FC Barcelona 2011/12

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Spanish Clubs FC Barcelona 2011/12, Goodbye Keiteeee!!

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tzxsean	Aug 30 2011, 03:04 AM Return to original view \| Post #1
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	wow...xavi villa on the bench...sanchez fabregas and thiago starts
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tzxsean	Sep 19 2011, 04:45 AM Return to original view \| Post #2
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	QUOTE(raul88 @ Sep 19 2011, 04:32 AM) most of them are bandwagon just follow crowd and friends..just wanna fit in knowledge about football..zero..ok maybe got abit la but when champion league or world cup/euro, english team or england lose, they all butthurt..how can? (because this clowns only watch bpl and are clueless about other european league- la liga, serie a, bundesliga etc) yes, bpl is the most exciting league yes, bpl is the most competitive league yes, bpl is the most entertaining league (heck i watched bpl more than la liga itself) BUT that doesnt mean they have the best team or the best player aguero in athletico consistent 20+ goals in a season, but he never won golden boot (correct me if i'm wrong) come to bpl suddenly become contender to golden boot...not that i'm saying he's not good but you get my point same goes to torres, when he arrived in england, first season he became oversea player to scored the most goal in debut season, overtake nistelrooy record generally, bpl= high tempo, fast game, highly physical la liga= possession football? skills? serie a= defence specialist, counter attack uefa champion league winners speak for itself 12 winners from spain 11 winners from england 11 winnners from italy if bpl>all, shouldnt english team should have more UCL trophy well...fact that barca and real madrid received way different revenue from broadcasting rights do increase the gap between teams and the time of la liga matches are too late (most ppl are sleeping or have work to do next day) in addition, sugar daddies bought clubs in EPL and it's certainly more exciting now compared to la liga in terms of the intensity last but not least, imho the opinion barca wont last against stoke is purely based on the fact that Stoke players are too physical and Barca may be cant cope well with them (easy to fall down and etc) in terms of technicality, Barca is out of meter compared to all teams in the world
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tzxsean	Sep 19 2011, 01:14 PM Return to original view \| Post #3
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	QUOTE(matyrze @ Sep 19 2011, 06:04 AM) The real question is, is there no such gap between Man Utd compared to the rest? City is catching up because of their money. Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal are thought to be in transition. So they should be considerably weaker than they were few years ago no? So isn't that showing the gap? I don't need to speculate anything like how you do with that Stoke bulls, I just have to show Man Utd results against Arsenal and just now Chelsea. BOTH were really horrible with their defense. Bolton also received a mauling in their own stadium too. why not BPL fanboys just point this out as the gap, like Real-Barca have in Liga? At least we have 2 horse race in Spain. Right now, BPL fans have to pray for City to keep up with Utd, otherwise, BPL should be wrapped up early. I heard there are 6 title contenders right? Who's the other one? Spurs? I LOLed Intensity, yes. But better competition? Better midtable teams? Now, Malaga has been bought by Sheikhs as well. Getafe will be taken up fully by another group of Sheikh next year. Atletico is still in fine financial state. Sevilla is still pretty much a good team, as long as they keep Palop outta their team. Valencia have never seemed to be affected by their troubles. Real Sociedad held us to a draw, Levante just defeated Madrid. Clubs in Spain are in financial troubles, but it is not always reflected by on-pitch performance. This BS is the easiest and the last haters could hang onto, because in no way Barca can prove otherwise. Well, not if they somehow get into UCL Just cut the crap OK? Can't you just see? People only talk about Barca and Real because Malaysian generally lack the exposure towards La Liga. Thus they are not familiar Villareal, Valencia and Atletico. They just don't realize that Valencia has won just as much league titles as Arsenal did during the past 10 years. Meanwhile, although it has been always Man Utd who managed to grab the league nearly every year, because of the fan base, EPL teams are automatically regarded much higher. Conclusion, your example is very biased, and in no way it strengthens your argument. Yeah it used to be like that. Not now though. Last I checked, Spain have 2 reps in UCL semis, 1 in Europa Cup semis, and 1 winner in UEFA Super Cup. In the meantime, BPL teams are continuously looking for players in the more 'inferior' La Liga. Cheers. i think u misunderstood the stoke barca thingy i mentioned wad i mean is that I think....the person who said that (Andy Gray if I'm not right) his statement might be based on physical of Stoke apart from that, u mentioned about the taking over in La Liga it's not that relevant yet, Getafe and Malaga are only in their 1st season after take over PSG too (did not perform that well as well) but chelsea man city played few seasons already, so the performance has improve alot and about the scorelines against chelsea arsenal recently arsenal is plagued by injuries (transfer policies defect for ages), chelsea is in transition if u watch the game (esp chelsea) the 3-0 doesnt represent the performance in pitch just the finishing of man utd is better and if u read correctly wad I wrote nvr once I said which league is superior I myself watched both I was merely analysing reasons why ppl said BPL is better (popular) than la liga last but no least, chances of upset in BPL is higher than la liga if nt mistaken p/s: there are many ways to interpret the word 'better' , it depends on how u look at it, better as in better teams? more hype? and etc no right or wrong here This post has been edited by tzxsean: Sep 19 2011, 01:19 PM
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tzxsean	Sep 22 2011, 12:37 PM Return to original view \| Post #4
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	now only few matches already conclusion? wait a few more matches la if early early count last season blackpool stoke oso in top 5 what while man utd no where to be seen becos of the poor away form it will reveals when the league is approaching winter This post has been edited by tzxsean: Sep 22 2011, 12:40 PM
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tzxsean	Dec 16 2011, 07:21 PM Return to original view \| Post #5
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	Bayer Leverkusen vs Barcelona This post has been edited by tzxsean: Dec 16 2011, 07:25 PM
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tzxsean	Dec 16 2011, 07:30 PM Return to original view \| Post #6
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	yeap...i typed too fast then i only realised the mistake...dun mind me
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tzxsean	Jan 11 2012, 10:44 PM Return to original view \| Post #7
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	sry for the belated congratz for messi and the reason I come to here is to discuss about the reasoning given by one of Barca fans here in Real Madrid thread » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « QUOTE(lolseriuschen @ Jan 3 2012, 09:03 PM) Dude, you seriously think by playing normally like how Real usually does, you'll have a chance of beating Barca? Come on! I tell you what, the truth is you all have been cheated by this false impression that Real have improved or narrow the gap between them and Barca. Ya, you all might have seen how Real are scoring at will this season so far, but have you ever thought of the reason behind it? Have you all actually seen any of Barca's matches? Try compare how opponents play against both of them. Against Barca, the opponents gave their all and park every buses,planes or jets but when they came up against Real, they just opened up at the back and let Real ran all over them. Other than Barca in the classico, Real have not come up against any real tough opponents or teams that gave their all as consistently as Barca gets in every matches. And when they get one, they were found out in the el classico 1-3 defeat, and they will continue to be found out because they aren't used to it, they aren't being tested enough. When the Champions League gets tougher in the knockout stages or when they face Bilbao's Bielsa and Atletico's new coach, Diego Simeone, we'll then see how 'great' this Real Madrid is! P.S. Mou only knows how to whine and give all sorts of excuses. UNICEF,RFEF,red cards and even LUCK, when he ran out of one. But I hope he keeps on like that because it means Barca will continue winning. Like Pep said, one only learns from DEFEATS, and Mou definitely hasn't. As they say, to reach the top is hard but to stay at the top is even harder. Pep is able to do it because he always learns something new from every defeats and every problems his team encountered from different team with different tactics to stop them, and from there he made Barca improved every season. Can Mou do what Pep is doing and will continue to do? Given his love in giving excuses, I seriously doubt that. I'm sure of one thing though. That is the so called special one has so much to learn from the wise one. QUOTE(lolseriuschen @ Jan 9 2012, 04:41 PM) I'm not going to say much. I still insist on what I've said before this. If the rest of the Liga teams played as intense as they were against Barca in every matches, and Real end up having more points than Barca at the end, then I would gladly congrats you guys and say Madrid are deserve champions. But that's not the case. You don't see that in Real's matches, not even in your biggest local derby against Atletico. The one Barca played last night against Espanyol is what we call a real local derby. It was full of intensity like how Barca normally experienced. Last night, the intensity was slightly greater because Barca is Espanyol's most hated rival. On the other hand, Atletico aren't doing that to their most hated enemy. p.s. Let's not kid ourselves. If Real end up winning the Liga, it's not them winning it but rather the opponents who won them the title. QUOTE(lolseriuschen @ Jan 11 2012, 07:08 PM) :trollol: troll lah banyak lagi...baik untuk kesihatan yang kau quote tu, yang mana kau nampak aku puji puji? aku cuma cakap Barca kena kerja keras untuk setiap point. Madrid pulak senang je dapat 3 point setiap pelawanan. Bila kau nampak benda yang tak adil, fahamlah kau. Aku masuk thread ni cuma nak ingatkan Madridista semua ni, yang team kamu tu bukan menang dengan usaha keras sendiri, tapi dibantu oleh team2 lain yang semua nak lihat Barca tumbang. Mungkin aku tak pandai berkata-kata, tapi semua yang ku cakap ni adalah fakta. Sebelum aku berambus, ni nak ingatkan buat kali terakhir.... 'Madrid didn't win the Liga, the others won for them' - remember this at the end of the season. QUOTE(lolseriuschen @ Jan 11 2012, 10:23 PM) Did you get what I was trying to say? If you realised all that I've said before this, you'd know I've never brought up the issue about referees. A lot of decisions have gone against Barca in Liga this season, some as clear as daylight, but I've never talked about them. All I said was the other Liga teams just refused to give a fight to Madrid. That's my only complain. Zerohneza was right. The Liga is not just about the classico, but if the other team's defence just bend over for Madrid every game, why did he even said that in the first place. It's hard to explain to non-Liga followers, and if you watch their matches, you wouldn't believe your eyes how easily their opponent's defence cracked, and I'm not talking about clubs at the bottom, but teams at the top like Valencia and Sevilla, some of the best defence in the league but making schoolboy's mistakes and blunders against them while played like their lives depended on it, heroic tackles and saves after saves when they faced Barca. You're an Arsenal fan, just imagine Man City or United just steam rolled every team effortlessly, and it's not that they're too good for the rest but just that they didn't want to give them a fight. If that happens to your team one day, you'll understand how hopeless Barca fans are right now. But then again,I dont think that day will ever come for you because your team will never ever reach our heights. QUOTE(tzxsean @ Jan 11 2012, 10:39 PM) ^ bro u damn funny lor will never ever reach ur barca height then y complain this n that ? league haven finish already give excuses? it's very simple why Barca is having tough time again lesser team 1) Barca tiki taka exist for quite long ...teams already got some tactic to overcome tiki taka ... u expect one tactic can be used forever? if so the successful manager in the past who cant provide results now wont be sacked already 2) this is only 2nd season Mourinho in charge and the tactic and play of Real Madrid is still consider fresh for other team to adapt and get some tactic to overcome it 3) it's just the exhaustion of ur players after playing so many games for few seasons with the small squad of urs ... other teams now have more energy to fight with Barca than Real Madrid whose bench is strong enough for rotation 4) during 1st season Mourinho take charge of Real Madrid and before that, Barca oso dominate most of the teams include real madrid because no coach/manager have idea to counter tiki taka yet... now other teams improve against the same style of football display ... why u discredit their improvement and discredit real madrid performance althou Barca is still the best team 5) Didn't barca dominate Man utd (EPL champion) in CL final as well? what do u say about that? Man utd give up or? the reason is this is the 2nd time Man Utd face barca after 1st defeat to Barca in previous CL final. Man Utd only have theorical tactic to overcome Barca but have no practical training like La Liga teams. Added on January 11, 2012, 10:41 pmlet me give u example of Arsenal in EPL during Henry era, Arsenal was the invincible team and play beautiful football even after Henry and co left ,their tactic nvr change and the only plan was Plan A do u think teams and manager nvr learn from opponent when the same tactic is used for so many years? since few seasons ago, lesser teams already capable of holding Arsenal or even defeating them quality of players nevertheless is one issue but lack of alternative tactic is the main reason for their decline This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 11 2012, 10:48 PM
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 12:02 AM Return to original view \| Post #8
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	i dun post here for them to dislike you i just want their actual opinion whether they are the same with u facts or not, it just up to ur own assumptions can you really back ur fact with data or statistics that opponent when playing against barca and real madrid covered less distance or use less energy or wad? form is one of the thing that canot be predicted. that's what football about. Ball is round.
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 12:05 AM Return to original view \| Post #9
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	I would like to discuss about squad depth and rotation as well for both teams » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « QUOTE(lolseriuschen @ Jan 11 2012, 11:37 PM) @tzxsean 3 years of ruling the football world, consistently staying at the top, always being talked about as one of the best team in the history.....that's what I was talking about when I said Arsenal could never ever reach this Barca team's heights. I didn't complain this and that until someone brought up the issue about refs. Yes, other teams are coming up with their own solutions to counter our tiki-taka. But, like I said before this Pep always able to come up with his own answers to counter them as proven by the varieties of tactics he employed this season. From 4-3-3. 3-4-3, 3-5-2 and even 3-7-0 without a single striker. That's how he managed to stay at the top for so many years. Believe me, Liga teams still have no answers to tiki-taka. The reason why some of them managed to draw with Barca is because they played their heart out every game, it's like there are no tomorrow for them. But when they play Madrid, they just didn't do that. As for you saying Madrid have more depth for player rotations, do you know they almost always use the same starting eleven every Liga game? While Barca used the same players for only 2 matches in all competition. I don't think you know what you're talking about dude. @raul88 Refer to the above. That's what typical Madrid fanboys would say when they have lost all arguments and have nothing else to say. Aug - We'll win treble Dec - We'll win double Mac - We'll win the Liga May - we have 31 Liga titles, 9 UCL QUOTE(tzxsean @ Jan 11 2012, 11:59 PM) so solutions for tiki taka came out and results are not as u lot expected. It means that teams are getting the hang to counter tiki taka. and the counter-tactics Pep used are simply not effective enough. Reason is the formation is changed yet the game plan is still tiki taka. just like u change the container of a soup but the taste of the soup still same. just dun be a sour grape just because result dun go ur ways anyway mourinho have ranted before about this that teams let Barca have it easy. real madrid squad depth is indeed deeper than barca no matter how you look at it. I noe this season Pep promoted alot of youth teams member into the 1st team bt they still lack the experience. on the other hand, Real Madrid got new signing - Sahin, fit Kaka, Haltintop and co to replace each other for different tactic. Almost the same team every match don mean squad depth is not there. Lets use another example shall we? Man City of EPL have a strong squad yet Mancini still uses the strongest squad for every game if he can. If Silva or others injured, he can let others to come in without compromising much of the quality lost from the actual starting eleven this is squad depth, a rotation in ur mind means like Rafa Benitez keep rotate lots of the position every game. can Barca really replace Alves or Pique with Keita or Busquet or Mascherano in defending position without really sacrifice the quality of the starting 11 of actual position? and I have never once say Barca is second best, but rather than discrediting other teams, why not look from own side afterall Barca is the best team in the world after all. By this I mean after practically winning everything in such short period, players might lose the hunger for victory and Pep shall look for another way to motivate the players to perform better or at least consistent. Added on January 12, 2012, 12:08 amand oh yeah for Arsenal thing u mentioned it's a pity that when they are the invincibles the players are on peak or mature age some of them have to retire or being sold off before the value drops this is the policy of Wenger, nothing to do with the ability of players I merely use the example of non-changing tactic of Arsenal against the debate of solutions for tiki taka are being found by other teams This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 12:08 AM
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 01:23 AM Return to original view \| Post #10
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	my very short simple version of my post barca tiki taka exist for quite many seasons and teams already getting the hang to deal with it while mourinho's madrid still on 2nd year and squad depth and rotation of madrid is superior than barca seeing barca has to play players out of position (Masch, Busquet) rather than ordinary CBs when puyol/pique unavailable while Madrid can sub/rotate without compromising much of the quality of starting 11 Added on January 12, 2012, 1:26 amand as for Real vs Barca I think psychologically Real is inferior to Barca after being taught so many lessons in the past regardless of new players coming in eg. Ronaldo is just his shadow self when playing against Barca (missing chances he wont miss in other games) Mourinho probably conservative to go all out ( he is scare to lose than want to win - as suggested by journalist ) so basically i think u disagree with the points of ur fellow mate This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 01:26 AM
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 01:53 AM Return to original view \| Post #11
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	lol...last year i come kecoh sini cos the alves thing and pedro, masch and busquet faking abuse from real's player by covering face only anyway i mainly support man utd ...real madrid secondary only ... anyway one main thing y real madrid score so much is becos they take the chance and kill the game off while I read reports that Barca wasted alot of chance when u din kill the game off early , teams will always try to equalise and many teams risk playing high def line against real madrid hence pacy counter attack brought real alot of goal which wad vintage man utd always do and another thing with tiki taka, when u lot passing and get possession opponent will have more time to get back and def and cover each other if no decisive pass is being made to attempt on goal p/s: althou i still dun like the 'anti-football' like tiki taka, barca is unarguably the best team in the world at this moment, but winning too many things at short period may have negative impact by reducing their hunger for victory as I mentioned. Lack of other tactic other than tiki taka is another problem too just like Arsenal. Change of formation is by no means change of tactic
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 02:03 AM Return to original view \| Post #12
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	eh i think u got it wrong i mean teams cant cope with real madrid cos the team is still new not much reference and trial and error to be done in match with real madrid as compared to barca's tiki taka and the squad depth thing i use it to counter why Barca struggle to win this season because many main players injured and the substitutes quality is not very much the same the player they replace so hence the fluactuations of forms p/s: the use of busquet into ball playing cb role is quite good before tiki taka is being restrained by opponent and with the current injury problem, exhaustion, the situation this time is abit different imho as teams are getting points from Barca or Barca dropping them This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 02:05 AM
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 02:10 AM Return to original view \| Post #13
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	frankly speaking, both ramos and pepe is not disciplined players marcelo is used for attacking hence his defensive weakness is often overlooked carvalho is gd but now old..no pace and fragile ... as for diarra i think he is simply a ball winning midfield non of tactical defensive player or sort main problem is in alonso if he's getting marked tightly or unavailable, there's problem in the game flow of madrid...hopefully Sahin can replace him whenever he is unavailable or out of form
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 02:25 AM Return to original view \| Post #14
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	QUOTE(matyrze @ Jan 12 2012, 02:15 AM) In LL alone there are 38 matches played. Include UCL and CDR and Super Cups. With that amount of matches, everybody know how RM play. Its just that RM players can be too pacey for LL teams. One question, who played as CB for us against Man Utd last season? In Rome final, what was our backline again? Rotating position will not hurt the system, if it is implemented correctly. but 1 thing u have to remember even the match can be analysed not every teams' players are the same in attributes so wad were done by other teams cant be implemented easily by the manager / coach just for 1 team it will make the team looked unorganised at times it's best to play their best football (man utd looked like a fool playing all defensive against barca and too nervous and eager to score in the opening minutes last year ) and I'm well aware of the point u made but the scale of injury at that moment is smaller than this time around isnt it? as I mentioned before the youth players promoted are excellent but lack in experience in playing in La Liga BBVA so the quality in overall from the bench are not standardised in some way if u get wad i mean being able to take out any player in any position anytime and replace him with another player of the same position without compromising the quality of the subbed player This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 02:26 AM
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 12:47 PM Return to original view \| Post #15
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	I have said before the youngster are excellent but they lack of experience hence might compromise the overall quality a little bit and the rating things...this is not wad i mean rather than playing out of position, Pep should really get some defensive players to cover since they are lacking in that department right? He should really play the players at their most effective position we all know midfield are the most important area in a team Lets say if Iniesta Fabregas all injured and either Pique or Puyol is suspended wouldn't u think busquet should play in midfield and use his experience to guide the youngsters rather than letting other youngster play with each other and Busquet drop back to CB althou u might argue they have their understanding in youth team thou and as for injuries thing, it's very very subjective, a big squad will face injuries too but will have more options as example arsenal and man utd are facing injuries here, and I mean alot but Man Utd are forced to play Carrick and Valencia out of position as the last option, but Arsenal will have to use that option earlier than Man Utd because of the squad depth and then if u relate it back to Madrid and Barca, it's just like Man Utd and Arsenal respectively however the same injury rate and length are all assumptions to make this argument work btw the main thing I stressed again is this is the counter-argument I give when one of the barca fan here expressed his opinion in Real Madrid thread so if you don't really agree with his opinion, then you might just ignore this since you lot are content with the results so far but I dun mind for some football knowledge exchange =) Added on January 12, 2012, 12:50 pmand as for the fringe player of real madrid, I can only think of Granero, Altintop, who are rarely used players like Pedro Leon and Sergio Canales are loaned out for either increasing their experience or not in plan of Mourinho other than that, I think the subs quality are quite similar bar the defensive players such as Albiol but the best example to talk bout squad depth should be Man City in EPL but ironically Mancini decided that his squad is not strong enough and need more players This post has been edited by tzxsean: Jan 12 2012, 12:50 PM
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 07:42 PM Return to original view \| Post #16
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	bah ...the 6 goals in Mestalla is because the high defensive line played by the players... high defensive line vs pacy players... sure pacy players will cause trouble chelsea of old (recent weeks ago) played high defensive line before reverting to normal tactic let Walcott (who I deemed as average and overrated players) run riot on the wings and subsequently scoring in the game it's just a mismatch of tactics against opponent. Real Sociedad played 11 men behind the ball this season and Real Madrid only able to score 1 in this game. Levante beaten Real Madrid yet Barca thrashed Levante. so can I suggest Levante do not give all their effort against Barca? Form, luck are parts of game. U cant take it away from the game. Who would have thought Arsenal will be in a mini slump at the beginning of the season? Who would have thought Man utd will concede 6 in 2 games against lesser sides and gave away chance to become on top. and as matyrze suggested, barca tactics is slow in nature, keeping possession and slowly pick out the deadly pass ...this will give times for opponent to return to help defense whereas Madrid/Ronaldo dun hesitate to shoot from range or other players to cross into the box, which give slower players a lil of chance to def seeing Madrid has pacy players. This is something Barca dun do. Even in corner, short pass is preferred compared to Madrid who have couple of headers goal from corner. I dont buy it when teams are less motivated and not giving it all against madrid and vice versa when come to Barca. if u seemed like to stressed on the luck is being on madrid side's for the goals in Bernabeu then i've ntg to say .... it can be just Barca's luck running out in scoring goals if the luck is there, the players not motivated to run and try to get the ball or pressure the players..the goals will not be coming... as example, many ppl bashed Berbatov for not giving 100% because of his body language and the scenes where Rooney constantly playing almost in every position to help the team dun make it better for berbatov
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tzxsean	Jan 12 2012, 08:16 PM Return to original view \| Post #17
Lonely Driver Senior Member 5,608 posts Joined: Jan 2010	carvalho is slow liao old and easy injured but with ramos and pepe in centre , the defensive records are better however still prone to mistakes, ill temperament
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