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SUSBlizz-imperialx
post Sep 15 2006, 12:35 AM

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Thanks for your info guide dreamer. But I think it is more better to save your money in FD.

Today case :
A friend of mine SMS me about something like a insurance scheme. He's a insurance agent for ING insurance company. The message looks like this :

i want to tell you there is a bank giving 4.5% if you save RM5 per day. When you want to withdraw or you having health problem and can't save anymore, you will get all ur fund fully return + your medical bill. Is this true? I think this offer sounds too good.
MAN_90SG
post Sep 15 2006, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Sep 14 2006, 12:18 AM)
Leekk8 and Luqmanz,

1) Just use a bit of common sense here.  Insurance folks take your money and charged you commision to buy unit trust to be included in the insurance.  This is what happening in those investment linked policy.

Let me ask you a simple question.  Why are you paying insurance agent high commission to put unit trust inside you insurance when you can do it yourself to begin with??

2) In general, unless you meet an insurance agent that is very knowledgable.  They cannot and will not separate the insurance portion from the investment portion.  You really have no idea how they calculate the return since you have no idea how much you are paying for insurance and investment.

3) You do not know how to calculate retrun so how do you know what are their assumptions??

4) Insurance companies make a lot of money eventhough the agent commision  is around 141% to 170% of the first year premium for each policy.  Guess where they get their money from?? You, of course.

5) If you really do the calculation and they tell you exactly how much each portion: insurance versus investment.  You will know and find that the return is worse than FD.  Please noted that you do not pay commision when you buy FD.

Dreamer
*
commission is 40% for the first year and less the following years..eventually will get 100% of the yearly premium paid in 6 years.
luqmanz
post Sep 15 2006, 02:15 PM

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Err ... we are not supposed to talk about return when it's about insurance. Insurance shouldnt be treated like investment. (i.e dont expect good ROI when buying insurance, just make sure the coverage and price are reasonable)

This post has been edited by luqmanz: Sep 15 2006, 02:16 PM
cherroy
post Sep 16 2006, 08:59 AM

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The main objective of an insurance particularly life insurance type is to protect your dependants on you in unforseen circumstances so that your dependants won't lose the financial support if anything happened to you.
It is not a good tool of investment bare in mind. There are plenty of other investment tools out there which offer much better return than it.
Darkmage12
post Sep 18 2006, 06:42 PM

shhhhhhhhh come i tell you something hehe
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QUOTE(dEviLs @ Sep 14 2006, 11:29 PM)
single stock future seldom got trading le sweat.gif
dEviLs
post Sep 18 2006, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(Darkmage12 @ Sep 18 2006, 06:42 PM)
single stock future seldom got trading le sweat.gif
*
ya...today FAIR got 10 lots traded...first trade in more than a month sweat.gif
leekk8
post Sep 18 2006, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(dEviLs @ Sep 18 2006, 09:11 PM)
ya...today FAIR got 10 lots traded...first trade in more than a month  sweat.gif
*
Why single future has so few trade? Maybe cause nobody know how to trade?smile.gif
mobiusone
post Sep 19 2006, 09:55 AM

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Most malaysian traders still had a hard time grasping the futures concept,and some of the SSF counter's margin is more expensive compared to the FKLI and FCPO.
leekk8
post Sep 19 2006, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(mobiusone @ Sep 19 2006, 09:55 AM)
Most malaysian traders still had a hard time grasping the futures concept,and some of the SSF counter's margin is more expensive compared to the FKLI and FCPO.
*
Ya, I agree with you. I also can't understand the futures concept. Anyway, what is FKLI and FCPO?
kevinchlee
post Sep 19 2006, 03:11 PM

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arlo every1...im here to share some info wit u guys...
im not so turst on investment bcoz investment is usually sometimes depen on luck...
if u invest some money on it u need to care it much coz it sometimes will face suffer a loss n sometimes it will earn...
how if u loss money on ur invest? so i din invest anything b4...

and now my boss is doing a Saving Plan which is organizes by Allianz company and Bank negara malaysia.

Let say u save RM50k in this Saving Plan, after 10 years u can get back around RM100k++.

If after 10years u don wan take the money out, u can left, n if more 10 years, tat means 20 years u can get back around RM200K

If u save on this plan u also will get a free life. the value of Life is depen on how much u save...

Let say if economy getting worse after 10years, u no need sked about pay more on the saving plan, bcoz at the beginning of saving, we will ask u to sign a policy state tat even economy have any change in tis 10years, v also won charge u more or less, tat means u save RM50k then jus pay RM50K even economy getting worse...is slidely difference with other company saving plan.

and the interest on this saving plan is currently higher then FD,bank saving plan, insurance saving plan and many more...
even some insurance n bank employer(v cant state which company izit) also saving thier money on this plan... so u can c how worth izit tis plan...

sometimes ppl will care after 10years will the company still b ther...
i cant guarantee, but wat is can says is tis plan is organise by Bank Negara n Allianz company, Allianz is the Top 10 insurance company around the world and Bank Negara, every1 also know tat bank negara is an important bank in malaysia, so v no need to sked cant get back our money...
user posted image

and the best thing of this plan is u can use this saving plan resit to put on ur account tat will submit to goverment.

Mostly v will recommand for ppl who wan to invest/ who wan to save money for ur future/ who wan to save money for thier children future/
Many investers also transfer some of thier money into this plan

A brief summaries
-guarantee get back 2x money after 10years
-No need pay more or less even economy getting worse
-Free Life ( i forget free which 1 dy)
-Strong company background(Bank Negara/Allianz)
-High interest
-No need to face any loss
-a better thing than invest

if u guys interested or wan to know more detials,pls call my boss at
Century Pioneer Company - MDRT
012-9876860

This post has been edited by kevinchlee: Sep 19 2006, 04:02 PM
cherroy
post Sep 19 2006, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(leekk8 @ Sep 19 2006, 02:02 PM)
Ya, I agree with you. I also can't understand the futures concept. Anyway, what is FKLI and FCPO?
*
FKLI - Future of Kuala Lumpur composite index
FCPO - Future of Crude Palm Oil

Eg. FKLI Sep, if you buy it let say today 956 then at the end of last trading day (sept) the index settle at 970 then you gain 14 points - each point worth RM50 so 14x50 = RM700. On the other hand if you sell it at 956 then you lose the Rm700 before commission charges. But if index plunge to 900 then the person sell first one will gain 56 points.

You can also trade Dec contract or 2007 March one.

The beauty of futures is you can trade both way either up or down unlike share only upwards you can gain. Basically it is somehow more like speculation rather than investment and it is a zero sum game, a person gain money surely got one opposite person lose. But sometimes it can be a good tool of hedging/protecting you shareholding -> much more complicated already so not elaborated it here, long story


mobiusone
post Sep 19 2006, 05:15 PM

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yup...some fund managers uses the futures as a hedging tool,to shift the price risk.

anyway,the group that is responsible for the iris,mobif and a couple of stocks' astronomical price move is finally revealed.

QUOTE
Aeneas Hedge Fund Faces Probes in U.S and Malaysia

By Otis Bilodeau and Katherine Burton

Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Aeneas Capital Management LP, the hedge fund
company run by former SAC Capital Advisors LLC money manager Thomas
Grossman, is under investigation by regulators in the U.S. and Malaysia
after bets on Malaysian stocks caused losses of about 60 percent in one
of its funds, people familiar with the situation said.

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is examining Aeneas to
determine whether it broke any securities laws, three people with
direct
knowledge of the inquiry said. In Kuala Lampur, Aeneas is being probed
for potential stock manipulation, said the people, who declined to be
identified because the investigations aren't yet public.

Aeneas, which managed as much as $400 million and invested mostly in
emerging markets, highlights the risks of funds that make concentrated
bets and don't have to make routine disclosures with regulators. More
than 500 hedge funds have shut in the past two years, according to data
compiled by Chicago- based Hedge Fund Research Inc. Altogether, they've
caused less disruption to global markets than the collapse of
Greenwich,
Connecticut-based Long-Term Capital Management LP in 1998.

Malaysia's market regulator, the Securities Commission, said in an
e-mailed response to questions that its investigations into ``the
manipulation of certain shares are ongoing and individuals acquainted
with the facts of the cases have been called in to assist.'' The e-mail
didn't name Aeneas and officials there declined to comment further.

``The SC will take the necessary action where there is evidence of
deliberate conduct or attempt to interfere with the genuine forces of
supply and demand,'' the commission said.

Losing Bets

Aeneas, whose biggest fund returned an average 6.5 percent from 2000 to
2005, lost money in stocks including Iris Corp. and Farm's Best Bhd.,
prompting Deutsche Bank AG to demand repayment of loans that financed
the trades, said the people familiar with the firm's situation.
Grossman
told investors on an Aug. 14 conference call about the losses in its
Priam fund, which also hurt its bigger Aeneas Portfolio fund, said two
people with direct knowledge of that discussion.

Neither Grossman nor any of his employees has been accused of
wrongdoing. Grossman didn't reply to a request for comment and his firm
referred questions to attorney Kenneth Breen, a partner at Fulbright &
Jaworski in New York. Breen declined to make Grossman available for an
interview.

``Aeneas is cooperating fully with securities regulators,'' Breen said.

SEC spokesman John Nester declined to comment.

Malaysia Exchange

Bursa Malaysia, manager of the country's stock exchange, ``continuously
monitors and reviews the trading activities of market participants and
will take necessary actions, if requred,'' Chief Regulatory Officer
Devanesan Evanson said in an e-mailed statement. He wasn't specific
about any cases that are under investigation.

Hedge funds are private pools of capital that allow managers to
participate substantially in the gains on money invested by clients. An
SEC rule that tightened oversight of the $1.2 trillion industry was
struck down by a federal appeals court in June, leaving the agency
without the power to conduct random inspections of many funds.

Grossman, 40, formed Aeneas in 2000 after leaving SAC Capital, Steven
Cohen's $10 billion hedge fund company in Stamford, Connecticut. *He
worked at New York-based Goldman Sachs Group Inc.*, the world's top
trading firm by revenue, following his graduation in 1988 from Lehigh
University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, where he played fullback on the
football team.

Grossman's Fund Performance

At SAC Capital, Grossman managed an international equities fund from
1997 through 1999, posting annual returns of 39 percent, 27 percent and
59 percent, after fees, according to performance figures obtained by
Bloomberg News. SAC Capital invested with Grossman when he started
Aeneas.

Aeneas Portfolio, Grossman's flagship fund, made money for investors in
five of the past six years. It had a negative return of almost 16
percent in 2001. The fund's best year was in 2004, when it gained 22
percent after fees.

Performance figures weren't available for *Priam, the Malaysia-only
fund
that suffered losses of 60 percent. A person familiar with the
situation
said the _fund has no capital left_.*

Aeneas was among the largest investors in at least four Malaysian
stocks
that more than doubled this year, according to filings with the Kuala
Lumpur Stock Exchange. Priam and Aeneas Portfolio a_*massed stakes of
more than 10 percent in Iris and Farm's Best, as well as Kosmo
Technology Industrial Bhd. and MoBif Bhd*_., the filings show.

Trading Curbs

Shares of all four companies collapsed after regulators began probing
the rapid appreciation in their shares.

* Iris*, a Kuala Lumpur-based electronics maker, gained more than 270
percent this year after the funds run by Grossman acquired almost 20
percent of the company's shares in February and then continued buying.
The stock exchange imposed trading curbs in May on Iris shares and last
month said it was ``very concerned'' that the stock's ``trading
patterns
were inconsistent'' with movements in the broader market.

/* ``I have no idea'' about any investigation, Iris Managing Director
Tan Say Jim said today in a telephone interview. Any manipulation of
Iris's stock ``has nothing to do with the company or its management,''
he said.* /

Stock Plunge

Shares of Iris have dropped 81 percent since the exchange tightened
rules on trading. Grossman's Priam fund still held Iris shares as of
Sept. 14, filings show. His Aeneas Portfolio fund sold 5 million shares
on Aug. 23.

* By mid-July, Priam and Aeneas Portfolio held almost half of the
outstanding shares of Melaka, Malaysia-based Farm's Best,* which sells
poultry products and animal feed. The stock has since dropped more than
70 percent, following an Aug. 17 letter from Malaysian regulators that
faulted the company for selling a stake to unidentified private
investors at ``far below the market price.''

The two funds *bought up 46 percent of the outstanding shares of MoBif,
*an Internet security company in Penang, Malaysia, from February
through
June. During that period, the stock rose more than 80 percent. In
August, the Malaysian exchange issued a statement questioning the
``sharp increase in price and high volume'' of trading in the stock.
The
shares are down 83 percent from their high on Aug. 16.

Loans Called

* Frankfurt-based Deutsche Bank, Germany's largest bank, in August
called the loans Aeneas used* to increase the size of its trading bets,
the two people familiar with his conference call said. Rohini Pragasam,
a Deutsche Bank spokeswoman in New York, declined to comment.

The SEC is investigating whether Grossman's firm improperly shifted
assets or liabilities between its accounts, the three people familiar
with the agency's inquiry said.

_/* Trading records at the Kuala Lumpur exchange show Priam and Aeneas
Portfolio were active in the same stocks on the same days. In one
instance, Aeneas Portfolio fund sold 12 million shares in Mahajaya Bhd.
on Dec. 30, 2005. The same day, Priam, the Malaysia-only fund, acquired
12 million shares of the company, a Kuala Lumpur-based real estate
developer.* /_

Investors continue to pour money into hedge funds. Hedge Fund Research
estimates that the industry attracted $42.1 billion from April through
June, the most in a quarter since at least 2003. At the same time,
returns are dwindling. In July, they declined for a third straight
month, the longest losing streak since September 2001.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/18/bloomberg/sxhedge.php
http://www.banknet360.com/news/NewsAbstract.do?na_id=5316
dEviLs
post Sep 20 2006, 10:44 AM

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I posted the same thing in the Education thread..in case anyone miss out wink.gif
p/s : i not working for them tongue.gif
QUOTE
Dear i*Trade@CIMB Customers,

Due to overwhelming response in our earlier workshops, we are proud to bring you our FREE Retail Investment Workshop in Mandarin.

This Trading workshop will enhance retail investors' knowledge on trading and investing in the Malaysian Financial Market.

Retail investors will also be provided with an outlook and overview of the Malaysian Futures Market with special focus on strategies to maximise potential returns via Successful Trading Strategies.


Workshop details as follows:-

Date
23 September 2006 (Saturday)

Venue
Bursa Malaysia Kuala Lumpur

Conference Room 1 &2 Ground Floor

(Click here to view Map)

Admission
FREE (prior registration is a pre-requisite)

Registration
9:15am - 9:45am

Duration
9:15am - 12:45pm

Limited Seats Available! Register early!

Click here to view programme.


To register, please email us at itrade_events@cimb.com or contact Andre Leong/Justin Law/Angela Saik/Candy Lee at (603) 2092 2516 / (603) 2093 0418.

Yours sincerely,

Private Client Services
This post has been edited by dEviLs: Sep 20 2006, 10:44 AM
liangko
post Sep 22 2006, 02:48 AM

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QUOTE(ky_khor @ Sep 21 2005, 01:46 AM)
"bank is a place where dumb people put their money inside to let the wise people use them for investment and become richer."
*
lol, this phrase is **** meaningful. Yeah, u are right, i'm planning to take out all my money from my current acccount now.
dreamer101
post Sep 22 2006, 03:10 AM

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QUOTE(liangko @ Sep 22 2006, 02:48 AM)
lol, this phrase is **** meaningful. Yeah, u are right, i'm planning to take out all my money from my current acccount now.
*
"bank is a place where dumb people put their money inside to let the wise people use them for investment and become richer."


Liangko,

How do you know you are wise?? For example, I know that I am a dumb person as far as playing Malaysia stock market??

"To be wise is to know when you are dumb or you do not know enough!!"

Dreamer
cherroy
post Sep 22 2006, 09:40 AM

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At least the dumb people has plenty of money to put in to bank otherwise he/she doesn't need to open an bank account. icon_idea.gif

I know what he/she means with that statement some sort of to maximise the return opportunity but in investment sometimes you need to be defensive depends on the market and economy situation, not always trying too aggressive. Offensive strategy during wrong environment will led to quick failure. Now you see lot of hedge fund suffering billions of loss even some has to be winding up by betting oil and natural gas will go much higher instead oil and natural gas plunge to year low. They use bank more than others in some range they has gearing/leverage of 800% e.g. you have 1 dollar but use bank facilities and futures contract so that your bet become like 8 dollar. Sound great if winning but if lossing how? where to find the extra 7 dollar?

Investment strategy needs to be changed time from time, evaluate your strategy and market situation before commit your Hard-Earned money.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Sep 22 2006, 09:53 AM
leekk8
post Sep 22 2006, 10:02 AM

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This is not the issue of dumb or wise. This depends on individual. Usually people think doctor is wise, but we can't say a barber is dumb. This depends on individual's interest. If you interested in investment, then sure you can invest your money and get higher return. If you not interested in investment, it's a wise choice you save your money in bank compared to keep your cash under your pillow.
cherroy
post Sep 22 2006, 11:31 AM

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FD is also a type of investment, just it is low risk low return. It is not nice/right to call it as 'dumb' investment.
When stock market, housing market and commodities price plunge time when financial melt-down/crisis, it becomes a wise investment already.
low yat 82
post Sep 22 2006, 02:10 PM

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jus saw newspaper got anounce new two funds from amanah raya berhad (who manages asw2020 etc)...so where can i buy it?
michaelwong
post Sep 23 2006, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Sep 26 2005, 03:21 PM)
Hi,

1) The one year FD with the rate of 3.7% does not require 100K.  I know because I have a FD with only 5K.

2) Do you know how to do your own calculation as to what is the actual return for insurance?? Are you certain that the return is more than 3.7% per year??

3) Buying and selling share: Have anyone look at how much commission you need to pay for buying and selling shares?? I believe that you need to buy around 20K to 30K RM worth of share and the share need to go up enough for a person to do not lose money.

4) I know I am dumb so I put my money in the bank's FD.  I know I am not smart enough to deal with share.  Plus, from my own calculation the FD return is better than insurance..

5) Unit trust -> Do you know what is annual maintenance fee for the unit trust?? It is fairly high and teh unit trust need to make enough to cover that expenses..

Dreamer
*
FD better dude.. maybank already eat my RM478 for bank charges.. i better use to invest myself. the investment done by the fund manager like SH*T. even i can do more. T*u charge here charge there.. sure one day malaysia unit trust will fall down like spore. trust me. going soon..

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