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 Discussion about watercooling and the results, Version 2

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ianho
post Jul 27 2005, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(kelvin_hata @ Jul 27 2005, 11:58 AM)
[img]
omg...is cool drool.gif
5*120mm fan
*
Man. That has got to b the biggest rad around. N it looks damn good too. Imagine that rad with a big pump n the Storm block.


QUOTE
QUDERN Posted Today, 03:07 PM
  I've got a Reserator and I've just purchased the Storm. What if the loop is very short ( Reserator -> CPU -> Reserator ) I'm all for the aesthetics of my workstation, that's why I went for the Reserator cause I do not like see tubes and pump all over the place. What pump would be suitable to be placed inside the Reserator ? I want a pump that's small enough to fit inside the Reserator like the original pump inside.

Have anyone of you tried the standard Reserator with a Storm ?

Anyway, thanks for all the input. Cheers

I think the best small pump to fit ure reserator yet with adequate specs for the Storm wud b the MCP350 with 4m head n 350lph flow. This is the minimum that Swiftech specs for the Storm. This is the pump in my Corsair Cool kit too. It's very small n quiet. I can't even hear the pump. What r the specs of ure reserator pump though?



This post has been edited by ianho: Jul 27 2005, 04:59 PM
ianho
post Jul 27 2005, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(QUDERN @ Jul 27 2005, 09:19 PM)
The MCP350(tm) 12 VDC Pump is rated at 350L/h
Maximum Integrated Water Pump for Reserator : 5 W, Qmax 300L/h
Maximum Lift  : 0.5m dammit  mad.gif

Mind borrowing me for a day to see if it fits my Reserator  laugh.gif
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0.5m lift? Phuiyoh, that really sux man. We swap lah. I pinjam u the pump, u pinjam me ure 20" ACD. thumbup.gif



QUOTE(pr0di9y @ Jul 27 2005, 09:49 PM)
Some pumps are build to run dry, if you submerge the MCP350. Prepare to RMA it. I think the best is still to change the whole setup. That is your best choice with the Storm block from Swiftech.

Btw can anyone confirm what Ohm variable resistor should I use for my MCP650 from voltage 7-12v? So far I know that I have to use 6 Ohm.
*
The Reserator uses submerged pump kah? Didn't know that. Ooooooops.

ianho
post Aug 1 2005, 07:09 PM

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My MCP350 pump just died on me this morning. cry.gif cry.gif Turned on my PC n went to make a cup of coffee. About 5 minutes later I came back to the PC with my cup of coffee n the PC hanged. Cudn't move the cursor. Then I looked at my Guru Clock n the temp was 80C! Immediately did a hard shutdown by pulling the plug. Thank god I only left the PC for bout 5 minutes. There's more bad news. The temp on the CPU water block was so hot that the tube deformed just enuf to start a leaky drip. After I pulled the plug. I opened the side panel to see what happened. There was coolant on my AGP slot, GC, PCI slots n even the bottom of the case had a pool of water. $HITE! Bloody hell man. I bought a branded kit so that I dont hafta kena nightmare like that n it still happens n only after having the kit for 2 months. What can I do dudes? Can I ask Cudo to exchange a different model pump for the warranty claim ah? No more confidence in the bloody MCP350. Supposed to b an industrial grade pump with 50000hour lifespan sumore. vmad.gif vmad.gif vmad.gif

I just spent the whole day stripping down the PC. Then used the hairdryer to dry all the components thoroughly for a few hours. Then reinstalled everything back with my TT Silent Tower n the stock 6800GT cooler. Crossed my fingers, prayed, booted up n luckily everything works just fine. Thank god my whole PC miraculously survived this horrible event. If it had happened while I was sleeping then the whole PC wud have died man. vmad.gif vmad.gif vmad.gif

ianho
post Aug 1 2005, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(sniper on the roof @ Aug 1 2005, 07:20 PM)
My condolenses for your dearly departed pump.

Think of the bright side lor...at least the GODS of Hardware are watching over you and the rig survived.

Ps: But boss...please lar get rid of that "SilentTower"..it's just obscene.
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Aiyaaaa. What's wrong with the Silent Tower? It's good man. Idle n load temps almost as good as my water cooling kit. Just that the sound from the UFO fan is a killer. Loud as hell. Anyway, using it now to satisfy my cravings for my daily dose of games. God knows how long the RMA gonna take. From what I hear Cudo has a really good reputation in terms of customer service so I hope they change it for a better model or sumthin. If they give me another MCP350, I'm gonna throw a big fit in the office man. If I really don't get a better pump from Cudo then I'll just keep the MCP350 as a spare.



QUOTE(almostthere @ Aug 1 2005, 07:37 PM)
This is why I've always preferred AC based pumps cos at least you have to power it up 1st and know that it runs in the 1st place. And also the fact that crappy gremlins of the PSU won't really affect you
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Those aquarium pumps run on AC right? I remember having a really good Fluval brand aquarium canister filter n that ran 24/7 for years with all the fish crap n algae n everything. What wud b a good pump to buy. I'm willing to spend up 300 on it.




QUOTE(kelvin_hata @ Aug 1 2005, 08:03 PM)
ianho....sure or not?
i use same brand wit u ler...
asikk...u running 24/7?
but my "air besar" is running 24/7 loh...no problem at all...
corsair cool jus for OC saje, not yet try 24/7 running...
*
I was running it 24/7. That's y I'm so lucky that I switched it off for 2 days coz I wasn't at home. I dread to think what wud haf happened if it was leaking while I wasn't home. It could haf shorted out everything n started a fire or sumthin. sweat.gif




QUOTE(shreaker @ Aug 1 2005, 09:54 PM)
Looks like u got one of the rotten apples... that 50000 hour lifespan is MeanTimeBeforeFailure or something... so maybe yours just happens to be on the wrong side of mean? tongue.gif Just go swap it for a new one! Mention a few times that it caused your comp to get all wet and caused you undue mental anguish... maybe they'll throw in some freebies hahaha
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What apple? I think they sold me the rotten seed oni. Hahaha. Sux man.

This post has been edited by ianho: Aug 1 2005, 11:36 PM
ianho
post Aug 2 2005, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(PowerSlide @ Aug 2 2005, 06:02 PM)
fulamak very dahsyat one waterblock for nvidia 6XXX cards..made of silver n only 3 of it..call it octopus..

saw this in other forum..

http://www.devilmaster.org/modules.php?nam...order=0&thold=0[/url]
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Phuiyoooh. Very nice work of art. But it's a very scary thought with all those joints thereby increasing the chances of leakage. I'm sooooo paranoid of leaks now I'm even thinking of going back to air cooling for good. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
ianho
post Aug 4 2005, 04:18 AM

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QUOTE(sniper on the roof @ Aug 2 2005, 11:29 PM)
Perhaps the moral of the lesson here is ....

Set a conservative shutdown templaugh.gif
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The lowest shutdown temp I can set on the AV8 is 75C. I did set it at 75C but dunno y when I noticed the thing hang it was oredi showing 80C.
ianho
post Aug 13 2005, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(almostthere @ Aug 11 2005, 07:12 PM)
  Corsair sets too. You can always ask ianho about the Corsair sets as well. For a better guide to what you should consider when getting into the WC scene, read the WC guide which me and amok have created in the sticky's section

Cheers
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Haha. Ask ianho bout his nightmare! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Few thousand $$$$ nearly went up in steam. Thank god my rig survived without any probs. Mebe using pure distilled, deionised water n keeping my rig as dust free as humanly possible helped save it. I've read that even if u use deionised fluid or those expensive non conducting fluids, it's the dust that conducts electricity when the liquid spills onto the dusty parts. Phew! Luckily I'm 1 hell of an obsessive person when it comes to a dust free rig. Anyway, I was just very unlucky to get a defective pump which is supposed to b really reliable n solid.



QUOTE(almostthere @ Aug 11 2005, 10:03 PM)
Not to mention all these custom made systems are of 1/2 OD/ID which is still the recommended size compared to Tt's 3/8"
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The TT Airbesar is not even running 3/8 ID hose man. The hose is thin like a pencil.

BTW, I just wanna ask u guys, r the Eheim 1046 n 1048 pumps any good? They're priced at rm250 n rm300 respectively. The 1250 is massively priced at rm500. Saw them at Ikano Pet World. The Eheim pumps r built like tanks. Really nice quality. Will the 1046 n 1048 flow enuf for my CPU, GPU, rad, reservoir loop? I saw the famous Hydor L20 at the PC fair n it was a really puny pump compared to the Eheim 1046 n 1048.

I'm waiting to c what pump I get from the RMA 1st. Coz the new MCP350 comes with a mobo rpm sensor wire so I can hook that up to shut down immediately if the pump dies n not wait for the temps to reach harakiri levels like previously. Hahaha. I may still buy the Eheim pump even with the new type MCP350 if it flows better. What u swimming gurus think?



Edit: Just did sum research n looks like the Eheim 1048 is very highly regarded by the kuai lows. 600lph n 5 foot head pump. N it's also quite affordable at only rm298. I've read that it's got a lifetime warranty, very very quiet n very reliable n more than enuf flow at 600lph. Anybody here tried the Eheim 1048?

This post has been edited by ianho: Aug 13 2005, 06:27 PM
ianho
post Aug 14 2005, 03:06 AM

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QUOTE(kelvin_hata @ Aug 14 2005, 03:02 AM)
lol...air besar running in my barton system 24/7
no problem til 3month.... laugh.gif
*
Just make sure ure Airbesar don't actually buang airbesar on ure rig. Hahahahahaa.
ianho
post Aug 26 2005, 04:11 AM

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QUOTE(almostthere @ Aug 14 2005, 06:00 PM)
Ok, I'm corrected over that matter. And yes, 3/8" not bad also. In fact the Europeans prefer to use that as it's a good compromise between flow rate restriction and airflow restriction if based on what I've seen so far actually. However, Cathar in Xtreme has recommended a new type of tubing which I'm not pretty clear about which is about 3/8" ID but has some property's similiar to TYgon's and has rather a smooth inner wall surface. But I'd bet that sort of tubing would cost a bomb

And ianho, I'd suggest you have a look at these charts


user posted image
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From this chart, the Eheim 1048 flows the same 94gph as the MCP350 though the Eheim pumps a lot more in free flow. Y? Coz of less Qmax?




QUOTE(mADmAN @ Aug 24 2005, 06:15 PM)
hey....anyone has any info on the vantec WC kit? price? availability? and most importantly reviews?

http://www.vantecusa.com/products/stg100/p_stg100.html
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This Vantec kit was shown at the recent PC Fair wat. Quite a nice looking set up. I wud say it shud b an OK set up coz it's at least using a Hydor L20 pump.
ianho
post Oct 2 2005, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(pizzaboy @ Oct 2 2005, 03:30 PM)
I think, I might try watercooling .

So after reading, I assume that the bigger the reservoir is ,the better the cooling?

The larger the radiator area, the better dissipation?
I'll be using  four 120MM fans running at 7V. Two push-two pull (any radiator can right? Car rads?)

1/2" tubes. Shorter the better, increase flow pressure?

Now what pump?
And what waterblock?
Just mau test cuba-cuba aja, tak payah too high-end la.

Maybe something that promises at least 5C drop from my XP-90C setup can adi.

Think can get everything below ....RM500?
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Holy cow, 4X120mm fans n car rad? That'll not only give u more than 5C drop from the XP90C. It'll blow the socks off the XP90 n kick it into the longkang man. Hahaha. But it'll b biyotch ugly with such a humongous rad. Hahahaha.
ianho
post Oct 7 2005, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(amok @ Oct 4 2005, 12:34 PM)
biggrin.gif , i dunno if it's a bit too early to have a discussion about the G4, but what the heck  drool.gif  drool.gif .. let's get on with it... say shall we start with the suitable pump for this block:

1.  The G4 was design to give optimum Delta T with pure impingement properties to out perform the older cascade design by cathar.. which main obejctive is to achieve a higher heat transfer rate which doesn't require a higher flow rates.  Thus based on Forster's (aka Cathar) quotes at [H]ard|Forum:

"........, such as would be suitable for use with an Eheim 1046 and 3/8" ID tubing for which 2-3GPM would be the typical sort of flow rate"

2. Flow rate convert from Gallon to liter = 2G x 3.7854 = 7.5708L/min = 454.248 L/hr.. hrmmm..  even a nirox P2800 with 1200L/hr Qmax and at 1.8m Heads max at RM 28.00 will work great for this baybeh... heheh... then again lets take into consideration that a "pure" impingement design blocks are highly restrictive... even higher than those of the cascade design.. we need a good Heads to maintain that flow rate after taking into consideration the heads lost in the line and heatexchanger/rads..  Not sure if that 1.8m Heads Max will cut it  sweat.gif

3.  Ok lets look at the comparison chart (generated from procooling):


As you can see the G4 is in a league of its own at flow rate of higher than 1G/m or 3.7854 L/m and above and i'm comparing it with the best COMMERCIAL W/block availabe.. in my opinion, it's oso an added advantage to use a good 2000 L/hr pump to run this babey... remember it's a pure impingement design, Higher Q better Temps(oh O.T. a bit:  when it comes to performance at higher flow rate, DD RBX pwned  Swifty MCW6002 on Delta T)...

4.  Regarding the Heads Max for the pump, unfortunately, i hadn't had enough data or resources regarding the resisitivity of the block yet.. will google me self and add later.. as what TJeye reckon using a D5 on this block will be great but in my opinion wasn't necessary why? 1.  RM 3XX.00!!  2. RM 3XX.00 and 3. RM3XX.00.

Hahahahahahahahaaa... enjoy reading and let's discuss further.
*
Wow! Cathar sez that even the little Eheim 1046 will do fine? NICE. That means that the block doesn't really need such a high spec pump after all.





QUOTE(almostthere @ Oct 4 2005, 12:50 PM)
All I can say is this, at any GPM rate one has in terms of pump usage, you'd still see huge gains in terms of delta values. However a question remains as to the effect of heat dump by the pump towards the block and it's implications towards it. But hey with a Delta value drop of by 4 compared to a Maze 4, who's gonna whine about it?

But I'd say the sweet point in terms of flowrates would be around the 1.5gpm mark as beyond that would be more difficult/expensive to achieve in the frist place. A D5 and overvolting it comes into mind but if you're not gonna be bench crazy, your common Nirox P2800's/Hydor L20 and and Laing MCP 350's would be more then upto task with it. Just don't mention Bigwater's pump sweat.gif
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Talking bout cheap pumps. For those interested to know, I saw the Eheim 1046 for only rm250 n the 1048 at only rm298. So it wont cost all that much to power the G4 after all.
ianho
post Nov 18 2005, 02:09 AM

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Hello people. Haha. My WC setup is back online. Everything finally came home from the RMA after 3 long months n sum very nasty recent emails from me to Cudo Sdn Bhd.

So nice to see my temps waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down again as compared to the stock AMD cooler n even the great Zalman VF700Cu is no match for the water block on the GC.

I was just wondering if any of u fellas r running a 5.25 bay reservoir with hairline cracks that's repaired with silicone sealant? I've got cracks on both inlet n outlet barbs. very very miniscule leak, after few hours leak test oni can c a little bit of blue at the cracks(coz I'm using blue CM Thermal Fluid). No actual dripping. I've sealed them up with silicone n allowed them to cure for 12 hours b4 using. U guys reckon it's OK or shud I order a new reservoir?

Oh yah. 1 tip for guys needing new hoses. I changed all my hoses to new hoses. Very very good quality hoses with the markings n everything on it. very flexible n yet no kinks. Very nice n clear too. My 3/8"ID 1/2"OD tubes only cost rm0.90 per foot. Go check them out at 1Utama DIY shop. Only recently the stocks came back in. It was out of stock for ages.


QUOTE(bmbk @ Nov 17 2005, 05:17 PM)
budget is RM400 - RM500.

I am trying if i can equip everything inside the case. i am interested with GPU water cooling as well. Do you think the cooler you have with some modification like bigger radioter can do a trick ?

and sniper, i have read the review of the mini, they are priced around RM250. But i doubt they can do better then WC-202.

about custom set, i worried about the leak. i will going to low yat this sunday, maybe i will go around and see if there is any custom set.
*
Haha. good luck. When it comes to water cooling parts, it's called Lau Ya Plaza. I tried to find new reservoir today n nobody selling anything but the stupid mickey mouse Thermaltake M3 bay reservoir. I had to fix my reservoir with silicone sealant instead.

This post has been edited by ianho: Nov 18 2005, 02:10 AM
ianho
post Nov 18 2005, 11:33 PM

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QUOTE(louyeh @ Nov 18 2005, 10:33 AM)
bay reservoirs tend to have leaks from the barbs. worst is HDPE res, youll never know how tight to screw it in cuz the threads can expand.

silicone sealant will work fine. just use the white type, not the translucent one.
*
Oh shite. I did mine with the clear type which dries to crystal clear look. Looks very nice as compared to the white type. Oh well, I suppose I'll run it like that first n c how.




QUOTE(almostthere @ Nov 18 2005, 12:30 PM)
Lookslike Swiftech's gone and done it again. New WB coming out soon and it's called the Apogee. Here's what I managed to grab from XS

Topic spotted here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80366
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Haf u guys seen the new Swiftech kit? Very nice. Good solid kit n all ready made. Just buy n install. It comes with the Storm block, MCW655 pump, BIX2 rads n the new trend 7/16" hoses.

ianho
post Nov 19 2005, 03:16 AM

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QUOTE(MetalZone @ Nov 19 2005, 12:41 AM)
the APEX kit eh? actually its not a BIX2 rad. neither is it a BIP2. coz the thickness is 34mm. BIP is 25mm thick while BIX is 45mm thick.
anybody got ideas on what rads those "quiet power" swiftech rads are?
*
Ya. I just checked back in the magazine n it says the rad is a MCR-220 rad.
ianho
post Nov 19 2005, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(MetalZone @ Nov 19 2005, 09:26 PM)
hey,
u know where to find 1/2" ID solid clear acrylic tube ar?
i've seen people use copper 90 degree angle tubes as well... do u know where to get those? what about acrylic or brass ones?

btw, the vantec stingray uses 3/8" tubing according to ray99mond.
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It's not 3/8 IIRC. Coz I remember reading reviews about it saying that the only bad thing bout it is that they wished Vantec wud use bigger hoses such as 3/8 at least. I suspect they're using only 1/4 hoses like the Airbesar.
ianho
post Nov 21 2005, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(pornstar @ Nov 20 2005, 11:54 PM)
guys..im confused about tubings measurements..does the outer diameter matters?my theory is the thinner the walls the more flexible it is but allows for easier kinking and otherwise..and for pumps i need to know whats the difference between the D5 and the DDC?my setup will be a BIP3 and a storm and i`ll be adding a gpu wb in the future..which pump should i go with?
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The hoses actually come in sum pretty standard sizes. ie 3/8id n 1/2od n so on. But it's possible to get sum weird sizes I suppose. The important thing is what type of hose joints ure using. If u use normal barbs then it's OK coz it just depends on the ID of the hose. BUT if u use compression fittings then the OD must match the fittings.
ianho
post Nov 24 2005, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(MetalZone @ Nov 21 2005, 08:07 PM)
from procooling... one hell of a waterblock...
*
Holy cow. That looks awesome man. Looks like an F1 exhaust manifold. Haha.




QUOTE(almostthere @ Nov 24 2005, 04:36 PM)
Many have ditched their Bigwater's for a DIY setup or (I can't believe I'm saying this cos ianho will kill me) Corsair's HydroCool set.
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Haha. Y wud I kill u. The Corsair Cool is a good kit. It's practically a custom set with all the parts taken from the Swiftech catalog wat. Just that it all comes ready in a box. Just plug n play. I was just really unlucky to get the 1st gen retail kits that came with the 1st gen MCP350 pumps that had inherent design flaws n no RPM sensor wire for safety cut off. The new kits now come with the new revision pump which I received from the RMA. thumbup.gif Yippeekaiyay, gonna crank up my CPU speed again after suffering at 2.25Ghz for 3 months.

This post has been edited by ianho: Nov 24 2005, 09:51 PM
ianho
post Nov 25 2005, 09:29 PM

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QUOTE(pornstar @ Nov 25 2005, 04:34 PM)
its not produced anymore?sayang man....how does the china made ones fare?
*
My China made 12cm Panaflo comes with the kit. It's a FBA12G12L model. It's much thicker than normal 12cm fans. Flows 69CFM n very very silent. Doesn't matter where it's made I reckon. After all the label says "Made in China from Japanese and foreign components". It's just assembled by the chinaman.
ianho
post Nov 26 2005, 01:36 AM

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QUOTE(amok @ Nov 25 2005, 11:10 PM)
awright then, tawkey ianho is using them chinese one, sarge almostthere is using the japs one, both performance're identical, xcept fore the quality of the core wound for the motor. that's all... (which do effect the life span of the motor)
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The specs say 69CFM. If I were to put another fan also rated at 70CFM say for eg. the NMB that's widely available here. In a push pull config. U think I'll get any significant drop in temps? I've seen the NMBs in action n they're pretty quiet too.
ianho
post Nov 27 2005, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(sniper on the roof @ Nov 27 2005, 07:05 PM)
Update a bit... (thinly veiled bump)

Storm --> In da house
MCW55 --> In da house
BIX --> In da house
MCP650 --> In da house (scrapped the D5 plan and got this instead. Cheaper)
Bunch of barbs and all --> In da house.
Tubing --> Can't blardy find good ones!!!! Gonna Fedex some tygons

Edit:
Panaflo's are no more di. Gone. Extinct.  cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif
Taken over by NMB brand.
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Told u oredi lar. Nonid Tygon. Just go n get sum Food Grade hoses is just as nice.


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