Thanks guys

Hi Guys

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Dear Mr Azarimy, I am a graduated student from Taylor'r University and planning for part 2 next year (mostly UK). Any advice for how to choose the right school? I only manage to score a close 3.0 cgpa ( bad result ) so I not aiming the top ranking school( by the guardian and cug rank). Are those information provided can be trust? Because when I cross reference check both ranking, there are quite confusing. Which universities deliver more stable performance? I'm going to apply soon. These are the 5 school I'm applying 1) Strathclyde 2) Robert Gordon 3) Liverpool John Moores 4) Manchester 5) Plymouth. Or Glasgow School or Art. Waiting for your reply. Thank you

why not just go for the top schools directly? 3.00 is good enough to apply to any of those. really, they're not that picky on the intakes. i got 3.00 and did not have any problem getting into bartlett (UCL). belasah aje.

the important thing is, after all the money u'll be spending, can u benefit from it?

of the 5 schools u've chosen, i'd probably put strathclyde on top. the rest i treat with mixed feelings. alternatively, try for nottingham, sheffield or bath, or london schools like AA, bartlett, RCA and so on.

For all of you who's taking your part 2 abroad, do remember that once you come back you'd have to go for LAM part 2 interview, and it ain't a piece of cake.

For some strange reason, LAM doesn't have a proper guideline and requirement for the part 2 interview. All I can say is that it's really based on your luck. I just passed mine earlier this year and I thought it was a breeze. But a lot of my classmates and seniors who went for the recent part 2 interview failed (so far I counted 6 who failed), we are all from strathclyde, went through the same syllabus, graduated with masters. And I can say that some of them did better than I did in strathclyde. So how come all of us who were interviewed earlier this year passed but those who were interviewed last month failed?

As compared to my interview, they were drilled on local authority requirement and m&e design (fire escapes, plumbing and sanitary, mechanical ventilation etc) but for us who went for the earlier interview, we were not asked particularly on these items.

So the question is, what the hell is going on with LAM?? And with the historically low passing rate for part 3 this year (I heard only 6% passed) we are really concerned with our future. Are the quality of recent graduates that bad or LAM is trying to suck more money from us by making us pay more to go through the re sit process...

i currently sit in the council of accreditation for architecture education malaysia (CAAEM) under LAM, and am one of the author for the accreditation manual. in the manual, we stipulated graduate attributes for part 1 and 2, which generally outlines what u need to have in order to proceed in the exam.

just because u went through the same syllabus at the same time mean u fulfill all the exact same requirement. it highly depends on the project(s) u attempted. the LAM exam is not a preset questions that u need to answer, but instead it seeks to ensure that graduates fulfill the graduate attributes required. so during the interviews, they will focus on things they lack (or seem to lack). in which case, the examiner probably saw ur friends lacking on certain aspects and decided to drill on those. your examiner on the other hand probably did not see a big deal on those aspects of your design, and focus on something else.

it doesnt matter if ur friends scored higher during their studies, because design evaluation is almost never equal to each other. furthermore, the prospect of "strength outweighs weakness" philosophy is very acceptable and common in UK education. meaning it's okay to lose out on certain aspect of the design if your other aspects are really, really strong.

and finally, i doubt LAM is failing people because they want more money. LAM is a statutory body already fully funded by the government.

as for LAM part 3 exam, yes this year is very low. but the exam question is still standard. LAM part 3 exam is about real-world situations and how you would resolve a situation/predicament based on what you know on practice, legislation, law and everything in between. young people who took the exam probably are too inexperienced to have understood or experienced all sorts of situations covered in the exam (which mere reading sometimes is not enough). and the older people probably are experienced, but do not do enough reading (because they thought they had everything covered already).

i have a colleague who've taken the exam 3 times and failed all of them. there's always something new in the question sets that he did not cover, as the papers are always set to current real world situation. so you always have to be aware of things that go on around you.

simply put, LAM and PAM already organize workshops and classes to sit for part 3. just go for them and make sure you equip yourself with everything that they need.

btw, strathclyde is accredited by LAM (so far). why did u have to sit for the exam? did u do ur part 1 elsewhere?

Thanks for the clarification. But I'm still not convinced that the requirement is properly 'enforced' by the interviewer. I can't shake off the feeling that if I had sat for the interview last month I would have surely failed like most of my peers, and they would have passed had they went for the earlier batch...

Ah that's right, I forgot. I had to sit for the exam because I did my diploma in Taylor's (they didn't have degree then) and then another 2 years in strathclyde to get my part 1. So in edwinxxxx's case, he doesn't have to go thru the exam since his part 1 from Taylor's is already accredited right?

Speaking of this, I have another query. Say, if I had continued to work in uk after I graduated and proceed to become a licensed architect in the uk, when I decide to come back and practice in Malaysia 10 years later, I would still have to go thru the part 2 exam? Is there anyway around it that would expedite my process of becoming a licensed architect in Malaysia without having to go thru this process of exam etc?

i doubt it'll make a difference. LAM's board of examiners consist of people who've been in practice for at least 10 years and have had experience with academia through out. some may be stricter, but the bottom passing requirements are the same.



as for your friend, if he has an accredited part 1 from taylor's and went through strathclyde's part 2, i'm not sure why he had to go for portfolio review. he should be able to register straight away by showing his part 2 cert.

UNLESS he's from the unaccredited batch of taylor's. which means he might be failed due to inability to comply with LAM part 1 requirement.

u still have to register through the same process. no difference. we're talking about license to practice here. it's the same if u have drivers license in malaysia, u can only use it for 6 months in the UK before they require u to sit for their own drivers license. yea i know many malaysians drive there illegally, but it's not something people should follow, right?

Regarding accreditation of overseas programmes:

LAM (Lembaga Arkitek Malaysia) have made a decision to revoke all accreditation of overseas architectural programmes.

A grace period will be given to those going abroad by 2017 before full revocation will take effect. It means as long as you enroll to a programme by 31 Dec 2017, your degree will be accredited (according to the current list).

If you've enrolled to an overseas part 1 programme this year (Sept 2014), chances are you'll graduate by summer 2017. You have to enroll to a part 2 programme that same year (probably circumventing the year out requirement, if applicable). When the 2017 enrollment window closes, you will be limited to either doing your part 2 here in Malaysia, or find a new school under the new list that will be released by LAM.

It doesn't matter if you plan to work overseas. But most financial sponsorship (loan, scholarship) still refer to JPA list, which in architecture is determined by LAM's accredited list. When there's no list to talk about, you have to find your own funding.

From now onwards, overseas schools must open their programmes to visitations by LAM in order to get their programmes accredited. Then every 5 years LAM will revisit them again if they wish to retain their accreditation status. You might think, why the heck would overseas schools want to be accredited by mere Malaysians?

Because we are one of the biggest exporters of students in the world. After 2017, no more Malaysian students will go abroad to study architecture due to accreditation limitations. Whichever school that manages to acquire LAM accreditation will now be the sole focus of outbound Malaysian students. That would mean extensive cash flow concentrating their way for at least several years.

So plan ahead, if you want to be an Architect in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Dec 8 2014, 04:19 PM

I've met so many Graduate Architects along my career who consistently failing their part 3 exam. This particular guy in his late 40s, religiously sitting the exam every year still no Ar. title.

The question is, who is LAM to guarantee one will eventually be an Ar. after he has done his studies? Putting all the skills & knowledge aside, every Ar. is representing the entire professional body as whole, every single one of them. They'll also look at the physical aspect, whether you're presentable, good communicator & etc. too.

On top that, both LAM & PAM are also responsible for the welfare of all registered members. How many active projects do we have in Malaysia & how much GA churning out by both IPTAs & IPTSs combined? What would happen if, not all of them but just 20% of them become Ar. annually? I've met so many Italian & Spanish architects working in local firm in recent years because architects is one of poorest professional in their country, the ratio of architects & general population is way too low.

Same goes to UK, during EU recession, my fellow ex colleague who went back to UK already told me. At worse period, he'd only get 2 interview invitation after 150 CVs sent! I don't think that'd brings any benefit even if you get your Ar. title in such circumstances...I'm in most part agree with what LAM is doing, to keep the pie sizable for all members.

Reality is, unless you plan to start your own firm. Being an Ar. hardly gives you any extra competitive edge until much later age of your time - promotion becoming sr. associate or president. A principle of famous 3 letters architecture practice once said, he don't need anyone that has signing power other than him & his partners. Yet, you'll still be able to run your own project, be a SO and most part of architect's scope if you can prove your capabilities. I'm didn't even complete my diploma before I join the industry but I have some of the significant high rise residential in my portfolio & currently in management level of a global design consultancy firm. Now I'm struggle to progress further, that's why I need to buckle up, get my Bsc Arch. & B.Arch done part-time, UTMSpace seems like the only option I can wish for...

This post has been edited by vincci.vince: Dec 8 2014, 07:04 PM

I was clarifying for edwinxxxx - fellow forumer who posted earlier asking which uk UNi he should apply for

Hi, me again. LOL.
So, if i go to foundations at Taylor's then when going for degree do i need to take IELTS?

i dont know. you have to inquire with taylor's.

i dont think you can compare it to getting a drivers licence, i mean if you have 10 years driving experience in malaysia, the test in uk wouldn't be too difficult for you since you've had 10 years of driving experience prior. of course there're different traffic rules and regulations, but the examiner isnt going to tell you to discard your 10 years of driving experience and drive like its your 1st time driving...

for LAM, we were told by the examiners that our working experience will not be taken into considerations and we are solely evaluated based on our academic portfolios. Now isn't it a bit ridiculous to have a 10-year experienced architect (foreign experience but still experience in design and construction nonetheless) be told that he/she failed the part 2 exam because of what he/she studied in uni 10 years ago didn't meet LAM's requirement?

i agree that if the architect has to go through the part 3 exam, and the whole logbook thing before that to familiarize himself with the local UBBL and relevant acts. but to have to present the whole academic portfolio again... its like going for a work interview and get told that you're not qualified because the employer isnt satisfied with your UPSR result, and you have to sit for UPSR again to prove your credibility. i hope i'm making sense here..

I understand that architect is a regulated profession. not sure if LAM has (if they dont, they should) a system to evaluate a person based on their experience much like the National Program of Assessment (NPrA) in Australia where they assess an individual based on their experience and skills instead of previous academic qualifications, and if they pass the assessment they are eligible to sit for the exam to become a licensed architect.

well, you're partially correct. but there are certain parts where i believe u misunderstood.

without a drivers license, ur 10 years driving experience elsewhere dont mean jack. in fact, some of the things u've learned on malaysian roads are not even applicable in the UK (or vice versa). btw, if u've tried taking UK drivers license, u'll notice the exam book is way more detailed and complex than ours, and heckuvalot harder to pass. trust me, i tried.

for LAM part 2 exam, there's no work experience to be evaluated. LAM part 1 and 2 exams only look at academic works. it's like SPM. whether u take it in form 5 or 10 years after that, the exam will focus on what u learned in school. not what u acquired during work. of course, most of the stuffs overlap anyways, but if u've worked in a firm, u'll know that in almost no instance that u would work on the project ALONE. there's always the boss, and ur subordinate (technician, draughtman etc). but for LAM part 1 and 2, they have to evaluate ur individual skills.

working experience is evaluated at part 3. but parts 1 and 2 is almost exclusively academic. dont worry, this is the international standard. LAM follows bologna accord as well as UIA (union of international architects) standard very closely.

Yes I understand about the part 1 and 2 being solely academic. But what I don't understand is why an architect with years of experience, example if I have practiced in UK for 10 years but my part 2 is not recognised in Msia, would still need to come back and sit for part 2 exam which will evaluate me based on my academic performance a decade ago instead of letting me sit for some other exam that would assess my experience and skills, and if I pass that assessment I would be able to go on and take part 3 to become a licensed architect in Msia.

Edit: I have a colleague who has more than 10 years of experience working in US and uk, and has worked a lot of years in Malaysia now but isn't an architect because she graduated with a US degree which isn't recognised by LAM. So when she decided to come back to Malaysia and practice, she couldn't be bothered to present her academic portfolio (which is probably more than 10 years ago) to LAM for part 1 and 2, hence preventing her from getting an AR.

Why isn't there an option for people to sit for part 3 without having their academic qualifications assessed, but to evaluate them based on required experience and skills ?

This post has been edited by xsaintx: Dec 10 2014, 12:26 AM

that 10 years experience doesnt count towards part 2. but it does count towards part 3 (assuming u've practiced under a certified architect in a legally registered practice in that particular country). if u think about it, it's not fair that u have 10 years experience compared to a fresh grad, coz very likely they will fail. LAM professional exam is not about who has more experience. it's about the proper qualification at the proper amount.

it's not LAM's sole practice. it's what the international architecture community have decided and agreed as the best practice.

there's the registration process, where people with accredited degrees such as u to just go to LAM and sort themselves out.

then there's the exam, where people WITHOUT accredited degrees such as ur friend to sit and pass before granted part 1 and/or 2 license.

in UTM we have many american graduates. all of which has acquired their own LAM parts 1 and 2 within 3-5 years of returning here as we instructed them on proper procedures. in UTM, u can only teach studio is u have LAM part 2 (or part 1 if u teach 1st and 2nd year). in fact, one of our professor recently took the exam, of which his degree was acquired in 1986. still pass. no problem.

tell ur colleague to sit for the exam. many have done so. it's not a big deal. but passing it opens them to a whole other world.

The professor who took the exam, he was evaluated based on his academic performance in 1986?