You are in the right thread. This thread is for legal advice for any type of legal topics and not limited to property matters.

If there is no black and white, the landlord cannot compel you to pay 1/3 of the utilities. Whether it is fair or not is not the question - what is important is that you have to agree to it. And put it properly in an agreement.

I think it's better to get something in black and white now before any further complications rises. If you think the landlord is going to be difficult, then perhaps it's time to move out, as these are the type of landlords who will forfeit your deposit for the most flimsy of reasons. Be careful.

Nothing much you can do but to wait. The completion period will be extended in your favour so there's no late penalty interest to be paid to the vendor. Vendor represented? If so, then get your SPA lawyer to write to vendor's lawyer to chase the bank to issue the redemption statement

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Read the draft SPA and see what is stated there. It will state the procedure to deal with the 2%.

If the property is owned for 5 years or more, then there is no need to hold the 2%.

If less than 5 years, then you might need to hold it. Then it depends on whether the vendor wants to apply for exemption, or proceed to allow you to pay the 2% to LHDN being advance payment of CKHT on his behalf. Most of the time, the vendor would've decided before execution of the SPA.

If threaten at knife point, then go lodge a police report. Lucky the lawyer did not stab you to death.

CKHT 1A fees for lawyers are fixed at RM300/pax, so RM600 for 2 persons is correct.

So the seller has recommended a lawyer to you and you're paying full scaled fees?

You can read the various posts in this thread and also in v1 to see how many forummers who face problems and delay are those who appoint lawyers "recommended" by the vendor.

You have been warned in advance. I'm not saying that 100% it will turn out bad, but there has been many similar bad experiences encountered by forummers in such same scenario.

If it is not too late, you can always opt to appoint your own lawyer. You're paying full scaled fees anyway, so why go for a lawyer recommended by the vendor. Your lawyer must act in your best interest. How do you expect him to do so, if he is a friend of the vendor (or former lawyer for the vendor). Food for thought.

Then it is your SPA lawyer who has to chase chase chase

Of course now that everything is ok, she will be ok. But when problems arise, how do you think she would be? Am not saying that she'll turn into Dr Evil or something but it is always best to be prudent and aware from the outset.

If they fail to pay, of course it is you who has to fork out the money to pay it as you are the borrower on record. If you continue to fail to pay, the bank will recall the facility and commence foreclosure proceedings, i.e. to auction off the property. Now, if the final bid is sufficient to cover the outstanding amount plus costs, etc, then all is good and the bank will close the file. Otherwise, the bank has the option to institute enforcement proceedings against you personally to claim what is due to them. If the amount is RM30K or more, they would most likely go for bankruptcy proceedings. Guarantors are normally left aside first as they would have to exhaust their remedy against the borrower first before going after the guarantors.

Even if you now come up with some side agreement between you and your friends, it still does not matter as you can't use it as an excuse when the bank comes knocking on the door in the event of a default. That side agreement is privy between you and your friends, and is of no concern of the bank. It is you as the borrower who would feel the full brunt of enforcement against you personally in the event recovery from the sale is not sufficient.

Honestly and with all due respect, I think you got yourself into a really unfavourable and seemingly unfair position. All 3 parties ought to have been named as co-borrowers.

Perhaps you should ask your bank that,bro.

What do you mean by the company's secretarial documents? Example?

It has to be the legal fees for loan documentation. That is another set of fees not related to the SPA legal fees. Some developers absorb it, while some doesn't. Perhaps you can ask for a detailed breakdown of it from the agent (I'm assuming that when you say agent, it is the mortgage agent from the bank right?). This will give you a clearer idea as to what it is. I have no idea why the other buyers are saying that they don't have to pay for it though.

A lawyer who can go to Court or act on your behalf in an SPA or issue a letter under a letterhead of a law firm must possess a Practising Cert/Sijil Annual which is issued and renewed every year by Bar Council. To check whether a lawyer has one for year 2012, use the Find A Lawyer link on the first page of this thread. If the name doesn't appear, just to double check, call Bar Council and give the name of the lawyer and they'll check for you. A lawyer may be practising last year but if he doesn't have a Sijil Annual this year, he can no longer actively act for you.


B. Com is Bachelor of Commerce. LLB is Lex Legum Bacchelaureus, which simply means Bachelor of Laws in Latin. It is just a degree in law. It does not necessarily mean that the person is a qualified lawyer who is entitled to PRACTISE law. You need to check with Bar Council first.

Advocate & Solicitor means that the person has been called to the Bar and is entitled to practise. However, you would still need to check with Bar Council if he is qualified to practise law for year 2012.

Notary public is like a Commissioner for Oaths, but they notarise documents which are to be used for international matters, like international trade agreements. Some lawyers are qualified notary public. It is an added service which they provide to their clients.

If civil case then you can do a file search at the Registry.

For criminal cases you can't do so. Are you the accused (OKT) or are you the complainant (pengadu)?

Then you can't approach the Court directly. Write formally to the DPP to ask about 'status pendakwaan dan keputusan kes'. If you're ok with the DPP and you think that he's flexible then just give a call and find out.

I'm not 100% sure about this but I am of the opinion that those documents can be forwarded to any party, not just the auditors. I don't think that there is anything confidential about those documents. One can do a company search online and those information would pop up.

Who's "we" ? And what is your position? I'm sure at the worst case scenario, the directors can pass a board reso to direct the company secretary to hand over the said documents to the auditors. That ought to solve it.

No. There is no duty upon the DPP to give you an official report. At the best, a hardworking DPP would write a simple letter informing of the decision. Otherwise, it would be done verbally or in most cases, no update at all unless the complainant makes the effort to find out.

Sorry, I don't give out advice via PM.

Seems like a straightforward case of debt recovery by a telco company against a subscriber, right?

It all goes down to burden of proof - See Section 103, Evidence Act 1950. Sections 102 and 106 would also be relevant.

Section 103 of the Evidence Act 1950 provides that the burden of proof as to any particular fact lies on that person who wishes the court to believe in its existence, unless it is provided by any law that the proof of that fact shall lie on any particular person.

Telco wants to prove their claim of usage of telco line - they have to adduce the itemised bill stating the particulars of usage. Once that is done, they have discharged their burden of proof.

Subscriber wants to prove his defence that the line has been terminated. He has to adduce evidence that he has communicated same to the telco company [via a letter which was duly accepted and acknowledged by the telco company], or that the telco company has given him some document evidencing termination of the line. If he fails do so, then his defence would fail.

Subscriber does not need to claim or allege inside/internal job as the evidence of it is almost impossible to obtain or to convince the Court. A bare allegation would not suffice. That is not a good defence at all. So there's no need to raise it at all.

Now, if the subscriber cannot show documentary evidence of such notice of termination, then he is in hot soup as verbal statements are as good as nothing, since the telco company can always deny it. They don't have the burden to prove that it was never communicated to them. The burden is always on the party who alleges or claims a fact. So if the subscriber is claiming the fact that it was verbally communicated to the telco co, then he has to adduce evidence in support of it.

Hope that puts things in perspective for you.

Go back to what is provided for in the SPA. If SPA says that vendor has to bear your legal fees, then so be it. If not, you have to bear it yourself. What was your arrangement with your lawyer as well? You ought to have discussed with him as to the status of the fees in the event consent cannot be obtained in time and the transaction is aborted.

The SPA would not provide anything that you can do but to wait for the property to be constructed and completed. Your remedy would only kick in when you get the keys. Then you calculate the number of days of delay and proceed to either file a claim at the Housebuyer's Tribunal, if below RM50,000.00, or at the Civil Court if the claim is more than RM50,000.00.

Pay monthly installments until redemption statement is issued by your bank. Collect rental up til handover of keys. Tenancy for that month of handover would be pro-rated.

Yes, you are still responsible for the maintenance fees, outgoings and upkeep of the place until final handover.