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 Lawyer's Corner v2, One-stop centre for any legal queries

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TSdariofoo
post Mar 8 2012, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(pinkylim @ Mar 7 2012, 11:14 PM)
Dear Dario, do know abt stamp duty on transfers property from father and/or mother to a child ? 50% remission still valid in 2012 ?

TQ.
*
As far as I know, the exemption has not been revoked yet, so it is still in force. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 8 2012, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(Kampfer @ Mar 7 2012, 11:58 PM)
Hi, I would like to know.
When i purchase a new form a developer. Should the developer lawyer change the name of the assessment bill of local council & Jabatan Tanah for me o I hv to go change myself?

Bcos I got  my house key for more then 1 year. N I did not received the assessment bill. When I goto check with MPK to print out the bill, it still the developer name & add.

N d bill has been posted to them n not my add. N d penalty. I hv to paid  rclxub.gif
*
Unless the SPA provides that the developer has to do it (which I doubt so), the burden is upon you to do the change of name on your own. So I suppose you do have to bear the penalty as well. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 8 2012, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(StevenL @ Mar 8 2012, 09:55 AM)
Bro Dario,

Hoped you had a good outing recently. Wanna ask is it possible to sell the house w/o goin thru the Agent? What will be the concern if we do it this way?

If it is possible, what document can the new buyer used to present to the bank to acquire financing?

Thanks.
*
The only thing is that you would need to prepare your own letter of offer to purchase [LO] and get the purchaser to sign it when he puts in the earnest deposit of 2-3% with you. You can type out any terms and conditions as you wish on the said LO and it will be binding as long as both parties sign it.

This LO will be used by the purchaser to apply for a loan.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 9 2012, 01:29 PM

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whitfurrows:
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The clauses are quite standard is all SPAs. I think you're right. The vendor seems to be trying to wriggle out of it. If you think that you can give up on the house, then ask him to refund your deposit and pay legal fees incurred (check with your lawyer how much it'll cost). Get paid and then walk away.

Otherwise, you have the option of suing him, but it's not really a clear cut winnable case, as the SPA has not been executed. What can be shown is that the vendor is objecting to terms which are quite standard in SPAs. This would give rise to the assumption that the vendor is being difficult and had the intention to frustrate you so as to result in you deciding to abort the SPA due to inability to agree on the terms of the SPA.

But like I said, it's not a clear cut 100% case for you if you decide to bring it to Court. You may have to wait for months and even years (if there are subsequent appeals) for you to get the house.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 9 2012, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(elwis9091 @ Mar 9 2012, 03:52 PM)
Hi ,

Dariofoo,

can you pls advise the flow chart of Wirt of Eviction.
Am I right ?
        Summon

              l
              l
              V

  Permohonan Perintah Exparte

     
              l
              l
              v 
    writ of Eviction

Pls advise .  Thank you very much
*
Eviction? Via Originating Summons in High Court or Distress proceedings in Magistrate's Court. What is the nature of the relationship between the parties? Is it a trespasser, tenancy holding over, or tenancy owing rental?
TSdariofoo
post Mar 9 2012, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(whitfurrows @ Mar 9 2012, 03:37 PM)
Do we have the rights to ask for the compensation on legal fees?
*
Of course. It counts as your expenses. He has to compensate you for it. nod.gif

TSdariofoo
post Mar 9 2012, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(elwis9091 @ Mar 9 2012, 09:14 PM)
Eviction via Distress proceedings in Magistrate's Court . tenancy owing rental and breach of contract?
*
Distress is fast, but it does not serve to evict the tenant. A writ of distress is whereby the Bailiff will attend at the premises and seize belongings of the tenant to be auctioned off via public auction to pay off the outstanding rental due and owing to you. If amount is less than RM25K, it will be at the Magistrates' Court. If it is more than RM25k, it will be filed at the Sessions Court.


TSdariofoo
post Mar 9 2012, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(kmarc @ Mar 9 2012, 09:01 PM)
My question is:
1) Can they ask the S&P lawyer to delay the deal? It would be funny if they can delay selling their house for months or years after signing.
2) What can I do? The sellers appears honest and I don't want to get into an argument. Was thinking about a lawyer agreement (which they have to pay) stating that we can start renovation and the house will definitely be sold to us after July 31. Was also thinking whether I can ask for my deposit back or some compensation while waiting as the sum is more than 50k.
*
1) No. If this is your lawyer, then you ought to seriously consider if you want him to continue to act for you as he appears to be siding with the vendor, which is clearly wrong and is a breach of his fiduciary duty to you. Unless there is something in black and white where you had agreed to date the SPA in July? If none, there is no reason why the SPA is not dated and stamped A.S.A.P. once the 10% deposit is paid. The SPA is your only evidence of the purchase from the vendor. Otherwise, what else is there to protect your right? doh.gif

2) Tell the seller to forget about this arrangement and either you date it and proceed as usual, or abort the transaction. There has been cases where the SPA is signed and once the loan has been approved, the vendor allows the purchaser to rent and commence some renovations. That is risky by itself. A more safer time frame would be when the first disbursement by the bank is out, thus redeeming the vendor's loan. The most safest is to wait until the end of the transaction. Don't ever discount the possibility that things might go wrong in between and you fail to complete the transaction. What will happen then to the reno? Don't expect the vendor to compensate you as the delay/fault was from your side.

Think things over before you decide what to do. Without a stamped SPA you basically have no right over the property. Your lawyer would've and should've advised you properly in this regard.

icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 10 2012, 01:44 AM

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QUOTE(kmarc @ Mar 9 2012, 11:56 PM)
Thx for the prompt reply.

1) It is actually their lawyer, which they said could give better legal fees. I don't have any lawyer friends.  sweat.gif And yeah, there is no black and white document that the agreed date for the SPA is in July. If what their lawyer is doing is wrong and a breach of his duty, is there anyway I can "threaten" them or their lawyer (in a nice way) so that I get a better deal (see below) as this is clearly unfair to us?
*
I'm not sure how it works for you but normally, it is the purchaser who appoints his own lawyer and pays full scaled fees. That is 100% of the time. Vendor elects to tumpang purchaser's lawyer for redemption, discharge of charge/RnR and CKHT forms. Lawyer is deemed to be acting for the purchaser. If in this case, you're paying scaled fees but the lawyer is deemed to be acting for the vendor, then you've been taken for a ride, or you've agreed on a really bad deal on your part.

Having no lawyer friends is no excuse, sorry to say. Who needs lawyer friends? You need a professional lawyer who is there to take care of your interest, not to be your friend. You ought to have asked your friends and families to recommend you one. Throw a stone in a crowd and you'll hit a lawyer. There's so many of them around. A lot of them do conveyancing matters.

Now, since it's the vendor's lawyer, the question of breach of duty does not arise. He is after all acting in the best interest and instruction of the vendor, i.e. to delay until July. It's you who has been taken for a ride.



QUOTE(kmarc @ Mar 9 2012, 11:56 PM)
1) It is actually their lawyer, which they said could give better legal fees. I don't have any lawyer friends.  sweat.gif And yeah, there is no black and white document that the agreed date for the SPA is in July. If what their lawyer is doing is wrong and a breach of his duty, is there anyway I can "threaten" them or their lawyer (in a nice way) so that I get a better deal (see below) as this is clearly unfair to us?

2) I understand.[b[SIZE=7]] I myself thinks it is risky to do renovations and then seller decides not to sell
. [/b][SIZE=7]However, do you think there can be a third option as I'm hoping the deal will go through? "Proceed as usual" won't work as they want to wait until a full 5 years. "Abort the transaction" would be a loss to us in terms of time and money spent. "Agree to delay" would be unfair to us as we had put in the deposit, t[SIZE=7]hinking that everything will proceed as usual and we get the house in the usual time. Furthermore, we really like the house after looking at so many houses. Was thinking about the seller giving me some better deal e.g. monetary incentive to allow the SPA to be dated in July.....  hmm.gif

Basically, what I'm asking is what I can do to make the deal go through which is fair for me as a buyer (with deposit being paid and the assumption that seller wants to wait until July 31).....
*
I've highlighted your own words there for you to dwell on. You put in 10% deposit on a house and there's no SPA to secure your right.

I see no middle part in this. On one end, you abort it. On the other hand - If you want to take the risk and start reno now, do keep your fingers crossed that there would be no glitches in between as the finish line is very much far ahead. I can't see how you can have any other agreement to "secure" your right bearing in mind that the SPA is the principal agreement that protects you and that 10% deposit which you have put in. If that is not dated and stamped, ,of what use are the side agreements? Where do you stand without the stamped SPA? Are you a purchaser? Are you a tenant? Think about it.

Good luck. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Mar 10 2012, 01:52 AM
TSdariofoo
post Mar 12 2012, 01:34 AM

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QUOTE(elwis9091 @ Mar 10 2012, 03:48 PM)
How about the flow of writ of vacant possession? Any conditions have to meet beforehand? e.g. ex-parte or step by step


Added on March 10, 2012, 3:49 pm
How about the flow of writ of vacant possession? Any conditions have to meet beforehand? e.g. ex-parte or step by step
*
Writ of Possession is enforcement after you obtain judgment. You need to serve an eviction notice first. Give the tenant one month to surrender VP to you. After that you need to appoint a lawyer to file a summons in Court for an order to compel the tenant to surrender VP to you plus any rental due and owing. Once you get the order, then you enforce it. You can also appoint a lawyer now to prepare the eviction notice to the tenant.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 12 2012, 01:37 AM

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QUOTE(awdarr @ Mar 11 2012, 11:55 AM)
Hi, normally when will one sign the loan agreement after signing the loan offer? Based on the agent, we only sign when signing the S&P together. Is it true? I forgot how my previous property signing was. It was some time back then.
*
As soon as your loan lawyer can prepare it. But of course it has to be after or simultaneous with signing of SPA. Never earlier.


QUOTE(awdarr @ Mar 11 2012, 11:55 AM)
Also, the LO I've signed did not state whether it's DIBS and the loan tenure did not include the DIBS period. The agent told me this is a standard LO format and assured me that this project is under DIBS and bank's record already showed such and will not bill me to pay the interest during under-con. It's just not show in LO due to format. Do I need to worry? (The bank is panel to this project which offers DIBS).

Another question is for full flexi loan under DIBS, when will we need to open the current a/c, after VP? This is my first property with DIBS and thus, no experience with it. The banker told me I do not need to pay RM10 monthly fees for the full flexi a/c during the construction period (again this is not stated in the LO, it's just verbal assurance).
*
These questions should be posed to your banker. If your agent can only give you verbal guarantees, insist on seeing someone higher and get something in black and white. Verbal promises are nothing but hot air. The LO can be amended at any time.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 12 2012, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(Rodat @ Mar 11 2012, 09:48 PM)
Hi dariofoo,
I bought a house from developer last year, already paid mot and now serving progress payment up to 35%. Initially did not take up loan, thus 35% is from own pocket. Two months ago, I applied for loan, get everything done, signed the loan agreement... Then two days ago I received call from my lawyer said that bank cannot release the money to developer due to developer not yet registered the mot, and my lawyer ask me to pay the 10% which is going to due next few days myself,otherwise may get penalty from developer!

Shall I pay?
*
Sorry but I don't understand your scenario. Which lawyer is this? Loan lawyer? Where is your SPA lawyer in this whole picture?
TSdariofoo
post Mar 12 2012, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(Rodat @ Mar 12 2012, 12:21 PM)
the SPA lawyer is developer's lawyer(they have thier legal department). the loan lawyer is my own lawyer(bank's panel). MY case is I did not apply for loan at the beginning, thinking to use my previous house proceed to pay for the new property. The loan only initiated after I served the progress payment up to 35%. This coming 10% progress payment supposed to be fund by loan, but now bank cannot release the money due to the MOT not registed. my question is:-
1. Shall I pay the 10% ?
2. Is the developer has right to get progress payment from me if they did not register the MOT? (I have paid all 35%)?
*
What does your SPA say? Follow the terms there. If you can't comprehend it then run it through your loan lawyer for advise. Hopefully he would.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 13 2012, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(shneo70 @ Mar 12 2012, 05:40 PM)
Dear Dariofoo,

Hope to get your advice for my case.
I bought a apartment last year and signed the S&P December 2011. To date my banker had already released the redemption sum and awaitng some documents from the vendor (R&R). Now, 1 month passed but the vendor seems like sitting on it; no news from vendor's side.

Is there anything I can do? He is still collecting rental from the tenant of the apartment but I have to pay interest to the bank!

Hope to get your advice.

Thanks.
Neo
*
Vendor represented by lawyer? Then get your lawyer to write to them. Perhaps the original documents are still stuck with the bank. Things go missing sometimes and that is why there is a delay with the RnR.

If vendor not represented by lawyer then it most likely has to be your lawyer who has been authorised to follow up with the Deed of RnR. So check with them as to what the status is.

In all probability, the delay is from the bank who has to execute the RnR and return it together with the original docs.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 13 2012, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Mar 12 2012, 04:40 PM)
Which means I'm overpaying RM1.5k more, which they claim they help me hand over income tax documents and etc. :S I already have income tax open all these years, so why do they need to "help me" to handover?
*
That is Form CKHT 2A, which the lawyer entitled to charge RM200/pax. It is compulsory to file it.

You must also include 6% service tax, and other disbursements like searches, travelling, stamp duty on SPA, postage, courier, and other misc costs.

Best to get a quotation on them with the breakdown of fees. That is how it is commonly done. Then you can compare it with the many samples and comments in v1 of this thread.

TSdariofoo
post Mar 13 2012, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(burningbun @ Mar 13 2012, 11:03 AM)
Just wondering normally what is the rate of lawyer fee for S&P & Bank Loan by %?

Also how do we check stamp duty fees for both S&P & Loan?
*
You can refer to the calculator at the first page.

For % breakdown, you can download the SRO at the first page as well, which will enlighten you further.

QUOTE(burningbun @ Mar 13 2012, 11:03 AM)
Normally how much do we save on Bank Loan lawyer fee if we use the same lawyer as the S&P? Do we save much or better to use Bank's Lawyer?
*
Legal fees would be the same but you can ask for reduction in expenses/disbursements like travelling - which can be saved as you're using only one firm to do the running around for you.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 13 2012, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(PowderBug @ Mar 12 2012, 09:08 PM)
Hi DarioFoo,

If I buy a subsale leasehold property which has only Mastertitle and the property now under a liquidator, is there any name transfer involved for ownership? Or do I have to wait for the strata title to be ready? Lets say if the strata can only be ready only 5 years later, do I have to engage a lawyer to help me with the ownership transfer? By then, will the name be transfered straight to me? Or do I still have to get the current owner to be present for the strata title name transfer, 5 years down the road? For strata title to be ready, who should chase and who to chase?

Any words of advise concerning liquidated leasehold properties? Subsale legal process duration wise and costs incured.

Hopefully my questions are not super rojak to understand as I myself am very  rclxub.gif
*
No transfer of title involved as it is still in Master Title. So you derive your legal and beneficial ownership via a Deed of Assignment (DOA) between you and the vendor. You have to wait for the strata to be out but looking at the scenario, I doubt if that will happen as it is expensive to do so and the liquidator's job is to save money, not spend more. Perhaps if a white knight takes over the ownership then perhaps there would be hope in the future. If strata title is out, it will be transferred to you immediately, as the vendor is out of the picture via the DOA. You would have to appoint a lawyer to do it. Most folks appoint their bank lawyer to do it as the bank would require a charge to be prepared over the strata as the DOA in favour of the bank would no longer be applicable by virtue of the strata title. For strata to be ready, it is the developer who has the duty to do so, but since they are already wound up, there's nothing much anyone can do but to wait with hope.

TSdariofoo
post Mar 14 2012, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(PowderBug @ Mar 13 2012, 02:52 PM)
Then the ownership will now belongs to the liquidator? Does this mean the management fees will go to them?
*
I wouldn't say OWNERSHIP BELONGS to them. It's just like the ship has a new captain. The captain doesn't own the ship, but just tries to steer it out of shark-infested (read: creditors) waters. Ultimately the company will reach its final port of destination and be wound up and thereafter cease to exist. Management fees would still have to be paid as usual. It will go into the fund for the upkeep and maintenance of the common property and is out of reach of the creditors, so no worries there.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Mar 14 2012, 11:44 AM
TSdariofoo
post Mar 14 2012, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(thilak833 @ Mar 13 2012, 03:07 PM)
I have few questions,

When a vendor wants to sell a property, upon signing the S&P:

1.Will the remaining deposit be kept by the lawyer?
2.Wouldn't the vendor get the deposit ?
3.What happens in the scenarios when the buyer prolongs the payment for two months or more and he have not signed paper? 
4.Will the deposit for the lawyer to keep till approved by pejabat tanah? 
5.Would there be any way that the vendor can cancel the agreement as the buyer havent signed yet?
*
1. Normally the cheque will be paid in favour of the vendor, unless the vendor instructs it to be paid in favour of the lawyer, perhaps to contra with legal fees.
2. As stated above, normally it will go to the vendor.
3. Normally in the Letter of Offer to Purchase, a time frame will be given to the purchaser to sign the SPA. Normally it would be 14 working days. If the purchaser delay, the 2% earnest deposit is forfeited by the vendor as compensation. Alternatively, the vendor can sue the purchaser to compel him to proceed with the SPA and complete the transaction.
4. Depends on what is stated in the SPA. If it is silent, vendor can have the deposit, but he must be vary that if consent is not allowed (I'm assuming that's what you meant by 'approved by pejabat tanah') - then the vendor must refund the deposit.
5. No. Once the vendor has accepted the earnest deposit and executed the letter of offer to purchase, that is consideration moving from the purchaser to the vendor. It is a binding contract. The purchaser can sue the vendor to compel him to proceed with the SPA and complete the transaction.

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TSdariofoo
post Mar 14 2012, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Mar 13 2012, 03:20 PM)
Hi Dario, I have asked but they do not have quotation. Very funny indeed.

Anyway. They breakdown to the part of submitting Form CKHT 2A for me and my Wife and charging RM500++ for it.

So I told them I will submit them myself.
*
That is ridiculous. I'm surprised if you go ahead with this firm. It is unprofessional of them to refuse to hand over a breakdown of the fees to you. By the way, CKHT 2A is RM200 per pax. As such, for 2 pax it is RM400, not 500++. God knows how much the other charges are being marked up.

Be wary. icon_rolleyes.gif

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