http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662



It is a weird patch. What is the reason behind for the cost reduction for Protoss upgrade? It's seem it come from nowhere, although the EMP nerf is justified.

The rise of Protoss!

Seriously? How?

EMP

cheaper upgrades! LOL

Does 0.5 really makes a huge difference? Sure that Protoss has a harder time to deal with Ghost in the late game, but this patch didn't solve the infamous 1/1/1 build. The Ghost is not even needed when you can destroy Protoss with 1/1/1 in the early game.

cheaper upgrades plus EMP nerf = 0.05% winning rate difference.. LOL

I guess someone has to try the PTR and tell us the results.

1-1-1 had not been super popular lately in TL streams, seemed like the terrans go back to their ghost bio play.

There are various threads out there that helps with dealing the 1/1/1. The huge factor is scouting it coming. The 2nd huge factor is not overmaking stalkers and delay the push with your initial stalkers, try to pick off some units before the camp outside your base.

still it all comes down to practice. get a terran friend and force him to do that to you every game! don't forget to belanja him makan for all his hard work GLGL!

on-topic: YESSSSSS!! IT'S DOUBLE FORGE TIME!

ghost - EMP , stalker - blink --- EMP missed

The rise of Protoss!

Protoss rejoice HAHAHAHA

now can do +2 timing attack also

shield upgrades will still be underused...
i'm more concerned for ZvP,since upgraded shields may spell more roach pwnage by immortals...

emp negate it in PvT but it ognna be huge in PvZ since shields do affect buildings as well if i am not mistaken...

it also prevent archons from being wtfbbqpwned by lings >.<

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 26 2011, 06:54 PM

Your point? EMP shouldn't need to get nerf?

yes,shield upgrades also affects buildings.n workers.n all other toss units..
thus make them more potent to make toss ball of death.with the buff on upgrade cost for those shields,even a 0/1/1 probe can win 0/1 drone if both were to attack at the same time...

so,another tip for smurfers..go all-in mass probes with full 0/3/3 upgrades.even no-upgraded lings or marines having a hard time killing them (lings 5dmg,marines 6dmg versus probes 6 armor)

i think better nerf range,since almost all terran units (apart from scv of course) have ranged attacks..

not sure if troll.

---

Added on October 26, 2011, 10:44 pmyou know it doesnt work that way, right?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Oct 26 2011, 10:44 PM

How is a troll, may I ask?

lol if probe got 6 armor, why the emphasize on Ultralisk armor?

you do know protoss as a race is pretty sadding and they rely a ton on their upgrades (read: rely. i dont see other races even need to rely on their +'s that much) right?

Well, if you surf the NA Blizzard Forum, many people want Blizzard to buff protoss units. None of them ever suggesting Blizzard to buff the upgrades. So, when Blizzard buffing the upgrades instead of protoss units, many people including me is like "why is Blizzard doing this? What is the basis behind this? Why upgrades instead of units"

Well, it doesn't matter actually. If the protoss buff upgrades make it to the game, Blizzard going to tell us the reason why they did that eventually.

having more upgrades.... isnt that a blessing?

other race want to upgrade also dont have.

no ppl in their right mind will target stalkers with emps... even if so it'd require good micro to dodge the emps. Ppl usually emp HT, sentries, archons and massed chargelots...

don't tell me u always emp stalkers...

i rather they increase storm range than the emp radius, and with the cheaper upgrade now, protoss can throw down 3 forges and chronoboast weapon, armour, shield upgrade simultaneously

and due to the immortal buff protoss tend to get double robo for immortal only and fast 3rd

To be honest.... I'm a protoss... and the only problem i face with terran is Ghost EMP range.. other than that it's ezzy pezzy, in most of the time... because of the ghost... it forces me to go for colossus tech.. =_=... yea right.... spread the ht... but the thing is terran doesn't usually push out with 1 single ghost.. =_=... the only trick i tried that is successful is the HT ferry with warp prism... but even with the shield buff... it's still pretty easy to be target down before the speed upgrade

This post has been edited by Death_Scythe: Oct 27 2011, 11:05 AM

even better, let stalkers walk in front and kill the ghost.

btw i was just having fun

This post has been edited by FLampard: Oct 27 2011, 12:24 PM

>2011
>emp zealots over stalkers

ISHYGDDT

pro protoss research blink and walk in front with stalker to bait an emp or snipe some ghost infront and blink back to get the zealot from behind charge into the front line to engage the terran army

pro terran will scan and emp b4 engage

lol terran keep getting nerfed every freaking patch... "

even so terran still owning GSL

As long as MULE is untouchable, they can get all the nerf patches and Terran will still obliterate Protoss and Zerg.

this call convert anger into strength~

not before long before prince of zerg, stephano rises now with ruhless mass speedling, infestor n ultralisk play.... the 1st time i seen such hyper aggresive zerg shuld play and how i think zerg shuld be played.im suprise wif all toss buff no new prince rises to crush all terran opposition and rule for many days to come

wow this one... this is good quality joke we have here!

have you considered a career as a comedian?

I prefer not, the day he becomes a comedian, I might see your name on top of GSL standings, and yes, thats after i'm done rubbing my eyes.

watching stephano n drg play zerg makes me feel zerg very OP. Nestea very god? Not sure, I like stephano n drg more,

u think im joking bro? nowadays the only way for me to beat protoss is by cheesing 5 proxy rax... or 111 bunker in front of enemy natural style.... no way to early harrass whats more wif increasing barracks built time.

okay man.

nestea plays intelligently but stephano and DRG just play ruthlessly it makes MarineKingPrime against him at recent tournament seems like a noob joke. those cracklings are like ants millions of thewm when they get obliterated juz look how many seconds he need to remax again at 200/200 with all those mining base. the only way i think opponent can beat him is early game either all in or cheesing. once he get to 3 base its no freaking chance.

reading this thread scares me (as a protoss player)
i guess that is how zerg is meant to be played

SPAM! SWARM!

Terran is still IMBA thanks to ghost (1 emp protoss GG)

Really? I was with the impression that early Marine Marauder micro can murder anything the Protoss can throw at you on the field if properly micro'd.

Yes, that means even against Collosi and Templar.

its just remove the shield wif small radius. and its only 100 energy shields, not like before. emp can't even kill ur units like feedback do. not a very good terran will mess up their ghost opener built order, overproduce them and eventhou spam emp there were no base army big enuf to take care of them. the protoss simply rolls over them.

Here's a few fun facts about Protoss.

1. Shields constitute HALF of the health a Protoss unit has
2. EMP affects EVERY single Protoss unit
3. Protoss shields do not regenerate during battle
4. EMP has that side effect of taking out the energy of a Protoss unit. Proper EMP will make Sentries and Templars become as useful as faulty condoms.
5. Feedback is useless against anything that doesn't have energy. Which means that you can't feedback Marines no matter how hard you're hammering at that F key
6. Psionic Storm needs to be researched and requires 75 energy. They removed Khaydarin Amulet, so no more insta-warpstorms. EMP on the other hand. requires no research and Ghosts can research whatever it is that is needed to boost their starting energy.
7. Templars move at the speed of a snail, can't cloak, and doesn't have an attack. Ghosts can cloak, move relatively fast, and can shoot normally.
8. You can micro out of a Storm, you can't micro out of an EMP.

And besides, if you overcommitted to Ghosts in the first place, you deserve to lose.

This post has been edited by radkliler: Nov 8 2011, 01:27 AM

most protoss units have around 100 shields only which emp severely remove...
for tat radius, u are looking at around 1-2k worth of instant burst shield damage for a well placed emp (more if there's colo/ air units)...
and ghost are supporting units =.=
it is the same as u making ntg but sentries lolx...

this are the race winrate according to TLPD: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...topic_id=283186

protoss are still the official weakest race in sc2

1. not really. zealot hp is 100, shields 50. if im not mistaken same thing wif immortal or colo. their hp/shield ratio is not 50/50.
2. psi storm effect evry singl unit terran or zerg has. wif smaller radius now it takes multiple ghost to effectively spam and cover a big deathball army. its not like 1 emp covers all deatball. storm covers a decent area and a decent terran player will nvr have good enuf micro to outmanouvered all those psi storm spam espcially in mid to late game battle deathball vs deathball. at dat time terrans will have thor, tanks, medivac in their army disrupting, blocking rapid movement of stim and how do u outmanouvered that?
3. have seen adelscott abuse dat by using blinking stalkers. engaging terran army bit by bit and blink away and regenerate and do it again. marine and mara will be exhausted by overstimming ata point whr medivac doesnt come yet.
4. my condolences :/
5. feedback easily kill those massive and hi tech units like battlecruisers, thor, banshee, dat could be gamechanger u know?
6. ghost cloak need to be research as well and they are still easily exposed by a observer following ur death army.
7. ghost too if u notice, move at a normal speed. they cant stim and run away when things not good.stalker easily catches them. shoot normally? they shoot every 1.5 seconds and to none light unit the damage is only 10.

well it seems u have very deep scars tragedy against terran using ghost. not gonna argue more wif u thr. i suppose ur refering emp need to be removed?

---

Added on November 8, 2011, 1:51 amlol sentries easily FF any early marine mara harrass. if that early harras doesnt do any damage, terran are gonna be behind.

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Nov 8 2011, 01:51 AM

1) stalkers are kinda the backbone for protoss army. and they are exact 50/50. oh and no shield stalkers only take 4 shots from marauders to kill. guess what happens after stim pack? if you're still gonna be so anal on the shield to hp ratio, i will just put out archons.
2) what, you're gonna sit in the storm and watch your shit die? and what, "decent terran player will never have a good enuf micro" WHAT IS THIS MAN. you're saying decent terran player just 1a2a3a OH WAI-
3) terran can just sit in their base and 2-3 cc like mvp does even without 2nd base and call mules like a fag and get medivacs out EZ even on 1 base. what then? you're gonna say terran bio still overstim and cause medivac to run out of energy? oh just in case, energy DOES REGEN DURING BATTLE
4) at least your not 7/7 blind, just 6/7. that aint so bad, right?
5) *EASILY kills* its like implying there are no ghosts to emp the templars, or snipe them to hell before they can even snail their way in for FBs. or thors just requiring TWO shots (assuming you are only capable of building just one thor) to thor hammer a templar to death. and like, BCs fly, and they are kinda faster than templars. just saying. banshees are definitely faster than templars, fly, and can cloak, and can kill a templar in like what, 3 hits? 4 maybe if 3 armor 3 shield upgrade? do correct me on this if im wrong, really.
6) scan (or emp the observer if you're THAT classy) > kill observer. OH SHIT WHERES MY DETECT NOW. oh and implying terrans actually *need* their cloak
7) you're not making sense cuz... sentries and templars are still slower than ghosts, they cant stim either, sentry does piss for dmg regardless of target armor, templars... still cannot attack. (does merging archon count? LOL!)

and no, it's not just emp, if its just emp, terran wouldnt be raping zerg's ass either. please do refer to the win/loss chart thats linked /sigh

1. Then there are also units like the Archon which has 350/10 or Templars that are 80/40

2. Except Psi Storm radius is similar to pre-nerf EMP radius. And the whole point of the nerf is to reduce the EMP radius because frankly, its retarded that 2 Ghosts can blanket spam EMPs and roll the Protoss army over. And while you say that is hard to micro out of storms for a decent Terran (which I find laughable since if you are a decent Terran, you'd be able to micro out of a storm easily), it is impossible to micro out of EMP. You can split up your units to minimize the effect EMP has on your units, but still, it is a given that one group of units will have its shields and energy drained. Storms can only kill your units if you let it, EMP will reduce your shields even if you try to micro from it.

3. And your point is? He decided to do a timing attack in which Terrans have not yet get Medivacs.

5. You don't mass units such as Battlecruisers, Thors and Banshees. You use those units to complement your marines, marauders, ghosts, siege tanks or what-have-you into your build. And remember, Cloaking then EMP-ing Templars will make Feedback a non-issue since the Templars all have their energy drained.

6. Templars are exposed all the time.

7. Templar has 1.875 move speed. Compared that to a Marine's 2.25, a non-stimmed Marine can kill a Templar easily.

This post has been edited by radkliler: Nov 8 2011, 02:16 AM

for those who are lazy to click on the link


ps: any protoss here nt a member of the sad zealot fanclub yet? yes the race is so pathetically weak tat we have a mascot for it since september lolx (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267497)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 8 2011, 02:21 AM

2. do u think all terran is gonna go bio against protoss? what about those all mech type, marine mech or even 111? wht i mean is maybe u can get away wif ur marine or mara in red but what about ur tanks, thor? ur offensive bunker? tell me how u outmanouvered those siegeing tanks and clunky moving thors?

3. bro spamming mules is only gonna get mineral faster and u can't elevate the rate of gas collecting. u expect terrans to mass up marine or hellion to get fry by colossus?

4. u can spam psi storm and kill those deathball to death but can it be done with ghost? over emping wont do shit to already emp enemy units.

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Nov 8 2011, 02:33 AM

the joys of playing random all day erry day. 33.3% i get to terran it up and MMM 1a 2a 3a tttttttttt

---

Added on November 8, 2011, 2:41 am2) sure! DONT GO BIO. GET SIEGE TANKS/BANSHEES SO TEMPLARS DIE BEFORE THEY STORM.
if you didnt knew, 111 MTBR timing push kills a protoss before he can even templar. but hey, he could just temp archives and get a templar without storm! welp there goes your chance in finding those pesky banshees desolating your mineral line. oh and just so you know, your offensive bunker cant get storm. storm doesnt affect buildings

3) umm, you do know that you can get early gas with your walls safely, and mule to compensate the early scv's invested on gas, right? and how much gas you need to spend? 25 for a tech lab, 100 for stim, 200 for fac/starport, 50 for a reactor (if you just want a god damn med vac fast, this can even be skipped!) then 100 for a medivac. am i missin out anything?

for protoss, lets see, stalkers, sentries. HAHA DONE.
just for the record: 50gas warp tech (dont even try to argue that this can be skipped), 100 for robo, 200 for bay, 200 for lance, another 200 for the colo.

thats all provided you dont stalker, dont sentry, and you are still alive when you get your colo because quite frankly, medivacs are much faster and cheaper to achieve than a colo. (total 475 vstotal 750)
oh dont even give me the "but they dont require lance!" crap.

4) >spam psi storm
ISHYGDDT

and really, i can dodge storms, but i cant dodge emp. 1-2k shield dmg a ton more painful than.... few hundred actual dmg provided you dodge properly, and THATS ALL ASSUMING YOU'RE ALL KIND AND FORGIVING LEAVING THE SAD TEMPLAR ALONE and not shoving some u-238 slugs or arclite shock rounds into his face.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 8 2011, 02:44 AM

Patch is up! Terran got nerf

(Y)

You should be happy dude brotoss, why are you showing fail smile?

wtf terran players so imba.

so imba?

you have been fool by the scale of the graph. that graph is extremely misleading. I'm good at creating this kind of graph too be honest. Look carefully at the number. For TvZ, Terran 52%, Zerg 48%. It means out of 100 games, Terran winning 52 games and Zerg winning 48 games. Imba? Even Genting Casino u cant get thing 50/50. TvP is not that far away too, 53.9% vs 46.1%.

Even you wanna take account into the most imba matchup here, ZvP. zerg's bar looks so high, protoss so low. At a first glance, it seems to me like Zerg winning 80% and Protoss winning only 20% but if u look at the number, the gap I believed is only slightly larger than it's standard deviation.

I don't know the real motive of this graph creator here, but to be more profressional, the cut off point shldn't start from 40% as shown in this graph. The scale of graph chosen is only to exaggerated the MU % here.

1.4.3
Terran:
EMP is now removed

going leaps and bounds to defend his race. admirable

i m not interested in QQ or defending anymore. I didn't say Terran is not the winner here, just the graph is misleading. Pl read the facts b4 reply. don't make yourself looks like an idiot.

i did spent the 1 or 2 minute to read that long wall o text, and no, that graph isnt misleading one bit. it displays stats, and that's that. if you're perspective are so skewered to claim its misleading, then so be it. because you arent QQ or defending, right? so you shouldn't have any problems with a mere graph thats suposedly misleading, yes?

going leaps and bounds to defend a difference of 2-4%? admirable

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 8 2011, 05:35 PM

that is not misleading . is depend how u analisys the graph.

1)terran have highest winning rate, even is few % but already we can conclude Terrans is the easy race to win .

maybe terran is not over power . but it is sure more power than other race .!

Do you aware that 2%~4% difference is huge for a statistic?

Do you aware

Yes i am aware when you use the word percent its actually based on 100. 2% means 2/100 4% means 4/100.

haha. really nobody understand? or nobody wanna understand? I fee like I'm a fool to talk in this forum. Is like talking bout how good Android are in the iPhone forum. Bye then...

yea this forum is full of kid. too affraid to admit fact . sigh ..

and they think they are good . acuatly is the race win them the games .

if u are diamond using op race . u should be in gold using not op race lol.

This post has been edited by siu_ling: Nov 8 2011, 07:30 PM

I am in bronze, my friend. So if i change race, i shud be silver, i assume?

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 8 2011, 07:35 PM

Obviously Jeff VIP is the smartest person in this forum...I am sorry for being incompetent. Seriously



You are Terran player, right? then you will be placement league, not silver if you switch race.

This post has been edited by kding2: Nov 8 2011, 07:50 PM

Why u make personal attack now.....

In reply to your statement, i prefer to call myself a "Human" player more than a "terran" player...

I didn't attack you personally.

What's is below Bronze? Placement league, not silver. I just correct it for you.

I am apologize if you think my remark offended you.

Actually back in beta, you got copper league as the lowest and platinum as the highest

u didnt attack me, im talking about jeffvip lar....u see he mad liao

this forum suppose to be much better than Wow right cause any forums related to Wow sure gets very heated one.

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 8 2011, 09:50 PM

and i am under the impression that 4gate utterly destroys early marine marauder.

go give it a shot then, 5 or 10 games and tell me how many games you win

its true, if u micro properly of coz...

but u dun expect 4 gate to work all the time and be able to counter anything....if that happens then protoss is the faceroll race...

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 8 2011, 11:29 PM

comments in red.

This post has been edited by dakwahgandist: Nov 8 2011, 11:46 PM

christ hesoos
baka keseluruhan

anyone wanna have the honors instead? im too tired coming home from work 10ish pm, after a whole day staring at wall of text unix/linux/solaris terminals.

1. Stalkers are meant to sit in the back? What?

2. Marines are squishy, yes. I wouldn't call Marauder's squishy, nor Siege Tanks. If you bring pure Marines to fight an army with HTs in it, guess what? Sucks to be you. And if you can't micro Marauder's out of storms, guess what? Really sucks to be you.

3. If a Protoss unit loses 50 hp, that's 50 hp that is lost forever. We may regen shields, but we sure as hell don't heal hp damage. Come back when medivacs and SCVs can't heal/repair. Also, Protoss are supposed to be the race with pricey but sturdy stuff, so you'll forgive me if I wonder why you're harping on the fact that Terran units have less hp than Protoss ones.

4. EMP may not kill anything on its own, but it sure helps make killing Protoss a lot easier. Come on, don't tell me dealing 100 dmg to ALL units hit by EMP isn't good. Damage done is damage done, regardless of whether it kills or not.

5. Again, why are you sending pure Marines to a tier 3 fight? What, you didn't know you could make other stuff? Oh ok.

6. Again, damage done is damage done.

7. You do know that there's this whole warp in cooldown thing attached to warping in units right? What, we aren't supposed to add that to the calculation? Not this retarded argument again? Please? Also, if a ghost runs out of energy, its still a pretty useful unit, doing decent damage to light units. HTs with no energy are about as useful as critters on the maps. That is why HTs can combine. Take away the ghost's ranged attack and then you can talk about combining 2 of them into some weird Siamese mutant monster.

8. Marines to a tier 3 fight. Bringing Marines to fight the unit designed to counter them. Come on, you're making me cry. And why on earth are you EMPing probes? You can friggin shoot them if your ghost is in range to EMP, geez.

What do you mean Protoss aren't punished for building anything? Last I heard, the deathball is (ironically) dead. Anything the Protoss army can build, the Terran army can counter. Lots of Stalkers? Get Marauders. Lots of Immortals? Get Marines. And to answer your question: Ghost counter's the entire protoss army, and Vikings counter the entire Protoss air fleet, plus Colossi.

i thought not so long ago ppl said that marines are the most OP units? so why not? since they are so overpower who needs tier 3?

1. It constitutes half of a Protoss units life because Protoss do not regenerate health like Terrans do. Any damage that happens on the unit itself is permanent. If I were to pull back my forces which are either in the red or yellow, its going to remain in the red or yellow till it dies. Also, we have to upgrade both Shields and Armor just to be on equal terms on upgrades which Terran's require only one upgrade for.

2. Storms are detrimental only to Bio. If you went mech, you'll find out very quickly that storming Thors/Hellions/Sieges is retarded.

3. Like I said, Terrans can heal back all 120 hit points while Protoss can't.

4. There is a reason the tactic is named MMMG. It stands for Marine, Marauder, Medivac, Ghosts. Ghosts EMP the Shields and energy off a Protoss unit, Marauders and Marines stim in and kill everything. You don't send Ghosts in just to spam EMP all day waiting to kill something.

5. Except for the fact that you can run out of a Storm? And you can heal off the damage of a Storm while the Templar is still chasing you down? And you can keep baiting the Templars to Storm just to waste its energy before you run in and kill it?

6. Storms are ineffective against Mech. Try it sometimes.

7. Except that Ghosts are still cheaper than Templars in comparison.
Here's how the tech tree goes for Ghosts : Depot --> Barracks ---> Ghost Academy
And you can still get a Factory and Starport out.
Protoss tech goes a little like this : Gateway --> CyberCore --> Council ---> Archives
And here's the kicker about Protoss, they are insanely gas intensive. So if I invest in this tech route, you won't be seeing me going Collosi till I take a 3rd or a 4th or I decide to just abandon Temps completely. And if I did abandon it altogether, I just wasted a shitload of gas for Archives, Storm research and the few Temps I made. Also Archons are 350/10, so 3 EMPs would literally, devastate an Archon.

8. EMP is a support spell, Storm is an Offensive spell. Is that so hard to differentiate? Oh just in case you didn't know, Ghosts can Snipe.

And are you seriously implying that Terran can't A-move as well? MMMG is basically A-move. Here's how it works.

Cloak Ghosts ---> EMP Sentries ----> Press T on hotkey-ed Bioball ---> 1a2a3a

Congratulations, you've just beat the Protoss.

they still are so long you either:

1) micro well/better than your opponent
2) not doing stupid shits like running into storms/fungal growths/siege tanks

regardless how op they are, blizzard still designed units that counter them (welp, tier 1 units needing counters), and still training MUHREENS while your opponent does nothing but do things that counter marines, is just asking for a lost

Good that u just realise about the part where everything has a counter and it is meant to be that way. So winning is all about countering what your opponent is doing, knowing ur own/enemy's weakness and strength, and using ur strength to attack his weakness.

If you think Marines are balanced because they have counters in a tier 3 unit (HTs or Colossi), then I also have nothing to say anymore. Winning SHOULD be about countering your opponent, but what else in the Protoss arsenal effectively counters a 111?

wait ya:

If u have nothing to say, thats because u know u dun have a good reason to support your stance.

Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories. - Sun Tze


I suggest u start to get to know urself and ur enemy, L2p.



yeap

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 9 2011, 12:52 AM

Ooo, nice counter, but actually, I have nothing to say because the sheer stupidity of the statement doesn't deserve any reply.

but u did.

He said you're stupid, if that makes you feel better.

I dont really care about personal attacks on the internet...really ..keyboard warrioring behind a screen?... been there done that..

I am happier discussing things in a much mature manner actually, but ppl always have a thing about video games and things got heat up.

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 9 2011, 01:01 AM

Did I bring up arguments and try to make you see why needing tier 3 to deal with Marines is ridiculous? No. Instead, I get sucked into some smart arsed argument where you make nonsensical posts without actually arguing anything. If that makes you feel smarter and better, then yay! Hooray! God knows I get enough of this crap talking to Quaz.

Sheesh.