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Discussion FA 'kickstart' Campaign against Racism?, Has it the Will to stamp out Racism?

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IcyDarling
post Dec 29 2011, 09:03 AM

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QUOTE(REDShaun @ Dec 27 2011, 11:35 AM)
coming from someone who quotes the bible but has a devil holding a fork in their siggy banner... puhlease...

shows we are all but mortal sinners kiddo smile.gif
*
Oh so theres this new rule that says manchester united fans cant quote the bible?

QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 27 2011, 02:55 PM)
Far as I can tell, no one is even 100% sure which "N" word he used. "Negrito" (if it's the word that was uttered), means "little black man". No disrespect meant, but Evra isn't exactly huge. It's why I'm saying he could have referred to Evra's stature and physical description just as you would call someone, "you fat man". It doesn't mean he meant to insult Evra's heritage. Can you with absolute certainty he did? What do we know to be facts of the case?

Siska, no one is saying he didn't say anything controversial. Can you effing read? Grown ups can.
*
But I thought he already admitted he used the word negrito?
likeicare
post Dec 29 2011, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 29 2011, 08:22 AM)
My gripe in this instance is the abuse from the Fulham and Wigan fans. If they deemed it fit to have stewards wear headcams to spot those in the crowd hurling abuse at John Terry, then surely the same courtesy can be afforded to Suarez? The FA does keep harping about "zero tolerance" when it comes to racism and abuse after all. Shouldnt matter who the player receiving the abuse is. Not uncommon to hear clubs being fined for unruly behavior on the part of their fans, no?

As for the ban, I don't agree with suggestions it was too light. Just two seasons ago Joey Barton escaped with just a warning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...ndo-Torres.html Ashley Cole escaped as well and the "V" sign is arguably more offensive in England. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2328795/A...n-fall-out.html. The inconsistencies are there for anyone willing to see them.

One thing I foresee happening is more and more incidences getting reported to the point it will almost turn football into a passionless, non emotive sport.
*
And Rooney got what? 3 matches? How much is swearing and showing middle finger differs anyway? One is to celebrate his hattrick and another one is an intended gesture.
And yes, Fulham and Wigan should be fined.

This post has been edited by likeicare: Dec 29 2011, 09:45 AM
Duke Red
post Dec 29 2011, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(likeicare @ Dec 29 2011, 09:41 AM)
And Rooney got what? 3 matches? How much is swearing and showing middle finger differs anyway?
And yes, Fulham and Wigan should be fined.
*
Rooney got 2 matches for swearing but escaped punishment for the "V" sign.


Added on December 29, 2011, 9:47 am
QUOTE(IcyDarling @ Dec 29 2011, 09:03 AM)
Oh so theres this new rule that says manchester united fans cant quote the bible?
But I thought he already admitted he used the word negrito?
*
Some articles I've read says he used the word, "negro", like in the "forza negro" banner I posted earlier.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 29 2011, 09:47 AM
likeicare
post Dec 29 2011, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 29 2011, 09:45 AM)
Rooney got 2 matches for swearing but escaped punishment for the "V" sign.


Added on December 29, 2011, 9:47 am

Some articles I've read says he used the word, "negro", like in the "forza negro" banner I posted earlier.
*
You mean in the Chelsea match? You sure that is a V sign? Or a sign to ref to be more focused?
Duke Red
post Dec 29 2011, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(likeicare @ Dec 29 2011, 09:48 AM)
You mean in the Chelsea match? You sure that is a V sign? Or a sign to ref to be more focused?
*
Nope not sure. Can't find any article on the issue anymore. Pretty sure about the Cole, Barton and Neville ones though.
REDShaun
post Dec 30 2011, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(IcyDarling @ Dec 29 2011, 09:03 AM)
Oh so theres this new rule that says manchester united fans cant quote the bible?
*
Nope, just you, since you were that kid that brought up the whole biblical I am holier than thou quotes smile.gif

Try harder when answering me. if not, don't try at all. it's getting stale trying to school you in anyway. Kindly refrain from starting anything if you can't finish it.
Makes life easier on all of us trying to make theological sense of your holiness in one area and then hypocritical in the next blush.gif


Added on December 30, 2011, 3:07 pm
QUOTE(likeicare @ Dec 29 2011, 01:59 AM)
Awww...most of the things happened in the game are in the heat of the argument. Even if I am racist, I don't go and refer someone using their color on the football field without any reason. That's suicidal, except maybe the lady in the bus. But then again, you don't think Suarez is as low as her, do you?  blush.gif

Ahh...the "Better than Thou" spirit. It runs deep in the blood.

On other note, 1 match ban for the hand gesture. I guess LFC will gladly accept this punishment  laugh.gif . Too good to be true. Guess Duke is spot on the consistency thingy. doh.gif
*
Better than thou spirit? Of cos it's always there.

How can you tell if you are better than some people blush.gif , especially if it's the truth brows.gif

This post has been edited by REDShaun: Dec 30 2011, 03:07 PM
Red11DEvils
post Dec 31 2011, 03:25 AM

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Think there nothing more to debate on for now... Not until whether the decision to appeal or not come out..
SGSuser
post Jan 1 2012, 01:15 AM

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here

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/Ne...Commission.ashx
legendofhafiz
post Jan 1 2012, 01:29 AM

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QUOTE
(1) In response to Mr Evra's question "Concha de tu hermana, porque me diste in
golpe" ("f***ing hell, why did you kick me"), Mr Suarez said "Porque tu eres
negro" ("Because you are black").

(2) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Habla otra vez asi, te voy a dar una porrada"
("say it to me again, I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "No hablo con los
negros" ("I don't speak to blacks").

(3) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Ahora te voy a dar realmente una porrada"
("okay, now I think I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "Dale, negro,
negro, negro" ("okay, blackie, blackie, blackie).

(4) When the referee blew his whistle to stop the corner being taken, Mr Suarez used
the word "negro" to Mr Evra.

(5) After the referee had spoken to the players for a second time, and Mr Evra had
said that he did not want Mr Suarez to touch him, Mr Suarez said "Por que,
negro?".


Interesting statement. now we can understand what is going on the pitch that day.
SGSuser
post Jan 1 2012, 02:15 AM

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QUOTE
389. We remind ourselves that the test for a breach of Rule E3(1) is an objective test. That
means that it is for us to form our own view as to whether Mr Suarez's words or
behaviour were abusive or insulting. It is not necessary for the FA to prove that Mr Suarez
intended his words or behaviour to be abusive or insulting. We are concerned with
whether the words or behaviour were abusive or insulting when used in a football match
played in England under the FA Rules. Mr McCormick accepted that we should apply
standards that we consider should be applicable to games played under the jurisdiction of
the FA. We are not deciding whether the words or behaviour would have been abusive or
insulting if used in a match in Uruguay. Nevertheless, we have taken account of the fact
that the words were said in Spanish by a Uruguayan player to a French player who speaks
Spanish. We have also had regard to the Spanish language expert evidence about how
particular uses of "negro" and comments using "negro" would or might be understood in
Uruguay. However, ultimately our task is to decide whether in our view the words or
behaviour were abusive or insulting in the circumstances in which they took place in this
match played in England under the FA Rules.

390. Mr Suarez used the word "negro" in his comments to Mr Evra because Mr Evra's skin
colour is black. In our judgment, Mr Suarez's words were insulting when he used the
word "negro" in each of the comments to Mr Evra which we have identified in paragraph
388 above.


QUOTE
Discussion and conclusions on penalty

426. We approached the issue of penalty in the following way.

The entry point

427. In accordance with Rule E3(2), we considered the imposition of an increased sanction.
Rule E3(2) directs us to take into account as an entry point, this being Mr Suarez's first
offence, a sanction that is double that which the Commission would have applied had that
aggravating factor of colour not been present.

428. In considering what sanction the Commission would have applied had the aggravating
factor of colour not been present, we note Paragraph 8(d) of the Disciplinary Procedures
which provides for an automatic two-match suspension if a player is sent off for insulting
language. Thus, a player who used insulting language, which did not include any
reference to ethnic origin, colour or race, would receive an automatic two-match
suspension. 107

429. Rule E3(2) then directs us to consider, as an entry point, a sanction that is double the
automatic two match suspension for insulting behaviour on account of the presence of the
aggravating factor of a reference to colour. Doubling the automatic two-match suspension
would result in a four-match suspension. We decided that an entry point of a four-match
suspension was appropriate in this case in line with the guidance in Rule E3(2).

430. We then considered the factors that supported a greater penalty than the entry point of a
four-match suspension ("aggravating factors").

431. The first aggravating factor was the number of times Mr Suarez used the word "negro" or
"negros". The entry point of a four-match suspension could apply in a case where the
alleged offender had used insulting words including a reference to colour once only
during a match. We have found that Mr Suarez used the word "negro" or "negros" seven
times in his exchanges with Mr Evra. It happened, also, in a number of phases. First, there
were the exchanges in the goalmouth. Secondly, there was the exchange just before the
referee spoke to the players. Thirdly, there was the exchange just after the referee had
spoken to the players. Whilst we recognised that the exchanges occurred over only a twominute spell in the second half of the match, there were multiple uses of the insulting
words by Mr Suarez.

432. The second aggravating factor was what Mr Suarez said when using the insulting words.
He did not simply use the word "negro" to address Mr Evra. He did that, but he also said
that he had kicked Mr Evra because he was black, and that he did not talk to blacks. Even
if Mr Suarez said these things in the heat of the moment without really meaning them,
nevertheless this was more than just calling Mr Evra "negro". According to the Spanish
language experts, the uses would have been regarded as racially offensive in Uruguay.


433. The third aggravating factor was the context in which Mr Suarez used the insulting words.
The context was of an acrimonious exchange, which included Mr Suarez pinching Mr
Evra's skin and putting his hand on the back of his head, both of which we found were an
attempt by Mr Suarez to wind up Mr Evra. Although we have found that the pinching
itself was not insulting behaviour nor did it refer to Mr Evra's colour, such physical 108
contact as part of a confrontation in which the insulting words were used served to
aggravate the misconduct.

434. The fourth aggravating factor was the fact that the FA has promoted campaigns to root
out all forms of unacceptable behaviour related to a person's ethnic origin, colour or race
in football, such as the "Kick It Out" campaign. Mr Suarez knew or ought to have known
that his behaviour was contrary to the message of those campaigns and unacceptable.

435. The fifth aggravating factor was that the insulting words were targeted by Mr Suarez at
one particular black player, Mr Evra, who Mr Suarez intended should hear the words. It
was not a case of a comment or comments directed at no-one in particular. Rather the
words were directed at Mr Evra in the context of an argument in which Mr Suarez was
attempting to wind up Mr Evra. We accept that Mr Evra was angry and upset during the
remainder of the game and at the end of it as a result of Mr Suarez using the insulting
words.


QUOTE
Conclusions on penalty


441. The use by a footballer of insulting words, which include reference to another player's
colour, is wholly unacceptable. It is wrong in principle. It is also wrong because
footballers, such as Mr Suarez, are looked up to and admired by a great many football
fans, especially young fans. If professional footballers use racially insulting language on a
football pitch, this is likely to have a corrosive effect on young football fans, some of
whom are the professional footballers of the future. It also has a potentially damaging
effect on the wider football community and society generally. Every professional
footballer should be able to play competitive football in the knowledge that references to
the colour of his skin will not be tolerated. The same goes for all levels of football. Those
who are victims of misconduct of this nature should know that, if they complain and their
complaint is upheld, the FA will impose an appropriate penalty which reflects the gravity
of this type of misconduct.

442. There is no tariff set down for penalty in such cases. There is the guidance in Rule E3(2) to
which we have referred. Having heard the evidence over several days and made our
detailed findings, we have weighed the aggravating and mitigating factors against each
other. Having done so, in our judgment an appropriate and proportionate penalty is an
eight-match suspension, a fine of £40,000 and a warning as to future conduct.

443. As for the length of the suspension, we concluded that a four-match ban, which was the
entry point under Rule E3(2), would be too low and would not reflect the gravity of the
misconduct. Mr Suarez's behaviour was far more serious than a single use of the word 110
"negro" to address Mr Evra in a way which would be considered inoffensive in Uruguay.
If that was all that Mr Suarez had done, and we had found the Charge proved, the penalty
would have been less than we have imposed.

444. Ultimately, this is not a matter of mathematical calculation, but a matter for the exercise of
our discretion in the light of all the circumstances. We considered a lower suspension; we
considered a greater suspension. We concluded that an eight-match suspension was
appropriate and proportionate, reflecting the seriousness of the misconduct, balanced
against the mitigation that was urged on us.

445. We also fined Mr Suarez £40,000. In doing so, we took account of the information that was
placed before us about his weekly salary. We considered this to be appropriate and
proportionate in the light of Mr Suarez's misconduct.

446. We also warned Mr Suarez as to his future conduct. This is customary where misconduct
charges are upheld, although we did not impose it simply as a matter of course. We
considered it appropriate and proportionate to warn him not to repeat this misconduct.
Stay of the eight-match suspension

447. Regulation 8.9 of the Disciplinary Regulations provides that unless the Commission
determines otherwise, a penalty shall come into effect immediately at the date of the
announcement of the decision.

448. Once we had announced our decision on penalty, Mr McCormick applied for a stay of the
eight-match suspension. He pointed out that Mr Suarez has until 14 days after the date of
the written reasons for the decision in which to appeal. He would not be in a position
properly to decide whether to appeal until he received the Commission's reasons for its
decision. However, if Mr Suarez served his suspension immediately, that would be unfair
in the event of a successful appeal.

449. We could see the force of this submission. Accordingly, we ordered a stay of the eightmatch suspension pursuant to Regulation 8.11 of the Disciplinary Regulations until 111
(1) the expiry of the 14-day period from receipt of our written reasons in which Mr
Suarez has a right of appeal against this decision, if no appeal is lodged during
this period,
(2) the outcome of any appeal lodged by Mr Suarez against this decision, if an
appeal is lodged during the period for appealing, or
(3) written notification to the Football Association of any decision by Mr Suarez not
to appeal, if served prior to the expiry of the period for appealing.

450. We also deemed Mr McCormick's application for a stay of the suspension pending any
appeal following receipt of our reasons to be an application for written reasons pursuant
to Regulation 9.3 of the Disciplinary Regulations. In the absence of a request for written
reasons from either party, written reasons are not required and are not usually provided
to the parties.


FA's been kind enough

QUOTE
Mitigating factors

436. We also considered the mitigating factors. The first mitigating factor was that Mr Suarez
had a clean record in relation to charges of this type.

437. The second mitigating factor was that Mr Evra started the confrontation in the goalmouth
and Mr Suarez reacted to it. It is important to point out that Mr Evra's conduct in starting
the confrontation was in response to being fouled, which involved being kicked on a knee
which had caused him trouble in the past. Mr Evra did not touch Mr Suarez and, whilst he
used an offensive phrase which Mr Suarez did not hear, Mr Evra did not use any words
which referred to Mr Suarez's ethnic origin, colour, race or nationality. Nevertheless, he
was the initiator of the confrontation at this moment.

438. The third mitigating factor concerns Mr Suarez's personal situation in terms of his family,
friends and those who look up to him, especially in Uruguay. We recognise that his
behaviour during the match is likely to become widely known as a result of our decision
with the consequent embarrassment and personal difficulty for him. 109

439. The fourth mitigating factor is Mr Suarez's charitable work, especially through the South
Africa football project. We recognise that Mr Suarez has made a valuable contribution
through that project, although a player who does so should be especially careful not to
undermine the principle underlying such a project by his own behaviour on a football
pitch.

440. The fifth mitigating factor is that we believe that Mr Suarez has learned a lesson through
the experience of these proceedings. He told us that he would not use the word "negro" on
a football pitch in England in the future and it would be highly surprising if he did so.


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This post has been edited by SGSuser: Jan 1 2012, 02:50 AM
boxsystem
post Jan 1 2012, 05:27 AM

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WOW, just WOW.

8 matches seemed to be so little now. Full report has been released and Liverpool FC has been trying to cover their mistakes like a 5-year old. Suarez is a racist after all. Liverpool FC has portrayed themselves to be hunted by the massive.

This is shocking.
Duke Red
post Jan 1 2012, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(boxsystem @ Jan 1 2012, 05:27 AM)
WOW, just WOW.

8 matches seemed to be so little now. Full report has been released and Liverpool FC has been trying to cover their mistakes like a 5-year old. Suarez is a racist after all. Liverpool FC has portrayed themselves to be hunted by the massive.

This is shocking.
*
You are right that based on what you read, Suarez is racist, but perhaps you are a little guilty of not reading the entire piece which you should before coming to such a conclusion given that Evra himself thinks Suarez isn't racist, and unlike you, he was actually involved in the incident.

If you read point 6. you'll note that Suarez gave a different account.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/Ne...Commission.ashx

Since the incident involved only the two of them, it appears the FA chose to believe Evra over Suarez unless someone testified and gave the same account Evra did.


Added on January 1, 2012, 9:27 amHowever I must say that if point 6. was not made, he should be deported back to Uruguay because the comments and it's frequency was excessive as much as I'd like to defend a fellow Red. I don't see how you can accuse the club of acting like a 5 year old. The only people involved were the both of them and the club backed Suarez's account of it just as the FA has backed Evra's.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jan 1 2012, 09:27 AM
ICDeadPeople
post Jan 1 2012, 09:51 AM

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So, will fellow reds admit that suarez was wrong? Im pretty sure he is not a racist, just an angry/irritated man giving a racist comment.
IcyDarling
post Jan 1 2012, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(REDShaun @ Dec 30 2011, 03:04 PM)
Nope, just you, since you were that kid that brought up the whole biblical I am holier than thou quotes smile.gif

Try harder when answering me. if not, don't try at all. it's getting stale trying to school you in anyway. Kindly refrain from starting anything if you can't finish it.
Makes life easier on all of us trying to make theological sense of your holiness in one area and then hypocritical in the next  blush.gif


Added on December 30, 2011, 3:07 pm

Better than thou spirit? Of cos it's always there.

How can you tell if you are better than some people  blush.gif , especially if it's the truth  brows.gif
*
it's funny how you reply like you are too superior for others. If you like to syok sendiri, go ahead. Since you are an "adult" now, I'm pretty sure you are facing difficulties due to your attitutes. No wonder you are so active in the thread like "some certain liver fans". Cause you don't have much real friends thanks to your attitute.
boxsystem
post Jan 1 2012, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 1 2012, 09:16 AM)
You are right that based on what you read, Suarez is racist, but perhaps you are a little guilty of not reading the entire piece which you should before coming to such a conclusion given that Evra himself thinks Suarez isn't racist, and unlike you, he was actually involved in the incident.

If you read point 6. you'll note that Suarez gave a different account.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/Ne...Commission.ashx

Since the incident involved only the two of them, it appears the FA chose to believe Evra over Suarez unless someone testified and gave the same account Evra did.


Added on January 1, 2012, 9:27 amHowever I must say that if point 6. was not made, he should be deported back to Uruguay because the comments and it's frequency was excessive as much as I'd like to defend a fellow Red. I don't see how you can accuse the club of acting like a 5 year old. The only people involved were the both of them and the club backed Suarez's account of it just as the FA has backed Evra's.
*
Unlike Liverpool FC, United behaved accordingly and not meddling between the two.

As much as I can understand your club's decision to change the perception of the massive on Suarez, the full report from FA clearly states that Suarez did use those vulgar words in not a friendly way. Except for point 6, which you have mentioned. Then again, it shouldn't be used at all, even if its acceptable in Uruguay.
munky
post Jan 1 2012, 02:31 PM

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OT:

if i bash my own race. Am i a racist?
REDShaun
post Jan 1 2012, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(IcyDarling @ Jan 1 2012, 10:19 AM)
it's funny how you reply like you are too superior for others. If you like to syok sendiri, go ahead. Since you are an "adult" now, I'm pretty sure you are facing difficulties due to your attitutes. No wonder you are so active in the thread like "some certain liver fans". Cause you don't have much real friends thanks to your attitute.
*
LOL, i seriously laughed out loud at this. I mean, really...that is the best you can come out with.

Thank god you turned 19.. i guess 2 more years and you might start behaving like an adult. oh anyway, happy birthday "kid". blush.gif

And if you can, come over George and Dragon at bangsar, i might just introduce my "imaginary friends" to you and maybe buy you a couple of drinks just to show you how high my attitude can be icon_rolleyes.gif


Added on January 1, 2012, 2:42 pmThat report is based on the FA's taking to one side of the story based on what "probably" might have happened. LOL, seriously, i like how the fans immediately jump in and make it their new testament.

read above, it's still one mans account against another mans account of what happened. in summary, the report has no concrete evidence besides a he(suarez) and she(evra) says situation.

but thanks anyway for all the post, it just shows some or many people's limitations. but then again, trolls aren't well known for their level of comprehension i suppose.

This post has been edited by REDShaun: Jan 1 2012, 02:42 PM
SGSuser
post Jan 1 2012, 02:47 PM

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215. It was accepted by both Mr Greaney and Mr McCormick in closing submissions that this is not simply a case of one person's word against another.
REDShaun
post Jan 1 2012, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(SGSuser @ Jan 1 2012, 02:47 PM)
215. It was accepted by both Mr Greaney and Mr McCormick in closing submissions that this is not simply a case of one person's word against another.
*
LOL quoting from a report taken to be sided with one persons account what probably happened? really?

The fact they put that out there already shows they are defending against it. doh.gif


Added on January 1, 2012, 2:54 pmFrom the FA report:

" In all the circumstances, we preferred the evidence of Mr Evra. His account was clear and
consistent in all material respects. There is no basis for saying that he lied or was mistaken
in what he heard. We found that Mr Evra's account is probably what happened"

"probably" ... lol biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by REDShaun: Jan 1 2012, 02:54 PM
SGSuser
post Jan 1 2012, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(REDShaun @ Jan 1 2012, 02:53 PM)
LOL quoting from a report taken to be sided with one persons account what probably happened? really?

The fact they put that out there already shows they are defending against it. doh.gif
*
LOL. It's not like the report did not state the reasons why the panel believed Evra's account of the incident was more likely.

Mr McCormick was Suarez's representative fyi. doh.gif

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