Nice analysis

For some, still take the "calculated" risk.... Greed blinds People.

why must i sell when the Genneva biz has expanded to China, Singapore and the Philippines. You make an assumption that it will collapse. But from what i know in the world market, banks are about to collapse. Worst, Bank Negara DO NOT guarantee your savings!!!!!!!!!! This has been passed 5 years ago. What about Bank Gold Account????????? Worse!!! What about EPF?????????????? you are dead. Banks take your money, invest it and earn few 100% and pay you 3.5% per year!!!!!!!! That is rip off. Then they buy all the big buildings in town. Take a drive and look. Look at their financial report. Even EPF who are non financial experts can pay a meager 5.5% per year. Look, what is wrong with 2% per month. And don't you know that the paper money you are holding is a ponzi scheme??? Created by Fed Reserve Bank of USA????????????? And they are not a Govt bank. it is a PRIVATE BANK OWN BY 13 FAMILIES. Just recently JP Morgan, one of the 13 lost 2 billion US$ on the derivatives market. What is derivative market? It is a fraudulent market manipulation of the financial tool used for speculation and manipulation of the total financial market which is MEANT to break the financial system for some purpose to control the world financial system. This may be beyond your imagination. Now let us face it, Genneva is backed by gold you hold, banks you just hold account books. So who is more secure??? Wen the financial collapse comes, nobody is spared. So this applies to all people, not only Genneva. Perhaps Genneva will survive cos by then GOLD WILL DOUBLE OR TRIPLE IN VALUE - that is if you are learned in gold market and its reason why it must rise in price.

Your calculation seems plausible to an ordinary fellow but it has no depths cos your premise of calculation is based on a fallible assumption on which your calculation rests! Sorry my friend, i heard so much argument i felt disgusted so much so that i retire from such shallow analysis. I apologise being so blunt but I don't have any agenda, just pure intellectual argument. To start an analysis, you can't conclude on your premise of argument before you start a debate.From this you have failed in your presentation of your argument. Sorry, good night.

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Added on May 21, 2012, 11:13 pmwhy must i sell when the Genneva biz has expanded to China, Singapore and the Philippines. You make an assumption that it will collapse. But from what i know in the world market, banks are about to collapse. Worst, Bank Negara DO NOT guarantee your savings!!!!!!!!!! This has been passed 5 years ago. What about Bank Gold Account????????? Worse!!! What about EPF?????????????? you are dead. Banks take your money, invest it and earn few 100% and pay you 3.5% per year!!!!!!!! That is rip off. Then they buy all the big buildings in town. Take a drive and look. Look at their financial report. Even EPF who are non financial experts can pay a meager 5.5% per year. Look, what is wrong with 2% per month. And don't you know that the paper money you are holding is a ponzi scheme??? Created by Fed Reserve Bank of USA????????????? And they are not a Govt bank. it is a PRIVATE BANK OWN BY 13 FAMILIES. Just recently JP Morgan, one of the 13 lost 2 billion US$ on the derivatives market. What is derivative market? It is a fraudulent market manipulation of the financial tool used for speculation and manipulation of the total financial market which is MEANT to break the financial system for some purpose to control the world financial system. This may be beyond your imagination. Now let us face it, Genneva is backed by gold you hold, banks you just hold account books. So who is more secure??? Wen the financial collapse comes, nobody is spared. So this applies to all people, not only Genneva. Perhaps Genneva will survive cos by then GOLD WILL DOUBLE OR TRIPLE IN VALUE - that is if you are learned in gold market and its reason why it must rise in price.

Your calculation seems plausible to an ordinary fellow but it has no depths cos your premise of calculation is based on a fallible assumption on which your calculation rests! Sorry my friend, i heard so much argument i felt disgusted so much so that i retire from such shallow analysis. I apologise being so blunt but I don't have any agenda, just pure intellectual argument. To start an analysis, you can't conclude on your premise of argument before you start a debate.From this you have failed in your presentation of your argument. Sorry, good night.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: May 21 2012, 11:13 PM

1. You do not know what is ponzi scheme.
2. Value of gold affected by supply and demand, inflation, and the quantity of paper money.
3. If you look at the history, gold price increase when the country have a lot of debts, when the gov create a lot of paper money. Price decrease due to the good economic situation, thus money has better value.
4. Genneva scheme will not be able to survive for long term if their sales maintain the same while the players are increasing provided with no increase of gold price.

well, since you are talking about gold only, why cant you buy from goldsmith? Why genneva? Since everyone would be selling more or less the same price.

Then you will be saying because Genneva has hibah, mubah, lanbah, whatever system it is call as it gives out dividend every month.

So, why does Genneva ask you to buy +25% gold price? You think they want to earn the difference profit or what?
Why do you let genneva earns the 25% difference? Are we not looking to buy cheaper gold with the same amount of gold?

Enlighten me please, me dont know gold investment. Im just curious.

Aye...i can get teh same gold bar at much cheaper rates than Genneva...
its still gold to mitigate whatever that poster has written, minus......

Whos the FOOL who pays himself and calls it Hibah?

Only greedy dolts cant see such schemes..............

Bro ProphetJul,

"You can't help people who INTENTIONALLY wants to get rich SUDDENLY"
+ "A fool and his money are soon parted" (BTW, i'm still wondering how a fool got the $ in the first place )
+ "There's a sucker born every minute" (imagine the exponential numbers with current world population! )

Sometimes no point in trying to logic things out with some people, especially when all the facts/statistics/cow-sense are already stated.
Time will tell whether their perspective/reality is true or not.

Just a thought

Great thoughts especially



Confession: i have been a sucker in life as well ......

Another: Fools never learn from mistakes. The wise makes and learns......NOT TO REPEAT them again!

genneva and goldsmith pricing is about the same. Look at ar-rahnu pricing that is roughly the goldsmith pricing.
http://www.hargaemas.com.my/harga
which work out to be RM182/gram of .999 gold

You can also get the same gold from UOB at
http://www1.uob.com.my/jsp/finance/fin_gol...0/#passfuncoins
which work out to be RM168.2/gram.
You can get cheaper if it is a 100 gram bar brought in bulk from overseas.

So, the target market is those who don;t know where to buy cheap gold. The differences in pricing enable them to give interest/hibah.
I have not seen the actual contract and despite many talking nobody is has come forward to us with the actual contract.
If people dun 1 2 be help, just nothing we can do about it.

In normal gold pricing scenario, customer buy gold at RM200/gram. contract 4 months at 1.5% so in total 6% given out.
At the end of contract, they said they will buy back. At what price this one i'm not sure.
They got free money to speculate on gold.

Exactly, how they make $$ I really don't know.

As I have been given to understand, Genneva will buy back at the price at the inception of the 3 month contract, but this is buyback is only a practise not a guarantee, and then again this practise is only a company practise, not one of their industry's as Genneva is not part of the national goldsmith's association.
Herein lies the risk -the promise to buy back at the price contracted is not guaranteed!

And so, when (current) spot prices have risen or remain above the company's buying cost for a particular batch of gold delivery, it makes good business sense to honour the 3 month contract but when (current) spot prices fall or remain below, it makes bad business sense to buy back from customers at the earlier contracted prices, cuz the company will hv to dig into it's reserves to pay the diff. So how long the company can or is willing to withstand such losses is the question.

But then, this happens with every trading business -sometimes the business makes, sometimes it loses. The company only makes when it's well run & managed over & it's only over the long-term that one can tell.

This post has been edited by ccslink: May 22 2012, 11:01 AM

Those blinded by the greed will not buy your/my logic.

Indeed, this (Genneva) is a very good case study. We shall wait and see...

For some people (like me) prefer to "lose the opportunity" than to lose my hard-earn money.

Genneva has a good strategy against gold prices going down. To them it was always about the cash flow.

------------------------
Let's say for example:

50g for RM 10k was your previous contract.

-When the prices go down they still want to keep your RM10K. How do they keep your RM10K for the renewal? Easy they will tell you that your RM10k can get 55g and tell you to renew with more gold.

-When prices go up they will tell you that in order to keep the minimum 50g gold you need to top up. now lets say 50g is RM11K, so you need to top up RM1K more.

--------------------------

You see how it works. When prices go down they try to keep the same amount of cash flow. When prices go up that's when they grow the cash flow by making you keep the same gold weight. Genneva acts more like a finance company than a gold company.

If what u say is true, then it's got shrewd business sense & if get listed on the stock exchange perhaps it'd be a good stock to invest too if they share their profits.

U forget about their hibah+commission pay out about 2-3% per month, where is this money come from?

I don't think the clients don't know where to buy cheap gold. The target market here is those who wants convenience. Even if you hold their hand and give them cheap gold they will not be interested.

Anyways, I don't think the main issue in this is how the company makes money and if they purchase it at a premium. Nobody is considering the waiting period without holding anything for each renewal. Holding nothing is riskier than holding gold at a premium price.

what if customer decided to cash out upon end of contract ? will they get back the same amount of capital invested?

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Added on May 24, 2012, 9:41 amWhat I know the commission to customer on 1.5%, how agent are paid i 'm not sure.

This post has been edited by GoldChan: May 24 2012, 09:41 AM

The "hibah" is 1.5%- 2% depending on grammage if I'm not mistaken. 3% was given during some special occasion. Agents are paid around 0.8% if i'm not mistaken. It works on a binary system.

They are suppose to give back the same amount. But i haven't seen anyone that I know of cash out yet. So whether they really pay back is another story.

If you really are going to for genneva better know your agent well. I hear those that know their agents get paid on time and get their gold quite fast, while those that don't might get their stuff delayed often.

Who knows for sure... Its like insurance/finance companies saying they have all the financial specialists to generate the returns like magic. Its like government bonds giving great returns but yet the governments are still in debt.

i got 2% -2.2% monthly as i always maintain 1kg. My agent told me they earn 0.5% per month +0.3% after he achieved 3.5m sales

Read all the 5 pages... and had nothing more to add, except

"A word to the wise is sufficient."

It seems Genevva is still hot