can you please provide a link to the seller or some seller info. I am willing to risk it for rm2400 in kl/pj. that's half the price quoted nowadays.

Err... All the documents are with my sisters. Will get from one of them. Tomorrow leaving for Singapore and will be back on Sunday. Till then.

By the way as you can see from the picture there is a copper coil, this mean tap water flow into the coil and get heated up by the tank water and then to the taps/shower. Another tap water supply to the tank control by a float like our toilet float machanism. The tank does not have a pressure relieve valve as when pressure/steam is generated it is release by the hot air exhaust pipe. There is no danger for high pressure tank that cause tank explosion. Because of the massive copper coil in the tank, the tank is much heavier than conventional solar tank.

There are 20 tubes, if you broke a tube and have no tube to replace (as said they will give you 2 spare tubes) you can seal the tube hole with silicon and use 19 tubes.

There are two types of vacuum tubes. One in the picture is the cheaper type simply a vacuum tube where sunlight heats up the water in the tube. Water will circulate inside the tube with cold water flow from the tank down and hot water rises back to the tank. This is the model I bought. The other is more expensive like micro solar where the vacuum tube will not have water but a copper rod. The sun heats the copper rod and transfer the heat to the water inside the tank. That means for the cheaper one there is a range of angle you have to install never beyond the recommended angle for water flowing freely in the tubes. The more expensive copper rod tube type has no problem how you place as there is no water flowing inside the tube. Also this type of heating need no direct sunlight, the copper rod will keep absorbing heat from surroundings even thought it is snowing!!! Any heat will be gained by the rod via vacuum to the rod. But here in our hot climate need no such, absolutely not necessary waste of money.

one thing i must warn you, the vacuum tube on the inside can be boiling hot within minutes under hot sun. The tube got two layer of glass you will not feel the heat holding it on the outside but inside can be more than 100 degree C without water. you must not put the tubes under hot sun while installing. It has to be cover with thick black plastic sheet, not old newspaper as the sunlight can penetrate the paper and heat the tube inside. Fixed the tube at last after all piping. But you got to fixed a few (4) tubes during the installation of the tank and bracket, adjusting them. After which take the tubes out and complete your installation then fit the tubes and quickly turn the water flowing into the tank. Be careful it is thin glass, it breaks. So, take the whole box up the roof and open it up there and then.

We used to import goods from china the price is good and margin is high but there are several problems and we find it time consuming trying to solve it with our supplier so we stop and only sell reliable brands nowadays. Here are some of the some of the problems we faced
1) Ordered 10" rain shower head, we got 9.5"
2) Ordered LED shower heads but 2 out of 10 not working
3) Took us 1 month+ to receive the replacement parts

If not mistaken the RM1800 cheaper model u bought is similar to Solar Wave & Microsolar system (water travels into the tube) but Mircosolar has an additional pipe in their tube to prevent mixing of hot and cold water & also for better thermosyphoncycle. Solar Power on the other hand is the expensive type (there is no water in the tubes) where by water travels through a manifold instead of the tube, hence the tubes are leak proof

If not mistaken the model u bought should b the same spec as solar wave whereby the storage tank thickness is only 0.5-0.7mm, thatz is why it is so cheap

This post has been edited by zheilwane: Sep 26 2013, 08:05 AM

Do you guy come across the Solar Power X from PowerLite Global?
is it same as the L60 and L80 of Solar Power?
Solar Power have the Similar Effective Model, concern above installation and After Sales.

This post has been edited by Lerner: Sep 29 2013, 05:23 PM

Please contact Bavani at
oem1@oemacc.com

There is no high pressure in the tank for this design as you can see there is a small refill tank and exhaust pipe, and also the coil where tank water and hot water outlet dont mixed therefore need no thick tank, is not an issue.

thank you very much for that information.

Introducing the new SOLAR POWER X mode : L66 (only available in selected dealers)
Just drop by our showroom for more info & latest promotion



This post has been edited by zheilwane: Oct 19 2013, 10:08 AM

reviving an old but very interesting & informative thread. hope all previous contributors to thread can still comment.

after going through all 23 pages, i think i've come to some sort of conclusion.

i'm getting the keys to my 2.5 storey house in 2 months time. doing some planning work and a friend suggested i should really consider solar water heater.

many talked about solar water heater (diff brand and technology), gas water heater, electric...but not many talking about hybrid water heater where u can help reduce cost for Air Con units plus water heating (e.g. microsolar - Solar Air Conditioning) or Pecol's Aircon heat powered storage water tank (eliminate cost of water heater electricity)

any comments? or suggestions? whether these systems actually works?

also, PB-1 (polybutene) pipes is okay to be used in replacement of copper pipes?
what about polyethylene (PE) raised temp (PERT) by hansen? its quoted as max 95deg C and 4bar@70deg C. dun understand...
95deg C max working temperature is ok?

This post has been edited by wa1k3r: Nov 19 2013, 04:58 PM

Look like you have done a lot of reading.

Talking about hybrid. What if you do not use aircond for a day and how are you going to save? Still solar is absolutely free except for the cost of capturing the energy. Hybrid are not popular here and I afraid not many people can give you the feedback.

About pipes. Why do you want these "new" pipes for hot water? Price, better heat insulation, flexibility in installation? Why would you want something you are not sure when you know copper pipe can take more than 100 deg C and more than 4 bar the new thing can do?

I still prefer solar water heater and instead of copper pipe, I prefer the thin stainless steel pipe with copper fittings.

Cheers

did quite a bit of reading indeed

main reason why i'm interested in these hybrid system is i know majority of my electricity consumption now is Air Con and Water Heater (am using electric storage water tank now)

and once moved to the new place, i know the AC consumption is gonna increase tremendously (in law will be around to take care of my kids during the day)

so, any ways of saving the cost of either one interests me.

i'm aware not many ppl actually venture into these hybrid, just dunno why. i've sent microsolar an email enquiry. see what's the reply like.

ohh, btw, to answer your question, even if you dun switch on AC for a day, you're still getting the solar water heater function...in reality, unless the temperature outside drops to <10deg C, there's no way the AC is not switched on. even during rainy days the AC is switched on

re the pipes, price is one major concern. was told the PB1 pipes are much cheaper than copper pipes. also, am extremely worried about the jointing quality as these pipes will all be buried/concealed behind... wall. my friend's place uses ABS pipes (cold water) and less than 1 year move in, about 2-3 leakages at multiple locations. the new plumber now recommend he replace all ABS with HDPE pipes

it seems there's a lot of issues with copper pipes (hammer noise, creep etc) that ppl just live with.
i might just give the PERT pipes a try..depending on the cost of course...

thanks for your comments!!!

Hammer noise is installation issue, nothing much on copper or SS. Copper and SS still the safest bet for hot water, because is around for long.

For you friend case, the contractor maybe using lower number PVC pipe, I remember the pipe have number from 1 to 7, 1 thinness and 7 being thickest. Usually house water use #6

The hybrid was started in Singapore sometime back, i wonder why it never really kick off. The installation are complex, and maybe cost are higher too. Maybe you can try and feedback us after sometime of usage.

on microsolar & solarmate which one give the best efficiency?

One thing to consider for landed is if redoing bathroom plumbing and toilet because of copper piping and installation of water pump, consider separating the plumbing for toilet from shower and basin. This can be made by running a single pipe from the tangki and tee it off to MBR and 2/3BR toilet with a stop cock (best) or 2 stop valve where the T branches off in either direction. This reduces the chances of WC inlet from water hammer issues.

Reserve the pump just for shower/bath or basin water pressure.

Yes, Thermomax air cond water heater in SG didn't take off not that the product is not good but the layout of HDB flats and condo for placement of compressors and air cond piping is more complicated as it is here. This has to be taken into account early in the architectural specification for a consolidated area where compressors are within proxmity of the toilets. My old condo had that right for MBR and 2nd bedroom/study A/C. Had I known about that earlier, I would have installed either PECOL or Elton Ignis a/c water heater since the two toilets are side by side. Installing a 60l tank is easy above that with the additional support to account for the weight.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Dec 5 2013, 10:27 AM

wa1k3r, your proposals are sound for landed: combining solar water heater (SWH) with air cond water heater (ACWH) as backup. With the humidity here, yes even I turn a/c on rainy days just to feel dry. One other caveat: unless the product is rated as such, only R22 refrigerant based should be used. R410a inverters may not be suitable. Except of course you're thinking of solar air conditioning which uses their own unit.

As far as I know combining SWH with ACWH is ideal, on paper. ACWH works fine on its own in condos, shoplots and hotels. On implementation of SWH with ACWH, it's not trivial task as a lot of consideration is needed to ease maintenance and avoid future pains from leakages much later. At this point after much pondering and opinion by plumber sifus some either consider SWH alone with a sole backup electric water heater (EWH) or just two ACWH with no solar heater to avoid the complications that arise or just go with solar air cond plus storage water heater.

A. Placement: SWH feed into ACWH or the other way round.
Advantage and disadvantage of both is:
SWH -> ACWH
1. On cold days it downmixes temp of ACWH which means unless a/c is turned on, there's virtually no hot water.
2. On hot days it upmixes temp of ACWH which is not ideal. This is the greatest disadvantage of this placement and why it should not be considered. It will take its toll on the AC compressor which will work even harder.
3. Most cases, it's easier pipe joints from SWH outlet (copper) to ACWH inlet (copper) without hassle of a union joint. Explained later.

ACWH -> SWH
1. On cold days, if a/c is turned on, it brings up the temp of the water in the SWH just like a backup water heater.
3. On hot days, it supplies the SWH with pre-heated water making hot water within a short time.
3. Union joints required as the material use to join disimilar pipes. The use of union joint pipes is crucial connecting between ACWH and SWH as most ACWH outlet are copper and some models of SWH specify stainless steel inlet. Otherwise rusting will occur as one becomes the sacrifical anode. This is where most leakages occur after a long while. So, care has to take this into account and have stop valves strategically located to faciliate replacement. One model of ACWH (Elton Ignis) have a 4 branch manifold to distribute up to 4 outlets. Unless this can be remove to just provide a single outlet the other three either has to be closed off or use for kitchen, laundry and downstairs bath. Complicated?
4. Potential leakage spots - water pump pressure to drive water to SWH from ACWH may cause leaks over time due to water hammer issue esp if a distribution manifold is present and not removable. As such avoid these models which may be suited for condo, apartments and hotels.

B. Tank size
For one ACWH, a branch off from the water pump cold supply plus a check valve is needed so that the hot water does not flow back into the cold supply line.

Tank size should be a function of AC HP, duration of AC usage and frequency of hot water usage. Higher AC HP and longer usage duration needs bigger tank to absorb the waste heat. Otherwise the AC will work harder after 4 hours. There's a trade off point and all this has to do with water volume and how much heat it can take off the compressor. On cold days, hot water is used more but on hot days? Unless hot water for kitchen, laundry down stairs bath is considered which lends to higher installation costs.

Complication comes when say you require two ACWH to maximise heat recovery from 3 BRs and living room. Since most tank can only take two AC compressors. In this case another 'surge tank' like an Electric or gas WH tank needs to be there to hold pre-heated water before feeding it to SWH. Here the water pump needs to be strong to drive cold water through the ACWH inlet, outlet and finally into SWH tank. It needs to be pump driven, making the system pressurized. Where there is pressure, potential for leakages abounds. Check valves, stop valves and pressure reducing valves are needed to ensure constant water pressure that does not exceed SWH and ACWH structural pressure limits. This itself already lends to pontential leakage spots.

C. Water pump
Spec is crucial. Any branch off to drive to ACWH reduces cold water pressure to POU. For one, the water pump needs to feed cold water in and drive the heated water out to the solar heater in the roof. Something like a Softjet 4 or equivalent is needed even for a 2 bath as each ACWH behaves like a POU.

D.Plumbing and plumbing material spec
The planning for the plumbing is crucial esp if ACWH should come later after the solar water heater is installed. Specifically check valves and bypass from water pump or incoming Syabas line should be planned in the design. Strategically placed stop valves also for troubleshooting and maintenance with careful selection of plumbing material to ensure durability of piping and minimise leakges esp from a pressurized system.

Pipe options to consider possible could be:
Cold Hansen pipes. Sold here as well.
Cold inlet supply to xWH - follow manufacturer spec
Hot - I would agree with steve8 on copper or stainless steel. These last longer. If your place has long runs from hot water down pipe to the toilets, consider insulating them with a urethane sleeve.

If the house is old development like before 1990s, chances are GI pipes may still be in used. These are a ticking time bomb as mine has proven to be. Had to have an ugly pipe running along the wall as mine leaked after two years of using water pump. Hammer noise is usual but if the unit is old and if the old plumbing is being replaced, consider segregating WC from bath/shower/basin from water pump. This protects WC supply inlet from pump pressure surge which leads to leakages and overflows of the water cistern. PVC for WC line is ok with one line from tangki supplying both bathrooms with a stopcock at each WC inlet POU and one stop valves at each branch tee. Why should refilling toilet water run the pump unnecessarily?

Now you know what's ahead of you if this is the considered path, I hope you have fun and happy renovating plus share the journey too.

my comment might be not related to the topic, but just want to know whether only me or the fact that room with good tile can save our electricity bill by having ability to retain room coolness?

found it different with previously laminated floor with newly install tile. much more cool.

not sure good for health or not.

I don't like the feeling of my cool feet when get down from the bed.

will check it out.
so far always wake up late n rush to work. Got no time to feel it.

but, can set few higher degree on aircond for the same level of coolness, which mean can save a bit on electricity.