my very short simple version of my post

barca tiki taka exist for quite many seasons and teams already getting the hang to deal with it while mourinho's madrid still on 2nd year

and squad depth and rotation of madrid is superior than barca seeing barca has to play players out of position (Masch, Busquet) rather than ordinary CBs when puyol/pique unavailable while Madrid can sub/rotate without compromising much of the quality of starting 11

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Added on January 12, 2012, 1:26 amand as for Real vs Barca

I think psychologically Real is inferior to Barca after being taught so many

lessons in the past regardless of new players coming in

eg. Ronaldo is just his shadow self when playing against Barca (missing chances he wont miss in other games)

Mourinho probably conservative to go all out ( he is scare to lose than want to win - as suggested by journalist )

so basically i think u disagree with the points of ur fellow mate

This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 01:26 AM

hi there, to lolseriuschen,

i understand ur frustration regarding our performance in la liga.. we hv drawn few games already, losing points up to 5 now against our arc rival madrid. me too felt that any teams especially in laliga this season, whenever they up against us, they giv like 200% of efforts trying to beat us, by any mean necessary, be it by parking d bus n counter, or brute force, watever method, u named it. from my point of view, altho somtime im annoyed by the opponent's method used against us, i actually impress and admired their spirits. they want to beat us badly, we r the world best currently n it is a very great honor to get a draw or even a win against us. howeva, regarding ur theory or so call fact bout other teams want to c us fall badly n giv opportunities to RM, i dun really agree. if it really was the case, i mean otha team want to c us fall n willingly to make RM champ or get the advantage against us, it was a big conspiracy.. but i doubt so.

i blieve otha teams especially in laliga, they hv been workin on how to defeat tiki taka style, defeat us all these years.. tzxsean statement did has a point. our tactic so far has been near perfect but in football, notin is certain. there is a 'luck' element too in football u ned to consider. u also hav to consider on how many games we need to play in this season, both domestic and international. so far we still doin great, winin 5 major cups during 2011 seasons. the cl, laliga, spanish supercup,uefa supercup, and recently fifa club world cup. we only missed copa dey ray, if not we will complete our 2nd sextuple. we also manage to beat RM in this season durin the first el classico despite an early goal from benzema. however, no matter how strong we are, fatigue will be a major factor for our squad.. there r also injuries that hit upon our players. affelay, vila, pedro, sanchez, iniesta, they all r in d list.. we are very lucky that febregas is actually performed incredibly for us n yet to suffer any injury at the moment..

lolseriuschen, never forget that Real Madrid is also a super strong team with a very strong lineup wit d special one as their coach.. u may hate cr7 n mauriho but their skill and tactics are no jokes.. we r also lucky that cr7 not really performed to his standard against us, coz if he does, we would hv trouble n may lose the first el classico.. back to otha teams not playin as serious as they faces us when they r up against RM, i can only say that it is RM dat play flawlessly n maximize their chances to win the games, look at their scores this season, they convert all the possible chances n they succeed. i also wana say that otha train so hard on how to beat us, n counter our tactic, they may hav forgotten that RM is also a very strong tactical team n need very good tactic to deal with them. this is where i say that otha team found a way to at least draw wit us, but dun really hv a plan to beat RM. or mayb they thought they already manage to get a draw against us makes them good enough to face RM, which is clearly a wrong idea.

so again lolseriuschen, if u r really a barcafan, hav faith wit our team, altho the chances a bit slim to win la liga especially lookin at RM current form, it is still long way to go. just be prepared mentally if our team lose especially against RM, i know it hard, it is painful to accept the lose against our arc rival, but that is football. n that is life. there is an up and down.. we could never possibly always on top, there wil b tym we wil stay lower. why i love barca so much is because they entertain me wit thier football, as long as they kept doin that, i always be their biggest fan even if they lose.

@tzxsean, i respect a fan like u, u hv a lot good reasoning in ur argument. a positive one from my point of view. we all a fan to our fav club, ofcoz sometime we wil get too emotional and come up wit stupid argument even among our friends. for example i always pissed wheneva people kept sayin we r cheatin, acting n stuff, yes i wont deny our flaw but our strength didnt lay on that.. we wont be the best in world wit just dat. for me i always opened n like a fan like u who we can share our opinion regardin both our team instead of some fan out there bluntly say whateva they want n be a sore loser. for me altho i dun really favor RM, i acknowledge their strength, i admit ur team is very strong and always a threat to our team. ur club history proved how strong ur club is. ur team n our team always be the top contender for the local title, so it can be urs or ours. i would say that both our teams r the strongest in d world, n we shud b proud of it. all i wan is for us fan r not hvin a stupid arguement n baseless point. n i always wan us to hv a fair n healthy competition against each otha. i also hope that no more drama from both team wheneva we met in el classico altho i doubt that as it is el classico after all.

finally i say like a gentlemen, may the best team win.

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Added on January 12, 2012, 1:47 amharap2 aku nye comment x kena tl:dr , first tym in all these years in lyn i type this long

hehe lolseriuschen, u sure has coz some chaos at our arc rival thread, u dun do that, it is like u go to otha people house, n then u marah2 them, say macam2 to them, for sure u wil get a beat up. i know u want to voice out ur opinion, but sikit2 sudahla, respect their house, their thread, u can always voice out here.

This post has been edited by uzary: Jan 12 2012, 01:55 AM

lol...last year i come kecoh sini cos the alves thing and pedro, masch and busquet faking abuse from real's player by covering face only

anyway i mainly support man utd ...real madrid secondary only ...

anyway one main thing y real madrid score so much is becos they take the chance and kill the game off

while I read reports that Barca wasted alot of chance

when u din kill the game off early , teams will always try to equalise

and many teams risk playing high def line against real madrid

hence pacy counter attack brought real alot of goal

which wad vintage man utd always do

and another thing with tiki taka, when u lot passing and get possession

opponent will have more time to get back and def and cover each other

if no decisive pass is being made to attempt on goal

p/s: althou i still dun like the 'anti-football' like tiki taka, barca is unarguably the best team in the world at this moment, but winning too many things at short period may have negative impact by reducing their hunger for victory as I mentioned. Lack of other tactic other than tiki taka is another problem too just like Arsenal. Change of formation is by no means change of tactic

Mourinho's problem is not because his team is newly assembled. 2 years is long enough for a manger to transmit his ideas to his team, especially for a coach as bright as him.

His problem is the kind of players he has in his disposal. There is no defensive players with great tactical mind who can anticipate our movements 1 or 2 steps earlier. I must say, this players: Pepe, Khedira, Lass, Marcelo, their defensive abilities are hugely overrated. Expecially Diarra. Quite honestly the reason we managed to control the midfield in Clasicos is because of Diarra's flaws. Pepe is thug, who solely depends on his aggresiveness. No brain, no, absolutely none.

Ramos is their best defensive player, but IMHO he too has sooo much too learn. And I've watch him a lot while playing for RM and Spain.

I don't believe squad depth is that important to build title winning teams. Evidence? Our team lah We are halfway into Pep's 4th season, and no season did we have such so-called strength in depth. But how many titles we won again? We won those titles with exactly the same player-repositioning system you mentioned. That's Pep's way of rotatiing system.

eh i think u got it wrong

i mean teams cant cope with real madrid cos the team is still new

not much reference and trial and error to be done in match with real madrid

as compared to barca's tiki taka

and the squad depth thing

i use it to counter why Barca struggle to win this season because many

main players injured and the substitutes quality is not very much the

same the player they replace so hence the fluactuations of forms

p/s: the use of busquet into ball playing cb role is quite good before tiki taka is being restrained by opponent

and with the current injury problem, exhaustion, the situation this time is abit different imho

as teams are getting points from Barca or Barca dropping them

This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 02:05 AM

there's no such things of "other teams take us more seriously than they up against RM"

RM tactics are more open which encourages opponent to try to attack them..i've seen atleast around 20 goals or so from RM from counter attack alone because they had superfast players like di maria, cr7 & etc.

Barca tactic was diff, people tends to park the bus because tiki-taka was abt frustrating the opponent with lots of passing...some teams wont kill their chances of taking a point by going the same gameplan like vs RM ..so they just need to wait and wait for killer pass of Barca and hopes to hack it off and put some decent counter attack.

if swiss beats spain, does not necessarily means they're the best team in the world (because beating world champion)..it's mostly because the tactics & maybe some lucks play some parts there...

frankly speaking, both ramos and pepe is not disciplined players

marcelo is used for attacking hence his defensive weakness is often overlooked

carvalho is gd but now old..no pace and fragile ...

as for diarra i think he is simply a ball winning midfield

non of tactical defensive player or sort

main problem is in alonso

if he's getting marked tightly or unavailable, there's problem in the game

flow of madrid...hopefully Sahin can replace him whenever he is unavailable or out of form

In LL alone there are 38 matches played. Include UCL and CDR and Super Cups. With that amount of matches, everybody know how RM play. Its just that RM players can be too pacey for LL teams.

One question, who played as CB for us against Man Utd last season?

In Rome final, what was our backline again?

Rotating position will not hurt the system, if it is implemented correctly.

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jan 12 2012, 02:15 AM

but 1 thing u have to remember

even the match can be analysed

not every teams' players are the same in attributes

so wad were done by other teams cant be implemented easily by the manager / coach just for 1 team

it will make the team looked unorganised at times

it's best to play their best football (man utd looked like a fool playing all defensive against barca and too nervous and eager to score in the opening minutes last year )

and I'm well aware of the point u made

but the scale of injury at that moment is smaller than this time around isnt it?

as I mentioned before the youth players promoted are excellent but lack in experience in playing in La Liga BBVA

so the quality in overall from the bench are not standardised in some way if u get wad i mean

being able to take out any player in any position anytime and replace him with another player of the same position

without compromising the quality of the subbed player

This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 02:26 AM

I'm still not convinced. Having a large group of players will compromise the quality of the team too, in the sense that, the fringe players almost always are not of the same quality of the main players. What's the difference with Pep's reposition policy? You know, its not like FIFA, that is, if you reposition a 90 points rated DM to CB, his rating will drop to 60-70. The system dictate how well they play.

The only risk of Pep's system is the fitness of our players. But if you reflect further, you'll realize no matter how big your squad is, if you are unlucky with injuries, it can hit your the depth of your team hard too.

There's risk if you take either way. Its Pep's job to find the balance. So far, despite we being 5 points behind, I think we are still doing a great job. We are still in contention for everything. Oh and not to forget what we've won this season.

And about the quality of our youngsters, you may ask any Cule around, were they not impressed with Sergi Roberto and Cuenca this season? I'm pretty sure the answer will be emphatic 'YES'.

I have said before the youngster are excellent but they lack of experience

hence might compromise the overall quality a little bit

and the rating things...this is not wad i mean

rather than playing out of position, Pep should really get some defensive

players to cover since they are lacking in that department right?

He should really play the players at their most effective position

we all know midfield are the most important area in a team

Lets say if Iniesta Fabregas all injured and either Pique or Puyol is suspended

wouldn't u think busquet should play in midfield and use his experience

to guide the youngsters rather than letting other youngster play with each other and Busquet drop back to CB

althou u might argue they have their understanding in youth team thou

and as for injuries thing, it's very very subjective, a big squad will face injuries too but will have more options

as example arsenal and man utd are facing injuries here, and I mean alot

but Man Utd are forced to play Carrick and Valencia out of position as the last option, but Arsenal will have to use that option earlier than Man Utd because of the squad depth

and then if u relate it back to Madrid and Barca, it's just like Man Utd and Arsenal respectively

however the same injury rate and length are all assumptions to make this argument work

btw the main thing I stressed again is this is the counter-argument I give when one of the barca fan here expressed his opinion in Real Madrid thread

so if you don't really agree with his opinion, then you might just ignore this since you lot are content with the results so far but I dun mind for some football knowledge exchange =)

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Added on January 12, 2012, 12:50 pmand as for the fringe player of real madrid, I can only think of Granero, Altintop, who are rarely used

players like Pedro Leon and Sergio Canales are loaned out for either
increasing their experience or not in plan of Mourinho

other than that, I think the subs quality are quite similar bar the defensive players such as Albiol

but the best example to talk bout squad depth should be Man City in EPL

but ironically Mancini decided that his squad is not strong enough and need more players

This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 12:50 PM

It's nothing new that other teams plays better vs. us compared to Madrid.

NOt much time so jsut some points.

1) The opposition players get an extra motivation to beat the world's best team.

2) They get more recognition for beating Barca rather than Madrid, no disrespect but Barca is at the top.

3) Difference in tactics. It is easier to stop Barca than Madrid.

sounds contradicting in all angles

@tzxsean

Both of them agreed with us having to work twice or thrice as hard. They just didn't agree that Madrid's opponent just let Madrid rolled over. So, they still agreed with my main point which was what I was saying and my only intended point at first, all this while.


@Uzary

I'm glad that you and Matryze agreed with what I said about us having to work doubly hard compared to Madrid. It's so easy to see because the difference is huge. As for the other thing I said about the other Liga teams purposely let Real win because they want Barca to fall, ok I might be wrong in this. But how do u explain the errors and blunders made whenever teams played Madrid. I can accept it if was just once or twice because I know everyone makes mistakes, but it happened so frequently. It's always some defenders or goalkeepers that made some silly blunders and then Madrid went on to score them. They basically gifted them free goals every game. And I'm not talking about defenders or GK's from the bottom team, but from teams like Sevilla who have good defenders and GK's. They conceded 6 goals at HOME to Madrid. You have seen how Sevilla played against us, how crazy their defenders can get and how incredible their GK, Javi Varas making those saves after saves. Before that thrashing they got from Madrid, they have the 2nd best defensive record alongside Madrid and only second behind Barca, and all of a sudden they let in 6 goals EASILY and at HOME. Just a few days ago, Malaga GK made another blunder against them. It can't be just a coincidence or luck, right? If it was, why didnt we see these 'coincidences' and 'luck' happen in Barca's matches? We wouldnt see them because all of them took us extremely seriously, so extreme that they are able to raise their game a few levels than normal that we hardly see them making mistakes and blunders. I agreed with what Matryze saying that Liga teams have great difficulties in dealing with pacey teams and players like what Madrid have and that's the main reason why Madrid scored so many goals. But if they have taken Madrid as serious as they took us, it would have made a whole lot difference. But because they only want to beat the best there is, like what Uzary said, things would most likely remain the same. Madrid would notch up wins after wins, leaving us, I mean me, without hope. My last hope lies on Bilbao in San Mames. Football is Spain is not just about football only. I mean politics involves in it too. Basques and Catalans hates the capital very much and are so proud of their culture and 'country' that the separatists always look to separate their 'country' from Spain. I'm sure it's the same in football. Those 11 Basques players will play with their lives at San Mames. The other Basques team, Sociedad did gave their all but lost only by a mere 0-1.

Some of them from Madrid thread asked why am I so serious. I wasnt like this before. You don't see me going to other threads and made all this chaos and troubles just because Barca lost to some teams. But because it is Mou's team, I've to make this an exception. I absolutely despise that douchebag. Look at what he did to Barca over the years. It started all the way back at Chelsea. From accusing Rijkaard of going to the refs room to our players taking drugs last season. He could thought out all sorts of excuses just to bring us down. I find it quite unbelievable that some of those Madrid fans are not fans of their team but only supported them because Mou is the coach. It's fine to support him because he's one of the best tactician around but to agree with him poking Tito's eyes is quite another thing and absolutely shocking. It's like they worship him like some god or something. They just agree with whatever he does and says, good or bad. Take Tzxsean and raj84 for example. Not just them, most are brainwashed with Mou's excuse that Barca are lucky that Cristiano missed those chances he'd normally score. What chances? Is it the header he missed when it was 1-2? If you look clearly, he wasn't in the best position to score it. The ball went a little higher over his head and he had to pushed his head to the back to head it. It's difficult and not a definite goal. If he was in Benzema's position, then I believe he'd score that. Or is it the one he missed earlier from Benzema's pass? I've seen him scored as much as missed those kind of chances. It's 50-50. It's something like the goal he scored against Granada last Liga match. It's easier to score because the ball rolled and reached his right foot first. That Benzema pass, because it rolled over his left foot first, there was every chance the ball would go wide when he side footed that with his right foot. Mou's excuse for that defeat was that Barca are lucky. But wasn't Di Maria LUCKY to received that ball from Valdes, didn't Ozil had the LUCK from Di Maria's deflected shot and finally wasn't Benzema LUCKY that the ball landed right onto his foot to score that goal? 3 lucks in a few seconds...that's what we called LUCK.

I apologise to anyone who felt offended at Madrid thread. Again, why am I so serious that I have to say sorry, you asked? There is a reason I chose this nick lolSERIUSchen. Peace out.......

bah ...the 6 goals in Mestalla is because the high defensive line played by the players...

high defensive line vs pacy players... sure pacy players will cause trouble

chelsea of old (recent weeks ago) played high defensive line before reverting to normal tactic

let Walcott (who I deemed as average and overrated players) run riot on the wings and subsequently scoring in the game

it's just a mismatch of tactics against opponent. Real Sociedad played 11 men behind the ball this season and Real Madrid only able to score 1 in this game.

Levante beaten Real Madrid yet Barca thrashed Levante. so can I suggest Levante do not give all their effort against Barca?

Form, luck are parts of game. U cant take it away from the game. Who would have thought Arsenal will be in a mini slump at the beginning of the season? Who would have thought Man utd will concede 6 in 2 games against lesser sides and gave away chance to become on top.

and as matyrze suggested, barca tactics is slow in nature, keeping possession and slowly pick out the deadly pass ...this will give times for opponent to return to help defense

whereas Madrid/Ronaldo dun hesitate to shoot from range or other players to cross into the box, which give slower players a lil of chance to def seeing Madrid has pacy players. This is something Barca dun do.
Even in corner, short pass is preferred compared to Madrid who have couple of headers goal from corner.

I dont buy it when teams are less motivated and not giving it all against madrid and vice versa when come to Barca.

if u seemed like to stressed on the luck is being on madrid side's for the goals in Bernabeu

then i've ntg to say .... it can be just Barca's luck running out in scoring goals

if the luck is there, the players not motivated to run and try to get the ball or pressure the players..the goals will not be coming...

as example, many ppl bashed Berbatov for not giving 100% because of his body language and the scenes where Rooney constantly playing almost in every position to help the team dun make it better for berbatov

disagree, it's carvalho now.. anyway i agree with ur main point, real's defensive play is the main reason they keep losing against barca

carvalho is slow liao

old and easy injured

but with ramos and pepe in centre , the defensive records are better

however still prone to mistakes, ill temperament

ok guys, wateva it is, if we secure tonite game against osasuna, we wil be meeting each otha in el classico.. all d best for barca.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/3869/fifa-b...are-better-than

Barcelona's Xavi: Lionel Messi's remarks are better than winning the FIFA Ballon d'Or

The 31-year-old midfielder was thrilled to hear the Argentina international publicly praise him and stressed that he can become the best player in the history of the game

Barcelona playmaker Xavi confessed that he was overjoyed with teammate Lionel Messi's comments about him at the FIFA Ballon d' Or gala.

The Spain international finished third in the poll for the third straight year as Messi picked up the award, while Real Madrid's Cristiano Ronaldo came second.

Upon receiving the prize, Messi paid tribute to Xavi, saying it was "a pleasure" to play alongside the 31-year-old.

"Of course, it [Messi's words] moved me, I liked it a lot," Xavi told Esport3. "It is better than winning an award. I did not expect him to thank me, he is a great friend of mine and an amazing person, but he is shy."

UEFA president Michel Platini was coy when asked if Messi could become the best player in soccer history, but Xavi believes there are no limits to the Argentine's potential.

"It is true that if he continues at this level, he will be the best player ever," Xavi added. "I have no doubt about it. He is the one who has to test his own limits. If he continues like this, he will break all records. I am happy for him, because he is my friend and also a great guy."



This post has been edited by MessiX10: Jan 13 2012, 03:30 AM

Maxwell, transferred to París Saint-Germain


FC Barcelona and Paris Saint-Germain have agreed to transfer Maxwell to the French club. Paris Saint-Germain will pay 4 million euros for the Brazilian fullback

FC Barcelona wants to thank Maxwell for his effort, predisposition and contribution to the team’s athletic successes during his time at the Club.

Maxwell arrived at FC Barcelona in the summer of 2009 from Inter Milan to play left back. The Brazilian has won a total of 10 titles as a FC Barcelona player in his two and a half years with the Club – three Spanish Super Cups, two European Super Cups, two League titles, two Club World Cups and one Champions League.

Gracias Maxwell!!