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> Using lower-viscosity engine-oil in old engine, How to prevent white/blue smoke issue?

kEITh_22b
post Feb 1 2012, 03:09 AM, updated 6y ago

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Hi guys,


An engine-oil change will be due for my 20 year old car engine soon;

Currently, this old engine is using the Shell 15W - 40 Mineral engine-oil - (without having any white/blue smoke problems at all).

But for this coming engine-oil change, I am planning to go for the Shell 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic engine-oil; which has a lower-viscosity - (it will be a thinner engine-oil grade for this old engine).

I would like to put a lower-viscosity (thinner-grade) engine-oil into this old engine to improve it's fuel-efficiency & horsepower. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

However, I do not want to see any white/blue smoke issues pouring out from this engine after filling it with the lower-viscosity engine-oil...

So the thing is, what (the name of the components/parts) can I tell the mechanic to check/change inside this old engine - (that will minimize or eliminate the possibility of the white/blue smoke issue from happening?)


Your information/advice will be highly appreciated.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 1 2012, 03:13 AM
ultramaman
post Feb 1 2012, 03:38 AM

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tukar minyak dulu, see got white smoke or not. if you jaga the engine well, shouldnt be a problem..
because, to check /change inside the old engine would mean, at the minimun, a top haul ? at a maximun, an overhaul... ?


Added on February 1, 2012, 3:38 ambut im no sifu,, masih noob, masih mau belajar.. so do correct me if im wrong


This post has been edited by ultramaman: Feb 1 2012, 03:38 AM
dares
post Feb 1 2012, 10:10 AM

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Yea, try first then only you will know got problem or not. Even without smoke you will have to check your engine oil level regularly.
KIntos
post Feb 1 2012, 11:19 AM

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does your engine leak oil? although no blue or white smoke.

mechanic will just only check any leakage from your engine (oil seal,gasket, oil filter) and ask you monitor your engine oil after change to semi.

Once you changed, you need to monitor your engine oil level daily (for 2 week) then move to weekly and so on if you don't see oil level drop.
low yat 82
post Feb 1 2012, 12:48 PM

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if u really wann improve fuel effieciency n performance, better try 5w30 / 10w30..

if u change from 15w40 to 10w40, protection better? yes. performance? vry vry the tiny
Quazacolt
post Feb 1 2012, 01:47 PM

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i will say not much different other than the protection offered from semi synthetic upgrading from mineral.

in malaysia's hot weather, you can disregard the first value of the viscosity, just treat it as xw40, in which case, your viscosity is the same - 40
huakenny
post Feb 1 2012, 03:55 PM

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15w40 and 10w40 totally no different....

if 15w40 to 5w30 or 10w30 should have different in term of performance....but how well its going to protects ur 20yrs old engine...its in doubt
kEITh_22b
post Feb 2 2012, 12:18 AM

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QUOTE(ultramaman @ Feb 1 2012, 03:38 AM)
tukar minyak dulu, see got white smoke or not. if you jaga the engine well, shouldnt be a problem..
because, to check /change inside the old engine would mean, at the minimun, a top haul ? at a maximun, an overhaul...  ?


Added on February 1, 2012, 3:38 ambut im no sifu,,  masih noob, masih mau belajar.. so do correct me if im wrong
*
I reckon it is also not a good idea to let the mechanic open up this old engine to check here & there... I worried later need to end up doing a full-overhaul. ohmy.gif (Because now the engine is still running perfectly fine. nod.gif )

QUOTE(dares @ Feb 1 2012, 10:10 AM)
Yea, try first then only you will know got problem or not. Even without smoke you will have to check your engine oil level regularly.
*
Oh my, I've never been checking my engine oil level at all... (I'll keep it in mind to occasionally check from now on...)

QUOTE(KIntos @ Feb 1 2012, 11:19 AM)
does your engine leak oil? although no blue or white smoke.

mechanic will just only check any leakage from your engine (oil seal,gasket, oil filter) and ask you monitor your engine oil after change to semi.

Once you changed, you need to monitor your engine oil level daily (for 2 week) then move to weekly and so on if you don't see oil level drop.
*
So far, this old engine does not have any oil leaking problems at all, but I reckon I should start the practice of checking the oil level from time to time...

Will the mechanic have to open up the whole engine to check the "oil seal & gasket"? (Maybe this two components is something I can tell the mechanic to check/replace if necessary...)

QUOTE(low yat 82 @ Feb 1 2012, 12:48 PM)
if u really wann improve fuel effieciency n performance, better try 5w30 / 10w30..

if u change from 15w40 to 10w40, protection better? yes. performance? vry vry the tiny
*
But the issue with the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade is that it won't offer so much protection (as the 10W - 40 grade) when the engine (and the weather) gets hotter isn't it? (It will break down faster under higher-temperature & possibly cause sludge build-up isn't it?) unsure.gif

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 1 2012, 01:47 PM)
i will say not much different other than the protection offered from semi synthetic upgrading from mineral.

in malaysia's hot weather, you can disregard the first value of the viscosity, just treat it as xw40, in which case, your viscosity is the same - 40
*
But how come the mechanic (last time) advice me not to go down to 5W - 40 (a thinner oil grade) from my current 15W - 40 (a thicker oil grade), because he told me that the engine oil will start leaking (because it will be too "thin" for my old engine to handle...) unsure.gif

Hence, I don't think the 10W - 40 engine-oil is having the "same" viscosity-level as the 15W - 40 engine-oil (which will naturally still be the thicker oil)...

Correct me if I got it wrong...

QUOTE(huakenny @ Feb 1 2012, 03:55 PM)
15w40 and 10w40 totally no different....

if 15w40 to 5w30 or 10w30 should have different in term of performance....but how well its going to protects ur 20yrs old engine...its in doubt
*
Again, I still think that the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade is "thinner" than the 15W - 40 grade. (However, both engine-oil grades will be having the same "resilience-level" at high-temperatures.)

Again, I am worried that the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade will not be as good as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade in protecting my engine at higher-temperatures (hotter weather & longer idling in traffic-jams etc... as such.) Because it will break down faster than the 10W - 40 grade engine-oil... (I think...) hmm.gif

Now assuming there is a 10W - 60 engine-oil grade, it's viscosity-level will still be exactly the same as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade, but the 10W - 60 engine-oil grade will be having a significantly higher/better "resilience-level" at higher-temperatures (it will take longer for it to break-down under higher-temperatures - the oil will have a significantly better chance to last longer).

Correct me if I'm wrong. (I hope I am not confused...)

Thanks a lot to you guys BTW.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 12:27 AM
Quazacolt
post Feb 2 2012, 12:31 AM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 2 2012, 12:18 AM)
I reckon it is also not a good idea to let the mechanic open up this old engine to check here & there... I worried later need to end up doing a full-overhaul. ohmy.gif (Because now the engine is still running perfectly fine. nod.gif )
Oh my, I've never been checking my engine oil level at all... (I'll keep it in mind to occasionally check from now on...)
So far, this old engine does not have any oil leaking problems at all, but I reckon I should start the practice of checking the oil level from time to time...

Will the mechanic have to open up the whole engine to check the "oil seal & gasket"? (Maybe this two components is something I can tell the mechanic to check/replace if necessary...)
But the issue with the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade is that it won't offer so much protection (as the 10W - 40 grade) when the engine (and the weather) gets hotter isn't it? (It will break down faster under higher-temperature & possibly cause sludge build-up isn't it?) unsure.gif
But how come the mechanic (last time) advice me not to go down to 5W - 40 (a thinner oil grade) from my current 15W - 40 (a thicker oil grade), because he told me that the engine oil will start leaking (because it will be too "thin" for my old engine to handle...) unsure.gif

Hence, I don't think the 10W - 40 engine-oil is having the "same" viscosity-level as the 15W - 40 engine-oil (which will naturally still be the thicker oil)...

Correct me if I got it wrong...
Again, I still think that the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade is "thinner" than the 15W - 40 grade. (However, both engine-oil grades will be having the same "resilience-level" at high-temperatures.)

Again, I am worried that the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade will not be as good as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade in protecting my engine at higher-temperatures (hotter weather & longer idling in traffic-jams etc... as such.) Because it will break down faster than the 10W - 40 grade engine-oil... (I think...) hmm.gif

Now assuming there is a 10W - 60 engine-oil grade, it's viscosity-level will still be exactly the same as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade, but the 10W - 60 engine-oil grade will be having a significantly higher/better "resilience-level" at higher-temperatures (it will take longer for it to break-down under higher-temperatures - the oil will have a significantly better chance to last longer).

Correct me if I'm wrong. (I hope I am not confused...)

Thanks a lot to you guys BTW.
*
you can change mechanic then if he is even paying regards towards the xw viscosity value in our malaysian never freeze/winter weather.
kEITh_22b
post Feb 2 2012, 03:16 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 2 2012, 12:31 AM)
you can change mechanic then if he is even paying regards towards the xw viscosity value in our malaysian never freeze/winter weather.
*
Just out of curiosity, what will happen if I put the 0W - 50 engine-oil grade into my old engine? (According to articles, a 0W grade oil will pour like water, so I reckon my old engine will be able to take it, as it will be far too thin/watery... hmm.gif )

But are you saying that the "viscosity" of the engine-oil is determined not by the xW (0W/5W/10W/15W/20W) number, but instead, by the number after it (like the 30/40/50)?


BTW (I always noticed);

That 20W - 50 is always a (cheaper) mineral based engine-oil.

But 0W - 50 is always a (more expensive) "fully-synthetic" based engine-oil.

Why is that so?

hmm.gif

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 03:21 AM
Quazacolt
post Feb 2 2012, 03:25 AM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 2 2012, 03:16 AM)
Just out of curiosity, what will happen if I put the 0W - 50 engine-oil grade into my old engine? (According to articles, a 0W grade oil will pour like water, so I reckon my old engine will be able to take it, as it will be far too thin/watery... hmm.gif )

But are you saying that the "viscosity" of the engine-oil is determined not by the xW (0W/5W/10W/15W/20W) number, but instead, by the number after it (like the 30/40/50)?
BTW (I always noticed);

That 20W - 50 is always a (cheaper) mineral based engine-oil.

But 0W - 50 is always a (more expensive) "fully-synthetic" based engine-oil.

Why is that so?

hmm.gif
*
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. [B]The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades.
Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.
Note that the SAE has a separate viscosity rating system for gear, axle, and manual transmission oils, SAE J306, which should not be confused with engine oil viscosity. The higher numbers of a gear oil (e.g. 75W-140) do not mean that it has higher viscosity than an engine oil.[/B]

sauce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

Malaysia does not have winter.

=edit=
to your second edited question:

because mineral, semi synthetic, and full synthetic are completely different oil properties/blend, and thus priced differently. Additives, blending and ultimately branding determines the price of an engine oil. Thus you may encounter cheap/non-reputable brand fully synthetic can be cheaper or around the same price as a reputable/good branded semi synthetic oil, which may in most cases, out performs the cheap/non-reputable full synthetic oil.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Feb 2 2012, 03:27 AM
kEITh_22b
post Feb 2 2012, 04:13 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 2 2012, 03:25 AM)
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. [B]The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades.
Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.
Note that the SAE has a separate viscosity rating system for gear, axle, and manual transmission oils, SAE J306, which should not be confused with engine oil viscosity. The higher numbers of a gear oil (e.g. 75W-140) do not mean that it has higher viscosity than an engine oil.[/B]

sauce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

Malaysia does not have winter.

=edit=
to your second edited question:

because mineral, semi synthetic, and full synthetic are completely different oil properties/blend, and thus priced differently. Additives, blending and ultimately branding determines the price of an engine oil. Thus you may encounter cheap/non-reputable brand fully synthetic can be cheaper or around the same price as a reputable/good branded semi synthetic oil, which may in most cases, out performs the cheap/non-reputable full synthetic oil.
*
I'm not sure, but all of this is really quite confusing to me...

But generally, I always noticed that 20W - 50 is always the (cheaper) "mineral" based engine-oil that is always mentioned to be (too thick) and highly-recommended to be used in older car engines... hmm.gif

0W - 50 on the other hand is always the (more expensive) "fully-synthetic" engine-oil that is only recommended to be used in brand-new car engines... (because it is too thin to be used in older car engines...)

How true is that?

In addition, I have also never ever came across a 20W - 50 engine-oil that is "fully-synthetic" before... (Why isn't there any out there?)
And I have also never ever came across a 0W - 50 " engine-oil that is "mineral" based before... (Why is that so?)

I really don't know, but going for a lower second number such as the xW - 30 (like you said) will mean that my engine will have lesser protection at higher-temperatures..., as well as the engine-oil will also "break-down" faster and hence; need to be replaced faster (because of lower endurance/resilience to heat)... (Isn't it?)

But based on your information/theory; the 0W - 50 grade will be one heck of a super "thick" engine-oil isn't it? (I thought that the racing industry already no longer uses thick/super-thick engine-oils for their race vehicle's engines anymore... hmm.gif ) - I was informed that now a days all racing vehicles are using much thinner fully-synthetic based engine-oils (for a higher-performance), such as the 0W - 50/0W - 60 grade, that comes with the same high resistance/endurance to heat & sheer at high temperatures...


For example;

According to my understanding, an engine-oil with a grade of 0W -50 means that this particular oil is thin (super-thin), it flows very easily, but yet it also has the incredibly high resistance to heat & sheer at higher-temperatures; it will not break down easily, and is very ideal to be used in brand new high-performance racing engines...

This is what I understand, though I am still looking forward to the correct answer/information (if mine is really incorrect). I'm also definitely in to learn more. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 04:25 AM
Quazacolt
post Feb 2 2012, 04:18 AM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 2 2012, 04:13 AM)
I'm not sure, but all of this is really quite confusing to me...

But generally, I always noticed that 20W - 50 is always the (cheaper) "mineral" based engine-oil that is always mentioned to be (too thick) and highly-recommended to be used in older car engines... hmm.gif

0W - 50 on the other hand is always the (more expensive) "fully-synthetic" engine-oil that is only recommended to be used in brand-new car engines... (because it is too thin to be used in older car engines...)

How true is that?

In addition, I have also never ever came across a 20W - 50 engine-oil that is "fully-synthetic" before... (Why isn't there any out there?)
And I have also never ever came across a 0W - 50 " engine-oil that is "mineral" based before... (Why is that so?)

I really don't know, but going for a lower second number such as the xW - 30 (like you said) will mean that my engine will have lesser protection at higher-temperatures..., as well as the engine-oil will also "break-down" faster and hence; need to be replaced faster (because of lower endurance/resilience to heat)... (Isn't it?)

But based on your information/theory; the 0W - 50 grade will be one heck of a super "thick" engine-oil isn't it? (I thought that the racing industry already no longer uses thick/super-thick engine-oils for their race vehicle's engines anymore... hmm.gif ) - I was informed that now a days all racing vehicles are using much thinner fully-synthetic based engine-oils (for a higher-performance), such as the 0W - 50/0W - 60 grade, that comes with the same high resistance/endurance to heat & sheer at high temperatures...
*
before we all proceed to answer anything, i think it is best that you read up the wiki on how motor/engine oil works, and its ratings, SAE standards and additives.

and please do us all a favor and ignore the xw rating (10w50 20w50)
it will save you a lot of confusion, and a lot of effort from the rest in answering something that really serve no purpose.

unless of course you are planning to drive your car in the snow or really cold countries, then we can discuss further (which may be a lost cause since the majority of us doesn't do so and may not have the experience to help)
kEITh_22b
post Feb 2 2012, 04:44 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 2 2012, 04:18 AM)
before we all proceed to answer anything, i think it is best that you read up the wiki on how motor/engine oil works, and its ratings, SAE standards and additives.

and please do us all a favor and ignore the xw rating (10w50 20w50)
it will save you a lot of confusion, and a lot of effort from the rest in answering something that really serve no purpose.

unless of course you are planning to drive your car in the snow or really cold countries, then we can discuss further (which may be a lost cause since the majority of us doesn't do so and may not have the experience to help)
*
Nvm, I would put aside my doubts for now. icon_rolleyes.gif

It would be better to return back to the main topic for now (although further discussions on engine-oils will always be more than welcomed.);


So which engine-oil grade would you experienced guys in here recommend me to put inside my old engine for this coming service?

Currently I'm using the 15W - 40 Mineral-based.

But if I would like to have a higher engine performance, easier & less-damaging cold starts (without the need to warm up the engine for so long), and better fuel-efficiency; which engine-oil grade would you guys recommend me to use?

Is it xW - 30? (Or any other grades?)

Should I go for fully-synthetic?

I'll really appreciate your help/advice.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 04:56 AM
Quazacolt
post Feb 2 2012, 05:10 AM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 2 2012, 04:44 AM)
Nvm, I would put aside my doubts for now.  icon_rolleyes.gif

It would be better to return back to the main topic for now (although further discussions on engine-oils will always be more than welcomed.);
So which engine-oil grade would you experienced guys in here recommend me to put inside my old engine for this coming service?

Currently I'm using the 15W - 40 Mineral-based.

But if I would like to have a higher engine performance, easier & less-damaging cold starts (without the need to warm up the engine for so long), and better fuel-efficiency; which engine-oil grade would you guys recommend me to use?

Is it xW - 30? (Or any other grades?)

Should I go for fully-synthetic?

I'll really appreciate your help/advice.
*
what viscosity rating does your car engine specification says? do you have blue/white/or any color, be it rainbow color smoke coming out from your car currently?

and for a car as old as yours (20years old) i dont think its worth it to pour in full syn. good full syn oils are well over rm200 for 4liters. if you're feeling rich, you may proceed eitherway.
good semi syn are around rm100-130 for 4 liters.
kEITh_22b
post Feb 2 2012, 06:29 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 2 2012, 05:10 AM)
what viscosity rating does your car engine specification says? do you have blue/white/or any color, be it rainbow color smoke coming out from your car currently?

and for a car as old as yours (20years old) i dont think its worth it to pour in full syn. good full syn oils are well over rm200 for 4liters. if you're feeling rich, you may proceed eitherway.
good semi syn are around rm100-130 for 4 liters.
*
Sorry, I really have no idea what oil viscosity-rating does my car engine specs states, however, this engine has always been using the 20W - 50 mineral-based oil in the past.

There have not been any blue/white/other color smoke coming out from the exhaust-pipe so far.


I am still having the Shell 10W - 40 semi-synthetic oil in mind; also because of it's engine-cleansing quality advertised. (However, I am opened to your recommendations.)

But if I ever see a xW - 30 oil-grade from Shell, then I will be going for that instead of the above... (Because like you guys had said, the "30" denotes a thinner oil grade than "40" which will increase engine performance & fuel-efficiency...)


The other two engine-oil grades I have always been seeing from Shell (in stores & workshops) is the 15W - 40 Mineral (which I'm using currently), and the 5W - 40 Fully-Synthetic (which could be pointless for this old engine like you said...). Hence, I will select the 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic from Shell for this next oil change, but it would be good if you can also leave some of your recommendations in here, if you have any.

cool.gif

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 2 2012, 06:33 AM
Quazacolt
post Feb 2 2012, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 2 2012, 06:29 AM)
Sorry, I really have no idea what oil viscosity-rating does my car engine specs states, however, this engine has always been using the 20W - 50 mineral-based oil in the past.

There have not been any blue/white/other color smoke coming out from the exhaust-pipe so far.
I am still having the Shell 10W - 40 semi-synthetic oil in mind; also because of it's engine-cleansing quality advertised. (However, I am opened to your recommendations.)

But if I ever see a xW - 30 oil-grade from Shell, then I will be going for that instead of the above... (Because like you guys had said, the "30" denotes a thinner oil grade than "40" which will increase engine performance & fuel-efficiency...)
The other two engine-oil grades I have always been seeing from Shell (in stores & workshops) is the 15W - 40 Mineral (which I'm using currently), and the 5W - 40 Fully-Synthetic (which could be pointless for this old engine like you said...). Hence, I will select the 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic from Shell for this next oil change, but it would be good if you can also leave some of your recommendations in here, if you have any.
*
in very laymen terms, just think of the viscosity rating as how thin/thick the oil is. the lower the number the thinner, and like wise higher number = thicker.

ok so you have been using xw50 mineral based all the while right?
no color smoke or drain right?*
* - constant need to top up, by right, with good oil and good car/engine conditions you dont even need to top on every OCI, *AT MOST* maybe 1 time top up just to keep oil at optimal levels

if its yes to all the above, then give a try on xw40 semi synthetic (or xw30 if that fancies you). my personal recommendation is either liqui moly, or torco. more towards liqui moly considering your 20 years old car. (read up the oil review thread, or look up elton's liqui moly thread, can also view my posts only in said threads for my review/feedback)

shell semi synthetic isn't as good as advertise. however, it isn't bad either. more towards what you pay is what you get (LM/torco are much more expensive than shell per say)
huakenny
post Feb 2 2012, 11:20 AM

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may i know what car is that using 20yrs old++ engine?
kEITh_22b
post Feb 3 2012, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 2 2012, 11:03 AM)
in very laymen terms, just think of the viscosity rating as how thin/thick the oil is. the lower the number the thinner, and like wise higher number = thicker.

ok so you have been using xw50 mineral based all the while right?
no color smoke or drain right?*
* - constant need to top up, by right, with good oil and good car/engine conditions you dont even need to top on every OCI, *AT MOST* maybe 1 time top up just to keep oil at optimal levels

if its yes to all the above, then give a try on xw40 semi synthetic (or xw30 if that fancies you). my personal recommendation is either liqui moly, or torco. more towards liqui moly considering your 20 years old car. (read up the oil review thread, or look up elton's liqui moly thread, can also view my posts only in said threads for my review/feedback)

shell semi synthetic isn't as good as advertise. however, it isn't bad either. more towards what you pay is what you get (LM/torco are much more expensive than shell per say)
*
Quazacolt, thanks a lot.

However, I'm still in doubt as to whether the 0W - 50 engine-oil (from Mobil for example); is really a very "thin" or a "very-thick" engine-oil? unsure.gif (Because the way Mobil promotes & advertises it, is as if this oil is a very ultra "thin" super-grade engine-oil that can still 100% protect the engine and can also "withstand super high-temperatures" at the same time; which is very ideal for the high-performance/racing type engines as they say... hmm.gif ) They also mentioned that this 0W - 50 performance oil provides maximum fuel-efficiency... (Which seems to denote an engine-oil that is "thin"...)

But how is the above so-called "super-oil" different from the (much cheaper) 20W - 50 engine-oil grade (that I've always been using)? laugh.gif (Since in Malaysia's climate, the xW number in the front does not matters...?)


Added on February 3, 2012, 6:16 pm
QUOTE(huakenny @ Feb 2 2012, 11:20 AM)
may i know what car is that using 20yrs old++ engine?
*
Ford-Laser 1600cc (Carburetor) Manual 5-Speed Transmission. (A very durable engine with strong-torque.)

But I'm getting quite bored with this car now, so I have plans to go for a different car soon.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 3 2012, 06:16 PM
Deja Vu
post Feb 3 2012, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 1 2012, 03:09 AM)
Hi guys,
An engine-oil change will be due for my 20 year old car engine soon;

Currently, this old engine is using the Shell 15W - 40 Mineral engine-oil - (without having any white/blue smoke problems at all).

But for this coming engine-oil change, I am planning to go for the Shell 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic engine-oil; which has a lower-viscosity - (it will be a thinner engine-oil grade for this old engine).

I would like to put a lower-viscosity (thinner-grade) engine-oil into this old engine to improve it's fuel-efficiency & horsepower. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

However, I do not want to see any white/blue smoke issues pouring out from this engine after filling it with the lower-viscosity engine-oil...

So the thing is, what (the name of the components/parts) can I tell the mechanic to check/change inside this old engine - (that will minimize or eliminate the possibility of the white/blue smoke issue from happening?)
Your information/advice will be highly appreciated.
*
TS,
Personally, I dun see much significant difference of u switching over from 15W-40 to 10W-40 grade lubes mainly as explained in earlier posts tat d 1st rating is for winter n not applicable for our hotter climate. If u were to switch from lubes with different maximum viscosity limits (like my familys >20yr ol car previously on 20-50 mineral -> 15-40 semi-syn), then u'll should b able to notice d engine revving easier.

D main reason mechanics dun recommend thin lubes for older cars is coz d engine has suffered higher wear n hear n would require thicker oil for protection. Another common excuse is to prevent/minimize blow-bys since older blocks might have leaking seals allowing thinner oils tat evaporate easier to exit d blocks at d wrong places.

Quazacolt
post Feb 3 2012, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 3 2012, 06:05 PM)
Quazacolt, thanks a lot.

However, I'm still in doubt as to whether the 0W - 50 engine-oil (from Mobil for example); is really a very "thin" or a "very-thick" engine-oil? unsure.gif (Because the way Mobil promotes & advertises it, is as if this oil is a very ultra "thin" super-grade engine-oil that can still 100% protect the engine and can also "withstand super high-temperatures" at the same time; which is very ideal for the high-performance/racing type engines as they say... hmm.gif ) They also mentioned that this 0W - 50 performance oil provides maximum fuel-efficiency... (Which seems to  denote an engine-oil that is "thin"...)

But how is the above so-called "super-oil" different from the (much cheaper) 20W - 50 engine-oil grade (that I've always been using)? laugh.gif (Since in Malaysia's climate, the xW number in the front does not matters...?)


Added on February 3, 2012, 6:16 pm

Ford-Laser 1600cc (Carburetor) Manual 5-Speed Transmission. (A very durable engine with strong-torque.)

But I'm getting quite bored with this car now, so I have plans to go for a different car soon.
*
bro, please just ignore the xw value. the later value is 50, 50 means damn f***ing thick, means your engine will be sluggish in thick oil. as someone as explained, would you swim better in pool of sticky thick glue, or in pure clear water? higher number = thicker, lower number = thinner, in other words, 50 is thicker than 40, or 30

advertisement can claim/say WHATEVER they want, and it may or may not be the truth. if you feel like going with advertisements and go with mobil xw50, by all means, go ahead. your money, your call.

just FYI, racing oils like torco, on their full synthetic line up, their oil are as thin as xw20. you put in xw50 i think people would just laugh at you :/
think about it: if your engine performance is bad, and you require to step on the accelerator more to get the speed/power you need, do you think it will be fuel efficient?
kEITh_22b
post Feb 3 2012, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 3 2012, 06:24 PM)
bro, please just ignore the xw value. the later value is 50, 50 means damn f***ing thick, means your engine will be sluggish in thick oil. as someone as explained, would you swim better in pool of sticky thick glue, or in pure clear water? higher number = thicker, lower number = thinner, in other words, 50 is thicker than 40, or 30

advertisement can claim/say WHATEVER they want, and it may or may not be the truth. if you feel like going with advertisements and go with mobil xw50, by all means, go ahead. your money, your call.

just FYI, racing oils like torco, on their full synthetic line up, their oil are as thin as xw20. you put in xw50 i think people would just laugh at you :/
think about it: if your engine performance is bad, and you require to step on the accelerator more to get the speed/power you need, do you think it will be fuel efficient?
*
OK, thanks bro for dispatching the "correct" information.

I also reckon that I have not made a mistake by going for this current xW - 40 (thinner) engine-oil grade (from my previous 20W - 50 grade) in the last oil change. nod.gif

I also change engine-oil "rather frequently" BTW; at every three months. (Because I can't change oil by referring to my mileage meter because it goes up extremely quickly; in just one month, the meter would already have moved up to around 5000+ kilometers; when I have hardly even drove out the car to begin with...; Nobody uses this car except for me, and I always lock-up the only set of keys. laugh.gif )


Added on February 3, 2012, 6:46 pm
QUOTE(Deja Vu @ Feb 3 2012, 06:19 PM)
TS,
Personally, I dun see much significant difference of u switching over from 15W-40 to 10W-40 grade lubes mainly as explained in earlier posts tat d 1st rating is for winter n not applicable for our hotter climate. If u were to switch from lubes with different maximum viscosity limits (like my familys >20yr ol car previously on 20-50 mineral -> 15-40 semi-syn), then u'll should b able to notice d engine revving easier.

D main reason mechanics dun recommend thin lubes for older cars is coz d engine has suffered higher wear n hear n would require thicker oil for protection. Another common excuse is to prevent/minimize blow-bys since older blocks might have leaking seals allowing thinner oils tat evaporate easier to exit d blocks at d wrong places.
*
Thanks for the information & advice.

Yeah, it's true, all the mechanics always recommend the 20W - 50 engine-oil to be used for this old car's engine, but I don't think that this car's engine even need such a thick engine-oil grade... (It does not have oil leaking & white/blue smoke issue problems...)

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 3 2012, 06:52 PM
Quazacolt
post Feb 3 2012, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 3 2012, 06:43 PM)
OK, thanks bro for dispatching the "correct" information.

I also reckon that I have not made a mistake by going for this current xW - 40 (thinner) engine-oil grade (from my previous 20W - 50 grade) in the last oil change. nod.gif

I also change engine-oil "rather frequently" BTW; at every three months. (Because I can't change oil by referring to my mileage meter because it goes up extremely quickly; in just one month, the meter would already have moved up to around 5000+ kilometers; when I have hardly even drove out the car to begin with...; Nobody uses this car except for me, and I always lock-up the only set of keys. laugh.gif )


Added on February 3, 2012, 6:46 pm

Thanks for the information & advice.

Yeah, it's true, all the mechanics always recommend the 20W - 50 engine-oil to be used for this old car's engine, but I don't think that this car's engine even need such a thick engine-oil grade... (It does not have oil leaking & white/blue smoke issue problems...)
*
you will need to fix your speedometer.

also, it really depends on your engine condition. as previous posts also mentioned:

if you use thinner oil and facing higher engine oil drains (again, by right you shouldnt need to top up your oil, or *AT MOST* one time before OCI just to ensure oil levels are at optimal levels)

by optimal means not too much and not too little.

mechanics may or may not know your engine condition well, and would just recommend something safe, so in the event there are leaks/engine oil drip/colorful smokes as you have claimed (1 of the cause being engine oil slipped through the valves and combusted/burnt off which results in smoke that shouldn't be there) it won't be their fault for recommending unsuitable oil grades.

grades aside, full synthetic > semi synthetic > mineral
for such an old car, its recommended to use at most semi synthetic. it is not to say that you cannot use full synthetic, it's just that doing so would be a waste of money as the benefits/performance gain may be minimal as opposed to the price you have to pay. again, if you're rich, that is no problem and you can use w/e oil you damn well wish so.
kEITh_22b
post Feb 3 2012, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 3 2012, 06:58 PM)
you will need to fix your speedometer.

also, it really depends on your engine condition. as previous posts also mentioned:

if you use thinner oil and facing higher engine oil drains (again, by right you shouldnt need to top up your oil, or *AT MOST* one time before OCI just to ensure oil levels are at optimal levels)

by optimal means not too much and not too little.

mechanics may or may not know your engine condition well, and would just recommend something safe, so in the event there are leaks/engine oil drip/colorful smokes as you have claimed (1 of the cause being engine oil slipped through the valves and combusted/burnt off which results in smoke that shouldn't be there) it won't be their fault for recommending unsuitable oil grades.

grades aside, full synthetic > semi synthetic > mineral
for such an old car, its recommended to use at most semi synthetic. it is not to say that you cannot use full synthetic, it's just that doing so would be a waste of money as the benefits/performance gain may be minimal as opposed to the price you have to pay. again, if you're rich, that is no problem and you can use w/e oil you damn well wish so.
*
OK, thanks man. icon_rolleyes.gif

The very "only" times that white smoke ever does shoot out from my exhaust pipe is when I have sprayed the Carburetor-Cleaner solution into the carburetor's air-intake to clean it up nicely. (I do it once a week whenever I have drove the car out for at least 5 times, otherwise it will be done just once every two weeks...) The white-smoke will then completely disappear after a while.

However, whenever the weather get very cool at-night after a heavy-rain, some white-smoke usually does come out from the exhaust-pipe; but it usually stopped once the engine has fully warmed-up... (I usually wonder what caused it; although I have read that it is normally caused by water-vapors accumulated inside the exhaust pipe.)

BTW, for engine-revving above 3K to around 4K; which engine oil (type/grade) is generally suitable? (Because I always have the fear of revving my engine above 3K due to the fact that I do not think that my Mineral-based engine oil will be resilient enough to handle it...)
Quazacolt
post Feb 3 2012, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 3 2012, 07:23 PM)
OK, thanks man. icon_rolleyes.gif

The very "only" times that white smoke ever does shoot out from my exhaust pipe is when I have sprayed the Carburetor-Cleaner solution into the carburetor's air-intake to clean it up nicely. (I do it once a week whenever I have drove the car out for at least 5 times, otherwise it will be done just once every two weeks...) The white-smoke will then completely disappear after a while.

However, whenever the weather get very cool at-night after a heavy-rain, some white-smoke usually does come out from the exhaust-pipe; but it usually stopped once the engine has fully warmed-up... (I usually wonder what caused it; although I have read that it is normally caused by water-vapors accumulated inside the exhaust pipe.)

BTW, for engine-revving above 3K to around 4K; which engine oil (type/grade) is generally suitable? (Because I always have the fear of revving my engine above 3K due to the fact that I do not think that my Mineral-based engine oil will be resilient enough to handle it...)
*
i'm using liqui moly semi synthetic xw40 and i floor my pedal time to time revving 6-7k++ red lining on my 12+ years old proton iswara.

on my nissan sentra i also red line the car around 7k rpm with torco semi synthetic xw30, pickup is a ton faster being a year early 2007 japanese make car and using performance centric engine oil.
kEITh_22b
post Feb 3 2012, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 3 2012, 07:31 PM)
i'm using liqui moly semi synthetic xw40 and i floor my pedal time to time revving 6-7k++ red lining on my 12+ years old proton iswara.

on my nissan sentra i also red line the car around 7k rpm with torco semi synthetic xw30, pickup is a ton faster being a year early 2007 japanese make car and using performance centric engine oil.
*
Wow, you're just like my bro haha... (He also revs his engine past 5K RPM quite often, and he is using 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic engine oil...)

However, revving the engine is one thing (because it is easy to do it), but whether the engine-oil can handle it or not is another story... (It may break down faster & stop protecting your engine before the next oil change interval...) Which is what I fear...

I would like to rev my engine at-least to 3K+ RPM and still have the confidence that my engine-oil can take it, and it will not break down before time...

For this case, is Semi-Synthetic recommended over Mineral-based oil? (Would you recommend the xW - 30 grade, or is the xW - 40 grade going to offer more protection?)

Thanks.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 3 2012, 07:47 PM
Quazacolt
post Feb 3 2012, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 3 2012, 07:44 PM)
Wow, you're just like my bro haha... (He also revs his engine past 5K RPM quite often, and he is using 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic engine oil...)

However, revving the engine is one thing (because it is easy to do it), but whether the engine-oil can handle it or not is another story... (It may break down faster & stop protecting your engine before the next oil change interval...) Which is what I fear...

I would like to rev my engine at-least to 3K+ RPM and still have the confidence that my engine-oil can take it, and it will not break down before time...

For this case, is Semi-Synthetic recommended over Mineral-based oil? (Would you recommend the xW - 30 grade, or is the xW - 40 grade going to offer more protection?)

Thanks.
*
the performance of my car pre/post OCI isn't much difference. which means, the oil still maintains all its qualities. and i do OCI around 5-6k+ KM depending on my availability as i am using good quality SS oil.

and of course, semi-synthetic is recommended. good full synthetic is just too expensive and is just not worth it (imho)

viscosity grading depends on your car engine specifications/conditions. for my case, despite a complete overhaul bringing my engine to tip top condition with all its gaskets/seals replaced and all 12 valves replaces as well, i still stick with xw40 because my engine specifications requires xw50 oil. better not go too low/high from original specifications to be safe.

that said, you *CAN* give a shot to lower viscosities and so long you do not face oil drain/burnt off oils/smoke issues, you can stick to it despite of your original engine specifications.

another tip is that, *MOST* famous mainstream commercial engine oil (shell/castrol/mobil for example) simply do not offer the protection as well as performance/racing engine oil that are FAR LESS popular. (eg: liqui moly/torco/amsoil/redline/motul) they are of course a lot more expensive than mainstream commercial oil, and at the end of the day, what you pay, is what you get smile.gif
kEITh_22b
post Feb 3 2012, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 3 2012, 08:02 PM)
the performance of my car pre/post OCI isn't much difference. which means, the oil still maintains all its qualities. and i do OCI around 5-6k+ KM depending on my availability as i am using good quality SS oil.

and of course, semi-synthetic is recommended. good full synthetic is just too expensive and is just not worth it (imho)

viscosity grading depends on your car engine specifications/conditions. for my case, despite a complete overhaul bringing my engine to tip top condition with all its gaskets/seals replaced and all 12 valves replaces as well, i still stick with xw40 because my engine specifications requires xw50 oil. better not go too low/high from original specifications to be safe.

that said, you *CAN* give a shot to lower viscosities and so long you do not face oil drain/burnt off oils/smoke issues, you can stick to it despite of your original engine specifications.

another tip is that, *MOST* famous mainstream commercial engine oil (shell/castrol/mobil for example) simply do not offer the protection as well as performance/racing engine oil that are FAR LESS popular. (eg: liqui moly/torco/amsoil/redline/motul) they are of course a lot more expensive than mainstream commercial oil, and at the end of the day, what you pay, is what you get smile.gif
*
Interesting...

But there is a saying/tactic (I heard) that using a "cheaper" engine-oil & changing it more frequently (offers your engine a better protection); compared to using a "more expensive" engine oil & leaving it running inside your engine for an extended period of time... (This is because the addictive(s) inside the engine-oil will all break down at the same time regardless of being a Mineral or Fully-Synthetic oil grade...) Which means that the engine-cleansing addictive(s) inside a "fully-synthetic" Shell engine-oil (for example), will break down "earlier" than the engine-oil itself; so after the addictive(s) had "broken-down", the engine-oil will no longer have it's cleaning-properties anymore... (I wonder how true is this...)

Provided the above is really true, then I reckon it would just be a better idea for me to stick to a Mineral grade engine-oil isn't it? (With the exact same engine-cleaning properties) and just change it more frequently that's all (instead of using a more expensive semi-synthetic or fully-synthetic grade).

This is just my little concern/doubt left about going for a more-expensive engine-oil and letting it run inside the engine for longer... (And can the oil-filter also last as long?)


Anyway, if a semi-synthetic engine-oil can indeed provide me with a better protection during high engine revving (3K+ RPM), and will take longer to "deteriorate" (under constant use); then I will still go for it regardless... cool2.gif

BTW, where are those liqui moly/torco/amsoil/redline/motul engines-oils being sold? (I've never came across any of those oil brands in real-life before...)

Thanks a lot for all your information BTW.

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 3 2012, 11:20 PM
Quazacolt
post Feb 3 2012, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 3 2012, 11:12 PM)
Interesting...

But there is a saying/tactic (I heard) that using a "cheaper" engine-oil & changing it more frequently (offers your engine a better protection); compared to using a "more expensive" engine oil & leaving it running inside your engine for an extended period of time... (This is because the addictive(s) inside the engine-oil will all break down at the same time regardless of being a Mineral or Fully-Synthetic oil grade...) Which means that the engine-cleansing addictive(s) inside a "fully-synthetic" Shell engine-oil (for example), will break down "earlier" than the engine-oil itself; so after the addictive(s) had "broken-down", the engine-oil will no longer have it's cleaning-properties anymore... (I wonder how true is this...)

Provided the above is really true, then I reckon it would just be a better idea for me to stick to a Mineral grade engine-oil isn't it? (With the exact same engine-cleaning properties) and just change it more frequently that's all (instead of using a more expensive semi-synthetic or fully-synthetic grade).

This is just my little concern/doubt left about going for a more-expensive engine-oil and letting it run inside the engine for longer... (And can the oil-filter also last as long?)
Anyway, if a semi-synthetic engine-oil can indeed provide me with a better protection during high engine revving (3K+ RPM), and will take longer to "deteriorate" (under constant use); then I will still go for it regardless... cool2.gif

BTW, where are those liqui moly/torco/amsoil/redline/motul engines-oils being sold? (I've never came across any of those oil brands in real-life before...)

Thanks a lot for all your information BTW.
*
yes that is true.
however for more expensive/good oils, the concern of having extended OCI periods isnt so much the oil properties or its additives (such as cleansing agents) breaking down, its more towards carbon buildup. no matter how awesome your engine oil is, you will never be able to stop carbon buildup accumulating in your engine, hence some people prefer to just use cheaper oil, or stick to just semi syn instead of going full syn and OCI every 10k km or so.

of course, you can also use good engine oils, semi or full syn, and do 5k km OCI, for that maximum engine protection/performance smile.gif
there is a reason why in race setups, engines are completely rebuilt every race, using racing grade oil, and what not.

at the end of the day, its up to what you want, and what is your budget.

as for those good oils, you can either look around workshops that carries them (quite rare lol) or even LYN sellers. for instance, gagak84 (not entirely sure on his nick, you can definitely look up automotive garage trade section) carries torco, while thundergod_cid carries liqui moly (and im a frequent customer lol)
the workshop near my house also carries torco, and i buy from them for the nissan sentra OCI smile.gif

other brands i have not used so won't comment too much on them. nor do i know who sells them/where to buy.
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post Feb 4 2012, 03:02 AM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 1 2012, 03:09 AM)
Hi guys,
An engine-oil change will be due for my 20 year old car engine soon;

Currently, this old engine is using the Shell 15W - 40 Mineral engine-oil - (without having any white/blue smoke problems at all).

But for this coming engine-oil change, I am planning to go for the Shell 10W - 40 Semi-Synthetic engine-oil; which has a lower-viscosity - (it will be a thinner engine-oil grade for this old engine).

I would like to put a lower-viscosity (thinner-grade) engine-oil into this old engine to improve it's fuel-efficiency & horsepower. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

However, I do not want to see any white/blue smoke issues pouring out from this engine after filling it with the lower-viscosity engine-oil...

So the thing is, what (the name of the components/parts) can I tell the mechanic to check/change inside this old engine - (that will minimize or eliminate the possibility of the white/blue smoke issue from happening?)
Your information/advice will be highly appreciated.
*
bro, you normally rev not even past 3k rpm, of coz cannot see any white smoke. You should try rev till 5k or 6k and see if really there is no white smoke. Also check your exhaust muffler tip to see is it oily or totally dry with only the black carbon.

QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 2 2012, 12:18 AM)
I reckon it is also not a good idea to let the mechanic open up this old engine to check here & there... I worried later need to end up doing a full-overhaul. ohmy.gif (Because now the engine is still running perfectly fine. nod.gif )
Oh my, I've never been checking my engine oil level at all... (I'll keep it in mind to occasionally check from now on...)
So far, this old engine does not have any oil leaking problems at all, but I reckon I should start the practice of checking the oil level from time to time...

Will the mechanic have to open up the whole engine to check the "oil seal & gasket"? (Maybe this two components is something I can tell the mechanic to check/replace if necessary...)
But the issue with the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade is that it won't offer so much protection (as the 10W - 40 grade) when the engine (and the weather) gets hotter isn't it? (It will break down faster under higher-temperature & possibly cause sludge build-up isn't it?) unsure.gif
But how come the mechanic (last time) advice me not to go down to 5W - 40 (a thinner oil grade) from my current 15W - 40 (a thicker oil grade), because he told me that the engine oil will start leaking (because it will be too "thin" for my old engine to handle...) unsure.gif

Hence, I don't think the 10W - 40 engine-oil is having the "same" viscosity-level as the 15W - 40 engine-oil (which will naturally still be the thicker oil)...

Correct me if I got it wrong...
Again, I still think that the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade is "thinner" than the 15W - 40 grade. (However, both engine-oil grades will be having the same "resilience-level" at high-temperatures.)

Again, I am worried that the 10W - 30 engine-oil grade will not be as good as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade in protecting my engine at higher-temperatures (hotter weather & longer idling in traffic-jams etc... as such.) Because it will break down faster than the 10W - 40 grade engine-oil... (I think...) hmm.gif

Now assuming there is a 10W - 60 engine-oil grade, it's viscosity-level will still be exactly the same as the 10W - 40 engine-oil grade, but the 10W - 60 engine-oil grade will be having a significantly higher/better "resilience-level" at higher-temperatures (it will take longer for it to break-down under higher-temperatures - the oil will have a significantly better chance to last longer).

Correct me if I'm wrong. (I hope I am not confused...)

Thanks a lot to you guys BTW.
*
10w40 does not have the same viscosity with 15w40, "only when the oil is still not heated up". Once it is heated up to operating temperature, both have the same viscosity. So the foreman that never learn about oil will change viscosity when it is heated up of coz will say the oil is lighter/thicker,they just based it on the oil that came out from the bottle.

Your engine is quite old,some more I believe it's been many years since it is overhauled? There might be places that have gap / hole but it is patched by the sludge from all this time using mineral oil. Changing to semi synthetic and its cleaning agents might cleaned up these sludge and resulted in the oil sipping out from these gap / hole. Unless you prepare to do top overhaul or even full overhaul if this problem do arise, it is not recommended to change to semi or fully synthetic.

On the issue of using lower viscosity oil, ie. xW30. Your engine maybe is designed to run on higher engine temperature, changing to lower viscosity might result in the oil vaporize and also premature shearing, which make the viscosity even lower. And then there the risk of the oil unable to protect the engine efficiently due to lower viscosity. 20 years old engine, I'm sure the recommended viscosity is xW50, you can use xW40 since you also not always high revving the engine, but going for xW30 just seems too low.
kEITh_22b
post Feb 5 2012, 07:57 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Feb 3 2012, 11:46 PM)
yes that is true.
however for more expensive/good oils, the concern of having extended OCI periods isnt so much the oil properties or its additives (such as cleansing agents) breaking down, its more towards carbon buildup. no matter how awesome your engine oil is, you will never be able to stop carbon buildup accumulating in your engine, hence some people prefer to just use cheaper oil, or stick to just semi syn instead of going full syn and OCI every 10k km or so.

of course, you can also use good engine oils, semi or full syn, and do 5k km OCI, for that maximum engine protection/performance smile.gif
there is a reason why in race setups, engines are completely rebuilt every race, using racing grade oil, and what not.

at the end of the day, its up to what you want, and what is your budget.

as for those good oils, you can either look around workshops that carries them (quite rare lol) or even LYN sellers. for instance, gagak84 (not entirely sure on his nick, you can definitely look up automotive garage trade section) carries torco, while thundergod_cid carries liqui moly (and im a frequent customer lol)
the workshop near my house also carries torco, and i buy from them for the nissan sentra OCI smile.gif

other brands i have not used so won't comment too much on them. nor do i know who sells them/where to buy.
*
Thanks bro for the additional information...

I think carbon build-up sounds really bad to me...

I reckon (for now) I'll just stick to "cheaper" but "reputable" Mineral-based/or perhaps Semi-Synthetic engine-oils and change it every 3-months, or after 5000 kilometers (for the Mineral grade), and maybe after 7500 kilometers (for the SS grade)... Hmmm...

I also change engine-oil & gear-oils "rather frequently" I think... (So expensive oils might end-up getting rather wasted...)

But it is definitely beneficial to know about the higher-quality engine-oil brands out there - in the event/future that I should need it for using on another different type of car's engine or such.... (I also got to know from certain engine-oil articles that Amsoil really offers truly top-notch quality engine-oils... But getting hold of this brand in Malaysia is not going to be easy, it seems...)

I will try to look out for the other "non-mainstream" engine-oil brands out there, like the Liqui Moly & Torco (Though Redline does sounds really ideal for high RPM revving indeed.)

I also saw a Motul workshop nearby my area just now, maybe it will stock Motul brand oils.

QUOTE(xxboxx @ Feb 4 2012, 03:02 AM)
bro, you normally rev not even past 3k rpm, of coz cannot see any white smoke. You should try rev till 5k or 6k and see if really there is no white smoke. Also check your exhaust muffler tip to see is it oily or totally dry with only the black carbon.
10w40 does not have the same viscosity with 15w40, "only when the oil is still not heated up". Once it is heated up to operating temperature, both have the same viscosity. So the foreman that never learn about oil will change viscosity when it is heated up of coz will say the oil is lighter/thicker,they just based it on the oil that came out from the bottle.

Your engine is quite old,some more I believe it's been many years since it is overhauled? There might be places that have gap / hole but it is patched by the sludge from all this time using mineral oil. Changing to semi synthetic and its cleaning agents might cleaned up these sludge and resulted in the oil sipping out from these gap / hole. Unless you prepare to do top overhaul or even full overhaul if this problem do arise, it is not recommended to change to semi or fully synthetic.

On the issue of using lower viscosity oil, ie. xW30. Your engine maybe is designed to run on higher engine temperature, changing to lower viscosity might result in the oil vaporize and also premature shearing, which make the viscosity even lower. And then there the risk of the oil unable to protect the engine efficiently due to lower viscosity. 20 years old engine, I'm sure the recommended viscosity is xW50, you can use xW40 since you also not always high revving the engine, but going for xW30 just seems too low.
*
Thanks for the crucial advice & information contained in this post; it would be important to bear it in mind.

So far the exhaust pipe (interior) looks to be completely dry and not looking oily at all.

The engine has only been "top-overhauled" just once. (But this car was also rather under-utilized, because we had always been using our dad's company's car for almost every single occasions/events, including going up to Genting Highlands or driving up/down to Penang/Singapore... flex.gif ) This car had basically been "saved" from going through all those "hardships". ph34r.gif

But anyway, it certainly still looks like I may need to stick back to my current 15W - 40 Shell Mineral-oil for this upcoming service... (And it is going to be exactly the same thing... whistling.gif ) Normally I always look forward to trying out something new & "so-called" improved. nod.gif

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 5 2012, 07:59 AM
evilnickwong
post Feb 6 2012, 05:22 PM

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Some input from a fellow user of an old car. I have a 1991 BMW E30 318i, so also ~20 yrs old. Mileage is at 260,000+ km now.

I used to use semi synthetics like Magnatec 10w-40. The recommended viscosity for my engine at our temperatures is 50 btw. Ran fine, but also occasionally had white smoke from exhaust, and by the time I change oil every 7000km, the level would have dropped from full mark on dipstick to between min and halfway mark.

Anyway at some point a year or two back, I did a full engine overhaul due to other issues. Nowadays, I run full synthetic with no white smoke and absolutely zero change in oil level between changes. Am using Mobil 1 5w-50 at the moment as I believe modern synthetics do have an advantage over regular minerals/semi-syns.
Quazacolt
post Feb 6 2012, 09:10 PM

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http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2072678/+60

something you can refer to.
braindeath
post Feb 10 2012, 05:46 PM

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blue and white smoke indicate something about ur engine combustion......

i'm not pretty sure bout car engine and i forget what do white smoke indicate but blue smoke cause by an excessive lubricant during engine combustion

whether its cause by thicker or thinner lubricant i'm not sure
Quazacolt
post Feb 10 2012, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(braindeath @ Feb 10 2012, 05:46 PM)
blue and white smoke indicate something about ur engine combustion......

i'm not pretty sure bout car engine and i forget what do white smoke indicate but blue smoke cause by an excessive lubricant during engine combustion

whether its cause by thicker or thinner lubricant i'm not sure
*
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_would_your_engine_smoke
braindeath
post Feb 10 2012, 07:16 PM

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u r telling me i'm wrong or giving me the answer?

anyway thanks 4 the link...
Quazacolt
post Feb 10 2012, 07:53 PM

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QUOTE(braindeath @ Feb 10 2012, 07:16 PM)
u r telling me i'm wrong or giving me the answer?

anyway thanks 4 the link...
*
you said you're not sure, so i provide link.
braindeath
post Feb 10 2012, 09:01 PM

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owh, aite tq.....
junfu1988
post Feb 6 2015, 05:12 PM

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im having engine rod knocking noise and foreman say use thicker engine oil will solve that... is that true?
frankor
post Feb 26 2016, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(junfu1988 @ Feb 6 2015, 05:12 PM)
im having engine rod knocking noise and foreman say use thicker engine oil will solve that... is that true?
*
May I know what car you are driving?

If use Petron Blaze Ron 95 it will reduce knocking tremendously.

On the other hand if your car is using old Japanese engine (80s to 90s JDM type) than you may wish to give a try to Caltex Techron Ron 95.

If either Petron Blaze Ron 95 and Caltex Techron Ron 95 cannot solve your knocking problem then you may need to use Ron 97 petrol.

I believe (maybe I am wrong) it has nothing to do with thinner or thicker engine oil.

I owned 2 modded cars one is Satria with Mivec engine and the other Accord with H22A engine which both are high compression engine and it was suppose to to use higher Ron petrol eg Ron 97.

My Satria is currently filled with Caltex Techron Ron 95 and the engine oil is Hi-Rev 15W-50 (Semi Synthetic) so far so good no knocking but it need to change engine oil at 4,000 km interval.

As for the Honda is currently filled with Petron Blaze Ron 95 and the engine oil is Qmax 5W-50 (Fully Synthetic) so far there is no knocking and the engine oil will never dry-up or evaporate therefore I only change the oil at 8,000 km interval.

Pls see file attachment of the pics of the engine oils that I am using for my Satria and Honda.


thumbup.gif







Attached File(s)
Attached File  Lowyat_Hirev_Qmax.doc ( 325k ) Number of downloads: 7
Zot
post Feb 26 2016, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(junfu1988 @ Feb 6 2015, 05:12 PM)
im having engine rod knocking noise and foreman say use thicker engine oil will solve that... is that true?
*
I concur with francor. There are few causes of knocking

http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html
TOMEI-R
post Feb 26 2016, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(frankor @ Feb 26 2016, 10:31 AM)
May I know what car you are driving?

If use Petron Blaze Ron 95 it will reduce knocking tremendously.

On the other hand if your car is using old Japanese engine (80s to 90s JDM type) than you may wish to give a try to Caltex Techron Ron 95.

If either Petron Blaze Ron 95 and Caltex Techron Ron 95 cannot solve your knocking problem then you may need to use Ron 97 petrol.

I believe (maybe I am wrong) it has nothing to do with thinner or thicker engine oil.

I owned 2 modded cars one is Satria with Mivec engine and the other Accord with H22A engine which both are high compression engine and it was suppose to  to use higher Ron petrol eg Ron 97.

My Satria is currently filled with  Caltex Techron Ron 95 and the engine oil is Hi-Rev 15W-50 (Semi Synthetic) so far so good no knocking but it need to change engine oil at 4,000 km interval.

As for the Honda is currently filled with Petron Blaze Ron 95 and the engine oil is Qmax 5W-50 (Fully Synthetic) so far there is no knocking and the engine oil will never dry-up or evaporate therefore I only change the  oil at 8,000 km interval.

Pls see file attachment of the pics of the engine oils that I am using for my Satria and Honda.
thumbup.gif
*
I concur to that. We have to admit it, for high compression engines like the honda B, H, F and K series, you would definately feel the difference on using 97 Ron engines. Lesser so for non performance cars. The feel would be different in terms of knocking (as discussed), a more smooter and quieter engine and better performance. My friends on the K series type R engines swear by Caltex Ron95. They said that the Caltex 95 is the best alternative when there is no Ron97. I am a ardent supporter of Shell fuel but whenever I pumped Shell Fuelsave 95 on my SSS, the engine knocks. So after recommendation of my friends, I tried fuelling up with Caltex 95 and it does make a lot of difference. There is still knocking, but much much lesser compared to Shell 95. Only issue is there are not many Caltex stations to begin with. I have not tried Petron yet. Maybe I should try once and see if there is any difference.
frankor
post Feb 26 2016, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(TOMEI-R @ Feb 26 2016, 10:50 AM)
I concur to that. We have to admit it, for high compression engines like the honda B, H, F and K series, you would definately feel the difference on using 97 Ron engines. Lesser so for non performance cars. The feel would be different in terms of knocking (as discussed), a more smooter and quieter engine and better performance. My friends on the K series type R engines swear by Caltex Ron95. They said that the Caltex 95 is the best alternative when there is no Ron97. I am a ardent supporter of Shell fuel but whenever I pumped Shell Fuelsave 95 on my SSS, the engine knocks. So after recommendation of my friends, I tried fuelling up with Caltex 95 and it does make a lot of difference. There is still knocking, but much much lesser compared to Shell 95. Only issue is there are not many Caltex stations to begin with. I have not tried Petron yet. Maybe I should try once and see if there is any difference.
*
If you wish to pump Caltex Ron 95 (by using credit card) pls avoid Caltex (LDP) heading to Sungai Buloh/Kepong after the toll because there is a word "ofline" appeared in the receipt of the credit card transaction.

I wonder whether the points earned via Caltex Journey card will be recorded or accounted.

The problem with Caltex Journey card it will not shows the total points you earned after each pump.

If any of the forumer here is attached to Caltex pls bring this issue up to the Management.

icon_question.gif
junfu1988
post Feb 26 2016, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(frankor @ Feb 26 2016, 10:31 AM)
May I know what car you are driving?

If use Petron Blaze Ron 95 it will reduce knocking tremendously.

On the other hand if your car is using old Japanese engine (80s to 90s JDM type) than you may wish to give a try to Caltex Techron Ron 95.

If either Petron Blaze Ron 95 and Caltex Techron Ron 95 cannot solve your knocking problem then you may need to use Ron 97 petrol.

I believe (maybe I am wrong) it has nothing to do with thinner or thicker engine oil.

I owned 2 modded cars one is Satria with Mivec engine and the other Accord with H22A engine which both are high compression engine and it was suppose to  to use higher Ron petrol eg Ron 97.

My Satria is currently filled with  Caltex Techron Ron 95 and the engine oil is Hi-Rev 15W-50 (Semi Synthetic) so far so good no knocking but it need to change engine oil at 4,000 km interval.

As for the Honda is currently filled with Petron Blaze Ron 95 and the engine oil is Qmax 5W-50 (Fully Synthetic) so far there is no knocking and the engine oil will never dry-up or evaporate therefore I only change the  oil at 8,000 km interval.

Pls see file attachment of the pics of the engine oils that I am using for my Satria and Honda.
thumbup.gif
*
Im driving an old toyota altis 06. the knocking is more like low pitch dek,dek,dek,dek that the the ratio increase due to heavier pedal. i assume it call engine whining sound.
TOMEI-R
post Feb 26 2016, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(junfu1988 @ Feb 26 2016, 05:17 PM)
Im driving an old toyota altis 06. the knocking is more like low pitch dek,dek,dek,dek that the the ratio increase due to heavier pedal. i assume it call engine whining sound.
*
Its called engine knocking or engine pinking. nod.gif
TOMEI-R
post Feb 26 2016, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(frankor @ Feb 26 2016, 02:47 PM)
If you wish to pump Caltex Ron 95 (by using credit card) pls avoid Caltex (LDP) heading to Sungai Buloh/Kepong after the toll because there is a word "ofline" appeared in the receipt of the credit card transaction.

I wonder whether the points earned via Caltex Journey card will be recorded or accounted.

The problem with Caltex Journey card it will not shows the total points you earned after each pump.

If any of the forumer here is attached to Caltex pls bring this issue up to the Management.

icon_question.gif
*
QUOTE(junfu1988 @ Feb 26 2016, 05:17 PM)
Im driving an old toyota altis 06. the knocking is more like low pitch dek,dek,dek,dek that the the ratio increase due to heavier pedal. i assume it call engine whining sound.
*
Im more worried about the fuel quality as different stations have different fuel qualities. You know what Im trying to say. whistling.gif
frankor
post Feb 27 2016, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(junfu1988 @ Feb 26 2016, 05:17 PM)
Im driving an old toyota altis 06. the knocking is more like low pitch dek,dek,dek,dek that the the ratio increase due to heavier pedal. i assume it call engine whining sound.
*
I may be wrong and it look like the sound is not engine knocking or pinging but is either the ignition coil is mal-functioning or you are using the wrong spark plugs.

thumbup.gif

khairilyazit
post Feb 27 2016, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(kEITh_22b @ Feb 2 2012, 04:13 AM)
I'm not sure, but all of this is really quite confusing to me...

But generally, I always noticed that 20W - 50 is always the (cheaper) "mineral" based engine-oil that is always mentioned to be (too thick) and highly-recommended to be used in older car engines... hmm.gif

0W - 50 on the other hand is always the (more expensive) "fully-synthetic" engine-oil that is only recommended to be used in brand-new car engines... (because it is too thin to be used in older car engines...)

How true is that?

In addition, I have also never ever came across a 20W - 50 engine-oil that is "fully-synthetic" before... (Why isn't there any out there?)
And I have also never ever came across a 0W - 50 " engine-oil that is "mineral" based before... (Why is that so?)

I really don't know, but going for a lower second number such as the xW - 30 (like you said) will mean that my engine will have lesser protection at higher-temperatures..., as well as the engine-oil will also "break-down" faster and hence; need to be replaced faster (because of lower endurance/resilience to heat)... (Isn't it?)

But based on your information/theory; the 0W - 50 grade will be one heck of a super "thick" engine-oil isn't it? (I thought that the racing industry already no longer uses thick/super-thick engine-oils for their race vehicle's engines anymore... hmm.gif ) - I was informed that now a days all racing vehicles are using much thinner fully-synthetic based engine-oils (for a higher-performance), such as the 0W - 50/0W - 60 grade, that comes with the same high resistance/endurance to heat & sheer at high temperatures...
For example;

According to my understanding, an engine-oil with a grade of 0W -50 means that this particular oil is thin (super-thin), it flows very easily, but yet it also has the incredibly high resistance to heat & sheer at higher-temperatures; it will not break down easily, and is very ideal to be used in brand new high-performance racing engines...

This is what I understand, though I am still looking forward to the correct answer/information (if mine is really incorrect). I'm also definitely in to learn more. icon_rolleyes.gif
*
The Petronas Syntium 1000 is a Fully Synthetic 15w50 engine oil.
frankor
post Mar 1 2016, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(khairilyazit @ Feb 27 2016, 06:00 PM)
The Petronas Syntium 1000 is a Fully Synthetic 15w50 engine oil.
*
I wish to share about Petronas Syntium 1000 Fully-Synthetic (15W-50) and Petronas newer engine oil Syntium 300 Cool Tech (5W-40).

I have a Suprima (apart from Satria and Accord) and every morning I will warm up the engine until the temprature reaches 3 levels/bars in the speedometer before I drive the car.

Surprisingly when I used Syntium 1000 (15W-50) the car will reached 3 bars quicker as compared to Syntium 3000 (5W-40).

In short, my view (maybe I am wrong) that Syntium 3000 can take better heat than Syntium 1000.


cool2.gif

khairilyazit
post Mar 1 2016, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(frankor @ Mar 1 2016, 05:00 PM)
I wish to share about Petronas Syntium 1000 Fully-Synthetic (15W-50) and  Petronas newer engine oil Syntium 300 Cool Tech (5W-40).

I have a Suprima (apart from Satria and Accord) and every morning I will warm up the engine until the temprature reaches 3 levels/bars in the speedometer before I drive the car.

Surprisingly when I used Syntium 1000 (15W-50) the car will  reached 3 bars quicker as compared to Syntium 3000 (5W-40).

In short, my view (maybe I am wrong) that Syntium 3000 can take better heat than Syntium 1000.
cool2.gif
*
Welcome to the club man..
Suprima owner here too..

Never bothered to warmup the engine...
Only drove slowly until it warms up on its own, then only i gun it..

The Syntium 1000 is more viscous/pekat at the same temp..

This post has been edited by khairilyazit: Mar 1 2016, 05:20 PM
chemistry
post Mar 1 2016, 08:59 PM

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QUOTE(frankor @ Mar 1 2016, 05:00 PM)
I wish to share about Petronas Syntium 1000 Fully-Synthetic (15W-50) and  Petronas newer engine oil Syntium 300 Cool Tech (5W-40).

I have a Suprima (apart from Satria and Accord) and every morning I will warm up the engine until the temprature reaches 3 levels/bars in the speedometer before I drive the car.

Surprisingly when I used Syntium 1000 (15W-50) the car will  reached 3 bars quicker as compared to Syntium 3000 (5W-40).

In short, my view (maybe I am wrong) that Syntium 3000 can take better heat than Syntium 1000.
cool2.gif
*
15W50 eo impose more drag compared to less viscous 5w40 eo, hence temperature rise faster.

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