really don't know this is scam or not, but I just think we shouldn't support this kind of the activity because no matter how, there will be victim at the end of the plan...

thanks for sharing. Irrelevant to my fact finding! Discussion ends here.

Oh, you are doing some facts finding ? Then have you found out how they make >24% pa to pay the "investors" the 24% ? Don't tell me it is business secret ?

"Discussion ends here" because it contradicts your wish ?

+1

i did not buy from Genneva becaue i am not foolish enough to pay an extra 18 to 25% premium on spot gold prices
for a gold BAR so THAT i can be paid 1.5% interest or hibah or whatever you wanna term it!


i paid 3.6% premium for gold COINS at $280 and i am in the positive.

In a NUTSHELL, you are paying yourself....................................

Point 2.

Its doesnt cost me any extra to buy the gold bar from somewhere else and the extra permium i would have paid to
genneva is VERY safe earning interest and dividends from somewhere else.
Something you did NOT mention is that the interst contract is for 6 months, not FOREVER.
Is this on purpose?
Deposts in banks earn interest FOREVER as long as the deposit is in the account.

Whos the FOOL who thinks Genneva is paying him?

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Added on June 26, 2012, 7:43 am i pay myself without having to wait for Genneva!
Whos the FOOL? tsk tsk...................

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Jun 26 2012, 07:45 AM

I'll show you a simple calculation:

I buy gold from Genneva say RM20k for a 100gm Gold bar. My cost layout is RM20k. I earn 2% per month, that is RM400/month. Contract is 3 months so in total i earn RM400x 3 months=RM1,200. End of 3rd month i sell back to Genneva at RM20k. So total earnings is RM1,200 in 3 months. Since my outlay is RM20k and when i sell i get back RM20k, that is even. My net is RM1,200 paid by Genneva. If you can't get this arithmetic right, please go back to primary school!!! How did you come to the conclusion that i paid myself??? that is your arithmetic teacher getting angry with you!!

This is not the right way to calculate in finance method. Please do include the cost (risk) of:
1. Period of holding Gold Bar
2. Co. Wind Up (result of cash flow issue)
3. Gold price (did not increase)
4. others

May I know who will be the last player who contribute your interest? Overall this is not a cheating but a game without ethic or I call it 'Unique' Ponzi Scheme.

Thats provided these ASSumptions are there

a) They buy it back.
b) Genneva still exists
b) Next the whole concept of buying gold is its an investment, why sell it back because its going UP!
c) Lets say you dont sell back because the price of gold has gone up. Whos gonna buy it from you when you wanna sell?
Maybe the jewellers will at another 20 to 30% DIscount.


So all in all, you stand there with yer holding the gold bar not knowing who to sell to when you wanna sell............
its all about RISKS....thats the investment game.

ibetyerareanagent.........

how do they end this bisnez in the event all customers returned back the gold for buy back at purchased price... food for thought...

So they depend on new customers to supply the cashflow..................sounds familiar?

they will do fine as long as there r new customers coming in & the gold price keeps escalating...

Yes.

Thats the idea.......

when the gold price drops to 1520, they offered 3% to bring more sales, the queue is incredible...

They need +ve cashflow.

When one buys into this type of scheme, one can only hope one is not the
last holding the bag..................

nowdays so many people still kena con, remember that never hv such thing like free lunch or easy earn money

Most people don't THINK.. due to greed or pure stupidity.

Occam's Razor - follow the money,
IF it doesn't make sense on how the investment can AFFORD to pay out to investor +make $ +cover cost of operations... something's not kosher.