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 Lawyer's Corner v2, One-stop centre for any legal queries

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irise.ufall
post Feb 29 2012, 08:42 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Feb 29 2012, 12:09 AM)
If the lawyer runs away with the money, he'll surely run away with the balance purchase price, not just your 25k. As such, if anyone is going to sue him, it's going to be the vendor. So the vendor is suing for your 25k also then. If the worst case scenario happens, that is.

I asked if you have paid their legal fees. So, have you?
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Hi Sifu Dario, so far i hv paid around RM6k (including the stamp duty for MOT) if i m not mistaken. (My purchased price is RM230k)

I did send email (c.c.'ed to my loan solicitor) and ask them whether i still need to pay any money. They confirmed in their email that there is no outstanding payment from my side.

May i know what should i do?

The Vendor is the lawyer's fren. This thing has been dragging for so long bcoz the SPA lawyer is helping the Vendor to save from the rental. My loan solicitor called them to ask for the original strata title 2 days ago but SPA lawyer said it is still under the Developer's lawyer's custody. Is it common? rclxub.gif
jimme
post Feb 29 2012, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Feb 28 2012, 12:47 PM)
The bank would normally reply between 5-10 working days. How long it takes to finish is hard to say. You might want to check with your lawyer on this.

Basically the flow is like this:
1. The vendor's bank issues redemption STATEMENT;
2. Your loan lawyer prepares all the documents and advises your bank to release the redemption sum.
3. Your bank has to issue the cheque for the redemption sum.
4. Your SPA lawyer passes the cheque and the discharge of charge [DOC] to the vendor's bank.
5. Vendor's bank executes DOC and returns it with original title, etc.
6. Your SPA lawyer dates memorandum of transfer [MOT] and submits it for adjudication.
7. LHDN will issue notice of stamp duty to be paid upon MOT.
8. SPA lawyer pays stamp duty and gets MOT stamped. DOC is also stamped with nominal stamp duty.
9. SPA lawyer hands over registration fees, DOC, MOT and other original documents to loan lawyer.
10. Loan lawyer presents DOC, MOT and charge in favour of your bank at the land office.
11. With presentation receipt and other ori docs, your loan lawyer advises bank to release final drawdown.
12. Bank release cheque for final drawdown.
13. SPA lawyer hands it to vendor, and keys are exchanged together with apportionment of outgoings - end of transaction.

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Hi Dario,

where is the preocedure that need to get consent (from land office/or majlis perbandaran?) before 3+1 months of completion date stated on SPA? Thanks.
TSdariofoo
post Feb 29 2012, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(jimme @ Feb 29 2012, 09:59 AM)
Hi Dario,

where is the preocedure that need to get consent (from land office/or majlis perbandaran?) before 3+1 months of completion date stated on SPA?  Thanks.
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That would've been done earlier. Once consent has been obtained, only then do you start the necessary with the loan documentation. By this stage, surely consent would've been obtained by now. nod.gif
SUSUFO-ET
post Feb 29 2012, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Jan 7 2012, 11:52 PM)
You need to abide by the terms of the SPA which both parties have signed. Look at the time given to the vendor to comply with the transfer of ownership of the other half-share. 6 months? 9? Until then, you can't fault him at all. You ought to be aware when you're buying this particular property that it is not the run-of-the-mill transaction and that it may be delayed.  So, do be patient.

With regard to your statement that the owner has 10% and thus, it would benefit him more to delay the process - that is an incorrect statement. The longer the delay, the more detrimental it is to the vendor as the price of the property may appreciate, and he can't do anything about it. Add in inflation and you'll see that the vendor has no reason to delay things. He would definitely want to use the balance 90% for other matters as well.

If you're confused about the whole process then it's time to speak your lawyer directly and find out the latest status and also the flow of proceedings. Some enlightenment would be useful, as you're a first time buyer. Good luck.

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TSdariofoo
post Feb 29 2012, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(irise.ufall @ Feb 29 2012, 08:42 AM)
Hi Sifu Dario, so far i hv paid around RM6k (including the stamp duty for MOT) if i m not mistaken. (My purchased price is RM230k)
I see. Ok at least you've been fair and paid them their dues. But you're looking at another RM2k plus at least if you want to switch lawyers at this last stage.

QUOTE(irise.ufall @ Feb 29 2012, 08:42 AM)
The Vendor is the lawyer's fren. This thing has been dragging for so long bcoz the SPA lawyer is helping the Vendor to save from the rental.


That is the problem when a purchaser appoints a lawyer recommended by the vendor. There would "indirectly" be a conflict of interest. Although on paper the lawyer is acting for you, indirectly he is assisting the vendor by delaying things. Extremely unprofessional of the lawyer.

Of course if the unit is vacant, the vendor does not profit. When you say "helping the vendor to save from the rental" - are you saying that the unit is tenanted and the vendor is collecting rental as the SPA drags on? hmm.gif

With regard to the strata title - the original ought to be with the vendor's bank as a security (assuming that there is a loan). Otherwise, it ought to be kept by the vendor directly. I'm not sure why the developer would be holding it. That is not common.
doublef
post Feb 29 2012, 12:11 PM

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If i got a land, and i rent it, if the person who rent my land did not pay, what a the step to do?

aggrement made in dec 2008 for 3 years. the rental pay rental normal until november 2010, the rental did not pay for 6 month. and he pay for mei 2011, and i make the letter to get the money. then his wife take over his business and pay monthly rent for mei 2011 until now, she also pay extra 1 month.

now i appoint 1 letter to give he 3 month to pay 5 month rent and normal monthly rent.

what i want to know is what is the step if he/she did not pay? police report or court letter or just seal the premise? the step.

thank you in advance
irise.ufall
post Feb 29 2012, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Feb 29 2012, 11:06 AM)
I see. Ok at least you've been fair and paid them their dues. But you're looking at another RM2k plus at least if you want to switch lawyers at this last stage.
That is the problem when a purchaser appoints a lawyer recommended by the vendor. There would "indirectly" be a conflict of interest. Although on paper the lawyer is acting for you, indirectly he is assisting the vendor by delaying things. Extremely unprofessional of the lawyer.

Of course if the unit is vacant, the vendor does not profit. When you say "helping the vendor to save from the rental" - are you saying that the unit is tenanted and the vendor is collecting rental as the SPA drags on?  hmm.gif

With regard to the strata title - the original ought to be with the vendor's bank as a security (assuming that there is a loan). Otherwise, it ought to be kept by the vendor directly. I'm not sure why the developer would be holding it. That is not common.
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Hi Sifu, the Vendor is still staying in the unit. They ask me to rent the unit to them 1st even after they hav handed over the keys to me.

The Vendor sms'ed me about 2-3 weeks ago and told me that they hv bought a house but they can only get the house 5-6 mths later.

Fyi, they hv even accused me for causing them (and their childrens) to be so worried that they would hv no place to stay after handed over the keys to me. rclxub.gif

I am serving the interest to the bank close to RM500/mth. Tomorrow is the 2nd month oledi.

They are staying there for free and at my side i hv to keep paying for the interest every month. moneyflies.gif

Even my loan solicitor is so frustrated to deal with them.

Layman like me is surely frustrated, but i hv never been unfair to anybody. notworthy.gif
it.fusion
post Feb 29 2012, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Feb 29 2012, 10:35 AM)
That would've been done earlier. Once consent has been obtained, only then do you start the necessary with the loan documentation. By this stage, surely consent would've been obtained by now.  nod.gif
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Consent from land office are done by S&P or Loan Lawyer ?
I am in doubt that my S&P lawyer had did that since there is no chapter of this earlier...

this can be done also during land title name change ?


one more thing.... the agent told me earlier that the unit i am purchasing are never been rented out.. but i came to know that the unit are now stayed by vendor's fren from oversea till another 2 months.. Question is, once the land title are changed to me can i request the vendor fren to move out ? and if not, pay for rental from then on ?

thanks sifu icon_rolleyes.gif


Added on February 29, 2012, 2:17 pm
QUOTE(dariofoo @ Feb 29 2012, 10:35 AM)
That would've been done earlier. Once consent has been obtained, only then do you start the necessary with the loan documentation. By this stage, surely consent would've been obtained by now.  nod.gif
*
Consent from land office are done by S&P or Loan Lawyer ?
I am in doubt that my S&P lawyer had did that since there is no chapter of this earlier...

this can be done also during land title name change ?


one more thing.... the agent told me earlier that the unit i am purchasing are never been rented out.. but i came to know that the unit are now stayed by vendor's fren from oversea till another 2 months.. Question is, once the land title are changed to me can i request the vendor fren to move out ? and if not, pay for rental from then on ?

thanks sifu icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by it.fusion: Feb 29 2012, 02:17 PM
rave7575
post Feb 29 2012, 02:33 PM

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guys...

my brother have a problem..he has a new house which initially wana sell off...found a agent and a buy ready...my bother issue offer letter den the buyer sign ready...but have yet to sign the s&p agreement. now my brother change is mind don't want sell due to some financial reason. so what is the legal implication and how to move forward to cancel the agreement?

please advise..thank you so much
karfei00
post Feb 29 2012, 04:44 PM

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may i know for a typical sub sale transaction, should i find a lawyer to do SPA first or go apply loan first? my case is bank need to look at the title but vendor refuse to give it directly to me, vendor ask me to get from him via a lawyer but i do not have one

This post has been edited by karfei00: Feb 29 2012, 04:47 PM
MR_alien
post Feb 29 2012, 05:17 PM

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my case is like this
dad leave a will and need lawyers to transfer to name to new owner(its an apartment)
my question is...lawyers charge based on the hours they used to do the things or they charged based on the value of the house?
the lawyer that we appointed say they charged us based on the value of the apartment...and it doesn't make sense to me since procedure is same
if someone's hse is 2-3 million ringgit thn who knows how much would they charge
they charge us RM6k + 6% service tax + advertising fee = RM6000++
and whats funny is...thats only the phase 1 charges(high court thingy + advertising fee + service tax)
there is another phase he said is the transfer ownership thingy that would cost another few thousand
want to ask those that know well....is these all reasonable?..or hes overcharging us?

location...sabah

This post has been edited by MR_alien: Feb 29 2012, 05:18 PM
Seremban_2
post Feb 29 2012, 05:51 PM

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QUOTE(karfei00 @ Feb 29 2012, 04:44 PM)
may i know for a typical sub sale transaction, should i find a lawyer to do SPA first or go apply loan first? my case is bank need to look at the title but vendor refuse to give it directly to me, vendor ask me to get from him via a lawyer but i do not have one
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Your answer is at post 478 and post 525.Read from post 470 onwards and it will help you.

You can ask the vendor give you a photostate copy of title or get Property Title No to do a land search.

This post has been edited by Seremban_2: Feb 29 2012, 05:53 PM
jimme
post Feb 29 2012, 06:33 PM

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6. Your SPA lawyer dates memorandum of transfer [MOT] and submits it for adjudication.
7. LHDN will issue notice of stamp duty to be paid upon MOT.
8. SPA lawyer pays stamp duty and gets MOT stamped. DOC is also stamped with nominal stamp duty.
9. SPA lawyer hands over registration fees, DOC, MOT and other original documents to loan lawyer.

Hi Dario,

In case vendor delay on above procedure (not giving original documents) and purchaser's bank starts charging interest. Can purchaser stipulate something on SPA that if such cicusmstances happen vendor is liable for the bank interest incurred? Thanks.
PetomJL
post Feb 29 2012, 06:44 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Feb 29 2012, 11:06 AM)
With regard to the strata title - the original ought to be with the vendor's bank as a security (assuming that there is a loan). Otherwise, it ought to be kept by the vendor directly. I'm not sure why the developer would be holding it. That is not common.
*
Is the individual title not yet available/not yet transferred? Normally that's the case if a title is in developer's hand.
karfei00
post Feb 29 2012, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(PetomJL @ Feb 29 2012, 06:44 PM)
Is the individual title not yet available/not yet transferred? Normally that's the case if a title is in developer's hand.
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yeah, still in developer's hand, strata title out already, but hvnt do MOT
TSdariofoo
post Feb 29 2012, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(doublef @ Feb 29 2012, 12:11 PM)
If i got a land, and i rent it, if the person who rent my land did not pay, what a the step to do?

aggrement made in dec 2008 for 3 years. the rental pay rental normal until november 2010, the rental did not pay for 6 month. and he pay for mei 2011, and i make the letter to get the money. then his wife take over his business and pay monthly rent for mei 2011 until now, she also pay extra 1 month.

now i appoint 1 letter to give he 3 month to pay 5 month rent and normal monthly rent.

what i want to know is what is the step if he/she did not pay? police report or court letter or just seal the premise? the step.

thank you in advance
*
So, the due rental is from the husband who signed the agreement with you? If so, then you have to sue him, not sue her. Send a letter of demand via a lawyer to him. As the wife is paying rental as usual, I don't think you can sue her as yet. Do you have an agreement with her? If not, better get one done now.

I hope I understood the facts right. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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TSdariofoo
post Feb 29 2012, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(it.fusion @ Feb 29 2012, 02:14 PM)
Consent from land office are done by S&P or Loan Lawyer ?
I am in doubt that my S&P lawyer had did that since there is no chapter of this earlier...

this can be done also during land title name change ?
one more thing.... the agent told me earlier that the unit i am purchasing are never been rented out.. but i came to know that the unit are now stayed by vendor's fren from oversea till another 2 months.. Question is, once the land title are changed to me can i request the vendor fren to move out ? and if not, pay for rental from then on ?

*
You quoted my reply to another forummer's question on consent. Is your property leasehold which requires consent? In any event, it is the vendor's duty to obtain consent to transfer, and your loan lawyer's duty to obtain consent to charge.

At the end of the transaction, keys are given to you with vacant posession. So that friend would have to move out before keys are handed over to you.

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TSdariofoo
post Feb 29 2012, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(rave7575 @ Feb 29 2012, 02:33 PM)
guys...

my brother have a problem..he has a new house which initially wana sell off...found a agent and a buy ready...my bother issue offer letter den the buyer sign ready...but have yet to sign the s&p agreement. now my brother change is mind don't want sell due to some financial reason. so what is the legal implication and how to move forward to cancel the agreement?

please advise..thank you so much
*
Try to explain it to the agent and the purchaser. Any deposit paid? If got deposit paid, even if RM1, then it forms a binding contract and the purchaser can sue him to force him to sell it at the agreed price and terms.

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TSdariofoo
post Feb 29 2012, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(karfei00 @ Feb 29 2012, 04:44 PM)
may i know for a typical sub sale transaction, should i find a lawyer to do SPA first or go apply loan first? my case is bank need to look at the title but vendor refuse to give it directly to me, vendor ask me to get from him via a lawyer but i do not have one
*
Do both at the same time also can. Looks like you have to appoint a lawyer now to get the docs. If you're hunting for a house anyway, there's no reason why you shouldn't appoint one now itself. If you can land this unit, you'd still need a lawyer for the next one.

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TSdariofoo
post Feb 29 2012, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ Feb 29 2012, 05:17 PM)
my case is like this
dad leave a will and need lawyers to transfer to name to new owner(its an apartment)
my question is...lawyers charge based on the hours they used to do the things or they charged based on the value of the house?
the lawyer that we appointed say they charged us based on the value of the apartment...and it doesn't make sense to me since procedure is same
if someone's hse is 2-3 million ringgit thn who knows how much would they charge
they charge us RM6k + 6% service tax + advertising fee = RM6000++
and whats funny is...thats only the phase 1 charges(high court thingy + advertising fee + service tax)
there is another phase he said is the transfer ownership thingy that would cost another few thousand
want to ask those that know well....is these all reasonable?..or hes overcharging us?

location...sabah
*
If for litigation, i.e. court proceedings, then it is subjective. Different law firms will charge you differently. So it is not based on the value of the property or the work hours required for the whole process.

If for conveyancing, i.e. transfer of property, then in Semenanjung, there is the SRO 2005 which regulates a fixed scaled based on the price of the property. If it is a transfer pursuant to a will, then it would be based on the market price. This is set by the Bar Council.

Am not sure as to the scaled fees in Sabah. Perhaps you can call the Sabah Law Association, whcih governs advocates and solicitors in Sabah.

With regard to your comment on how it doesn't make sense to you if they charge on the value of the house when the procedure is the same, let me explain to you the basis for it - the higher the price, the higher the risk it is for the lawyer doing the work. If things go wrong, then the lawyer would be sued for that higher amount. What if you act in person. You bear that same higher risk. When you appoint a lawyer, you pass the risk to the lawyer. As such, the higher the risk, the higher the remuneration must be.

That is the logic for it. icon_rolleyes.gif



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