Firefox is a high memory consumer, especially on N900. Web browser too as it's constantly running in the backgruond, the phone will feel hot and consuming battery even in sleep mode.
Previously when I was doing the N9 review, I did stress test video, I didn't really open many apps, but there's Firefox with few tabs, Maps, and several other; It lags pretty badly and I tried to continue play NFS Shift, the phone actually hangs and have to force turn off. Firefox is the main culprit and back then the Firefox is still early version. Not sure about the new one as I seldom or rarely use N9 to browse since I prefer qwerty keyboard.

But to run many apps is possible, just depending what apps.

In N900, with Kmplayer, when you minimize, the video still continues to play, this is quite amazing. Once I output the video to TV, then I receive an SMS, so I switch to multi-tasking window and read the SMS, the video still playing in the TV while my phone screen is in SMS, so I just reply and send; this is pretty amazing, but it does cause some jitter to the video when sending and during receiving. To think about it, N900 only have 256MB Ram, with 768MB being virtual memory... When the virtual memory is used up to certain level, it can cause heavy impact on the performance.
I'm not sure about N9 with virtual memory since the RAM is already so high.

Press the power/lock button once.

I don't see any problem with with people to disagree with it either. Everyone has their opinion.
If I believe Windows Phone will fail, you can disagree. So, can I say you're also a fanboys of something else? But I never said anything about such things despite all of what you said before.

Do highlight where is the bashing part. I would love to see it and what is bashing means to you.

---

Added on March 21, 2012, 11:03 pmActually, most or many Nokia phones also suffer the same, but N900 and N9 is suffers more on the support part.

N8 thread was once very hot, very very hot, lol.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 21 2012, 11:03 PM

Actually Kenny's previous article already have many information and predictions form others with statistics and so on. Long before that, also have many predictions. I think it's a natural and normal process, and if people actually got read it, it may not come to this.

Anyway, we're like to stating the obvious on what are the drawbacks on Windows Phone OS. Some did not take it well I suppose, but each have their own opinion and ways. I guess sometimes, you just have to know and accept that some people just cannot discuss and take it well.

Show me in quote. I want to see it also.
I didn't say cannot (or at least meant to), what I meant is it's only surface. I did reply that you can and with many reason, I guess you also get carried away and didn't take it with rational mind.

I've explain to you later that I have gone overboard and get carried away; my initial statement is to let you know the difference between comparing with surface/cover, and another is to understand why. But you can still compare as you like. It's just mere information sharing to you. But seem you rather not have people share with you.

Where did I went mum? quote me.
Did I say it's not right? I myself wrote a big list of N9 drawbacks, but you prefer to see me as a Windows Phone hater and make claims about it.

WHERE is the bashing? QUOTE and SHOW ME.
WHERE is the biased? QUOTE and SHOW ME.

Try to read back with rational and calm mind what I actually said about the article. As I recall and read back, only the first line was about the article which I said, "not very useful". Well, I personally find it "not very useful".
Is is biased? It is bashing? Wow.

Wait, I praise Lumia 800 too. But you prefer to ignore everything. I also praise Lumia here before, before we Rangers get our device, I also did the same in Lumia 800 thread, budden it's not important anyway.

Again, where is the bashing? I just said, "not very useful". The rest is more like what I feel we should concentrate on.

I think it's more like you're trying something here? With links and no words; tell me, you expect me to not be suspicious, but I try not to think that way as I have tried to end the previous debate with you peacefully and admitting my mistake, but you doesn't seem to done any.

No and No.
I read through but not in detail because it's more about what she felt and also how it further confirms the believe. i find nothing useful (to me), it's more like a happy read. Budden I never said it's bad, just said I don't find it useful. Is it cannot?

WOW! I didn't complain about the N9? HAHAHAHA, this is the biggest joke in history. Now it's more clear that you're biased and jump to conclusions.

Even though I like N900 a lot, I even complain and talk about the drawback a lot in N900 thread, just do a search. I think aspire sifu will remember this more. I complain about the lack of ram mainly on N900, no ringtone assignment to contacts, no contacts grouping and so much more.

Don't judge a person when you don't know the person. I already said, I'm trying to be fair, I talk about the goods as well as the bads.
I have talk about Windows Phone great features, but did you notice or even read?

Amazing!

---

Added on March 21, 2012, 11:38 pmJudge? Where?
I see you're judging me more, calling me this and that, calling me hater for Windows Phone, calling fanboy or something else, calling bashers. Did I ever call you anything before that?

For the previous debate, I've already admitted what I did, I went overboard and get carried away. I shouldn't have write it that way because what I wanted to do were more like sharing and highlighting, but the discussion turns a nit ugly. If you're still unhappy, then I can't do anything.

It's simple, it I'm bashing, just show to me. I would like to know which part do you mean I'm bashing. I don't see it honeslty. Enligthen me. If I did, why do I need to disagree? If it's true, I will admit, if not I will explain to you what it means and if you still disagree then it's fine, at least we move a step and discuss?
In my point of view, if there's any misunderstanding or unhappiness, just tell it out and see if we can understand each other, if we can't then we try not to discuss on it further. Simple as that, we're not kids anymore.
If you don't want to show and let me know, then we can't proceed, but it's fine, we can just leave it at there. You an call me whatever you want as long as it make you feel better and happy, but personally I would prefer if we can sort it about by understanding each other better.





This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 21 2012, 11:38 PM

First off, thanks for taking the step. So, let me explain my part:
1. Firstly, I already admit my mistake and apologize on my previous debate with you.
2. Note above I didn't say "you" cannot and I didn't disagree with Windows Phone OS being smooth.
In my personal point of view, Windows Phone is built to be simple, which will obviously be smoother.
MeeGo was not just aimed to be simple, it's aimed for few things, so, generally, it will not be able to compete with Windows Phone OS.
I use example like a car which develop for fuel saving purpose, and a sports car which also optimize for fuel saving.
Surely, I think you don't have to compare at all, but you can still compare to see:
A. How much fuel saving is the car which is made for fuel saving against the sports car which is also fuel efficient. This is to know the "difference" in details not to show or just say "this fuel saving car saves more fuel than the sports car" which obviously is already know.

BUT, that's my opinion and what I wish to share with you. If you disagree, IT'S OK. I'm cool with it and I've admitted my mistake for going overboard over it.

I guess I miss that. I apologize for that, it's a long reply by the way and as I said, I got carried away when replying, which later I admitted and inform you.
Anyway, I've explain in above post.

I'm using DSLR as example, I can use any example. It's a software point of view, it may not be understand by everyone, so I use DSLR or Camera. If we buy a camera, we have all the options and custom settings. And actually it has nothing to do with DSLR or not.
These are all software settings. If a company comes out with a camera that only have AUTO and SCENE mode. What happens? Do we keep quiet and feedback on the need for more features.
AUTO and SCENE mode still gets the job done for many people, but does it mean they can drop those other features?

It's not about being a perfectionist, if you still don't get what I mean, then I can't help it. Above example is what I meant. I never said things need to be perfect. I understand software, it's not like hardware limitation.
As Windows Phone, I've said it's great, but these limitations and restrictions is drawing people away and it's software part, which can be easily resolved. I didn't complain about the ram cause I know nothing can be done (although it's nice to have more), I have few complains with the hardware (same with N9), but I know nothing can be done, so I didn't mention it.
For software part, it can actually be resolved.

Again, it's my personal opinion and what I would like to share with you. If you still disagree and wish to call be perfectionist, then I can't do anything, but I am quite a perfectionist but I know how to differentiate what is reasonable and can be improve and what can't.


1. About your article, no, it's not because you said bad things about N9. I have many complains on N9 as well. This is an honest answer, It's not about not happy. Ok, this is what happen, I was trying to explain when comparing performance, which I think should consider how the device function and so on, so we can understand why Windows Phone is smoother and so on. I got carried away in writing, so I apologize.
If I were to write, I would write Windows Phone is smoother too but I would mentioned why, and why N9 or any other phones has some hiccups, etc.
I notice it's your article and your opinion; So I retract and apologize, as my initial intention was just to let you know but it didn't turn out well.

2. For the article which I said not very useful, again, it's for me. because I feel it's just a happy read. I wish to see she would highlighted some disadvantages WHICH is not to benefit me, but if she have said it, and Microsoft or Nokia has read it, it would've been more helpful.
That's why I said, what we should concentrate on.
In my opinion, resolving these limitations and restrictions, can help to resolve many problems; Imagine, if there is no such restrictions, we all won't be having this discussion and we all would be more happily enjoying the device.

3. I'm not sure when did I show or give impression that N9 is godlike? To tell the truth, did you know that I complained a lot about N9 and as time goes by, I become less and less keen about the device, until recent PR1.2 updates, which give better experience; but I still didn't praise it like godlike as far as I'm concern. It's also not my primary device, but it's reliable to make phone calls and sms, and there is Skype/Facebook Chat.

Anyway, what I'm not happy is mainly on the part when you said no bluetooth, mass-storage thing and you specifically mentioned not to complain because iPhone also same (or something like this), which I PERSONALLY find it's not good way because:
1. Just because iPhone have this limitations, doesn't means it's ok for other to have it.
2. We need to help to raise awareness on how important these features.

This is what I feel when I read that article, again, it's your article. I'm sorry that I've gone overboard, as what I wanted is just to inform in, but I did it badly.

First, I say thanks for making the steps, I've provide my explanation. If you don't agree, it's OK, at least we both tried. I don't want to make enemy or have any unhappy feelings with each other or anybody, so it's best if we could talk it out and settle it, rather than keeping the thorn inside each other.

Erm, I don't recall DSLR=N9 thing, but as above, I was merely trying to explain the software features and functions. Yes, it's my way, not for comparison, it's for using as EXAMPLE.
I'm not so sure about you, I think it's normal to use other example to explain something else.
For example: In programming we have polymorphism, when I explain to people in non-technical term, I use Clark Kent and Superman; An object can change to different form.
If I cause any misunderstanding here, then I'm truly sorry, it was not to show which is godlike or which is better.

Yes, in my first post, I'm judging you, so I have apologize (I know sorry doesn't mean I can just get away), but in the previous post, I think you judged me, so I'm just telling you not to.

I didn't expect DSLR out of Lumia, if you read my post again and again, I only wish Windows Phone (Not Nokia, Not Lumia) to remove the limitations and restrictions (reliance on Zune, add bluetooth file transfer, mass storage mode, and some issues like supporting more than 1 mobile number). Is that a lot to ask?
These are easily added and not a big problem, but the way I see it, it can be a big issue to many current Symbian users. Nokia themselves know, so I don't blame Nokia, even Thomas knew when I told him, his feedback was nothing much they can do as well.

Anyway, I hope the above will give a good and clears our understanding. If you disagree with ANY, it's OK, we don't have to be unhappy about each other or use any other words or calling. Honestly, I do not wish it, it's not a nice feeling. To make a friend is better than to make an enemy.

Lastly, again, I'm really sorry for quoting your article and reply you in that way. Hope we can come to an understanding of the above.

You buy just because of Maps? It wouldn't be a good choice.
Previously you were deciding between Lumia and N9, you go for N9 just because it doesn't require data? But I thought you knew Lumia will get update which will fix the issue?

Web browser is usually one of the main culprit but the default browser should be better especially since it doesn't support flash. For N900, the flash is one of the major performance killer, some people turn it off. The great thing here is there is option/choice for user, instead of not providing and giving excuses (e.g. Mr Jobs). But he successfully killed it I guess, no more Flash for future smartphone OS. Before that, it was said to come on MOST (if not all) smartphone OS, except iOS.

Luckily they manage to get flash on Firefox for MeeGo. For N9, I don't really like the default browser because it's very plain and simple, even after PR1.2, they didn't seem to add in features like history, bookmarks, and so on. I think they might not be improving/adding it further. Just wonder will we still get PR1.3

In terms of web browsing performance between MeeGo default browser and Windows Phone IE browser, I do agree with ViraVira (as said in his article/blog); despite the IE browser score less in html5test, but you can feel it's smoother, more snappy, it gives better browsing experience. What MeeGo currently has is the advantage on FireFox for those and can compromise on the performance for what it can do or offer.

True, the thing flexibility is, user need to know the limitation on the hardware or what will happen if they run many apps.
In a way, Microsoft control and limit on how many apps can be run is a good, but it'll be even better if they provide options for user to customize further. You know, like Advanced mode, and then further customization. For general users, they can go with the "recommended" settings. But these are more like "nice to have" improvements in future.

Didn't know about the swap, thanks for the info.
For N900, what I notice is, when the swap is use up to like 150MB, the device will be really sluggish most of the time, and I will restart the device. There's also ways to sort of force it to use more ram by adjusing the swappiness properties or completely turn it off and face the consequences lol. There's actually an app called "swappoluble" for Maemo, which you can customize some variables or use the "recommended" settings from the developer.

Since N9 has 1GB Ram, I suppose we can turn off or adjust the swappiness level to very low like 10 or 20? Default should be 100. The problem is we can't monitor the ram usage. In Maemo, there is Desktop and you can put widgets to monitor the process and ram usage. I would say Maemo is very optimize in terms of processor and ram usage, despite the slow processor and ram, it can multi-task very well and it's still smooth to switch between different apps. N9 with 1GB Ram should do much better, that's like 4X the ram of N900.

Personally though, I would like to have more powerful device running Maemo5, but the source is with Nokia and they're not releasing it. Else, the team in maemotalk.org would've done wonders. They've modified the kernels to do many things, and there's also CSSU (Community Seamless Software Update) to provide their own updates, they fixed a bug which took quite some time before Nokia did. Imagine that, lol.
If the source was given, I can't imagine how it will turn out.


Yup, CuteTube is great, the developer did a fine job. I mainly use it for download. In Maemo5, it was free, lol; but the developer deserve to be paid for the amazing app.

Reboot should mean restart.

You want the scren to go black, just press once the power/lock key.
If you leave it, it will turn off the display and go into sleep mode after some time (which you can set in settings).

To re-active or wake, press the power/lock key or double tap on the screen (double tap can be disabled in settings).

In settings, you can also set the swipe down to close feature. So when you slide an application from top to down, it will close. This also depends on screen orientation, in landscape mode (and the app switches to landscape view), it's top to bottom in landscape.


Can't compare with N8, N8 much louder; but both are mono speaker, so it's better not to go too loud.

No video and yes, how is that possible, it's been like this since N900 more 2 years ago. Never implemented on N900. How is that possible right, a Nokia product. Plus, Symbian have nice contacts management, but it's not implemented to Maemo and MeeGo.

If you have used one, you may understand the feeling. EVen now, I still prefer the N900. Some of the N900 users after switching to other still looked back. You know there're few exceptional device from Nokia? Like 6600, N95, etc. N900 is one of them with very complete hardware (there's Infrared, stereo speaker, lens cover, stylus, qwerty) and a great OS. With the default browser, you can activate the "mouse cursor" so you can do the drag and drop thing, you can do "hover", useful on dynamic websites, you can visit desktop version of Facebook and pretty much do everything like the desktop version, chat, organize pictures in album (drag-and-drop). You can easily select portion of the text too since you can activate the mouse cursor, and use keyboard short-cuts.

Then the multi-tasking is a breeze and convenient to use, just tap the top left you'll go into mutl-tasking window and you can easily switch between apps. So, let's say I'm half way SMS, I can switch to the browser copy some text, switch back to SMS and paste there easily and fast. I tried doing the same on Android, oh the horror.

What I can say is, it's like having a mini pocket-size laptop in your hand, and it can do many basic/usual things that a laptop can do. This in my opinion, brings smartphone experience a closer step to mobile computer experience, what initially POCKET PC meant to achieve.
It doesn't need the person to be advance to use it, if a person can use the computer, it's pretty much the same, there's a desktop like usualy computer where you can put your icons anywhere you like, even overlap one another, no restrictions like where you can put and so on; so the customization of the Desktop is most unique, you can find many creatively design desktop from many users. In LYN N900 thread, there're many types of users, so it's no necesarily one must be advance user. The main issue is the lack of apps/games, official MMS support, 3G calls. The Ovi store is practically useless. Nokia never seem to bother about MMS and 3G calls even up to PR1.3. MMS was supported by 3rd party application and it uses data/internet instead.

There's mplayer (uses processing power) which can decode most of the video file format/types, also have subtitles support. With TV Out, it can also serve as a media player, just dump videos into it and most of the time it just plays without any issue unless it's higher quality, then it may not be able to render properly or at all. There's also Knots2, which allows streaming of video via wifi from the PC's VLC Player, so I can use my PC to stream HD videos to N900 and output through TV.

Anyway, it's a great device, if only there's a better spec version to catch up with today's standard.

Thanks, will look into that Drop Cache.
Last time when I run Firefox and close later, I notice the device is laggy as well, have to restart.

Yup, you can say most (if not all) those great apps for N900 is free. I don't visit OVI Store. In N900, by default there's App Manager, which you can add other repository (something like Cydia on jailbroken iOS), here you can find tons of apps, there're some ported from Desktop version (there's Chromium aka Google Chrome), there're also WarCraft2 & StarCraft (whcih runs on different engine), there's DOSBox, so much more. There's also some Java package you can install, then you can run NetBeans IDE! That's plain crazy though.
With Ir, there's Ir Remote app (as usual) and also Remote Trigger for DSLR.
Anyway, there're many nice apps, but most people wants those famous and popular apps like those on iOS and Adroids.
There's WebOS game ported by some dev though, and some member runs on Nitdroid to have some Android games; but still, the experience will not be the same as having an iOS or Android.

Basically, the main attraction for most people is simple, they want apps and games, those that are popular and nice. Nokia didn't push enough effort on this for Maemo and MeeGo, even Samsung did better for their Bada OS?
As for Microsoft, I believe they've been pushing hard on this since sometime a go.

N9 video playback is not as good as N8; I tested some 720p video, N9 cannot play it properly but N8 has no problem at all.
As for DLNA, I suppose Symbian is more widely use and they have larger teams and more attention, so there should be less issue and if any, it could be rectified and sorted much faster.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 22 2012, 05:11 PM

Yea, the resistive touch, but there's good things about it especially for smaller screen where precision is important, you can use stylus or fingernails or other objects. I don't have to zoom in when I need to click a link (and I don't or rarely zoom in when browsing during N900 time). However, multi-touch is still a desirable feature. The responsiveness of N900's resistive screen is actually very good compared with many other resistive screen.
Now there's Samsung Galaxy Note which show off the drawing ability, but I find drawing on N900 is somewhat easier despite the smaller screen; not sure if the Note stylus can be calibrated cause sometimes or most of the time, I find when I touch the screen with the stylus, it register somewhere else.

Anyway, N900 have a port of MyPaint app, a powerful paint application, and someone have done nice drawings with it. Even LYN have some users done some art with it.

Here one interesting one, considering the small screen, it's amazing.


As for competition, I think N900 may fall in different categeory as iPhone. Hence, it'll be nice for Nokia to support multi-platform; For iPhone, in my opinion, the Windows Phone OS does have the potential to compete against it, but the problem is branding and popularity.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 22 2012, 05:52 PM

Yup, back during the time of N900, many people were asking about the 3G and MMS, because of this, they sold or didn't get it. Then it's all about apps and games. Their friends are enjoying game on iPhone/Androids, so how can they stand, hee. Moreover, if there's multiplay, they'll be left out and also left out of the circle or conversation, no idea what they're talking about.
But actually for iOS, there's an option, which is iPod Touch which you can get for 1/3 of iPhone price, but you cannot have data, and have to rely on wifi.

I think I download it before but seems not working, I think that was the early versions or something.


Good for show only, cannot do, lol, way too laggy. NetBeans IDE consume high resource even on Desktop PC, lol. But with the Java library (forget what's it's called), you can run applets, and stuffs on the phone. It's like having full java on the phone, not the ME edition.

My colleague got the Samsung Wave on Bada, during that time, they done more promotion and giving free games and bringing apps and games to the platform. But Nokia didn't, we only have Angry Birds on N900, and some other puzzle or blocks type of game, but the device was not so much meant for gaming, more for work, the 9 series.

Yup, MS pushing and attracting developers is obvious that it's highlighted in GSMArena and several sites. It'll take some time, but it'll definitely catch up; but their marketplace needs better organization or some sort, most feedback I have is the marketplace is not so convenient to browse and apps/games are not sorted well, you often see useless 1 star app on top, weird. Even myself, when I was browsing to see what free app/games it has, after browsing very far below, only I found more interesting and the common app/games.


The GPU is great, but did you notice banding issues on Nokia devices? I first notice the severity on N8, but seems very few notice this, but it's so obvious, once I show it, they can see it clearly. You can see this on N9 as well, but not as bad as N8. N900 has no or very little banding issue, so I never really notice it, but on N8, it's very obvious.

Here's an explanation and sample of banding.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php

Here's the sample video I took, not so obvious when see from video, but it's there. E7 with CBD also same.



Nice and addicting games, but not everyone draw nicely.

If got bigger scree it's better, on small screen and using fingers, it's horrible.
Samsung Galaxy Note is nice for this, Tablets even better.

Same, I got the iPod Touch, but I hardly use it after a while. The gaming is quite fun, but it's have not much control so not all types of game is suitable; Still prefer to play on PSP.
One app which I particularly like is the "Dynolicious" app

Let's hope so. There's still many things to improve on Windows Phone. Talk about scrolling, the contacts could use a better scrolling feature like in N9, you can scroll to specific alphabet easily, or like Android, you can easily filter by scrolling. The seems to missed this on Windows Phone, but they really did amazing job on SNS, you don't have to install Facebook application at all, you can comment directly, like, tag, etc. Very cool! When you browse a picture or post, it will be cached into the phone. You can view them even when offline, since it's cached into the phone, zooming is smooth and quality is still there (unlike Android), and you can even save it even offline as it's already cached. This is the Amazing Everyday experience, lol. I'm surprise how detail and well they did this, but other features seems they just do the basics.

Finally! After so long, a very good explanation. The bit you mean color?
I've been wondering is it because of the color but then my N900 (65K) doesn't seem to be obvious, that what makes me wonder, but maybe it's because of the resolution and pixel count, and also screen size.

I mean can draw, but not easy, small screen and finger also cover so big already.
I've seen those that draw very detail and nice. I tried drawing with the Galaxy Note, it was soooo much better, first the screen is big, you can draw more details and with the stylus, even better. Just that I find it's not always accurate to the touch, sometimes you touch on this spot, it appears on another spot. Have to hold it properly. Plus, you can see gap between the glass and the display, unlike N9 and Lumia 800

Got once, I wanted to choose Side-Burn, I tap on it, but didn't know I tap wrongly. After I send the drawing, only I notice I selected Mustache. LOL! The fellar must be cracking head figuring what's wrong, but luckily managed to get it right, since got words to guess. Plus, there is "cheat" also, hehe~~~
I also kena something like this or some drawing that doesn't make sense, I use the words and slowly come up with the answer, also have to use "cheat" to help me identify which word is not in the list.

I notice got one bug, anyone got the word "USB"?
I draw USB, when I watch back the person guess, there is no "U" word in the list? LoL, how to answer.

Dyno app. There're few Dyno apps for iOS, but this one is one of the nice ones.

Ahhh, thanks! Got it!

Yup, no Facebook Group access, only friends/contact at the moment. Not sure how they will implement group, as in Facebook, we have personal grouping of the contacts and then there's the discussion or group page. Perhaps just sync the friends grouping in Facebook is enough.

For The Group/Discussion Page, not sure if it will be implemented, but it can get quite messy and so I think it shouldn't be inside People page, perhaps a different page, or just use the FB app for that cause there's also other things like fan page, your own page, etc.

N8 specs seems to mention that it's 16M colour but the resolution is low and also quite low ppi.

I believe it would come for Windows Phone, MS is pushing it plus Nokia and Rovio, both from Finland and has been in good terms? Previous Angry Bird's Party as example.

Well, that's what I've been saying too, Apple is bringing and MAINTAINING the users intelligence level at low level with the iPhone. When people are used to the simplicity WITH NO OPTIONS for advance features or move forward, they're STUCK at that level. When they see another TRUE REAL Smartphone, they think it's too complicated. Human nature, it's hard to change especially if they see something more complicated than their current.
BUT, most of the time, is it really so complicated?
Android is complicated, BUT, how complicated is it to get used to it? When people actually use it, they will eventually know most of it already in very short time and will start to feel, it's not so complicated afterall once you tried it, and will even starts to complaint about what is missing.
After all,... we all use Computers, there're more things than what smartphone can do or offer.

Another example is digital camera, usually we get a digital camera, we go, WOW so much function and this and that, I wouldn't know how to use this or that, I will just use AUTO mode; BUT, if one day we're free or we want to take some shot which the auto mode can't do, we will start to EXPLORE and go through the functions and features... eventually, we will know more about the digital camera... then we might look back and think, how did we even consider it complicated at first? It's just a matter to explore and going through it. Soon, we will find the drawback and what is lacking...
Imagine those that do reviews, especially those review videos in YouTube, they can pickup any phone or device and use it in no time, even if they're new to it, they just need sometime to explore and they will roughly know in and out. In short, basically, most of the things are the same, as long as you know the basics, you just need to know where to find and how to set certain things.
Just like phones, most of the features and functions are the same, it's just where to find it and how to set them, and what are the NEW and unique functions/features.

As for N900, not sure if you have used it. It was easy to left an impression to people, in fact, it was the what started to attract people's attention but the ads was misleading and the Nokia Store staff wasn't helpful and they themselves don't know or understand the product. All it need is just a little guide for the beginning to get familiar, but then the major drawback was, there's no 3G video calls, no MMS (3rd party available but the staff seems have no idea), etc. Basically, unless the person browse the internet or go through the forums, they will most likely be stuck with the lack of apps/games from OVI Store. Once they visit the forum, the N900 thread was very well organized with many guides (thanks to aspire sifu, and now handled by another sifu, superevilalien). There're tons of apps available, all for FREE, but not the usualy apps/games that were available on other smartphones tough. My cousins and few others who are not IT type person, they were also attracted by the N900, they were impress with the Desktop concept, the smoothness, multi-tasking, flash enabled browser, and so much (people use computers/notebook will most likely be impressed as this is really like a mobile computer) but, but I tell them the advantages and disadvantages; The disadvantages discouraged them as most people want apps and games, it's more important than anything else. In fact, most people just need a simple phone, that can do basic web surfing, play media files; the most important to them is the apps and games.
If you go through the N900 threads, you will see many types of users, even normal users who're not in IT field; they don't have problems customizing the phone. As I said, how complicated can it get? There's only so much (or actually, little) that you need to learn. All it takes it's just to explore and get familiar with the environment.

Every OS has it's characteristics, like I'm used to having apps with close option, but when I use iPhone, some or most of it, doesn't really have it? Most people are used to using the ONE button to rule them all. When using Windows Phone, I also face similar difficulties, you're relying on BACK button to exit, and how many times you need to back? If you're few levels inside an app, you need to back multiple times? What about web browser? Back is back to previous page or close? One needs to get familiar with using this. I'm still not comfortable with the back button, even though I've use Android for sometime. Sometimes you press back, when you're at the first page, it close the app for your which I didn't want to.
Personally, I don't find it simple, I find it confusing and inconvenient, the back button that is, but that's me. Symbian button can be back, cancel, or exit, depending on which page you're on. Maemo and MeeGo, it's also represented properly on the screen, and the best is you can easily access the multi-tasking windows and access/close each app easily.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 26 2012, 02:22 PM

I think no phone is for everyone, but more about how many types/category of user it can suit.

There will be people like different kind of product.
Windows Phone does give good impression to people, that is... until they found out the restrictions and limitations. Some can live with it, some don't while some will start to feel it later when they need it or when they get tease by people, etc. Depending on individual.
Some company, they don't allow installation of software, so no Zune, then they block websites, resulting in no access to these drives. Only left with email options.

Anyway, back to how many types/category of user it can suit.
Let's just assume majority Symbian users are interested with Windows Phone, which is a good thing for both Nokia and Microsoft. Let's say they can get at least 80% of these Customer to go for Windows Phone.
BUT the limitations and restrictions may reduce that percentage.
Now since they're planning to change, they have iOS, Android and Windows Phone. Which would they choose?
This is the MOST IMPORTANT time to get these customers, because once they switch, they will start to invest and explore on the new OS. Let's say iOS or Android, they may setup everything there and it'll harder for them to change next time.
IF they invest in apps/games on those platform, then it's even harder for them to change.
So, right now, it's actually the key turning point for Nokia since they adopted Windows Phone OS.
Hope they will push Microsoft on it, and gain back more % or chances of people to choose Windows Phone.

Those that have purchase Nokia N9, the future is still unclear and if there's need to change new device, it'll also be an important factor for Nokia to gain back these users.
Right now, Nokia N9 is still one of the device that help Nokia gain sale and also maintain its Customers. Whether they can make these Customers to switch to Windows Phone (how many %), it'll depends on Nokia and Microsoft.

Windows Phone does have potential, it has superb amazing deep comprehensive Social Networking Service (SNS) integration, it feels like a Social Network centric device (e.g. Facebook phone), it's smooth and have good stable browser. The implementation of Panorama style page makes it better for using the BACK button as you're always on 1st level, just press back once regardless which part of the page you're on, compared to Android, everytime you access a page, you go in deeper 1 level, to exit, you need to BACK until the 1st level first, then the BACK only works as exit/close.

Even if the implementation takes time, announcing it would be available in next version would help. Just hope Nokia will be able to push Microsoft or Microsoft will look into this and consider it.

Yes, MeeGo is unique and easily outbeat Android and iOS, it has the potential. What it's lacking is basically just on the applications and games (and the fact that it's ANNOUNCED being abandon before it's launch; weird right? Sounds fishy). Since it's Nokia own OS, they can easily enhance and add more things. Symbian user transition will be easier and it's an UPGRADE. Plus, from the response since last time, MeeGo has been positive, but Windows Phone has been negative since before it's launch. It may have gain other NEW comers who are into Windows Phone, but it's at the risk of loosing the old. If MeeGo 1st version is already so great, imagine the next version as they put in more flexibility, customization and so on.
But from my experience, management decision is no longer looking at low levels or entire picture, with many levels, they see statistics, market study, "marketing" and "presentation", "figures", not so much on the details anymore. That's why things changed and it's harder to meet customer's demand and needs. The people to do the market study, presents, etc must be well informed and knows every details, if not, most of the time, the result/outcome will be different.

I do agree very much on the multi-task view, it's the same like N900. N900 has not button in front screen, it's just like N9. Since it doesn't utilize swipe gesture, it always have a button on the top left on the screen (not hardware button). For those app/games that hides the button, you can use ctrl+backspace. The swipe gesture will be more simple and easy for most people, but for me, both has it's pros and cons; Sometimes swipe can be a disturbance when you didn't actually want to swipe, other than that, it's a very nice feature. When using Lumia 800, I keep double-tapping trying to unlock (natural behavior), and at time's try to swipe an application away; pressing and holding the back button is not so convenient, sometimes I pressed the windows button instead;
But the Metro Panorama UI for Windows Phone is a nice feature, putting everything in 1 level and we will be flicking/swiping left and right as well.

Anyway, I don't think Nokia will be going back to MeeGo; even if they want to later, I'm not sure if they can get back the team or gain back their trust, etc. Plus, it's not the first time already.

For Windows Phone, if to compare against Android and iOS. I do prefer Windows Phone, although it lacks flash; but overall, it's actually CAN BE better compared with the other 2, if only they remove the restrictions and limitations, reach out to more customers. Features and Functions can be added in later versions, but the restrictions and limitations is depending whether they want to open up or become like Apple.
Potential is there.

The one biggest suspicion is, because he's from Microsoft.

There're many weird reason:
1. Why need to drop other OS (somemore is homemade), why they can't be multi-platform?
2. MeeGo is drop because by end of 2011, only have 1 MeeGo device. But then, Windows Phone got difference? Only got 2 device only in 2011. They can have 2 MeeGo also device if they want. His reasons doesn't sound valid or make sense to me.
3. If need to adapt new OS, shouldn't they listen to Customers demand? What is most Customers been asking for?
Android. Android. Android. If Nokia have Android OS phone, they could potential grab quite a big part of the market? Many Symbian users switch to Android, imagine if Nokia have Android device, these people may still be using Nokia.
3.1 Those that switch to Android and have invest, etc. It's hard for them to change again. But IF Nokia have Android, they can easily switch back to Nokia, and Nokia can gain back their market of users.
4. If they (I mean Elop) want Windows Phone badly, They can still have Windows Phone, but why not go multi-platform as mentioned above. Even Samseng, HTC, etc also have Windows Phone, but comparing with Android, the sales is so much difference. But if you have both, you can decide which to produce more and remain in the business.
5. Why announce Symbian death and MeeGo death even before their Windows Phone is ready, and when they don't even know if their Windows Phone can sell, how the public will take it, how well it will do?
A simple theory is open 2 tap water, see which flows more; but his strategy seems, closing current tap water, while the new one still not ready and not sure if it can flow or not. Very confident.
Perhaps because Samseng, HTC, etc. they adapt the 2 tap water, seems Android tap water is flowing a lot, and Windows Phone is not really flowing, end up they produce and concentrate on Android.
Learning from this, they have to make sure the next one who take up Windows Phone, must put Windows Phone in priority. So... Nokia?

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 27 2012, 09:31 AM

After further testing, my previous findings were incorrect.
It will still put away the browser from multi-tasking window, but it's not killed, but just you can't see it in multi-tasking window, when you open up to 5 other apps. Previously I think I access the web browser (any tab) will do, it will bring the application to the latest accessed.

Previously, what I was told and know is, the multi-tasking will close the FIRST app you open, as in FIRST IN FIRST OUT concept. BUT I find out this was not the case, IF you access the FIRST app after you open 4 app, the FIRST app will be bring to then back. So, it should be the last access app will be put away first.
Another thing I notice, although the 6 tabs doesn't SEEM to contribute to how the maximum 5 apps you can open, actually it does. You can have 5 apps open including the browser and the browser having 6 tabs. But when you access another tab, it will put away the last accessed app to make room for the tab you're viewing.
Kinda confusing at first, but basically, the tabs are also not loaded until you access and in running in the multi-tasking window.

One more thing, I tried with Word and Excel mobile, edited the default doc, then try running more than 5 apps, the Word and Excel got put away. I re-open again the word and excel app, I notice the edited document is still there, it wasn't terminated. So, in a way, I think you can say it actually can save the state of more than 5 app, just that it only allows 5 app to be shown in the multi-tasking window, and possible these 5 apps with allowed background process? No real idea. Also not sure how long will it keep the state after being put away from multi-tasking Windows, as I read from MS site, if there's not enough memory, the app will be tombstoned, supposedly it means completely wipe away or does it still keep the state? Not sure, cause even after few days, and running many different test the IE tabs still there.
Anyway, if you restart the phone, then all these states will be gone, but IE tabs still preserve (e.g. those tabs that were left open), but the word and excel document edited half way will be gone. So, not really sure how long can Office documents state be keep after being put away from multi-tasking view.
UPDATE: After restart, it only preserve the tabs and thumbails, but if you access them, it will try to refresh. So, it doesn't preserve the page, unlike if you didn't restart, even if you've used many application and the IE has been put away, when you access IE, the page seems still available, but not sure for how long, maybe more memory intensive apps/games needed for testing.

Did you try indoor especialyl low light? Especially when the brightness go up. It's not just the downloaded video files, I first notice it from TRON trailer which were included, I notice the same on photos, you can see large pixels banding very obvious, and not just on blacks. When watching movies, those scenes with clouds or night scene, oh gosh, it's horrible. Example: "Salt" movie, the dark scene, it's totally horrible.
Even video recorded have this issue as most of the time, I record videos indoors in low light, poor/weak flourescent lighting, it's bad. Even during recording, you see the screen, it's bad, and I don't even have to hold it near to look. To me, it looks really bad.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 28 2012, 11:27 AM

It's for the review, which I kept modifying lol, but not the usual review. I'm not really suitable to write review or stuffs like that, but since it's required, I just write my own, about my findings, my opinion, rants, complaints and stuffs.

I've read that, but didn't go through in detail. Today, I read another blog which talks about how the developer can write its state permanent storage.
So, in theory, it's actually can support more than 5 apps as those apps not in the "mutli-tasking view" still have it's state preserve, just that it's not in the "multi-tasking view" (something like a limit of "recently app used list").
But I think the difference is, those app in multi-tasking view will have priority over being tombstoned and can have background service running? If the app is being remove from multi-tasking view, possibly the background service will no longer be allowed to run. Need to test it out first. The behavior is dependent on how the developer implement it.
But IE has something unique, it still continue to load in the background, so assuming it's process is running, if I leave it in multi-tasking view and didn't close it, it doesn't seems to consume battery or resources, unlike N9, which have true multi-tasking, the browser will actually consume resources. I assume Windows Phone, the IE will be in dormant state after finish loading.


Probably the brightness settings? Or the light sensor? When I send to Nokia Service Centre last time, we compare with another customer's N8, it's obvious mine were worst. But ding dong ding dong, there's nothing wrong with the device, which later I learn about the banding thing through more research.
Anyway, luckily it was not my primary device, so it doesn't really affect me, but that time I just want to know what's wrong and is it my device have problem; If it's the display, maybe Nokia can take note of it for their future device, if it's software related, maybe they can look into it. Only know it's banding issue, but didn't know was caused by display or software until your explanation, lol.

So, I think Nokia should take notice on this issue about the display.

Not done, when I pass the device around I also have no time to really explore so cannot really write, unless just a brief impression; but anyway, mine is really long (like a long story - "cheong hei"), lol, just as you can see how I type in forums, lol.


True, it depends the behavior of the application. For those application that will be permanently remove from memory, I notice it will stored its state into permanent storage, so when I resume, I got this "resuming..." screen. I forgot which app was that already. Overall, the memory management is good, and similar like Apple concept, the developer need to handle the behavior on their program and store the state, the OS will kill when it need memory. This way, the OS will have more stability as any problem, it's the app, the OS will not be affected.

Yea, IE seems to have special priority. Even I have nothing in my Multi-tasking window, the next day, I open IE, all my tabs is there, and the contents are still available (no internet connection). Only if I restart, it will clear of the content, but the tabs is still there with the thumbnails and address, when I access it, the it will tries to refresh.
They can apply this to their Office, if the document not yet been save, the OS can save as temporary file in permanent storage; so even after we restart the device or crash (somehow), everything will still be in tact, just like our desktop version office.

LoL! But during N8 time, when I notice this issue, I check with my colleague's Samsung Wave, there's no banding issue, his display was smooth and more clear. I guess the one on N8 might be older or also maybe due to the resolution?