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 RCCB/ELCB 100mA still nuisance trip!, during lightning storms

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clickNsnap
post May 25 2016, 08:59 PM

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QUOTE(keyz @ May 21 2016, 11:31 AM)
Use 2ndary board with distance less than 50cm . Like this example:

[attachmentid=6688343]
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Thanks! keyz. Most likely I will having the same set-up as your picture.

QUOTE(Richard @ May 24 2016, 10:04 PM)
The function of a surge protection device is to prevent a sudden Surge of Voltage from damaging your electronics by providing a path of least resistance to ground.. a protection against lightning strikes to overhead electrical lines and or from bad earth rods (which picks from impact  zones and carries the voltage surges to your box) .

Only if this is the case then you can install it anywhere from your kwh meter cables to your distribution box.. A common practice is to install inside the DB but its not the only way to have it installed..

You can have it installed in its own enclosure after the kwh meter at any point before the DB (thus the equipment to be protected)... connect all phase/neutral cables to the SPD and connect SPD to a known good ground. (Ground rod reading below One Ohm)..
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Thanks! Richard. I will ask electrician to install the SPD for me and help to check my house has good grounding or not hmm.gif (I don't think I can install it myself, you are good and able to fix it yourself thumbsup.gif )

Btw, I snapped a picture when my contract installing the ground rob in front of the garden, the copper rod was about 10 feet long, with diameter of 1.0 - 1.5 cm.

This post has been edited by clickNsnap: May 25 2016, 09:02 PM


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Jason
post May 26 2016, 09:07 PM

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Seems many experts here, maybe I can get some insight from you guys.

My terrace house is ~30 years old, and it always trip at the slightest lightning strikes. Even when my neighbour right next door don't trip. How do I reduce this?

The house got this installed, and as you can see its very old, I assume its an ELCB. Would upgrading this to a RCCB help? Or would it become more sensitive over time (deteriorating components inside).

user posted image
Richard
post May 27 2016, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(Jason @ May 26 2016, 09:07 PM)
Seems many experts here, maybe I can get some insight from you guys.

My terrace house is ~30 years old, and it always trip at the slightest lightning strikes. Even when my neighbour right next door don't trip. How do I reduce this?

The house got this installed, and as you can see its very old, I assume its an ELCB. Would upgrading this to a RCCB help? Or would it become more sensitive over time (deteriorating components inside).

user posted image
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First off.. Please be aware you are expected to rewire your house after 20-30 years..

The main reason is the wire pvc insulation degrades as it gets older and if pvc is exposed to heat it degrades even faster.. Old pvc becomes brittle and its insulation property changes from being an insulator to becoming partly conductive..

So once you mention 30 year old house, any wireman will automatically go hmm old wire.. many shorts.. many trips better ask him rewire his house..

So if you ask me..

I 'll say hmm.. 30 years old house, old pvc wire => bad insulation everywhere +> sure many tripping..

Nothing wrong with your elcb (even if its old, but I would change it anyway), but the newer standard is rcd (residual current device) eg. rccb or rcbo they work the same..
Jason
post May 28 2016, 12:40 AM

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Thank you for your input. Guess if its not broken, don't fix it. Cause apart from being more sensitive, nothing else is wrong.
ozak
post May 28 2016, 06:32 AM

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QUOTE(Jason @ May 28 2016, 12:40 AM)
Thank you for your input. Guess if its not broken, don't fix it. Cause apart from being more sensitive, nothing else is wrong.
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It is sometime not cause by the elcb.

The surge go through the old wire and trip it. You can try to replace the elcb to new 1.

If problem still happen, time to change the wiring.
Richard
post May 28 2016, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(Jason @ May 28 2016, 12:40 AM)
Thank you for your input. Guess if its not broken, don't fix it. Cause apart from being more sensitive, nothing else is wrong.
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oops .. if i wasn't clear I mean check your house wiring ..

It's an old house thus maybe you have old pvc wiring leaking ac currents making the elcb trip..

The elcb doesn't get more sensitive, its the old wiring that is leaking curent to earth making the elcb trip..

The elcb is probably less sensitive not more sensitive (its old it gets worse never better), you have bad wiring..

Please bro.. get it checked..
enduser
post May 28 2016, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(Jason @ May 26 2016, 09:07 PM)
Seems many experts here, maybe I can get some insight from you guys.

My terrace house is ~30 years old, and it always trip at the slightest lightning strikes. Even when my neighbour right next door don't trip. How do I reduce this?

The house got this installed, and as you can see its very old, I assume its an ELCB. Would upgrading this to a RCCB help? Or would it become more sensitive over time (deteriorating components inside).

user posted image
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Better change to rccd for better protection as mention by EC here & to comply with the regulation

http://www.st.gov.my/index.php/policies/ci...stabilizer.html
macgy
post Jun 20 2016, 11:51 AM

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Get a good Surge protection device and install b4 the RCCB / in your case B4 ELCB,
I install the American Brand more than 2 yrs ago, has never trip since, best part is their long unlimited warranty of more than 15 years, 1 to 1 exchange, i think Sine Tamer.
unfortunately, i loss the no. of contractor who install for me.
cherroy
post Jun 20 2016, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(macgy @ Jun 20 2016, 11:51 AM)
Get a good Surge protection device and install b4 the RCCB / in your case B4 ELCB,
I install the American Brand more than 2 yrs ago, has never trip since, best part is their long unlimited warranty of more than 15 years, 1 to 1 exchange, i think Sine Tamer.
unfortunately, i loss the no. of contractor who install for me.
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errr...
Surge protection and RCCB/ELCB are 2 different issue. sweat.gif

RCCB/ELCB trip is good thing to have actually (except malfunction of RCCB/ELCB, due to aging etc), which just show that it is function properly to indicate there is a problem in the wire system or electrical appliances, which prompt user to rectify it.

maxilife1
post Jun 20 2016, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(keyz @ Jan 6 2016, 01:31 PM)
Mine also installed with SPD (installed 2015-09-19). Ever since, Only one time there is quite heavy lightning strike as reported by my wife but RCCB didn't trip.

user posted image
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QUOTE(keyz @ May 14 2016, 12:12 AM)
For electrician phone you can get from local shop which supply electrical part for contractor, not shop which selling electrical appliances. They do leave the business card number.

For SPD & auto RCCB I bought from L.V Control Technologies SB. 03-80112999. Mr. Alan Chua (alan@lvcontrol.com.my)

L.V.CONTROL TECHNOLOGIES SDN.BHD
No.3, Twin Park
Jalan Subang 7/1
Taman Perindustrian Subang USJ 1
47600 Subang Jaya
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QUOTE(Richard @ May 24 2016, 09:04 PM)
The function of a surge protection device is to prevent a sudden Surge of Voltage from damaging your electronics by providing a path of least resistance to ground.. a protection against lightning strikes to overhead electrical lines and or from bad earth rods (which picks from impact  zones and carries the voltage surges to your box) .

Only if this is the case then you can install it anywhere from your kwh meter cables to your distribution box.. A common practice is to install inside the DB but its not the only way to have it installed..

You can have it installed in its own enclosure after the kwh meter at any point before the DB (thus the equipment to be protected)... connect all phase/neutral cables to the SPD and connect SPD to a known good ground. (Ground rod reading below One Ohm)..
*
all good info!

thanks rclxms.gif
Kiding
post Jun 20 2016, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 20 2016, 12:04 PM)
errr...
Surge protection and RCCB/ELCB are 2 different issue.  sweat.gif

RCCB/ELCB trip is good thing to have actually (except malfunction of RCCB/ELCB, due to aging etc), which just show that it is function properly to indicate there is a problem in the wire system or electrical appliances, which prompt user to rectify it.
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Agreed on surge protection and RCCB are protecting different scenario, RCCB protects human life from current leak, and SPD protects lightning strike damages.

But, RCCB often very sensitive to detect any current imbalance caused by lightning strike, thus, cause nuisance trip!

My ABB SPD have been installed for 1 month, there was a close lightning stroke my house nearby, my house alarm was triggered due to vibration, neighbor cars alarm was screaming! but this time, no power trip anymore ! rclxms.gif I'd say SPD really effective to reduce or eliminate power trip caused by lightning strike!
clickNsnap
post Aug 25 2016, 01:45 PM

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Just would like to update, after replaced the Max Guard RCCB to Hager RCCB for two months, no more trip when there was heavy thunder storm & lightning smile.gif
TSsocratesman
post Aug 25 2016, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(clickNsnap @ Aug 25 2016, 01:45 PM)
Just would like to update, after replaced the Max Guard RCCB to Hager RCCB for two months, no more trip when there was heavy thunder storm & lightning smile.gif
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Omg I'm the TS and forgot to update mine lol.
We Replaced RCCB with similar specs but diff brand (hager) and no more thunderstorms trip since.
clickNsnap
post Aug 26 2016, 02:14 AM

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QUOTE(socratesman @ Aug 25 2016, 09:11 PM)
Omg I'm the TS and forgot to update mine lol.
We Replaced RCCB with similar specs but diff brand (hager) and no more thunderstorms trip since.
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thumbsup.gif look like replacing the old RCCB to a new Hager RCCB is the answer!
Kiding
post Aug 26 2016, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(clickNsnap @ Aug 26 2016, 02:14 AM)
thumbsup.gif  look like replacing the old RCCB to a new Hager RCCB is the answer!
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Not really, I replaced my old RCCB with Hager RCCB, it still trip, just lesser, now I have installed the ABB SPD, so far it is already 4 months and not a single trip.
clickNsnap
post Aug 26 2016, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ Aug 26 2016, 11:37 PM)
Not really, I replaced my old RCCB with Hager RCCB, it still trip, just lesser, now I have installed the ABB SPD, so far it is already 4 months and not a single trip.
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Oh... I see, glad you've solved your issue. So far, I didn't have any trip after replaced with Hager RCCB smile.gif

Octopuz
post Jun 27 2017, 11:02 PM

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hi guys,

i'm seeking advice on my upcoming DB replacement & SPD upgrade to more reliable Hager parts (for electric trip reduction).
Read most of the posts here and but i'm still not clear if it is okay to use RCCB 40A rate?

My current setup (not sure why 63A isolator is used by the developer):
Attached Image

thanks thanks

This post has been edited by Octopuz: Jun 27 2017, 11:02 PM
Richard
post Jun 28 2017, 03:34 AM

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QUOTE(Octopuz @ Jun 27 2017, 11:02 PM)
hi guys,

i'm seeking advice on my upcoming DB replacement & SPD upgrade to more reliable Hager parts (for electric trip reduction).
Read most of the posts here and but i'm still not clear if it is okay to use RCCB 40A rate?

My current setup (not sure why 63A isolator is used by the developer):
Attached Image

thanks thanks
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with respect to the guidelines set by ST..

- you should have another 30mA RCD strictly for the 13A 3 pin sockets (to be on a 20A mcb circuit)

- the 63A isolator is ok .. its function is only to switch on and off..

Why are you thinking to install an SPD?

This post has been edited by Richard: Jun 28 2017, 09:06 AM
Octopuz
post Jun 28 2017, 09:09 AM

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QUOTE(Richard @ Jun 28 2017, 03:34 AM)
with respect to the guidelines set by ST..

- you should have another 30mA RCD strictly for the 13A 3 pin sockets (to be on a 20A mcb circuit)

- the 63A isolator is ok for 16mm2 intercabling but a 40A is preferable to use 10mm2 cables.. Its easier to install..

Why are you thinking to install an SPD?
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another or replace current 100mA 40A RCD with 30mA sensitivity.

so as for the RCD current rate, i shouldn't change it to 63A type right? what's the gain of installing higher current rate (e.g. 100A)?

SPD is for nuisance trip prevention during raining season and proctect my computer stuffs.

Correct me if my understanding is wrong.

This post has been edited by Octopuz: Jun 28 2017, 09:16 AM
Richard
post Jun 28 2017, 09:19 AM

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QUOTE(Octopuz @ Jun 28 2017, 09:09 AM)
another or replace current 100mA 40A RCD with 30mA sensitivity.

SPD is for nuisance trip prevention during raining season and proctect my computer stuffs.

Correct me if my understanding is wrong.
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Based on ST..

Protection sequence is fuse - (kwh meter) - isolator - 100mA RCD ( mcb's for light, aircon, fans etc), 10mA rcbo for water heater - 30mA RCD (mcb's for 13A sockets)

SPD is to ground surge voltages thus protecting sensitive equipment ..

This post has been edited by Richard: Jun 28 2017, 09:21 AM

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