Don't think they can run to another country when millions are involved. can be extradited from anywhere they escaped to.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: May 20 2012, 12:37 AM

YES THEY ARE NOW IN CHINA, PHILIPPINE AND SINGAPORE, DOING COMBINED SALES OF MORE THAN 7 BILLIONS RM. THINK THE GOVT IN ALL THESE COUNTRIES MUST BE BLIND, LETTING THIS "SCAM" COMPANY TO OPERATE. HA, ALL THESE TEH TARIK TALK, TALKING NONSENSE WITHOUT FACTS. YOU CAN'T CON CHINA, MAN. OR FOR THAT MATTER, SINGAPORE GOVT.!!!!!

why must i sell when the Genneva biz has expanded to China, Singapore and the Philippines. You make an assumption that it will collapse. But from what i know in the world market, banks are about to collapse. Worst, Bank Negara DO NOT guarantee your savings!!!!!!!!!! This has been passed 5 years ago. What about Bank Gold Account????????? Worse!!! What about EPF?????????????? you are dead. Banks take your money, invest it and earn few 100% and pay you 3.5% per year!!!!!!!! That is rip off. Then they buy all the big buildings in town. Take a drive and look. Look at their financial report. Even EPF who are non financial experts can pay a meager 5.5% per year. Look, what is wrong with 2% per month. And don't you know that the paper money you are holding is a ponzi scheme??? Created by Fed Reserve Bank of USA????????????? And they are not a Govt bank. it is a PRIVATE BANK OWN BY 13 FAMILIES. Just recently JP Morgan, one of the 13 lost 2 billion US$ on the derivatives market. What is derivative market? It is a fraudulent market manipulation of the financial tool used for speculation and manipulation of the total financial market which is MEANT to break the financial system for some purpose to control the world financial system. This may be beyond your imagination. Now let us face it, Genneva is backed by gold you hold, banks you just hold account books. So who is more secure??? Wen the financial collapse comes, nobody is spared. So this applies to all people, not only Genneva. Perhaps Genneva will survive cos by then GOLD WILL DOUBLE OR TRIPLE IN VALUE - that is if you are learned in gold market and its reason why it must rise in price.

Your calculation seems plausible to an ordinary fellow but it has no depths cos your premise of calculation is based on a fallible assumption on which your calculation rests! Sorry my friend, i heard so much argument i felt disgusted so much so that i retire from such shallow analysis. I apologise being so blunt but I don't have any agenda, just pure intellectual argument. To start an analysis, you can't conclude on your premise of argument before you start a debate.From this you have failed in your presentation of your argument. Sorry, good night.

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Added on May 21, 2012, 11:13 pmwhy must i sell when the Genneva biz has expanded to China, Singapore and the Philippines. You make an assumption that it will collapse. But from what i know in the world market, banks are about to collapse. Worst, Bank Negara DO NOT guarantee your savings!!!!!!!!!! This has been passed 5 years ago. What about Bank Gold Account????????? Worse!!! What about EPF?????????????? you are dead. Banks take your money, invest it and earn few 100% and pay you 3.5% per year!!!!!!!! That is rip off. Then they buy all the big buildings in town. Take a drive and look. Look at their financial report. Even EPF who are non financial experts can pay a meager 5.5% per year. Look, what is wrong with 2% per month. And don't you know that the paper money you are holding is a ponzi scheme??? Created by Fed Reserve Bank of USA????????????? And they are not a Govt bank. it is a PRIVATE BANK OWN BY 13 FAMILIES. Just recently JP Morgan, one of the 13 lost 2 billion US$ on the derivatives market. What is derivative market? It is a fraudulent market manipulation of the financial tool used for speculation and manipulation of the total financial market which is MEANT to break the financial system for some purpose to control the world financial system. This may be beyond your imagination. Now let us face it, Genneva is backed by gold you hold, banks you just hold account books. So who is more secure??? Wen the financial collapse comes, nobody is spared. So this applies to all people, not only Genneva. Perhaps Genneva will survive cos by then GOLD WILL DOUBLE OR TRIPLE IN VALUE - that is if you are learned in gold market and its reason why it must rise in price.

Your calculation seems plausible to an ordinary fellow but it has no depths cos your premise of calculation is based on a fallible assumption on which your calculation rests! Sorry my friend, i heard so much argument i felt disgusted so much so that i retire from such shallow analysis. I apologise being so blunt but I don't have any agenda, just pure intellectual argument. To start an analysis, you can't conclude on your premise of argument before you start a debate.From this you have failed in your presentation of your argument. Sorry, good night.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: May 21 2012, 11:13 PM

You did not answer my searching questions : If Genneva is truly a scam (means cheat), how come 4 Govt in diff countries could not detect their SCAM?? After more than a year? Heard they are doing RM3b in Malaysia and RM3b in 3 other countries. Now it is going for more than a year!!!!!!! Please understand its meaning SCAM. Also if it is PONZI scheme, banks are the worst PONZI scheme in the world.........America leads the world in this, having no gold backing for their paper money. We call it fiat money, just paper. But how can Genneva be ponzi scheme??? Ponzi scheme are also rejected by BNM. Very confusing!!!


Need someone to enlighten me cos I have bought some of the gold bars and attended some of their meetings! Nothing illegal or scam about it. Hello, it involves religious Syariah Laws compliance and you think the religious advisors from BNM will acccept frauds?? Don't tell me they were paid off.........PLEASE! Don't insult these people in BNM and the Syariah Law experts who are religious people!! I heard one of the Advisor from BNM SITs on the Board of Genneva as advisor and observer that Genneva practise the Syariah Law Compliancein its fullest compliance. Please don't confuse the public!!!! Luckily, i'm not confused.

Since you have bought and how much are you getting now??? NOTHING because it's sitting in your safe waiting for the price to go up. What if it doesn't and what if the price drops???
How much premium did you pay when you bought the gold bar??? Don't tell me it is at spot price.

When the price goes up and you sell, how much discount will the gold smith shop deduct from spot price??? If the price drops, worst for you. It is between 20-25% off the spot price.

In Genneva, it is savings, it is not investment. If you pay a premium for it, you get paid an interest on the premium amount every month. When you sell back to Genneva, you get back the fixed price you first paid when you buy. So u just earn an interest each month from the time you buy to the time when you decide to sell back to Genneva. So u don't lose on your original price you paid for the gold bar.

It is just a savings account secured by gold. Just like when you put in your money in the bank, you get a bank book and you get interests per year at say 3.5%. When you want to withdraw, you just take out your original amount you put in. That's in a nutshell.

POINT 2.
Say the gold spot price is now RM150 per gm. Goldsmith spot price will be say RM180/gm, that is RM18,000 for 100 gm. Say Genneva rate is RM200 per gm. Therefore if you buy a 100 gm, it will cost you RM20,000 at Genneva's rate.

So pls put into your own savings account RM18,000 and pay yourself 2% each month. If I were to put RM20,000 in Genneva, Genneva will pay me 2% each month. I get additional RM400 each month not out of my own pocket. But you are paying yourself. Who's the fool??Very shallow analysis with no substance. Work out cash inflow and cash outflow. Any increase in your inflow??It is that simple. Tsk tsk tsk.........

Argument ends. Bye bye.

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Added on June 25, 2012, 9:32 pmI have read all the argument and many people said lots of things but it make no sense to me. Let's look into this scenario. If there is finanicial crisis, the people who are affected will be those that hold paper cash, shares, paper security like mutual funds, bonds....etc. The people that hold gold will probably double or triple their value. If there is a financial crisis, most likely Genneva could be surviving and double or triple their holding value. Most gold companies will be safe from the crisis. By then, of course i will not sell back to Genneva my gold which i have bought but hold it further before i sell it on the open market like to Australia's Perth Mint etc.. So between now and at time of financial crisis, i will put to good use my money earning a safe interest income, each month. That is in a nut shell.

Welcome to comment intelligently. This is just sharing ideas.
Tks for reading.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: Jun 25 2012, 09:32 PM

Yes having been to their meetings, I know that. The old one under investigation is Genneva Sdn Bhd and the new one is Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd. And i do know that BNM has acknowledged its operation under the new name with the "old package" operating behind.Well this is common knowledge but 'funnily' BNM still allow them to operate, coming to 2 years now! Since they have a Syariah law professor as advisor from BNM on their board and 3 other professors in Genneva panel including one seconded from a bank, BNM should know, they do have their own officers checking on companies like them. My question is, why didn't BNM and ROC strike Genneva off?? I was told that Genneva is also reporting to BNM on a monthly basis. So that is why i couldn't believe all the talk about Genneva being scam (very easy to shut down these kind of companies). These rumours could have come from different quarters who were severely affected by Genneva's operations. They were also investigated for breaking the AMLA act. But investigation is going on but this is not investigation into scam. Todate I was told that BNM could find any misdeeds by Genneva. Many of the postings in Lowyat and else where has mistaken investigation means guilty..... investigation means they are checking for proof. Both the investigation is not for fraud or scam but are for breaking the BAFIA and AMLA act which has nothing to do with SCAM!!!!! So i'm a bit pissed off from people who simply quote others like parrots and also they themselves have such shallow analysis.

Thanks bOOn.

They say the so-called hibah is you pay yourself. Do an inflow and outflow mental calculation, and you know they are so shallow in your thoughts.

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Added on June 25, 2012, 10:32 pmYou are right Cherroy. For that they were investigated under BAFIA ACT. By the way, i found that Genneva is a second schedule business institution following guidelines laid out by BNM. So they have to amend their agreement to exclude that under BAFIA act...buy back guarantee. Under Syariah Law, they can't put that either. Hence the first time they were investigated, it was for this purpose, NOT for scam reasons as many of the comments we keep on hearing people say. The 2nd investigation was about AMLA act, again not for scam investigation. People always like to have scare mongering and show others how well they were informed. That really pissed me cos i was influenced also.

Cheers Cherroy.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: Jun 25 2012, 10:32 PM

Ok, i have to find that out if there are investors under old company who were "cheated" by that company. Interestingly, I don't hear anything at the ground. However, normally in this kind of sharing, I like to establish my principle abt this - first if i do not do a fact finding research on it, i decline to comment. Simply put, i would ask this to a person, "have you been to their meeting? have been to their office? Do you know what they were investigated for? (meaning we need to know a bit about the law) etc. " usually when a person starts arguing without reading or attending or researching the subject matter he is arguing, i won't proceed further cos he is just presuming from his coconut on his shoulders.

High profile names. They are in the papers and on Genneva's office wall and videos. Or you can get from the company officers. A good many. Syariah Law professors? A good many. Ask any Genneva consultants. They should know if not i'll be SURPRISED!!!!

When we go into Syariah Law, it is debatable, a big topic beyond our grips. But at least we know they come under the purview of BNM. That is good enough for me. At least the top authority is into this and provides guidelines, particularly for those who practise Islamic banking and financial operations to be able to 'profit' from it righteously in their way of religion. That is, this law for the Muslims. Then, this guideline is even stricter in the sense as it stems from trying to conduct it religiously, if you know what i mean. So at least the higher authority BNM knows what is going on.

That is all i have to say.

understand this is just sharing, nothing personal. I want to discover more.
Thanks bOOn for your opinion.

thanks for sharing. Irrelevant to my fact finding! Discussion ends here.

I'll show you a simple calculation:

I buy gold from Genneva say RM20k for a 100gm Gold bar. My cost layout is RM20k. I earn 2% per month, that is RM400/month. Contract is 3 months so in total i earn RM400x 3 months=RM1,200. End of 3rd month i sell back to Genneva at RM20k. So total earnings is RM1,200 in 3 months. Since my outlay is RM20k and when i sell i get back RM20k, that is even. My net is RM1,200 paid by Genneva. If you can't get this arithmetic right, please go back to primary school!!! How did you come to the conclusion that i paid myself??? that is your arithmetic teacher getting angry with you!!

How do they use our money to make money. Please go thru the whole process of how Genneva make use of our money. Please don't just say it and don't illustrate HOW. You mean they don't have initial capital but use our money to start their business? Can't believe it.

Don't waste your time here. Ask the bank, Bill Gates, Apple, Sony how they make money and show you how it is done....please don't ask idiotic questions.

All posts in this forum doesn't tell me anything, just wild guess, rumour mongering, tale bearing, teh tarik talk! Just all that kind of low level thinking. No facts, no figures, cos all never bother to do homework, check out the company, go to their gold talks etc..... even calculation is wrong.

I starting to waste time here.....!!!

Do your homework before yakking nonsense.

just wondering, why BNM with whole group raided Genneva when they did not run away or default on their agreements? WHY WHY? What is the ulterior motive? Freezing a company just like that will cause hardship for innocent people. Cos the interest under hibah is non taxable? or the banks complain cos ppl are drawing deposits and putting into Genneva? or.....you guess correctly..! May be only certain "quarters' are allowed to go under hibah? and not the non-qualifiers? or .....can we just postulate on and on?? Or too many from non-qualifiers are enjoying the rights of tax free hibah which is reserved for qualifiers. I dono...just wondering. You can guess all u want. Pls be aware quite a numbers of anti Genneva bloggers are actually ppl who sell gold....many of them "loss" business due to this new kid on the block- Genneva! JUST WONDERING AND GIVING MY 2 kg GOLD WORTH OF OPINION. In Malaysia as they say...semua pun boleh. I just sympathise on the customers..............shld get at the company and not the customers.

Mahathir did the open ceremony for launch of Genneva Syariah Compliance and Deputy Finance minister opening of Genneva office. How come this can be raided?? Ha ha ha......let's see any help from MCA? Coincidence? Now MCA becomes relevant again cos from my guesstimate, quite substantial customers are from MCA and DAP.....my guess! Semua pun boleh.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: Oct 1 2012, 07:45 PM

Yes Eddy, that is correct.....but shld not inflict hardships on customers. Now looks like by raiding, they cause hardships instead of penalising the company, it is not the company that cause the hardship, it is the raiding parties..........so in the end result, who is making this difficult?? Just because they want to investigate, doesn't warrant them to penalise the customers.....I can't see the logic unless they also during the course of investigation release what is rightfully customers' to the customers. Just my opinion.

Not only Public Gold...also those who sell gold, they can investigate you as long as they think you are under suspicion. Or they think you evade income tax. So when they investigate, you are done. Don't think it only happen to Genneva. Then all your gold is in their custody, what happen to that gold is in question. 5 years? 10 years?

All the same, most of the bloggers here are those who sold gold and who loss much business to Genneva are blogging here in concerted effort in this forum. Is all the same bloggers who appear here most of the time. From their tone, you can discern they are not advising people but actually condemning Genneva with a vengeance. If i'm a blogger, i won't react like that. That is why most Genneva consultants are not interested in this forum.

By the way, Genneva has to suspend its operation not because they con people and absconded, get that right. They broke the law?? It has a panel of lawyers to guide them. What the authorities do, they have every right to do it. What makes you think they won't raid your gold or silver business, if they suspect you? What makes you think the Inland Revenue won't raid your business if they suspect you evade paying taxes?? And why are you so happy and judgmental on this case just because you have said in this forum "I told you?" Genneva is being investigated but YOU HAVE ALREADY PRONOUNCE JUDGMENT AS GUILTY ALREADY?? A blogger don't react this way. You have a vested interest in this topic!! If guilty, still the gold has to be given back to the depositor. No depositors complain but they were raided...this is a strange case. You laugh but one day you will be laughed at! It always come back in a circle but in another way. Just watch! You said "with this I rest my case". Don't sound like a pathetic lawyer! You aren't in that class.

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Added on October 2, 2012, 10:36 amHa ha ha

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: Oct 2 2012, 10:36 AM

ha ha ha ha....ha.......ha. what a show. here comes your conspiracy amongst your bloggers. welldone.

Ask an actuary to do a calculation. Then you will perhaps see the ingenuity in this. Most banks fear this cos it will weaken the paper currency. Banks have actuaries working for them. When there is a bank run, they are dead. For your interest, Federal Reserve Bank controls all world banks. Google about Federal Reserve Bank and search in You Tube, it will turn up some surprises for you (definitely). They started the fiat paper money not back by gold standard. China is moving toward backing their currency with gold, good to buy China currency!

that's all you got for an answer???????????????????? skip blogging, cos you have no ethics and can't blog but spew nonsense. don't expect me to answer you again. there are idiots who speak and are confirmed a fool!!!!!!!! sorry for being rude.

Do they look like throwing stones at Genneva??? What is bad.....the authorities?? They are just doing their job. And you are hilarious....you selling gold also??? Let's see what happen later.

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Added on October 2, 2012, 8:10 pmyou have such low mental intelligence i wonder what is your profession. please read my post again. you can't even answer properly. I din say authorities shld not investigate Genneva, but it has to ensure the customers are not inconvenience in their investigation. you are not interested in blogging but just thrash out some irrelevant rubbish! and your bad analogy...drugs and Genneva. One person post and another support. Looks like both are working in synchronise fashion. What utter rubbish is this blogging. Any, jinliew, no more comments on your post cos i don't blog with unprofessionals teh tarik talkers. just not worth the effort. don bla bla bla, not interested.

This post has been edited by AUGUST777: Oct 2 2012, 08:10 PM