I think EE is the most suitable sub-forum for this thread which is created specially for LYN forumers who wish to enquire regarding the proper use of the English Language (UK and not American). The incorrect use of the English Language by forumers is so rampant all over the forum and it is especially sad to read it here in EE where most topics and comments are created and posted by undergraduates.

This is not a “look-down” thread on forumers who honestly seek to improve their command of the English Language, or a “boost-up ego” thread for the sincere Grammar Nazi.

So, any forumers who wish to clarify and learn the usage of the English Language, with its nouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives, punctuations, conjunctions, tenses, singular/plural, masculine/feminine, synonyms, collective nouns, etc, please come and participate and we can all learn together.

I do not profess myself to be a grammar nazi, so all sincere LYN Grammar Nazis who wish to assist are most welcome to contribute.

Personally, I don't think this will work. It's not that their English is not good, just that they don't think they should spend their "precious" proper English on the wild internet. In another words, the habit of using proper English anywhere is not instilled into the minds of Malaysians.

Good effort.

This may be a place for those who would want to improve and one way of improving is by typing properly, regardless of whether it's online or offline.

TS, American English too has the standing as UK English. So why not let this thread open to both usages? They're almost similar only different in certain aspects, besides, we can more diverse and have a broad thinking if we're exposed to two or more of those English.

I always had a problem with who whom whose

from my understanding:
whom-to whom were you talking to yesterday?
whose-whose bag is this?
any correction is greatly appreciated.

btw,how and when to use "have had"?FYI,im not talking about past and present tense.

@figure

You're wrong .

Always remember that after
who, always follows by a verb
whom, always follows by a pronoun[I,you,he,she.....]
whose, follows by a noun




'Have you had your dinner yet ?'

Yes I had had my dinner.

Give me an example of grammar nazi on this forum.. I've not encountered any, all moderate, except one who went up to the point of opening a thread on it. That title is relative, and relativity somehow never points to ourselves.

American nt even speak in proper english and follow on the grammar during speaking.I'm a chinese and i speak mandarin but i don't even follow the rules or as to say grammar of mandarin to speak , if i do that i will become a slow speaker

Sounds wrong but right at the same time ?

I think it should be "Yes I have had my dinner" no?

You are right, the present perfect tense is more appropriate.

You don't normally use the past perfect tense (had had) unless you are talking about the 'past within the past' or you wish to refer to an earlier event at a point in time in the past.
'You had had your dinner when I asked you yesterday'.
But when I asked now, you say 'I have had my dinner'.(present perfect).

I find it so common for people to keep making the same mistakes in grammar without them realising it because there is nobody to tell them about it.

Thanks for opening the thread How about this sentence?

"I don't think other brands sells shirts that fits me."

Am I using the plural form correctly? There seem to be too much "s" in it

should be just sell instead of sells

Thanks for the encouragement. If this thread garners active participation by LYN forumers, maybe you can consider having it pinned?

The English Language is the language from England. Hence, I believe we should practise the Queen's English.

Dear reconnaissance, how about you being LYN's 1st official Grammar Nazi? Your input here will really be very much appreciated.

Can I make another suggestion for this thread? Everyone who posts on this thread stands to be corrected. Agreed? No hard feelings, okay, we all learn together.

Dear kailoonthedog, I think I get the gist of what you are trying to convey but I'm afraid it's not properly written there.

Anyone here wants to try and help our fellow forumer?

Americans don't even speak in proper English as well as grammar. I'm a Chinese and I speak Mandarin with grammatical errors. If I do, I will not be able to speak fast enough.

I have heard that English of UK and USA both are different a bit, their accent differ and to the extent the accent is also changed. So the difference also get arises when it comes to write too.

I don't think accent could be changed. If you are English, you'll speak with an English accent but if you are an American, you'll speak with an American accent.

So the difference arises when it comes to written English too.

"I don't think other brands sell shirts that fit me." ?

Accent can be faked, and accent can be changed. That's how most Spec Ops Soldier blend into hostile area.

Just that it require lots of training and effort.

And UK English and American English is indeed different in more ways that one.

There is several articles online, if some people want to know more about the difference.

@TS - Good idea for this thread, can contribute some knowledge to people that is interested to study/understand/enhance their understanding here.

---

Added on August 10, 2011, 1:48 pm" I do not think any other brands that sell shirts that could fit me. " ?

This post has been edited by chiahau: Aug 10 2011, 01:48 PM

Germans who speaks English will have a German accent. However, American English and British English are more or less similar in grammar but their pronunciation differs for specific words such as labour and labor (my typo corrector (whatever its called) is American by the way).

This post has been edited by altan: Aug 10 2011, 02:13 PM

English grammar should be the same irrespective of the user, whether British, American or German. But, like you have mentioned, the pronunciation may differs. And not only that, the spelling of some words differ too. Examples are, "labour" and "labor", "analyse" and analyze" and lots more.

All our spell check and grammar check on our computers are using American English, since they are from American softwares.

I would like to know:

"Many types of pencils" or "Many types of pencil"?

By the way, I would like to share something here:

Difference between fish and fishes? It is not just about plural and singular.

From what I have heard, I know that fish can be used on plural and singular for the same type of fish while fishes is for one or more types of fish.

I wish I am correct. Feel free to correct my grammar. ^^

I always mix up the tenses.....apart from the few "simple" ones.

When should we use will/would and can/could?

This is a good thread. I might be able to learn a thing or two kudos. My English has always been manglish / singaporean english or whatever you wanna call it. But when it comes to proper English, i cant even speak fluently. Too many grammatical errors.

Alright, I'll budge in.
Fish is both singular and plural. Fishes is only plural, however, it is used only to address many types of the fish.
If an aquarium is filled with only piranha, there are many fish in that aquarium. If an aquarium is filled with piranha, sharks, clownfish and so, there are many fishes in that aquarium.
Taught within the syllabus of English in Science and Technology. Subject to errors and correction.

Likewise, there are many types of pencilS...

You can also say:

If an aquarium is filled with piranha, sharks, clownfish and so, there are many fish in that aquarium.

Both words can be used interchangeably.

Pinned thread in this forum on law - which is correct and why?

Guide to become a lawyer

OR

Guide to becoming a lawyer.

The first option is accurate.
"Guide to become a lawyer" suggest a guide to become one. After 'to', the word is preferably the root word. Besides, the 'become' in this context meant the result, not the process, hence the guide to become lawyer.
"Guide to becoming a lawyer" is grammatically incorrect. If insisted on writing in this style, it should be "Guide of becoming a lawyer" as 'becoming' in this context meant the process of being one, not the end result, so the guide is explaining the process.
Subject to errors and correction.

"A student could proceed to university after A levels." "He can't finish his homework in time"

OR

"A student can proceed to university after A levels." "He couldn't finish his homework on time"

Could or can? In or on?


"He will attend school tomorrow."

OR

"He would attend school tomorrow."

Will or would?



This post has been edited by EducationABC: Aug 12 2011, 02:56 PM

http://www.englishpage.com/modals/would.html

Thanks for the link, zstan. From the link, http://www.englishpage.com/modals/would.html

He WILL attend school tomorrow. period
If he were to recover from his flu, he would attend school tomorrow. conditional

Personally, I usually use "would" as the past of "will".

Subject to errors and correction (same as reconnaissance's disclaimer).

'Guide to become a lawyer' is wrong.

Here are some examples :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Guide-Be...r/dp/1405157887
http://www.lawfirmchronicle.com/2011/05/a-...wyer-in-the-us/
http://books.google.com/books?id=uT2ExxJG0...ource=gbs_gdata

You say 'a guide to something, a subject (noun). You don't say 'a guide to do something(verb)'.
The subject is 'becoming a lawyer'. 'Becoming' is the noun, a gerund/verbal noun.

'To' after the word 'guide' is a preposition'. You have mistaken it for the infinitive 'to' which is followed by the root word - to eat, to play, to sing.

Another type of sentence which is similar:

I look forward to seeing you. (Not : I look forward to see you.)

You say you look forward to something(noun). 'Seeing you' is the something.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 12 2011, 08:38 PM

Erm... so how to differentiate between gerund/verbal noun and verb? So does it imply if after "TO" is a gerund noun, we do not need to use back the root word?

By the way, do we need to use back the root word after NEVER?

I don't get the fish and fishes... Is it mean that we can use either one of them without any condition?

Thank you so much! ^^

This post has been edited by DavidWKW: Aug 12 2011, 08:58 PM

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 12 2011, 09:45 PM

Not really sure about the 'to' information. I'll enquire with both my English Language teacher, and my English for Science & Technology teacher. If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.
More information on the fish, fishes, though meant many types of fish can be replaced with just fish in the new module. However, it's best to stick with my elaboration, or search up in the Internet for a formal explanation.
Subject to errors and correction.

Still not convinced? The titles of books published in an English speaking country cannot be wrong.

Let me give you more examples to make it clearer.

You can have guides to different topics/subjects, e.g. a guide to photography, guide to sports, guide to careers, etc.

You can also have - guide to taking pictures, guides to playing badminton or guide to a career in law/becoming a lawyer.

The phrases underlined are different topics or subjects(nouns, not verbs) and are to be read together.

Probably, the phrase 'to becoming' per se may sound unfamiliar to you as you have been taught that 'to' should always be followed by a root word.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 13 2011, 03:00 PM

I stand corrected. Truth to be told, I've never had a formal English education, but an informal education had made me near-native to the language. This would certainly be a spark to begin an actual English study.

Informal education? As in home-schooling?
Care to elaborate?

I've dual-enrolled in kindergardens from morning to evening as to provide a language and literacy foundation, and that was probably my only formal education in English Language. From primary to current, I was constantly either excused from English syllabi for extracurricular trainings or was deprived of it since my English teacher, also my class teacher, used the periods to discuss extrasyllabi matters.
Informal education in my context is indeed home-schooling, but only for languages. Self-study as others call it.

That is really impressive.
Do you mind telling us what is your mother tongue, how many languages do you speak, and how fluent are you in all of them?

This post has been edited by EducationABC: Aug 13 2011, 05:45 PM

Hope you don't mind but there is a very common mistake in the above sentence.

The sentence should be written as:

Do you mind telling us what your mother tongue is, how many languages you speak and how fluent you are in all (each) of them?

---

Added on August 13, 2011, 6:28 pmIt seems you spent most of your time on extra-curricular activities and didn't get to attend regular classroom lessons thoughout your school career. How come?

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 13 2011, 06:34 PM

Thank you for correcting my mistakes^^

I think I got it. If I can replace the word after TO with "Something", then I will not need to use back the root word. For example,
I like to eat. I cannot replace eat using something, so I have to use back the root word.

Guide to becoming a lawyer. I can say guide to something. So I do not need to use back the root word.

Is it true? Thank you^^

That's right, there are many usages of the word 'to'.

As a preposition - I go to school. Guide to (a subject).

EducationABC,
My mother tongue language, as defined by the Oxford's Advanced Learners Dictionary to be my first language, is the English Language and is quite manipulative of my accent.
So far, I'm grown naturally to understand Malay Language, simple Iban, Mandarin and other Chinese dialects including Hokkien, Cantonese, Hakka and Foochow. Now, I'm interested in mastering them as well as other Chinese dialects or any local languages before even thinking of pursuing foreign languages.
How about you?

hello all, i need help in how to use
1)worse
2)worst
any help will be highly appreciated.

Worse is a comparative, a word that compare between two stuffs.
Therefore, worse should be used to compare between two things, such as in the phrase, "My apple is worse than yours". You can also break the comparison to two sentences, as in, "Your apple is bad. However, my apple is worse." Always note that comparative words must oppose to something.
Worst is a superlative, a word that express the highest level of something.
Therefore, for worst, it is the highest level of 'badness' you can achieve. In a phrase, "My apple is the worst." That means the apple is the baddest compared to all there is.
Briefly, you can treat worse as 'lebih buruk' and worst as 'paling buruk'.
Subject to errors and correction.

bad - worse - worst
(positive - comparative - superlative) in grammar terms

They are the different degrees of adjectives. Adjectives are words to describe a noun/thing.
The comparative is used to compare two things.
The superlative is used to compare three or more things.

Other examples:

good - better - best
happy - happier - happiest
beautiful - more beautiful - most beautiful

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 14 2011, 12:50 PM

thx guys.

Want to ask... If I receive a call and I would like to know how to call him as? How should I say?

@DavidWKW How to address you Sir ? ( a lil too serious )

I think that's fine though. Perhaps, it can be "Excuse me sir, but may I know how should I address you?" Think it's a bit lengthy in my opinion. =/

Alright, here's another one on telephone etiquette. Let's say you are on the line and the person on the other side is looking for you (Good morning Sir/Madam, may I speak to Mr/Ms. [insert your name here]?), which of the following is the appropriate response?

1) Speaking.

2) This is he/she.

Are there any distinctions between the above two? The first one is by far the most common response and as for the second one, it's hardly used here in Malaysia (don't know about other countries) from what I have observed.

Also, are there any other responses besides the above two? Mind sharing them?

P.S If there are any grammatical errors, do point them out.

This post has been edited by edge_seraph: Aug 16 2011, 11:21 AM

There's multiple method for that, with each suits a particular setting.
For a formal, or serious talks, such as if you're a receptionist, an assistant or any career requiring you to answer calls, a formal reply should ensue.
"May I know how am I to address you, (sir /ma'am) ?"
"May I know your name (sir / ma'am) ?
The point that the sir or ma'am are in brackets is because they are optional. There's no need to discriminate their gender, just be direct. Don't use them especially if you can't differentiate the voice of a female or male.
A less formal alternative would be,
"May I know who's on the phone?"
"May I know who's this?"
"May I know who am I speaking to?"
Or the informal alternative, which is only suitable for a friend or if you're reluctant to promote English proficiency in Malaysia.
"This is?"
"You are?"
"Your name?"
It'll depend on the setting.

---

Added on August 16, 2011, 2:39 pmI do realise that I had grammatical errors on my answer. However, the Edit link on the mobile site is currently unavailable. And, I'm really exhausted today.

This post has been edited by reconnaissance: Aug 16 2011, 02:39 PM

1) "No, I am pretending to be not the one you are looking for so that you can leave me alone because judging from your way of talking, I can tell you are just reading out a script tailored for telemarkerters, you sorry piece of sh*t!"

2) Yes, I am whom you are looking for (Warning, Malaysians cannot differentiate between "who, and "whom"!).

3) Yes, I am he/she (Similar to your "This is he/she"), but beware, Malaysians don't understand these eitquette nonsense!

4) "Speaking" is commonly used by ASIANS everywhere, if you believe class and distincition is leaned towards the language they are using.

You preferred English, and accpted not only as a language, but a WAY OF LIFE. THat's how you got it so good.

Others? They study English because it is important, but always trying to retain their "original culture", and it is because of their refraining acts, they can never speak as good as you, and as any native English speakers.

Food for thought. Guess which side I of the "culture" I am at.

You obviously haven't seen how dynamic English can be used in theatrics. Read a book of Hamlet, and you will understand.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Aug 16 2011, 04:00 PM

This is an incomplete sentence.
A proper sentence consists of a subject and a predicate.
There is no subject here.

It's like saying:

How to go there?
How to solve this problem?

You can say:
How should I address you, Sir/mdm?

---

Added on August 16, 2011, 5:21 pmIf the call is for someone else, you can say:

Who should I say is calling, please?

(wrong)

Who am I speaking to?
May I know who I am speaking to?

'I am' is suiperfluous. Of course, you are speaking, who else?

May I know who is speaking, please?

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 16 2011, 05:35 PM

Sorry for the late reply. My first language is......well I can't be sure which language it is! English is usually used for reading and writing(in almost every case, apart from a few mandarin homework and newspapers) while Chinese is used 85% of the time in conversations. The remainder is English and and a few Malay sentences used to communicate with teachers. In my school, Chinese students are the majority, obviously I live in Selangor.

1) Speaking - Not fluent in any languages that I have learned. For Mandarin, I use sentences with slight grammatical errors, sometimes serious ones and I am not fluent unless I am reading out aloud. Malay is almost nonexistent, but I could still read. As for english, I speak Manglish in daily conversations, but I could write a good script.

2) Reading
a) English-- upper intermediate.

b) Mandarin-- lower intermediate(I guess, I got A for PMR, not exactly rare, but not common either, considered "good" in class)

c) Malay-- I don't know, no problem understanding anything so far.

3)Writing
a) English-- Best among three, upper intermediate (Still, grammatical errors are there, try spot one in this post!)

b) Mandarin-- Lower intermediate, grammatical errors are few only because I don't use complex sentences often. Considered "good" in class. The truth is, the standard of mandarin is quite low in Malaysia, so I don't really know where I stand.

c) Malay- 60 to 80 out of 100 on SPM karangan, depending on the topic and time allocated.

Listening- Not quite a problem for any of the three languages.

2) Yes, I believe you. I was once that type of person.

3) Yes, I believe you. I have never heard about it before.

Of course there are exceptions, but generally, I agree with you. The first language that I have learned is English in kindergarten. But during 6 years of schooling in a SJK{C} school, I have immersed myself totally in chinese language and culture. It made English almost nonexistent in my daily life for that period, resulting in my poor English. After standard 6, I entered a SMK school and I immediately put in effort to improve my english. My english improved, but the negligence of Chinese language and the fact Smk schools have only 90 minutes of Chinese language lessons had worn off the edge I initially have in Chinese language. Now, I am lost between the two. Well, not exactly lost but it makes me hard to say which is my first language. I mean, when people ask you what is your first language, they often expect you to be proficient in that language, right?

I guess you are chinese as well, right?

Oops, I have used that a little too often.

This post has been edited by EducationABC: Aug 16 2011, 06:16 PM

My first language is......well I can't be sure which language it is!

This must be the commonest grammar mistake.

Yeah I am Chinese. But judging from the way I type and speak, I'm sure you can tell that many of my Chinese brethren expects me to be more CHinese than I am right now lol.

Indeed it is. In Chinese language, you wouldn't have to worry too much about this, even more so in Malay. The mistake has been corrected.

Good thread,i'd love to participate.what about predicate nominative ?you didnt mention it .You didnt mention it

I am glad this thread has taken off so nicely and I hope all who participate would get to learn from it. We do have a handful of Grammar Nazis here and hopefully, putting arrogance aside, they could teach us a thing or two. Thanks!

I'm sure you meant "read a book of Shakespeare's works"?

Yes, I've read some of his works, Macbeth, King Lear, Othello, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Twelfth Night, Romeo and Juliet, and Hamlet. Indeed, those are some of his remarkable works and I have this fascination of Shakespearean English.

If Shakespeare had invented Barney, he'd be singing, "I love thee, thou lovest me..."

It sounds that you've been keeping track with shakespears's books,you must be a book worm then.

I have this fascination of Shakespearean English.

Do you mean 'fascination for'?

Not really a bookworm, but I studied some of his literary works in high school, which created an interest in me to continue reading his other works and even those of Jane Austen and of poets like Keats, Eliot, Kipling etc.

---

Added on August 16, 2011, 7:18 pmYes, fascination for...
Thanks for the correction.


This post has been edited by Mercedes: Aug 16 2011, 07:18 PM

While browsing through the posts in this thread, I recognized a post explaining that I made English a way of life, while the others try to retain their cultures.
What made you think I don't retain my culture? I speak Hokkien with my aunts and uncles on a regular basis, English with my parents on a regular basis, Malay with friends on a regular basis, Chinese with some classmates on a regular basis. And, by regular basis, I meant always, almost every single day.
I retain my culture, unlike those "bimbo" "Paris Hilton-like" Chinese that I myself also hate.

Thank you to those who have answered my question.^^ By right, it should be to those of for those? How to differentiate both of them?

Why do we need to invert I and am when we have May I in front of the sentence? Can you explain more in details?

Thank you very much^^

...I am - used as a noun clause
am I - used as a question

Read this: http://www.urch.com/forums/toefl-grammar/2...-noun-verb.html

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 17 2011, 05:02 PM

Thank you very much^^

Btw, why curiosity is not spelled as curiousity? There are curiousness and curiously buy why not curiousity?

Thank you! ^^

What a question.
You can also ask:
Why forty is not spelt fourty? Why viscosity and not spelt viscousity?
Why the past tense and past perfect tense of cut is also cut.
There are always exceptions to the rule in English. That's what makes it difficult. You just have to remember the spellings as they are.

Got it! Ty^^

If you have further questions, you can ask them here:

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/

You'll get answers from the experts.

BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO BUFFALO.

Just to share with you all the sentence, it's perfectly correct in grammar.

I like this thread!
I've learned English via online forum before since I was 14 or so because of Amazing Race. and I can see how I've improved after 4 years. But I still encountered some problems, I do not have wide vocabularies and I've a lot of grammatical errors. I still couldn't understand most of the words nor sentences in an English novel. I could speak in English with my Chinese and Indian friends but I realise that I do not use proper grammar. For example " Have you eat? " . Instead of " Have you eaten? " right?. I hope this thread will at least help me to improve more.

p/s - Please correct me !

This post has been edited by iAdor3 Naz: Aug 18 2011, 08:57 PM

What should I write in a career aspiration for scholarship application? Can I include story in it? Thank you^^

What do you mean by story? Do you present your career aspiration by a story?

You'd have to check for the essay requirement instruction, on whether it is a personal statement, free essay or otherwise.
For a personal statement, career aspiration would surely fit, as it describe about you, as in how a certain something shape the dream behind your spirit and motivation.
It'll depend much on the instruction given.

This thread are not active enough as how I expected it to be ;( ~

Well.. No relevant questions are currently in discussion.

well ,lets make one... what is the tips to have a proper English language?

for instant, Avoid alliteration. Always.

instance?

Why avoid alliteration? It is commonly found in the poems or any literary works though. Like other languages, sometimes alliteration will make your essay more interesting. Still, if you are unsure about those, maybe short and simple sentences will do the trick.

What is alliteration by the way?

http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2011/08/25/ele...waiting-for-psc

Even Lim Kit Siang frequently makes this common grammar mistake - wrong order of noun and verb. It should have been : what the electoral reforms are.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 26 2011, 01:02 PM

Erm... I meant can i add story like gospel story in my essay? and of course the story of me?

Thank you XD

It does not include any more details. It just wrote " Write a short essay on your career aspirations in the box provided below"

It does mention aspirationS, so I need to include more than one right? I should write something like what I want to be after my degree, is it?

Thank you XD

In a society where English proficiency is immense, and formal languages adhered to grammatical rules as if they are normal in everyday communications, then the 's' would count.
There won't be a ground rule of rejection if you don't write more than one. In this context, the plural in the aspiration is placed in case the applicants want to write more than one.
Don't need to worry. Career aspiration can encompass many things, from what inspires you, to what you want / aspire from this career, to what do you hope for.
It'll be okay as long as you can grasps the reviewer's interest while yet describing your interest of the topic.

Thank you but I am not so clear what should I do after my degree... I just have a rough image... so, is it ok?

If you have a rough image, or your actual aspiration is shittily boring, then make up one. Create it with mixture of factual fantasy and creative imagination.
All you should care about in application essays is to grab the reviewer's attention and interest, but yet fulfilling the essay criteria. Truth isn't enough, so additional reinforcement of creativity is really needed.
All you should really remember is that you are the applicant, so all you need to do it to make them accept you at all cost. They won't rescind your entry once you've entered for dishonest aspiration. That'll be absurd.
However, always be reminded that you cannot lie about real factual and permanent details, such as death of family member, iconic past, or participation in prestigious functions that are untrue. That'll be the reason of dishonest application, since all those can be checked and investigated, although they won't bother to do so.

Lo XD Ty ^^ Btw, I am quite confused about the term aspiration... It means what I want to be in the future ight? or does it mean what inspire me to take the degree? Thank you^^

This post has been edited by DavidWKW: Aug 27 2011, 08:30 PM